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 The SSD Thread V4, Solid State Drive

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Quazacolt
post Nov 6 2014, 04:13 PM

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QUOTE(horns @ Nov 5 2014, 10:13 PM)
ok story time biggrin.gif

technically, to get rid of bottlenecks by sata's  bandwidth limitation, pci-e is used to provide more bandwidth to ssd so that it can run much faster in a system. commercially, most people thought pci-e 2.0 x2 is good enough for the market. (so that they can earn more money before releasing more powerful versions, i.e. from pci-e 2.0 x2 to 2.0 x4, then 3.0 x2, finally 3.0 x4. you know the drill)

however, two companies thought otherwise.

the first one was samsung. instead of following the norm, they released xp941, a pci-e 2.0 x4 m.2 ssd to oem in year 2013 (that's the first pci-e consumer-centric ssd). with that move samsung was forcing everyone to change their game plans, including totally skipped pci-e x2 to be at least competitive. initially there were not much enthusiasm among these oem. until the second company reacted. a few months ago, asrock put an ultra m.2 slot (1x pci-e 3.0 x4) in their product lineup, the extreme series. back then, those were the only mobo that provides such a m.2 slot. on top of that, despite this premium feature, they sold them cheap. that move made asrock to suddenly become one of the best recognized mobo manufacturers almost everywhere, and their products were recommended and awarded in macam-macam best awards.

all the above happened in a year. see? these companies really can make a difference if they want to.

now the market is populated with compatible slots. (desktop mobo's, laptops) this year samsung did it again to complete the whole story. this time they announced sm951, the first consumer-centric pci-e 3.0 x4 nvme ssd. (sm953 is for enterprise) maybe we can get hold some of these beasty ssd sometimes next year biggrin.gif

edit: this was one of the reasons why i got a lot of samsung drives. (more than 10 hehe) i am not their affiliate, or fan boy, or whatever you wanna call it. i just wanna support companies like this to make a difference in the development of better ssd's. (only ssd. the rest i am not that keen hehehe)
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this. basically.

pretty much why i went with TWO 840EVOS too XD

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Nov 6 2014, 04:14 PM
wildwestgoh
post Nov 6 2014, 04:50 PM

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QUOTE(snnchw88 @ Nov 6 2014, 03:21 PM)
Hi, Chin,

Yea. I know that. I wondering if it will affect the boot up speed as well? just for my knowledge if it is so  ~
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Erm, if your posted link is your actual mainboard, it's unfortunately you don't have any SATA3 (6Gbps) port.
SATA2 won't have much difference with your boot time, SSD is always faster than HDD.
The only difference is only the max speed, which is the sequential read/write speed which is advertise by every vendor.
Your best bet is the 4K read/write, that's the most important, it determines your daily usage speed, without compression. wink.gif

According to the link, Intel only provide 6x ports, blue color, connect to that for optimum performance, the black one is JMicron, may slow.
If you do can install your Windows fresh into the SSD and still having BSOD, best is to unplug all other connected devices, like other HDDs, other USB devices other than your necessity, try with the most basic hardware and report here again.
If all fail... erm... maybe try to access and format your SSD using your installed OS on your HDD, it could be just a bad SSD.
And do benchmark from there... hmm.gif Well, rare case, need more white ratz experiments testing... sweat.gif
snnchw88
post Nov 6 2014, 05:03 PM

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QUOTE(wildwestgoh @ Nov 6 2014, 04:50 PM)
Erm, if your posted link is your actual mainboard, it's unfortunately you don't have any SATA3 (6Gbps) port.
SATA2 won't have much difference with your boot time, SSD is always faster than HDD.
The only difference is only the max speed, which is the sequential read/write speed which is advertise by every vendor.
Your best bet is the 4K read/write, that's the most important, it determines your daily usage speed, without compression. wink.gif

According to the link, Intel only provide 6x ports, blue color, connect to that for optimum performance, the black one is JMicron, may slow.
If you do can install your Windows fresh into the SSD and still having BSOD, best is to unplug all other connected devices, like other HDDs, other USB devices other than your necessity, try with the most basic hardware and report here again.
If all fail... erm... maybe try to access and format your SSD using your installed OS on your HDD, it could be just a bad SSD.
And do benchmark from there...  hmm.gif Well, rare case, need more white ratz experiments testing... sweat.gif
*
Hi, bro,

Thanks for your clear explanation abt my case here.

