those in medical schools now will have no problem with securing a job with the moh......so future job prospects in msia is excellent.......

one does not have to go work elsewhere to sit for postgraduate exams in the uk.......the mrcp, mrcog exams are open exams, and anyone with the necessary required rotations in msian hospitals can sit for them........

How about surgical post grad? Only local master programme is recognized here.
In addition, as you have rightly mentioned, MRCP and MRCOG are not specialist degree, but merely entrance exams to specialist training programme in the UK. Therefore, one has to complete Certification in Completion of the Specialist Training (CCST) before being gazetted as a consultant. Therefore, Singapore, is a better place for specialist and sub-specialist training after MRCP, as the standard is much higher.

Besides the UK pathway, many also tend to apply for US and Auz, which requires the candidates to receive training there.

in msia, like i said before, after mrcp and mrcog, one gets gazetted after 18 months, and is recognised as specialists, for the purpose of registration with the nsr (national specialist register)......the cst (supersedes the ccst) is not relevant in msia........

unfortunately, the mrcs is not recognised, so surgical training is a bit of problem at the moment.......the frcs will require onshore recognised postings.......

nevertheless, 30-50% of masters places are taken by non-malays......just compete like everybody else lah........

about standards, what makes one thinks if one is not good enough to qualify to get into nus/um/ukm medical programme, and not good enough to compete with other non malays to enter the masters, that one will qualify to be selected for employment in spore, even after mrcp.......? cos the others will also have their postgraduate qualifications as well.......

point remains, there are many options locally to advance in careers, one need not go overseas.......unless one intend to migrate, training being just an excuse........

it's a very different mindset, judging from the few forumers here, very different from the old days.....

Phew ... I suppose it is really up to the person what he or she wants to do with his or her life. Overseas or local, ultimately one should pursue what makes one happy and contented with life. There is no point living in frustration. Each one has his or her own life to lead.

Again, i think for the third time ... I hope somebody will answer my question which got lost in this tirade. We are starting our systems module with clinical teaching incorporated (a lot simulation and practice on SIMs); any idea on how to approach this?

Might be a stupid question but am quite the clueless here.

I think Asian Syndrome do exist in some Malaysian doctor in the sense that there are some who love to work in Singapore but are not studying medicine there aka study in Country A but wanting to work in Country B.

But it is no where as serious as Indian studying in India but wanting to go work in UK.

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Added on January 18, 2009, 7:46 pmMy definition of Asian Syndrome would be:
It is a syndrome of which one graduated from country A with intention to work in country B. Full Stop.

It does not matter for what reason.

Ideally, if a person wanted to work in Country B, they should automatically or naturally study medicine in Country B.



This post has been edited by Optiplex330: Jan 18 2009, 07:46 PM

I suppose by learning all these syndromes ... we would somehow benefit.

for those contemplating applying to work in spore, this is some info just obtained through personal communication with a spore based msian doctor.....

the recent change in uk immigration laws has resulted in a marked increase in msian uk graduates applying and working in spore......

in addition, the recent recognition of um and ukm by smc has resulted in many fresh graduates from these two unis applying to do their housemanship in spore........which is still 1 year, while it is now 2 years of 'slavery' in msia.......

i need not add which ethnicity these will be......

these will be your likely competitors.......

This post has been edited by limeuu: Jan 19 2009, 11:55 AM

Thanks for the info limeuu.

These are Asian Syndrome.

Enough with the syndromes or do we want to go on further; South Asian, East Asian, West Asian Syndromes ? I mean they are generalizations and labellings which are somewhat discriminative. Expats earn a honest living and that's beneath us now? LOL.

1. 30-50% of masters places are taken by non-malays? Evidence pls.

2. It's still possible for non-bumis to secure a place in Master programme in malaysia, just that by the time you manage to do so, you will be in your mid or late 30s, or even early 40s. Why do you think so many non-bumis opt for MRCP in the first place?

