In johor.
1 of our JV partner have a very successful BH so we just followed his leadership during renovation.
Since the place is rented and now BN price drop until so low, I calculated need to harvest 300 nest to break-even the monthly rental. A very far and unlikely target with risks that the landlord might evict us without proper compensation.
If continue to pump in thousands to paint the walls from pitch-black back to white and build brick wall to replace current "boarded up windows" , I don't think it's a good idea trying to test the bottomless pit.
Ground floor is eatery everyday got smell blow up.
Already come to this stage must accept the failure..... do it without regrets ... we won't be pointing the blame on anybody.

Will be putting what I learned to good use for the second BH. Planning to seek help from a boss in this BN industry to help us do the entry hole and nesting planks while I do the tweeter+wiring and handle all the maintenance over the next 1-2 decade.

This post has been edited by BirdNest_Satay: Oct 2 2012, 10:02 PM

All the fundamental requirements for a successful BH are in this forum. There is NO set style and as such requires keen observation of the surroundings. One method that is successful in one area may not work at all in another area, but the fundamental requirements are similar.

You need someone who is willing to spend time to study your intended BH and immediate area to see if it can be feasible. It takes time, effort and experience to ascertain if the building and area will be good or mediocre. Having said that, even the most experienced sometimes produce 'lemons'.

Good Luck.

Having been in this industry for the past several years; I can understand how sadden you must be over the failed farm. First, there was the initial euphoria and can do spirit... Blessed are those farms that succeeded because those that do not stand as a daily reminder of the promises that had gone sour. I had spend so much time and effort in my effort to resurrect my initially moribund farms that its sometimes strange to look back and see my glaring mistakes.

Now my farms at least have a foundation for them to move upward but still, there are still challenges galore. I had tried many many conceivable ideas and some work but many don't. Sometimes I felt tired and sick of the whole thing especially now when the prices suck. Still I feel good progress is rather slow in coming; not like the geometric progressions that was projected by many in this field- meaning a doubling of nests every year until the farm is full... no such luck...yet! Every single nest come not with ease. Well, there was a time about two years ago when the nest growth shoot up like a rocket... until the magical growth stop after several months.

Hope the difficulties and challenges I encountered which I related here will give you some comfort in that success in this fickle industry is not easy. Good luck to you even as I scratched my head over waiting for the nests to cross the 1,000 mark which might still be somewhere ahead... Good luck to you but you should know that while lady luck plays a part, many other variables factor in this game... location being among the highest criteria, how tall the building (in town), art and science of designing the farm... good quality tools and equipment that are reliable and get the job done... my recommendation- use the Taiwan humidifiers and not the ultras which often broke down one way or another and requires maintenance. There may be good an reliable ultras but my personal experience is not good. Mine are the DIY project using twelve ceramic heads... give me headaches! Again- good luck!

I have to agree some pros can even produce lemons. Earlier this year, i posted some photos on my newly extended bird house. 10 months later as today, not even a single bird nest in the new BH. Old and new BH just side to side, i connect them internally and use the same sounds. Still no result. Going to make some modification during semester break.

Throughout my observation in recent years, i notice swiftlet does change their behavior. Previously it was quite easy to lure the birds into my bird house. But now, it is so difficult even i fail to lure my own bird in the past 10 months.

When you are old and so used to BH, there isn't any excitement in visiting one and not even your own. My latest collection is completed and one day before the handling over the BH, the Indo subcon rang me and told me," Boss, banyak burung dalam dan masok juga control room!" Mari tengok tengok and I wasn't excited and didn't go to see what happening. The next day, the Indo man came to my office and asked when I was going to pay him for the services ie the remainder of the uncompleted work left by the Kontractor (mind you more than RM45K).........and he show me his Ipad (boy!, even orang Indo worker has a Ipad now) with video of my BH and the birds flying cycling inside and in the control room.........I was definitely glad and paid him without even checking the work done. Two days later, I went to the BH and I believe the the tweeters wiring is wrong and amps wrongly connected but I just left it as it it and now is about 2 months....even the work terrible and bad but I hope that the birds don't mind staying lah.

No more excited over the matter any more and reasons could be.
1. Fed up with farming already.
2. Getting too old to meddle or repair 15ft height BH. Tried once to climb a 12ft. ladder (expensive one lah) and I felt unsafe up there.
3. BH doesn't excite me anymore
4. Possible that the low price has negative effect on me.
5. My son told me to sell off all BHs, retire and spend well as if I don't, after I died and surely will, they will sell off the BHs as they have no interest in it........
6. Friends asked me to visit their BHs recently never get a "OK" from me and before, I was always ready to go at any time of the day.