Well, I will get back to you guys with my bios setup. Btw, i can fresh installed OS in the SSD, but it's boot time same like normal HDD. The sata II only affect the write/read speed for the file exploring in the SSD,no?

Appreciate so much ~
wildwestgoh
post Nov 6 2014, 05:42 PM

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QUOTE(snnchw88 @ Nov 6 2014, 05:03 PM)
Hi, bro,

Thanks for your clear explanation abt my case here.

Well, I will get back to you guys with my bios setup. Btw, i can fresh installed OS in the SSD, but it's boot time same like normal HDD. The sata II only affect the write/read speed for the file exploring in the SSD,no?

Appreciate so much ~
*
Erm, is it successfully boot into your freshly installed Windows?
What Windows you installed? Windows 7? 8?

Please do let us know how many seconds from pressing the power button to your Desktop.
And after booting, runs some benchmark on it, and (notice it's Kingston HyperX shakehead.gif ) do post the result here. wink.gif
chinkw1
post Nov 6 2014, 06:59 PM

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ONe question:

There are a few PCIE slots in our mobo.

Graphic Card will occupy one PCIE slot.

There remain 2 more empty PCIE slots. Does it make a difference which PCIE slots we install the PCIE SSD ??
targon
post Nov 6 2014, 09:38 PM

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QUOTE(nvidia134 @ Nov 6 2014, 12:10 PM)
Bro Horns!!

Any other SSD you can recommend other than Intel 730? Seems like this SSD no instock need orer 2-3 weeks from hikari85

Thx
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there might b stock at viewnet. I just got 2 units of 240gb models frm them last week
targon
post Nov 6 2014, 09:41 PM

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and ohh... be prepared to pay for them...they are not cheap.
rurushu
post Nov 6 2014, 10:42 PM

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QUOTE(horns @ Nov 6 2014, 11:29 AM)
small form factor storage like this are necessary, since these days everything is going slimmer, and the trend of storage is moving towards nas/cloud. (think aio desktops)

yes for current implementations m.2 and pci-e slot share the same pci-e lanes. for normal users, i think there is no need for most of us to worry about this lane sharing thing. it's sufficient for general use. for instance, i can set up my desktop to have dual-gpu sli/cfx, and run 1x pci-e ssd at the same time, with no conflicts.
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i see... so they do share the same lanes.

yea, for normal consumers like us who rarely gone for tri or quad sli or Xfire, lane counts are less of an issue for us.

QUOTE(chinkw1 @ Nov 6 2014, 06:59 PM)
ONe question:

There are a few PCIE slots in our mobo.

Graphic Card will occupy one PCIE slot.

There remain 2 more empty PCIE slots. Does it make a difference which PCIE slots we install the PCIE SSD ??
*
i think put further is the normal practice as you dont want to disrupt the airflow to the GPU hmm.gif
horns
post Nov 6 2014, 11:20 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Nov 6 2014, 04:13 PM)
this. basically.

pretty much why i went with TWO 840EVOS too XD
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haha! i think the slow read bug of 840 evo has been fixed for good after the firmware and performance restore. (there was a newer 1.1 however it will not work if you have applied 1.0) so far everything is fine here. still i wanna do a few test in 3 weeks.

i was always curious about their response time from identifying problem to releasing proper fix when there is a problem in their products. this round it turned out to be not bad, compared to many previous cases that involved other brands (for those who owned the affected ssd's previously, they know what happened)

i have tested a number of samsung drives, from consumer to enterprise. i think they did a good job in making the ssd's despite their rapid release cycles. (apart from 840 evo, none of their retail and oem drives have issues)

QUOTE(chinkw1 @ Nov 6 2014, 06:59 PM)
ONe question:

There are a few PCIE slots in our mobo.

Graphic Card will occupy one PCIE slot.

There remain 2 more empty PCIE slots. Does it make a difference which PCIE slots we install the PCIE SSD ??
*
for this part it's better for you to check out the mobo manual. normally in the manual there are sections that explain and highlight what to or not to do with these pci-e slots.

QUOTE(rurushu @ Nov 6 2014, 10:42 PM)
i see... so they do share the same lanes.

*
right. it's better to check out the manual carefully first for potential conflicts when you plan for your new rig/upgrade.

