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> Military Thread V11, #Condolences9MMRO :(

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LTZ
post Mar 17 2014, 08:15 PM

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QUOTE(atreyuangel @ Mar 17 2014, 02:15 PM)
ULK kat kill house
if you know what I mean
vera only give passive reading
not sure abouts its doctrine
do not have any chances yet
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Tak rehearse kt 777 ke??
atreyuangel
post Mar 17 2014, 08:24 PM

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QUOTE(HuorEarfalas @ Mar 17 2014, 06:30 PM)
if it was an UFO, why did the Air Force not scramble their jets for visual confirmation?

the military shouldnt take their suspicious off and call it a glitch... the authorities must put national security above budget... there's no excuse about it

my main question is this: Did RMAF scramble their jets upon discovering a UFO over national airspace? if they did, did they manage to make contact with the UFO? if they didn't, why didn't they? and how do we confirm whether they did?
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Like I have posted before, civilian radar signature reading (in this case 777) falls to DCA
UFO, like their name is "unidentified"!

QUOTE(LTZ @ Mar 17 2014, 08:15 PM)
Tak rehearse kt 777 ke??
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Macam2 ada kat PULPAK tu bro tongue.gif
by request mesti ada dah 9M-MRx at their disposal!
pikachu01
post Mar 17 2014, 08:27 PM

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QUOTE(atreyuangel @ Mar 17 2014, 08:24 PM)
Like I have posted before, civilian radar signature reading (in this case 777) falls to DCA
UFO, like their name is "unidentified"!
Macam2 ada kat PULPAK tu bro  tongue.gif
by request mesti ada dah 9M-MRx at their disposal!
*
Did they call the DCA to identify the aircraft?

Did they even challenge the plane? An aircraft without a transponder could be flying blind or having severe malfunctions. Was that even taken into account?
atreyuangel
post Mar 17 2014, 08:29 PM

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QUOTE(pikachu01 @ Mar 17 2014, 08:27 PM)
Did they call the DCA to identify the aircraft?

Did they even challenge the plane? An aircraft without a transponder could be flying blind or having severe malfunctions. Was that even taken into account?
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sorry bro, I can't answer that for you smile.gif
but seriously the DCA/ATM SOP should be review and changed

pikachu01
post Mar 17 2014, 08:30 PM

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QUOTE(atreyuangel @ Mar 17 2014, 08:29 PM)
sorry bro, I can't answer that for you  smile.gif
but seriously the DCA/ATM SOP should be review and changed
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I feel that they owe it to the families of the victims to answer this properly. If the plane was detected there and then, it could be a difference between life and death.
atreyuangel
post Mar 17 2014, 08:33 PM

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QUOTE(pikachu01 @ Mar 17 2014, 08:30 PM)
I feel that they owe it to the families of the victims to answer this properly. If the plane was detected there and then, it could be a difference between life and death.
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I agree with you, but I am under oath here

kerolzarmyfanboy
post Mar 17 2014, 08:43 PM

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i'm not even mad, this is funny laugh.gif laugh.gif

user posted image
KYPMbangi
post Mar 17 2014, 08:51 PM

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QUOTE(pikachu01 @ Mar 17 2014, 08:27 PM)
Did they call the DCA to identify the aircraft?

Did they even challenge the plane? An aircraft without a transponder could be flying blind or having severe malfunctions. Was that even taken into account?
*
No, it should be the DCA calls the RMAF to identify the plane or track it where it was last seen on ATC radar
But in this case the ATC assume first the plane had crashed, and then the SAR was activated without considering the probability of hijack or takeover

For the million dollar question, military radar don't monitor commercial aircraft, and the blip they see in the radar is no different from any other commercial flight flying on that time

That's DCA's job as they have both approved route and flight plan

Thats why, DCA and military must link their data (route, flight plan and transponder data) in the future and better co-operation also
But this also would take a huge undertaking as new infrastructure (both mobile and static radar) to be done, and a centralized air defence command (NORAD equivalent) would certainly be built
pikachu01
post Mar 17 2014, 09:11 PM

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QUOTE(KYPMbangi @ Mar 17 2014, 08:51 PM)
No, it should be the DCA calls the RMAF to identify the plane or track it where it was last seen on ATC radar
But in this case the ATC assume first the plane had crashed, and then the SAR was activated without considering the probability of hijack or takeover

For the million dollar question, military radar don't monitor commercial aircraft, and the blip they see in the radar is no different from any other commercial flight flying on that time

That's DCA's job as they have both approved route and flight plan

Thats why, DCA and military must link their data (route, flight plan and transponder data) in the future and better co-operation also
But this also would take a huge undertaking as new infrastructure (both mobile and static radar) to be done, and a centralized air defence command (NORAD equivalent) would certainly be built
*
I mean, doesn't the military track unidentified aircraft? After 9/11, even commercial aircrafts can become a weapon of mass destruction. The military uses IFF right? If there is a plane that doesn't have a transponder, and doesn't display IFF, isn't that a cause of concern?
HuorEarfalas
post Mar 17 2014, 09:21 PM

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QUOTE(atreyuangel @ Mar 17 2014, 09:24 PM)
Like I have posted before, civilian radar signature reading (in this case 777) falls to DCA
UFO, like their name is "unidentified"!
Macam2 ada kat PULPAK tu bro  tongue.gif
by request mesti ada dah 9M-MRx at their disposal!
*
i don't care about MH370... i'm more concern if RMAF had tried to get visual confirmation when they saw a UFO on their radar...
HuorEarfalas
post Mar 17 2014, 09:27 PM

