ok you are right in this.

And in Romans 7, the context is not about our sins stopping us from obeying the law but

The Law was given to let us know we cannot come to God through it.

The More we try , the more we will fail.

It was designed to bring us to the end of ourselves.

That is why in verse 10, it says:

I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death.

It's a guaranteed way to fail us, so that we look away from the self effort (Law) and look to Christ for (Salvation) through Grace and Faith, that way no one may boast and the Son of God is glorified instead of us.

I have to warn you though, I want to say something that many may not agree.

In today's context, many Church are emphasizing repentance and obedience to God's commandment rather than looking towards God's grace.
That is hindering the believers spiritual growth.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jun 24 2014, 03:07 PM

eh do you guys ever wonder if jesus reclined while eating or sat eating

kinda curious on that

Haha ... kinda of a tradition that time

I think when the verse like this:

Matthew 26:20 "When evening came, Jesus was reclining at table ..."

I guess we can assume he reclined.

i know but some newer bible translation convert it to sat/sit

haha

i alwiz wonder how to recline and makan i only can do it at korean bbq restaurant where u need to sit inside some raised flooring hahaha then i tried reclining while makan

Even today I think some still do.

Can experience it in Jerusalem Tourism.

Actually I beg to differ. For Romans 7, it clearly states that Our flesh(sinful self)
14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

Obviously stating that it is the sinful self that prevents one from following the law.

And continues with Romans 8 where by it's stated Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.


Actually grace is too overemphasized in today's context. In the past, homosexuality would normally warrant a death sentence. Right now, some churches are even willing to embrace it. A Christian who is in the spirit should be able to willingly follow the law because the law is good if you look at Romans 7 again and Christians should love what is good

sin afforded by the law. (Romans 7:8)


That is the context.

Without the Law, Sin is dead.

Read Romans 5:13.

my church one cancelled not enuff people going

oh well next year ..!

Well, obviously if there is no law, sin is dead because without the law, the sinful self cannot be displayed.

8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead.

Look at the full context.
It is because of sinful desires that cause man to break the law.

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”[a] 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

Actually if you read this in context, law is supposed to be good but then it condemns as well due to man's sinful nature.

So basically if you are reading in this context, what it says is that you should not try to overcome sin by your own effort(flesh) but through the holy spirit.

3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

If you are coveting, you are still sinning. If you remain in the flesh, you cannot get rid of the temptation to covet but if you are in spirit, you should be able to overcome.

Your assumption is that law is something that is bad is a wrong assumption to begin with. Correct me if i am wrong. Because you associate law with self effort. Law is not self effort. It is the rules that God has set and because man hates God(sin), he does not follow the rules.

Even the passage says explictly that the law is holy and the commandments are holy. So how can you associate something holy with something that is unholy(self effort)

I know where you are coming from. But then if a person continues sinning, it is very likely that the Grace of God isn't in him. I mean let's look it from a logical perspective. What is the difference between a Christians who continues with his sin and a non Christian.

This post has been edited by sylar111: Jun 24 2014, 04:24 PM

Not something bad, The Law of God is needed but it is something that will stop you from getting closer to God because every time you sin, the Law causes a distance between you and God.

If the Law is what God wanted to institute for Man, Christ need not come. Point No 1.

If you say that the Law has nothing to do with Self Effort, then why Christ came to set us free from the Law?

Try and understand from that perspective. (Galatians 4:5)

We are obviously under grace and not law but then because we are under grace, we are better equipped now to overcome sin and this is demonstrated by an observation of the law. The difference between a non christian and a christian is that a christian is no longer slave to the flesh and has the holy spirit in him.

Romans provided a reason as to why Man go against law. It is because of their sinful nature(flesh). Now if we are under grace and no longer under the flesh, we should be better equipped to handle sin which is indicated by our works(law) refer to James.

The main focus is obviously on grace but how is grace demonstrated? Obviously a person under grace would be less prone to sinning and thus would be more able to follow the law.

Actually even Christ Himself said that he did not come to abolish the Law but to Fulfil it.

If you sin even under grace, the distance between you and God will increase anyway.

