Well, I do before I buy ! But not FC. Just imagine I care about FC if I wanna buy a BMW 328. just like a Chinese proveb' want a horse that run fast and also a horse that doesn't eat grass'.

BMW 316d, 318d, 320d, 325d, 330d, 335d. Except for the 335d they are all below 5l/100 km. The slowest one takes 10.9s to 100, the 335d takes 4.8s to 100. While consuming 5.4l/100km (admittedly not when you are taking 4.8s to 100... but if you drive more sedate those figures or even better can be done).

Only problem is these cars are a bit expensive to buy in the first place.

Well you can find the same Altis design here as the one in US. Nevermind if it's stripped down here. LOL!

Corolla USA (Fully loaded) = Corolla Altis Malaysia (stripped down) = Corolla Altis Thailand & rest of Asia (also stripped down except China)

Nah...not a fan of diesel and hybrid car.

BMW 328i is performance oriented car luxury car. People bought them are either rich or for business status or to convince bank/customers. It is totally out of topic if you are talking about non-luxury Japanese/Korean D-segment price range where we could barely afford. If you are not rich and don't care about FC at all, sounds like you are those who depend on your wife or parents' money to buy the car and to feed on. Even new BMW F10/30, etc, they are great at FC nowadays compared to rivals. BMW 320D could even challenge 1.5L B-segment in FC. Is this not good FC?

If you wanted to talk about Pug or VW, they are higher end category, back then people buy them because of their performance, handling and high build quality. Today, even these cars come with proper FC. Your metaphor horse doesn't eat grass means the car doesn't use fuel at all. Mind you, the best horse does not mean it eats the most grass. The fattest man eats the most but he is not healthiest and could not do most of the things. Understand?

If you are a buyer, want to talk about Teana vs Mazda 6. Teana is not performance car, it has worst handling in D-segment category, worst FC, weakest gearbox, it has thinnest pillars, frames and flat straight sides that doubt it pass US/EU safety rating (never screened), then why would you bother buying this car when there are Camry, Accord, Sonata/Optima that could offer more? Want to talk about comfort, it only relies heavily on its thick soundproof insulation to make you think it's the quietest. By right you could easily add sound insulation to other brands here. Technical, safety, aerodynamic and the extra side chassis frame/body protection, you don't get to add this as they come in the car itself.


zeus2005,
Sources got from several different Japanese/Korean brands SC & taxi fleet, taking into consideration problem that could cause breakdown and severe issues only. Also counting the numbers of cars being towed back to SC:
Toyota proven most reliable/durable followed by Mazda and Hyundai-Kia then Honda. Ofcourse, I only look at proper Toyota make/model Vios, Altis and Camry. Forgo the Innova, Avanza and Rush meant for substandard 3rd nation category.

This post has been edited by jayraptor: Jun 6 2013, 09:34 PM

Don't remember since when local Camry had pass EU/US crash test.

US & Australia use different version Camry.

Hi kadajawi,
Toyota Vios dugong, Altis '08 or Camry '07, they don't give much but they still pass the requirement to be in the segment they are in. The length x width x height qualified to be in the segment they are in example Vios B-segment, Altis C-segment and Camry D-segment. Reliability & durability, they are the best whereas their FC are acceptable, not the best but still belong under good category. We buy Toyota, it is nothing more than safebuy where you can keep for long term with ease of maintenance. We buy Mazda 6, its because of its reliability/durability, quality, FC, performance, handling.

Sylphy is B-segment limo for Japan local domestic market meant for enjoying tax exemption and due to very high cost of ownership, it is designed as cheap and affordable cars for Japanese in overcrowded Japan that could not afford C-segment. The Teana serves the same purpose but it was not entitled to tax exemption therefore the local Japanese find it irrelevant and went for other makes including Skyline 250GT. Therefore Teana was phased out early in Japan. The actual Nissan models for global market are Altima L32 D-segment and Sentra B16 C-segment. Altima L32 is sports sedan on same league as Mazda 6 '08 with main focus on sporty theme rather than large interior space therefore they are smaller than Camry inside. Teana at the other hand is made flat straight boxy inside just to be bigger than Camry and forgo the thick pillars and frames required for safety.

Altis FL '10 did give something that Toyota would not give. They were generous enough to give new engine, new gearbox, proper suspension that gives proper handling. Vios by right wanted to come up with replacement and give dual VVTi engine upgrade but was withdrawn as the sales of Dugong unaffected by competitor. Same goes with Camry FL '09 that by right they should give new dual VVTi engine as in other Asia country, but withdrawn as Camry sales were doing well. Toyota to give you goodies only when they get desperate and losing badly in sales.


jolokia,
The difference between Toyota Aurion and Camry are just the fenders, bonnets, lights and grills. The chassis, frame, structure and pillars are entirely the same. Are you trying to say having different fenders and lights would get much difference on result whereas these parts will only be destroyed in crash test rather than stopping impact.

You compare Altima vs Teana, the Teana whole structure and chassis frame are totally different. These are the crucial part in determining safety rating.

Forget 1.5L B segment car. It rivals the Viva.

The Yaris was tested for 100000 km in Germany... lots of problems with that car. The Avensis wasn't that good either... maybe average amongst the cars tested. Really reliable were the Mazda 3, 5 and 6 and the Toyota Prius I and III (II not tested). Extremely unreliable was the first generation Touran, the magazine put a tent in front of the VW SC .