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QUOTE(KYPMbangi @ Mar 17 2014, 09:51 PM)
No, it should be the DCA calls the RMAF to identify the plane or track it where it was last seen on ATC radar
But in this case the ATC assume first the plane had crashed, and then the SAR was activated without considering the probability of hijack or takeover

For the million dollar question, military radar don't monitor commercial aircraft, and the blip they see in the radar is no different from any other commercial flight flying on that time

That's DCA's job as they have both approved route and flight plan

Thats why, DCA and military must link their data (route, flight plan and transponder data) in the future and better co-operation also
But this also would take a huge undertaking as new infrastructure (both mobile and static radar) to be done, and a centralized air defence command (NORAD equivalent) would certainly be built
*
by reading ur post, this is what i understand:

1. The military radar does not display flight numbers nor flight details like they do on an ATC screen.

2. The MH370 blip the military saw on their radar screen appeared like any other normal flights, so they wouldn't have known any abnormalies.

Correct?

So my next question is, how does military know if the blip they see on their screens is a threat?
KYPMbangi
post Mar 17 2014, 09:32 PM

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QUOTE(pikachu01 @ Mar 17 2014, 09:11 PM)
I mean, doesn't the military track unidentified aircraft? After 9/11, even commercial aircrafts can become a weapon of mass destruction. The military uses IFF right? If there is a plane that doesn't have a transponder, and doesn't display IFF, isn't that a cause of concern?
*
All modern commercial aircraft is equipped with IFF (Mode III)
That's how our military radar sees it, but it doesnt tell you anything more than that (other than it's a commercial flight)

After 9/11 the most proactive approach they have done is to embed an air marshall on american flights,
Thats probably more effective than having more radar to watch the planes
keown83
post Mar 17 2014, 09:51 PM

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QUOTE(nikita zuleica @ Mar 16 2014, 11:17 PM)
Malaysia’s military failed in their duty says expert

.
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they shud tell the same to the US airforce that failed in their duty to detect & reacted swiftly towards 2 commercial planes that hit WTC
KYPMbangi
post Mar 17 2014, 09:54 PM

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QUOTE(HuorEarfalas @ Mar 17 2014, 09:27 PM)
by reading ur post, this is what i understand:

1. The military radar does not display flight numbers nor flight details like they do on an ATC screen.

2. The MH370 blip the military saw on their radar screen appeared like any other normal flights, so they wouldn't have known any abnormalies.

Correct?

So my next question is, how does military know if the blip they see on their screens is a threat?
*
Flying silent without any identification
Not transmitting IFF even when interrogated, or recognized as foe
Approaching a restricted no-fly-zone or breaching minimum safe altitude (MSA) area
Flight pattern and radar return close to known fighter aircraft

There's lots more, but that is under MKN to determine
pikachu01
post Mar 17 2014, 09:57 PM

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QUOTE(KYPMbangi @ Mar 17 2014, 09:32 PM)
All modern commercial aircraft is equipped with IFF (Mode III)
That's how our military radar sees it, but it doesnt tell you anything more than that (other than it's a commercial flight)

After 9/11 the most proactive approach they have done is to embed an air marshall on american flights,
Thats probably more effective than having more radar to watch the planes
*
I thought IFF is turned off when transponders are turned off right?
KYPMbangi
post Mar 17 2014, 10:13 PM

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QUOTE(pikachu01 @ Mar 17 2014, 09:57 PM)
I thought IFF is turned off when transponders are turned off right?
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True, you can turn off the transponder from transmitting anything
but IFF system works by replying the radar return (interrogation)

Transponder data is transmitted
IFF data is not transmitted, instead it's interrogated by radar system
pikachu01
post Mar 17 2014, 10:16 PM

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QUOTE(KYPMbangi @ Mar 17 2014, 10:13 PM)
True, you can turn off the transponder from transmitting anything
but IFF system works by replying the radar return (interrogation)

Transponder data is transmitted
IFF data is not transmitted, instead it's interrogated by radar system
*
However, in this case transponder is inactive and IFF fails to respond right?
aztechx
post Mar 17 2014, 10:18 PM

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QUOTE(keown83 @ Mar 17 2014, 09:51 PM)
they shud tell the same to the US airforce that failed in their duty to detect & reacted swiftly towards 2 commercial planes that hit WTC
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And i thought id never see posts like this anymore in kopitiam with everyone seeming to agree with everything the white people say..

Im particularly wondering why Are the western media so unusually interested
KYPMbangi
post Mar 17 2014, 10:20 PM

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QUOTE(pikachu01 @ Mar 17 2014, 10:16 PM)
However, in this case transponder is inactive and IFF fails to respond right?
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The military radar positively identified the commercial plane, so I guess the IFF still works
pikachu01
post Mar 17 2014, 10:55 PM

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QUOTE(KYPMbangi @ Mar 17 2014, 10:20 PM)
The military radar positively identified the commercial plane, so I guess the IFF still works
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According to some posters, the military radar had ATR databases (probably a database of how a reflected radar signal can be translated to aircraft size/shape) that can positively identify the type of aircraft.

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