Quazacolt
post Nov 6 2014, 11:39 PM

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QUOTE(horns @ Nov 6 2014, 11:20 PM)
haha! i think the slow read bug of 840 evo has been fixed for good after the firmware and performance restore. (there was a newer 1.1 however it will not work if you have applied 1.0) so far everything is fine here. still i wanna do a few test in 3 weeks.

i was always curious about their response time from identifying problem to releasing proper fix when there is a problem in their products. this round it turned out to be not bad, compared to many previous cases that involved other brands (for those who owned the affected ssd's previously, they know what happened)

i have tested a number of samsung drives, from consumer to enterprise. i think they did a good job in making the ssd's despite their rapid release cycles. (apart from 840 evo, none of their retail and oem drives have issues)
*
yeah that is commendable especially when they are so bold with the new technology and rapid release cycles as you said nod.gif
horns
post Nov 7 2014, 12:25 AM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Nov 6 2014, 11:39 PM)
yeah that is commendable especially when they are so bold with the new technology and rapid release cycles as you said nod.gif
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indeed.

tbh it's hard to suggest something that are the results from mass production, especially new releases that come with new technologies. all the brands that we know today suffered from hidden bugs that only time will tell in the past. crucial? they had their shares. the same goes to ocz, sandisk, plextor, intel, kingston, and samsung, to name a few. there is almost no exception.

all we can depend on is the commitments of these manufacturers to be there when we need them most. all they need to do is to identify the issues and get them fixed. everyone will be happy. unfortunately, only a few of them can handle these scenarios well.

nvidia134
post Nov 7 2014, 12:30 AM

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QUOTE(wildwestgoh @ Nov 6 2014, 01:10 PM)
I just ordered from lingloong for Intel 730 for 1 of my customer, probably on its way.
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I didn't know lingloong got sell Intel SSD. Lol.. didn't see any under his thread.
nvidia134
post Nov 7 2014, 12:32 AM

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QUOTE(horns @ Nov 6 2014, 02:28 PM)
wildwestgoh knows where to get ready stocks for you smile.gif (however i think intel 730 is pricey, no?)

i did suggest you several choices previously. (samsung 850 pro, plextor m6pro, and crucial m550) those are imo the better ones that fit your budgets as of now.
*
Haha, now under budget already. Samsung 850 Pro is out from the list due to pricing. Any goods for Crucial MX100? The SSD you recommend mostly is on MLC nand?

wildwestgoh
post Nov 7 2014, 07:01 AM

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QUOTE(nvidia134 @ Nov 7 2014, 12:30 AM)
I didn't know lingloong got sell Intel SSD. Lol.. didn't see any under his thread.
*
Yes, he's selling under his Intel thread (for every Intel products).

QUOTE(nvidia134 @ Nov 7 2014, 12:32 AM)
Haha, now under budget already. Samsung 850 Pro is out from the list due to pricing. Any goods for Crucial MX100? The SSD you recommend mostly is on MLC nand?
*
Many suggest MLC and many higher end products still using MLC is because it's a matured technology, it has been proven so with all the products released out there, 840EVO is probably one of their white ratz (sorry no offence here) for their next 860 Pro offering? Till they're mature enough, then those vendors will dive into it hard and deep.
If you don't care little differences of those performance, Intel 530 is the way to go, you won't miss those few hundred of miliseconds in everyday's task, not until you're doing IO intensive task (database testing anyone?).

p/s: You can use [quote] to minimize multi-replies in a thread, click [+quote] of the posts then click [Add reply] at the bottom. wink.gif
horns
post Nov 7 2014, 09:21 AM

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QUOTE
Haha, now under budget already. Samsung 850 Pro is out from the list due to pricing. Any goods for Crucial MX100? The SSD you recommend mostly is on MLC nand?
ok. maybe you can consider crucial mx100 512gb and plextor m6s of the same size.

yes, the drives use mlc.


QUOTE
Many suggest MLC and many higher end products still using MLC is because it's a matured technology, it has been proven so with all the products released out there, 840EVO is probably one of their white ratz (sorry no offence here) for their next 860 Pro offering? Till they're mature enough, then those vendors will dive into it hard and deep.
If you don't care little differences of those performance, Intel 530 is the way to go, you won't miss those few hundred of miliseconds in everyday's task, not until you're doing IO intensive task (database testing anyone?).