So, in my case, the proverb of "I care for the swiftlets for 3 years and the swiftlets will care for my 3 generations" are all gone as when I die so are all my BHs.....and and with present price, you will lucky that your next generation can survive on EBN.

Another story from me and hope that you like it.

From the shared experiences of two veterans in this field; I can see that I'm not the only one starting to get somewhat fed up and tired of this swiftlet farming which was overpromised and underdelivered. I had really put in so much effort and energy and sweated, injured, and took crazy chances scrambling atop the roof area, climb overly high in the staircase landing (I'd since build a platform there) by tying two wooden ladders together! At least I managed to revive two badly failed farms.... The period when I constantly renovating in a bid to revive the farms was among the most frustrated I ever felt and worried over. Yet, I think the most heart-rending thing is the crashing of the nests in terms of the dismal low prices. If only the price can please go up to $3,000+, there would be smiles again!

WW we are all very discouraged by what has been happening to our rice bowl but we are doing our best to reverse the current trend. Let us hope for if we do not have any hope it will be the end for all of us.

For a few hundred years, EBN has been in great demand and because of the action of a greedy few, consumers have lost confidence but I hope eventually this confidence will return as we learn to control the cheaters, adulterers and the profiteers.

We, to protect our industry must make a concerted effort to stop anyone from adulterating natural EBN. Even if it means reporting the persons to the authorities. We cannot risk another incident. There will always be cheaters but if we show them that we mean business, there will be fewer. I know most of us had been guilty
of turning a blind eye on those making 'Blood' nests and false or adulterated nests for the past years. We got to change.

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Added on October 3, 2012, 6:46 pmYes, observation is the most important aspect in improving your BH.

It is quite well known that joining a new BH to an existing BH by taking down a wall etc. will usually not work.This is because the birds in the old BH have already got the map of the old BH into their heads and the new annexe does not 'exist'. The simplest solution is to have separate in/out holes for each BH. You can keep the knocked down wall but have another dog kennel or well and the birds will think it's a new place. The advantage is that young birds from one house will populate the adjoining house not knowing that it's the same. That has been basic knowledge for sometime now.

For unknown reasons AF are attracted to the calls of the same specie but will not always react in the same way. A good call here might be a bad call elsewhere.They always react when there are changes to the call patterns which is why many people are making constant changes to their calls and also editing new sounds. All these are basically just the same sounds recorded from the birds when they roost. Just mixed and edited over and over again to make it seem different. We need to understand the birds' language but failing that, mixing and editing seems to work wonders.

For any machine to work flawlessly for a long time it has to be simple and strong. The chicken coop humidifier is proven and tested over many many years, simple and built of materials that should last for several years. OTOH the ultrasonic humidifier, in principle is very simple but prone to fast wearing. The crystal surfaces have a fine conductor layer which is corroded by water. The conductor is often made of cheap copper which through electrolysis will not last long. The crystal being quartz glass will fracture when over stressed or the conductor will delaminate. The frequency the crystal is made to vibrate is very high, 20,000 cycles per second or more and made to work in a dense medium like water which in turn causes more stress similarly our tweeters last much longer because it works in the air. Think of the chicken coop humidifier at 1000 rpm or 17 cycles per second and the ultrasonic at over 20000 cycles per second, which will wear out first !

Luck is expertise that others do not understand. Careful and keen observation will go a long long way in eliminating 'Luck'




This post has been edited by tuckfook: Oct 3 2012, 06:46 PM

Having following this blog and discussions for so long since V1, I'm very sad to learn that even the most optimistic and caring BH member is now losing interest and excitement in the EBN industry. Not so sure what is happening to those just joined the industry or other veteran with successful farm with over or below 1K nest. Everybody wants to throw the towel now?

In my opinion, these negative views are simply outburst born of frustrations due to the lengthy period of bearish market for nests. Once the prices move up significantly... all farmers with nests to sell will feel lively again. This is normal human psychology in which pessimism breeds more pessimism until depression sets in and hope keeps on diminishing... its like what the US said about the Vietnam war and now, the Afghanistan war in which the US is like caught inside a tunnel with no light at the end...

Let just hope the prices will go up in December and then go up another level once the second agreement on raw unclean nests is sign. I will state here for the record that this industry will surely survive and prosper, only it takes god knows how long....

