Hi guys, I would like you to give me an advice regarding my situation.

I am an A level student, keen on pursuing medicine. there are two things that I am concerned now.

The long working hrs, and the amount of stress worries me, so may I ask, how do u balance yr life and work now? (doctors) Currently, u still work 9-5 every day with on calls? Or still got night shift? Around how many hours u work per week?
In future, I want to prioritize my family, I dun mind to be busy working in early days of HO and MO, but I prefer to have more time for my family at middle 30, is that possible for a doctor to have balance life afterward?

-I like biology, and I am willing to help people, but somehow I am afraid of surgery part, I feel like I would not able to perform it well, my hand will feel numb and a bit panic.. when I saw video about chest tube insertion, I scared, so does it mean that medic might not suit me? Or it is just a natural phenomenon for pre-medical students?

Most probably I would not major surgical parts in postgraduate studies, so basically, what are the surgical skills that an HO need to know? Maybe this can make me more prepared.

Tq

I believe graduates are eligible for training if they complete their postgrad exams.
I know a msian doctor from UM who is currently on the paediatric training programme in the UK after completing his MRCPCH in Malaysia.

Thanks, Jckc.
That's really great news for KL holders of MRCS/MRCP/CH/OG 'obstructed' by local Master's programmes, it seems.
Not sure if there is such similar case of acceptance in Spore though.

Any indication of when was the switch-over in UK rules ?
... as the 'unfavourable' rule was said to be valid in 2009/2010 .

This post has been edited by zeng: Dec 17 2017, 08:50 PM

Kesian... let me answer your questions from my experience working in the Govt. hospital in Sabah...

For your first question, the terrible and most stressful period that I had was during the housemanship period (A.K.A Hellmanship) which NORMALLY spans for a duration of 2 years if one doesn't get extended in any department... that is easier said than done, particularly if one gets Sabah/Sarawak hospitals where the extension rate is HIGH. (they truly expect the new MO to be fully competent after HO-ship here in Sabah/Sarawak when they post the new MO in God-knows-where jungle/island)

Housemanship is where you are at the mercy of your Medical Officers/Specialists/Consultants... and even senior nurses... they will scold you... humiliate you... become their slave etc etc...

The tagging weeks of each posting are the worst... some department requires you to remain from 6AM - 11PM everyday for 6 days straight (one day off) for two weeks... at the end of the two weeks - some sort of Off-tagging test need to be taken, if you pass you are allowed to join the rest of the HOs working the 'normal hours' and you are considered 'competent-enough' to work night-shift...

If you fail... the horrendous tagging period continues... and you will be re-assessed again at a later time as decided by the specialist...

Even if you have off-tagged... forget the fixed schedule they give you... you will still be expected to come earlier than the MOs to review the cases in wards... and go back home once ALL of your pending tasks/assisted-surgery are completed... An off-tagged houseman usually gets a full-day off and a night-shift workday in a week... but this depends on the number of houseman available in that particular department... if there is a lack of houseman... the night shift system will become 'On-Call' system... this is particularly true in very large deparments such as Medical department...

There are mandatory exams (both theory and clinical) and procedures to be completed before you can be allowed to complete the posting and move on to another... From my experience... Paediatrics and OBGyn postings are the most difficult...

In these departments - its a HO eat HO world... HOs compete with each other to get compulsory procedures that doesn't come by so often...

In pediatrics for example - one must pass the Neonatal Resuscitation Program (NRP) both theory and practical... before being allowed to escort patients and allowed to be posted in NICU level 3/become runner in delivery room/OT... and the valuable procedures one must get are often found in NICU level 3/delivery room/OT... eg; Neonatal intubation, Umbilical cord catheterization, etc...

You will even have to 'camp'/sleep in the hospital after working hours in order to get these procedures... if you are lucky... you may be able to get it... even that depends on whether the MO/Specialists allows it... if you have bad rep with them.... then good luck... you might just be extended indefinitely due to inability to procure these compulsory procedures...

If you failed twice in a posting... you will be transferred OUT to another hospital in ANOTHER STATE (eg; Sabah to Sarawak, vice versa) and is given final chance to repeat the same posting there... fail again... then say good bye to your job and good bye to ever becoming a doctor...

... there is a lot I can talk about on HELLMANSHIP from my own experience... but lets stop there for now....

Once you manage to become a full-fledged Medical Officer (MO)... the state health department will decide where to send you... be it Govt Health Clinics, District Hospitals, Referral Hospitals or even absorbed into management... Life as a medical officer differs in each of the aforementioned places... with the busiest being referral hospitals... and most relaxed in Management... overall... a better life than a life of a puny Houseman...