Of course as Christian, we have a better revelation of what the law entails. Jesus even sum up the law as love your neighbour and love God.

Jesus also said that if you love Him you will follow his commandments.

I just do not understand why the need to undermine law because law is based on the truth and as Christians, we should love the truth.

We are better equipped to overcome Sin? If we are able to do that, Pointless for Christ to die. Since when we can make ourselves righteous?

The only one who is able to fulfil the law and overcame sin is Christ Jesus. Him and Him Alone. We have no part.

When we put our Faith in Him, God impart righteousness to us. This is the New Covenant. Righteousness through Faith.

If after conversion, When Christ cleansed us of all unrighteousness and we still need to carry on our Salvation which depend very much on our actions, that means Christ Jesus sacrifice at the cross is not eternal neither it is finished. And the word Once and for all is not true. (Hebrews 10:10, Romans 6:10)

This is the common misunderstanding in Christian circle.

They say they're under Grace and yet needs to work on obedience to the Law, contradicting Romans 11:6.

If you want to love the Truth, look to Christ instead of the Law, He is the way, the TRUTH and the Life.

And What is the essence of Christ? He is Grace. And Truth is on the same side with Grace, not the Law. (John 1:17)

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jun 24 2014, 08:09 PM

Well, I never ever indicated that we have to carry our salvation.

I never ever say that there is a need to observe the law in order to get saved.

Well, I think the common misunderstanding right now is that you can remain in sin and NOT WORRY about your salvation just because you say the sinner's prayer.

I guess a person does not need to repent in order to be saved.

I guess Jesus words whereby if you love him, obey his commandments means nothing to you.

That is why we are in perilous times.

Anyway
Galatians 5:19-23
Now bthe works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, cdivisions, 21 envy,4 drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that dthose who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But ethe fruit of the Spirit is flove, joy, peace, patience, gkindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 hgentleness, iself-control; jagainst such things there is no law.

You can interpret the above verses anyhow you wish.

Romans 6 talks about the importance of not being in sin and OVERCOMING IT in Christ.

I guess you will overlook this as usual

This post has been edited by sylar111: Jun 24 2014, 08:46 PM

If I have to worry about my Salvation, that means Jesus is not the one who saved me, I saved myself.

Sin is Sin. It's wrong. But We must understand How we are saved from God's perspective, not our own understanding.

The problem, is we tend to look at ourselves rather than look to Christ as the Author and Finisher of our Faith, we are familiar with this verse but seldom
accept it as it is. We tend to look at ourselves as the author and finisher of our Faith.

Look I don't want really want to continue this, if you're not willing to hear me out.

Repentance and Living the New Life doesn't come through the Law of the OT. It comes through change of mind by the Spirit. Not our obedience.

First of all, I never ever hinted that our salvation is a work based one. So stop it please. I do not want to repeat myself again.

I really do not know why you are even talking about the law of the OT. There is nowhere whereby I ever hinted that strict adherence to the law of the OT is necessary. In fact, many times, I have already hinted that we have a better revelation of the commandments and I think all of us should be mature enough to understand what I mean when I am talking about the commandments of Christ.

I have always hinted that the reason why we follow the commandment of Christ is because we are in Christ and so we would naturally follow his commandments. I do not see how you can come to the idea that I was hinting that we are using our own strength when I was actually claiming that this is a natural process.

Based on what you have said so far, I think you would have no problem accepting that an unrepentant homosexual is actually saved just because he claims alliance to Christ.

The definition of repentance is basically an admittance that you were once in a sinful state and that you do not want to remain in this state.

Just 1 question. And it's related to that unrepentant Homosexual.

Are you Righteous because you obey or

Are you Righteous because you believe?


edit: continue tomorrow..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jun 24 2014, 10:13 PM

So it is possible to be an unrepentant Homosexual and a believer at the same time.

Ok.

what will do in heaven later? I heard many Christians are afraid to die because they think in heaven just praise and sing boring not like enjoyful the world. is it true?

Cannot be imagined on Earth, sure won't be bored though.

I am sure real life minecraft will be included in it.