This post has been edited by philoswiflet: Oct 3 2012, 08:36 PM

I am cautiously optimistic.
Uncle WW has contributed so much to guide us. Let's cheer him up.

all this happened bcoz of politics involvement. I think there's nothing we can do now except pray hard.

Praying + Action = Change out BN

Not so sure changing gov is the best medicine to the industry. I'm not trying to side the gov but based on my observation our gov is trying their hard to salvage, support and revive the industry. Even PM announced some time ago that the EBN industry is identified as the new source and potential for developing high income for its citizen. Somehow their involvement has been slapped with the confidence crisis (intentionally created or coincide I'm not so sure) As this industry is new industry to the gov (off course the best people to advise them should be the prominent people in the industry like koh loh, ww chan K, dato beh etc) I suspect they have been somewhat inappropriately advised by some people who is trying to exploit the situation to their advantage....

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Added on October 4, 2012, 1:05 pmLatest today....http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2012/10/4/nation/12121120&sec=nation

This post has been edited by zar7677: Oct 4 2012, 01:05 PM

change govenrment mean getting rid of those useless advisor who only think of themselves 1st.

All we tried to do are all in vain.Either we speak different language or someone purposely change the subject of conversation.

I told the Federal Asociation that since 90% of the members are farmers then farmers must come first in their priority agenda and if China want only processed nests so be it and China isn't the only country in the world that buy our nests and infact, if we really turn back the pages; it's the Indo buyers representatives that bought the most nests from us and who care for the few BH owners like B or J that can afford to export their nest directly to China.

By not allowing our unprocessed nests out, the authorities have infact kill our abilities to have better quotes for our nests and now, we only have local buyers representing local processing plants or some underwater buyers that smuggle nests into China or who really care where they export to. Both of them are offering so low for such good EBN and they are also so choosy that you felt sick immediately after their visit.

Please like before by allowing our nests to be exported and if China wants processed nests; that's isn't a problem at all but pls. let us remain the same ie selling nests to anyone willing to buy....but if our govt. banned all export of unprocessed nests; we far, mers are all doomed and await the slaughter room.....................Really till today, I still don't understand the logic of the authorities of banning the export or our unprocessed nests as this was done for hundred of years and we aren't selling directly to China anyway; at least, majority of us poor farmers and why we need to bear the penalty of the wrong that the Orang Kaya have done.

These rich BH owners didn't need to suffer as they have the authorisation for processing plant and so the export permit so I heard and what's about us!!!!!! We don't ask for alot and infact, we ask for nothing and only freedom to sell to anyone wanting to buy and all the authorities need to do is allow the free flow of the nests..and that's isn't alot to ask for. We are not beggars nor we want or need the govt to subsidize our income ............. "we have learn the art of fishing and know where to fish but allow us to right to the river side so that we can fish".......likewise, let GOD decide our future and not some ministers............above are only my personal feelings over the present situation that never seem to end....

In addition to what WW has mentioned, Looking at the current fiasco and doom we are in now, lesson learns that we farmers need to get our axe together as almost all EBN association and council is now represented by EBN traders/ merchants/processors/ exporter who are actively advising the gov.

Whereas majority of us poor farmers are not represented and leaving our fate to the mercy of the advisors.

I think the time has come for farmers to form its own association with no influence of the others who is looking to take big advantage from the farmers.

Changing BN= Getting rid of incompetence. No guarantee that new goman is better but at least there is a chance that things could be better. It simply couldn't get worse.

Just my 2 sen.

The situation has now changed. Genuine swiftlet farmers are now running naked. They have no choice but to sell RUBN to the local processors. This way we have to sell our EBN to only local processors at their price unlike last time they have to compete with foreign buyers at competitive price which is fair to the farmers.

That is why uncle ww is so depressed.

Unless and otherwise the situation is corrected and remedied by the gov, the local processors are laughing all the way to the bank while farmers are crying all the way to the bank......

Market prices for EBN is still very weak. Just sold a small portion and declined to sell the rest as prices offered are ridiculous. I think it might take several more months before we can see any decent improvement contingent upon the realization of the other agreement for raw unclean nests. This is truly the winter of discontent for swiftlet farmers.

It is the edge of technology, speed, transparency,etc but those bunch of jokers still treat us like kids to tell us lies and try to cover or monopoly the industry.. I am really speechless of current situation...