3. If you are capable of obtaining MRCP, you are definitely on par, if not better than those with local master degree. Why do you think MRCP is recognized in all over the world but local master programme is only recognized in Msia? Your capability is recognized by the degrees you have to certain extent, at least in terms of recognition by various health authorities overseas. Also, the focus of our debate is the eligibility to work there, not the possibility of securing a job offer. I hope you know how to differentiate the 2.

4. It's a well known fact that local master programme of popular disciplines like Orthopaedics, surgery and O&G are largely reserved for bumi doctors. Most non-bumi doctors will get family med, psychiatry and public health. In addition, sub-specialty training is better in overseas.


Actually, Asian syndrome is just a term we coined up ourselves. I have my own definition so do you. The fact is that many are leaving the country one way or another. If you truly have the "serve your people and your country spirit", you will return to msia even though you receive your undergrad or postgrad training in UK. I think we all know why so many people are reluctant to come back to Msia after obtaining degrees overseas.

This post has been edited by hypermax: Jan 20 2009, 05:30 PM

eh.......in this particular case of using mrcp for conditional registration due to unrecognised primary qualification, you are NOT eligible to work, until you get the conditional registration, which you can ONLY get if you have a firm offer of a job............therefore securing a firm job offer is vital..........before being eligible......

Which means that with MCRP(UK), one is eligible as long as he secures a job offer via conditional offer, which means working in Singapore is possible.

However, with unrecognized primary degree and post grad degree, one has no way to work in Singapore.

Mind you, doctors with recognized primary qualifications, who have completed housemanship abroad (not in S'pore), have to register with SMC via conditional registration, before proceed to obtain full registration. Therefore, the pathways for both recognized postgrad and recognized primary degrees are essentially the same.

This post has been edited by hypermax: Jan 20 2009, 06:05 PM

eh.........not the same lah.........

if you are recognised, you can register, then go look for job lah......

if not, and using something like mrcp , then you have to look for a job first.......no offer, no registration........and lots of uk, um, ukm people looking at the same jobs.......

anyway, this is all moot.......go get the mrcp, mrcog, whatever first lah......and possibly the rules will have changed by then.........

This post has been edited by limeuu: Jan 20 2009, 06:13 PM

I think it's mandatory for foreign trained doctors to work under supervision first. Looks at the criteria for Conditional registration:


If conditional registration is strictly for those with recognized post grad but unrecognized primary qualifications, why do they include the criterion in bold above? If a doctor with recognized primary degree can apply for full registration directly, who would want to apply for conditional offer?

BTW, i have no intention on working in Singapore, as i have stated many times. I am just here to provide info for those who wanna work in S'pore.

This post has been edited by hypermax: Jan 20 2009, 06:26 PM

whatever.......

wonder if the spore people still go on road shows to recruit doctors in imu, nz and oz unis, like they used to do..........maybe with the flood of people from uk, they don't need to anymore.......

This post has been edited by limeuu: Jan 20 2009, 06:27 PM

They do that? Why? Short of doctors? Low pay? Good pay? How's career prospect for advancement etc? Who are the majority that takes up their offer? Malaysian? Australian?

opti, they are targeting msians in these unis lah.......spore is relatively short of junior and intermediate level doctors in the last few years........

some took the bait, know a few there.........including my bil.......

let's face the facts.......fully HALF of all doctors in spore are or were msians........

This post has been edited by limeuu: Jan 20 2009, 06:30 PM

Seriously, the "whatever" makes you sound Kiasu.
I think they still do, as more UK grad Malaysian doctors wanna work in Aus rather than Singapore. Also, a Singapore based doctor once told me many rich doctors are migrating from Singapore. Apparently many Singaporeans do not like their mother land.

Mostly Malaysian and Singaporean. Yes, Singapore is short of docs right now.

This post has been edited by hypermax: Jan 22 2009, 01:29 PM

In that case, I think British, Aussie and now Singaporean are getting smarter than Malaysian. They know the real money is in finance whereas doctor cost too much to educate and too much hard work to be worth it.