On your second question... liking Biology is not a strong enough reason to do medicine... and lets not get ahead of yourself talking about surgery/surgical skills before you even manage to enter medical school... many of my colleagues could not withstand medical school or even housemanship and quit.... thus wasting hundred thousands of ringgit in tuition fees/living cost that could have been better used for some other purposes...

This post has been edited by CyberSetan: Dec 17 2017, 10:56 PM

Is this training "limited" in the sense that once you're done with training, you have to leave the UK, or do you get to apply on equal basis with the locals to continue working?

no idea, sorry :/

Once youre in the training programme, you'll be granted the visa duration to complete the training to consultant (aka CCT) if it is a run through programme, aka no need to reapply for higher specialty training. Might need to renew the visa after 5 years/apply for Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR) if your training is longer than 5 years. (the Tier 2 visa is usually given at max of 5 years at once)

If youre in a medicine/surgery core training programme, you'll need to reapply for Higher specialty training after 2/3 years. (At this point, then you'll once again be subjected to RLMT aka round 2 if you are not a local/uk trained doctor.)

Disclaimer: this is what I'm aware of so far as a final year med student and from talking to other msian doctors in the UK.

Oh, not aware that F1 can do locum.

Have to check with her.

The only time available will probably be late evening, after work or over the weekends when she is not working.

Interesting option.

During relative posting in surgery, he was most of the time working from 6am to 2am as the specialist only do his rounds at 11 pm. He was on the verge of giving up because on certain days he cannot sleep, probably due to stress and frustration. On one occasion, the MO sent him to the operations room and when he came out the specialist saw him and ask him where was he. The specialist said who gave him permission and immediately extended his tagging period by another 2 weeks.

He is in his 5th posting now and still do on calls 2 times a week.

I told him its tough working in the gomen and more of such nonsense will come in the future. Not to say that private sector is all good but at least merit does play a significant part in one's future.

Wow, this scenario occurs in UK too, or is it Msia ?
Was of the impression that HO days in Spore is as tough as KL , not sure which would be worst in relation though .

Thanks for yr reply!! It seems like there is so much issue about medicine and also, do u mind share yr experience about surgical skills? Are u scared before going into medical school? Or is there any case where yr coursemate almost get fainted and try to regain their courage? Lol, what I mean is usually can we cope up this affraidness?.....So currently where are u working now? ,

[quote=zeng,Dec 18 2017, 12:05 PM]
[/quote]
Wow, this scenario occurs in UK too, or is it Msia ?
Was of the impression that HO days in Spore is as tough as KL , not sure which would be worst in relation though .

[/quote]

He is in a local general hospital. He will be applying to Sabah to serve as an MO.

Word of advice for him...

If he is posted in any one of the major referral hospitals in Sabah...

...be warned and be prepared to be ridiculed and treated as a Houseman by the specialists/consultants there, they will look down on peninsular-trained new MOs versus Sabah/Sarawak-trained MOs unless he is able to prove to them that he is competent and at-par with their own trained MOs...

Previously as a houseman, I watched how some of the new MOs from peninsular Malaysia getting scolded and humiliated during rounds by their specialists/consultants due to their inability to 'adapt' or handle themselves as MOs - as if they are no different from HOs... These new MOs too have tagging period and assesment...

This post has been edited by CyberSetan: Dec 18 2017, 07:12 PM

I work as an MO somewhere in Sabah...

Like I said before... it is too early for you to be discussing about surgery/surgical skills...

If one is determined to do medicine, obviously one should not be afraid or scared of entering medical program and of blood...
No course mate of mine fainted/scared of blood... that would be silly...

some however... just wasn't interested in medicine... dropped-out of MBBS program... and do something else...

His gf is in one of the major hospitals. He has got friends in other hospitals and I think he would have got the relevant feedback.

I believe he is competent enough to discharge his duties as an MO. If not, he deserve to be scolded for his lack of skills and failure to give the necessary care to the patients.

Found out from her that in her hospital, she thinks there are opportunities for locum but probably for F2 and above. Not sure about other Glasgow hospitals. She doesn't sound keen at the moment and is more interested in planning where to travel.

Just before starting work, she went to Italy for 2 weeks and another 2 weeks in US. She went to Greece during the recent break and has her plans set for CNY and May 2018 as well.

You actually earn alot as a FY in scotland if youre banded.

I think F1s can work in the same hospital that they're attached to, IF there are locum spots. I could be wrong. I think one can get £25/hour, but of course less after taxes.

Because of ewtd, there will be periods of time when F1 and 2 have time off, over the standard leaves....if people call in sick, you can do locums for them, during such periods...it will be in the same hospital, and usually in the same unit....

But I suspect most will rather take the time off to travel....

If there are so much reservations, I suggest don't do it....even those with great "passion" for the profession are finding it tough and dropping like flies....

There are so much more to life than being a doctor....