The Vios didn't do well in the ASEAN NCAP test... actually it almost did as bad as the Saga FLX+. Of course the Myvi was even worse.

Also you don't know if internally the ASEAN Camry is the same with the US Camry. There was an article recently where they've shown that Latin American cars are less safe than European cars... despite being the same model. They have fewer welding spots (reducing production costs), lack beams meant for strengthening, use lower quality materials, thinner materials, ... there is a lot that can be done to cut costs. I mean, they remove stability control and airbags to save cost... things the customer will actually notice. You think they may not have internal changes too, to make it cheaper to produce?

ok lets sum up,

Jayraptor opinion Best in the world Camry, Accord,
OK OK brand Mazda 6, Kia optima, Sonata
cars you should aviod : Teana

While the rest has different opinion

My Opinion.

Best car D segment : none of the above. Ford Mondeo is my choice.

informative thread

but lose the childish attack, name calling, banter and bickering please.

ANCAP ratings are out for the Aurion, or Camry in Asia. It scored 5 stars. Because the test is conducted according to EuroNCAP standards, you can reasonably conclude that it will also do the same in the EuroNCAP test.

But the difference is that the Australian Aurion is fully loaded, whereas in Asia, the same car is stripped down. Still if tested under ASEAN-NCAP, you can still reasonably expect it to score at least 3 stars (latest model with VSC included) but unlikely to exceed 4 stars.

http://www.ancap.com.au/pdf/468.PDF

Indeed. What do you think about subaru legacy?

Yes, but that is assuming that they did not do any structural changes that are not visible to customers. And if they are already cheapskates on safety stuff that IS visible to customers... well lets just say I wouldn't be too surprised if internally there haven't been changes too. Even if it is just to use fewer welding spots/not so strong welding. Can save money, but it makes the car less crashworthy. There are many other things that can be done to reduce production costs that we can't see.

subaru nice, but a little too cold in our market, maybe in a couple of years it will warm up. but at that 250 to 280 region, plenty of great choices out there.

All these are just way below 200K. Subaru legacy, i am sure it is one hell of a car.

But no matter how, in a Malaysian Mindset. it is always dream car Mercedes, BMW and Audi. As for Subaru, volvo, ford, and so on are just something where most Malaysians 90 % of them try to avoid. At 200 K and Above they wont risk their hard earn money to buy a Legacy and being shy away by the majority of Merc and BMW owners. Its a psychology thing. And some Ego as well.

If what you want is a D-segment that is fast, powerful, handles well then the best choice is a Ford Mondeo.

If what you want is a D-segment that is comfortable and reasonably fast then the best choice is a Citroen C5.

Indeed. I'm more inclined towards performance than creature comfort.

I test drove the legacy before and it was a monster despite its size. I was told to push even harder, but it was good enough for me. But I've never seen a legacy OTR

Mondeo, I liked its overall package esp its revised power but he turnoff was its styling and badge.

What's wrong with the badge? It's a good brand what, looks wise very subjective, dugong is also very sexy according to some ppl. Buying a ford today is so much better compare to 10 years ago.

Ford was founded 1903... Toyota 1937. Ford is one of the biggest car makers in the world, and has had a few firsts that other brands then copied. It may have had the most influential car ever. If there is a brand that has great prestige, it's Mercedes Benz, Citroen and Ford. IMHO. Those were the big ones, the innovators.

Oh, and just in my opinion the outgoing Mondeo may be one of the sexiest and best looking D segment car, period. Not just in Malaysia.

This post has been edited by kadajawi: Jun 7 2013, 06:27 PM

Prestige in Ford & Citroen??

Toyota has been always scoring average US/EU safety rating but they still passed the minimum score. In reality accident cases, we have all seen how well Vios, Altis and Camry fared. The most serious we read on paper, blogs, etc, the occupants still survive despite seriously injured. 1 case where a Camry '07 driven reckless flew into the sky landed upside down on a hut. Mazda at the other hand scored high in US/EU safety rating and even in reality, they had the best survival cases ever being rammed head on by lost control semi truck and the Malay owner walked unhurt in his Mazda 5 MPV. The same goes to Ford, started with their first Mondeo in 1992 where a lady and her newborn baby survived he worst crash ever with trailer.

Due to stiff competition from conti, Korean and Japanese D-segment competitors, I think the current Camry might be replaced with total redesign more fully packed replacement soon. Just keep voicing out and the Japanese carmakers will get the feedback.

Ford they started almost everything, even came up with the design that everyone followed in 80's, 90's, 2000's, 2010's but they always don't get the credit due to too slow in coming up with production model. By the time they came out, all their invention and creative design had been copied heavily by competitors when Ford announced and showed the prototype around. Ford always end up being labelled as copycat instead.

sonyman,
I didn't say Korean makes ok ok only, instead I rated them as being reliable/durable and they tried to give us more than most Japanese cars would offer. Check again, I only said Toyota is safe buy, didn't say the best. The best car goes to Mazda. Ford, VW, Pug/Citroen in terms of tech, build quality, performance & handling. Ford could only do well if they go CKD here. Back then, Mazda/Ford known to be less favourable but because of CKD here, they have lots of affordable spare parts around therefore people are convinced to buy them. They are sold in healthy numbers monthly and in around 90's, they even outsold N-brand. You an find more Ford around that time than N-brand.