If I read your statement correctly (pardon me if I'm wrong), the ratings (1st class, 2nd Higher, 2nd Lower, 3rd Class and Pass) are the same in every department (IT, Engineering, Law, Business etc). I'm not sure about Australia's education or any other part of the world's education on this matter. Correct me if I'm wrong

Went out few hours, this post become so long already. Lazy to read.

As for my friend who I posted here, well, he knows his stuff and he is confident. Sometimes people only need an opportunity to prove themselves. If he met a pariah boss thats only there to exploit him, his nasib la.

But when he was desperate, he used his ace (though some of u think it's silly), but well it worked. Now he's team leader in Seremban and recently bought a new house in Shah Alam somemore... Not bad eh?

in a world with so much graduates with degrees now, what is a simple diploma, my fren...2 exp with 3rd class diploma against a 1st class honours degree student with a cgpa of 3.75 with no exp? sorry dude...i will have to choose the latter one...with a good head and willingness to learn, im sure the 1st class honours student will try to learn as much as possible...and ur statement to say that all fresh grads do not have confidence, pls do not generalize lar...

why not give fresh grads a chance (esp those with damn good grades)...if no1 give chance to them, then how to get exp la...remember the old saying, catch 22, u cant job without exp BUT u cant get exp without job...remember that my fren...

as for the second part, my fren, yes...i did all my studies in a local public university in msia...all rite after stpm...all under ptptn...i have a part time job...to pay for my expenses inclu cellphone bills, books etc...a full 3 years IT course in public uni will cost around rm900 per semester, my fren...and i am going to pay off my ptptpn soon...

so, dude...not everyone in this world is a 2 Small Joe...there is still ppl who earn it the hard way...

best i heard all day...hahahaa...to those who think that just having a degree is enuf, pls think again...there are like tons of ppl with degrees out there now...not one having to find a decent job...

and pls do not get me started with ppl who are satisfied with a diploma only...

i will speak in a very straight foward way...u reap what u sow...easy...every 1st class success is associated with intense studying and revision...does anyone here thinks that just anyone can get a 1st class without studying? yes, if ur name is stephen hawking!

and to say that each class deserved the same opportunity is simply nuts...if treated so, then why does ppl need to strive for 1st class for???the 1st class ppl is the one that separated the best from the rest...

yes, its a dog-eat-dog world out there...too bad if u dont want to live in there ...and to one of the forumer's question: what cgpa is high? easy...1st class honours, 3.75 and above...

and u know what is funny? it is always those who did badly such as 3rd class honours who complain and grumble about life at the bottom...did i hear any 1st class honours graduates complaining? of course not...

that my frens, is you reap what you sow...remember that...

As a manager, you hire people that can do their job. In this case, the person has 2 years experience of doing the kind of job that you want. He is proven. Why do I want to take chances on someone else which might be book smart but totally unsuitable for IT line of work??

So, between people that have potential versus people that have actual experience. You always go for people that have experience.

Catch 22 only existed for people that is not resourceful enough. For IT related type of works, a person can gain substantial experience by doing stuff beyond the normal coursework if the person is motivated enough.

Dreamer

P.S.: If you actually have first class honour from our local public university, our English standard in Malaysia must have gone a lot worse than I believe.


This post has been edited by dreamer101: Jun 17 2006, 04:24 AM

I would have told them off in the face. Dont waste my time too. It's not a matter of you want their job, you have to respect them but its mutual. Afterall, they dont own the damn thing, they work there too.

Just because your results dont look so bright does not give them the right to step all over you. Best thing you can do is protect yourself and give it to them straight, honest, direct but not harsh.

FYI, my university only takes 7 final subjects to classify the degree. Failing one double module subject already can pull down my classification greatly.

As I understood from your statement, you mean people with good results are wiling to work with boring stuff. I have one question here. Why they're so many students who can't speak fluent english? Isn't it because they think english is boring or too difficult to learn? May be you can answer that for me.

As I told you in the previous post. Working is different from studying. What you learn from working is useful for your job but not necessary from your studies. Even if parts of the working process are boring but still I'm more motivated to learn them because I know I will need to use them. However, when it comes to studying, you're only memorizing things that you might not be even using or applying them in the future.

How can you tell a person has good work ethic where he has no working experience before? People who has received a first class but never work before can you confirm to say that he/she has a very good working ethic? Compared to me who has been worked in a MNC before during my semester break and was awarded a testimonial saying that I'm a good-natured and hardworking employee.

Once again you think that studying reflects working attidude but why those earning the most money are not the ones who study the hardest in schools or colleges?

don't be sad thread starter......
.
I had a friend who has lost his honours meaning that he's wrost then 3rd class but he still able to get a good job and well paid......

Degree is nothing but a paper that only proof how well..... you perform in your years at the university or college...... but it haven't proof the truth ability of yourself yet......

All those fate and karma still lay in your own hand, which can be alter by yourself alone.........

As far as I know, Asia Pacific Institute Information Technology (UCTI) is accredited by Staffordshire University following UK standards. When our results subjected to external moderation (moderators from UK), our results always get downgraded!! O_O; Sigh

1) "Student cannot speak fluent English"

We have university with low standard. Those people should not be allow to be graduated to begin with.


2) "Working is different from studying and etc..."

Do you know why I think you have BAD work ethic?? It is actually very simple. You are arguing with me as opposed to take responsibility and face the fact that you had messed up. That is a clear sign of the lack of maturity.

Being an adult means you takes responsibility of everything you had done: correctly or not. Whining is not acceptable.

3) "those earning the most money are not the one study the hardest"

Yes. You are correct. But, we are talking about the "hardest" here. You are not even at the level of studying hard here as you have admitted yourself.