p/s: You can use [ quote ] to minimize multi-replies in a thread, click [ +quote ] of the posts then click [ Add reply ] at the bottom. wink.gif
there are two obvious differences between mlc and tlc chips, speed and endurance. these are physical characteristics of nand chips that cannot be fixed by firmware. endurance is not a problem because improper usage void your warranty anyway when you exceed their tbw. speed wise, it's not night and day difference, but it's there. so for the same amount of money, i will still always go for mlc. (do check the mlc nand type. skip those mlc with lower performance)

there is nothing wrong with tlc drives for general use. (samsung has already pushed these chips to enterprise. you can find some of them @ hikari85's sale thread) in fact, 840 evo surprisingly outperforms many mlc drives with rapid mode turned off in real world usage. (yes, 840 evo are my test drives mainly to check differences between mlc and tlc drives. believe it or not, they do have differences. however, i have found some good use cases for them)

by the way i forgot to mention that a fix to the same slow read bug in older samsung 840 non-evo is also on the way.

edit: quotes are not working?! no there was a coding bug. fixed biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by horns: Nov 7 2014, 09:26 AM
nvidia134
post Nov 7 2014, 11:58 AM

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Sorry, very seldom post in thread here.. Thanks for the info
nvidia134
post Nov 7 2014, 12:05 PM

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[quote=wildwestgoh,Nov 7 2014, 07:01 AM]
Yes, he's selling under his Intel thread (for every Intel products).
Many suggest MLC and many higher end products still using MLC is because it's a matured technology, it has been proven so with all the products released out there, 840EVO is probably one of their white ratz (sorry no offence here) for their next 860 Pro offering? Till they're mature enough, then those vendors will dive into it hard and deep.
If you don't care little differences of those performance, Intel 530 is the way to go, you won't miss those few hundred of miliseconds in everyday's task, not until you're doing IO intensive task (database testing anyone?).

p/s: You can use [quote] to minimize multi-replies in a thread, click [+quote] of the posts then click [Add reply] at the bottom. wink.gif
*


[/quote]

Thanks for the info.


[quote=horns,Nov 7 2014, 09:21 AM]
ok. maybe you can consider crucial mx100 512gb and plextor m6s of the same size.

yes, the drives use mlc.
there are two obvious differences between mlc and tlc chips, speed and endurance. these are physical characteristics of nand chips that cannot be fixed by firmware. endurance is not a problem because improper usage void your warranty anyway when you exceed their tbw. speed wise, it's not night and day difference, but it's there. so for the same amount of money, i will still always go for mlc. (do check the mlc nand type. skip those mlc with lower performance)

there is nothing wrong with tlc drives for general use. (samsung has already pushed these chips to enterprise. you can find some of them @ hikari85's sale thread) in fact, 840 evo surprisingly outperforms many mlc drives with rapid mode turned off in real world usage. (yes, 840 evo are my test drives mainly to check differences between mlc and tlc drives. believe it or not, they do have differences. however, i have found some good use cases for them)

by the way i forgot to mention that a fix to the same slow read bug in older samsung 840 non-evo is also on the way.

edit: quotes are not working?! no there was a coding bug. fixed biggrin.gif
*


[/quote]

Thanks!! Thanks. Is MX100 newer or MX550 newer? Any feedback on this? Since like it's not worth to go for Intel 730 SSD?

This post has been edited by nvidia134: Nov 7 2014, 12:06 PM
horns
post Nov 7 2014, 01:40 PM

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QUOTE(nvidia134 @ Nov 7 2014, 12:05 PM)
Thanks for the info.

Thanks!! Thanks. Is MX100 newer or MX550 newer? Any feedback on this? Since like it's not worth to go for Intel 730 SSD?
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Mx100 is newer. But m550 is the performance drive. (Although theres is not much difference between the two if the size is 512gb)

Intel drives are not as attractive as before (the old intel 520 era) when there are plenty options to choose from. The price is on the high side.
wildwestgoh
post Nov 7 2014, 01:42 PM

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QUOTE(nvidia134 @ Nov 7 2014, 12:05 PM)
Thanks for the info.
Thanks!! Thanks. Is MX100 newer or MX550 newer? Any feedback on this? Since like it's not worth to go for Intel 730 SSD?
*
MX100 is the lower-end, M550 is the higher-end, just like Samsung EVO and Pro, each with their own advantage, MX100 is definitely a good choice for performance/value.

This post has been edited by wildwestgoh: Nov 7 2014, 01:44 PM
horns
post Nov 7 2014, 02:02 PM

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same size. definitely different speed biggrin.gif

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/40979/aberde...hdds/index.html

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/40935/membla...-ssd/index.html

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