You deserved your result. So, just leave it as it is.

Dreamer

Different people, different views. We are here to learn from one another, not start a war.

If your results are poor, like a 3rd Class Degree, then you make it up with hardwork. No doubt, many fool around during their college days but there are really some of those unfortunate ones.

You reap what you sow is true. Just be prepared for things. Who knows you might get lucky. From what you read from Page 1 - 4, so many 3rd Class or General Degree holders still manage to secure a job.

Work is not all about educational achievements. It's more than that, dealing with people, social skills, hardwork, how you get along with others, and in my humble opinion - the most important two points are:
1. Problem solving skills
2. Ability to multi-task

Cannot study does not mean cannot work. Likewise, can study does not mean can work.

I know a girl who is the top student of her year throughout her life. Best of the best results, scholarships, etc. Praises from church, gives tuition, people worship her educational achievements. But bad point is she cant seem to get along with people at work no matter where she went.

There are many kinds of people, you are one type, he is another. There are many kinds of situation, he was in one that you may not ever be in. You may experience a situation in an interview where he may not understand even if he imagined it. Sometimes interview depends on luck too. Do not let poor results pull you down. Make it up to yourself by dedicating more time and effort into your work. Afterall, you will be walking this path call WORK for the next 30 or so years of your life, till you retire and wait for death to take you.

What more is there for you to look forward to if it's not work? People can sweep the floor to make a living. Since you have a 3rd Class, I guess you shouldnt be complaining about starting low. Chinese proverb "Start your way from the bottom and climb your way up."

It's never an easy task. Life was never a bed of roses. All you have to do is choose your allegiance carefully, make alliances and enemies, climb, fight, push, draw, whatever. Just try your best, no regrets is all you ever need.

This is the only advice I can give you all. I started out with it too. "It's time for you to pick up everything you've missed." All that you dont know, all that you wanted to do - the time is now.


Thank you for reading.

AFAIK, usually i see MNC and bank hiring IT and management degree will mention about "2nd class upper and above", let them get their bookworms, no matter. But engineering degree i rarely see them mentioning about what class they want, of course you score higher you get bigger change, but what i understand is engineering field more focus on what you know.

Correct me if im wrong!

This post has been edited by rexis: Jun 17 2006, 09:44 AM

hahahaha...what is wrong with being book smart anyway? last i recall, from a reality show lately, a book smart won the competition, not the street smart...being smart is easier to be experienced rather than a person who has all street smarts but cant learn from past mistakes...

based on what u are saying, when do u actually will hire a fresh grad? Never? hahhahahaa...if everyone thinks like you, i dont think any fresh grad will get job...hahahahaha...

p/s: if my english is that bad, i assume u think that ur's is great? haahhahahaa...that, my dear friend, is falsely wrong...hahahaa...this is a moderated forum, my fren...dont go shakespearen on me to show ur street cred...

dont go around dismissing ppl's cred...u ask me a question in the previous posts and i answer it...if u have the guts, why not go ahead and tell me and everyone else here what YOU have...come on...back it up...

wanna make change, start with the person in the mirror...not everyone else...

This post has been edited by brokenomerta: Jun 17 2006, 12:06 PM

cool down man

erm, my mistake i think i didnt state clearly...
I mean if comparing it in terms of value when we're finding job out there...

I mean, does a Engineering degree comparing to a IT degree for example, both of the same class, have the same value... thats what i'm asking.

if anyone can give some opinion, thanks

nothing i hate worse than self glorifying ******* in the engineering faculty of my uni who thinks they're very much smarter than the people in IT faculty. here's what: GET LOST.

Am I sound too harsh? While posting in the serious sub-forums do I have to get this piece of bullcrap so in end of the day everyone knows you are an asscracka ?

My friend received a pass degree in BEng from Sheffield University, UK. He spent 3 years studying there. Oh yeah, he got 9A1 in SPM back in 1999. Did he received piece of shite compared to you ?

FYI I graduated from Staffordshire University, UK. Yeah, I spent some years in Stafford town knowing all the people in the Stafford Guildhall too. Although this uni. is not listed under Top 15 university in the UK but it has same standard of degree awarding like other uni. We also have external examiners from other universities. I don't know about APIIT or UCTI though, but from your reply the local standards are quite low

This post has been edited by igor_is300: Jun 17 2006, 02:39 PM

For your (or everyone else for that matter) information, i do agree that local universities do have a low standard, heck, i graduated from one of the local universites, but the standards from the university does not hold on to me. I've set my own standards and targets. Am i a low quality graduate?As far as i am concern, what i am working as now, i think i am not. Can i afford to study oversea?I can't but my parents can and they would if i wanted.

Bottom line is, doesnt matter where you study, uni creds, grades is just an assisting paper (ok, so it helps, quite alot) but what counts is your ability to convey the message that you are the one.

To the topic, i partially agree that that 3rd class = no value BUT depends on what course. IT, Engineering and like wise, not necessary but when it comes to detail subjects like geology, reseach work intense subjects/positions which require precise detailing and what not, it is very important what class you got.

cheers

Actually when it comes to Research & Development (R&D) position , the employer will prefer 1st class academic results. We all know that, I think we should LOL. It doesn't mean when you got 3rd class or pass degree you cannot work right ? The bottomline is try to find a job that suit yourself eg: academic results, personality and etc. Not all jobs require 1st class degree holder

couldnt agree more with what u say...setting one own's standard is what separated the men from the boys...and errr..woman from the girls as well? hahahaa..

1st class in any universities, regardless where, will only get to the door...what do u do from there is basically on your own...that means 1st class honours will get u an interview...how do u perform from there on, its entirely up to u...