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 water heater, price and quality

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aeiou228
post Aug 13 2014, 08:54 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Aug 13 2014, 08:12 PM)
Just replace to new 1 not enough. As you see in this few case, the heater doesn't protect you at all. You don't no when is the right time to change it. Or when is the time to take your life. sweat.gif  Quite scary.

You need a third party safety device to protect you. 1 fail, still got another 1 to protect.
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You are right but still, new ones gives high percentage of safety rather than 9 years old ones. haha.
This model comes with automatic leakage testing every time i switch it on.

The double protection is to instal additional high sensitive RCCB at the on/off switch. But the device is very rare in the market and even if available, it will cost a few hundred RM.

idoblu
post Aug 13 2014, 08:56 PM

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QUOTE(Ardam @ Aug 13 2014, 08:10 PM)
can share how does a heat pump storage tank system look like?
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http://www.ecogen.com.my/heatpump.html

http://www.pecol.com.my/products.php#commercial (look under mini heat pump)

user posted image
idoblu
post Aug 13 2014, 09:01 PM

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QUOTE(aeiou228 @ Aug 13 2014, 08:42 PM)
Ah...!! Now I get you point. So, you don't understand why 80% of the Malaysian households use instant water heater instead of storage tank heaters?  But I think the reason behind it is pretty common sense isn't  ??   

BTW, When I bought the water heater, the dealer told me the Japanese couple case was due to storage tank heater. I heard only la, true or not nobody knows.
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what common sense reasons behind it? the only reason i can think of is cost, or maybe they just didn't know there are other options out there. but i see the prices of some instant ones, they can go like Rm300-400 each. Just add a bit more can get storage ones. The other reason probably is have to hack the wall to put in copper pipe but you can always not hack but install the pipe on the outside. Ugly you say? Then instant ones are no better.

The weird part is when cost is not the reason. I've seen people hack up the whole house, do 20ft extension at the back, etc....and yet they put in instant heaters. so "cost" is definitely not the reason.

Storage water heaters can be 110% safe. The seller BS you

This post has been edited by idoblu: Aug 13 2014, 09:38 PM
weikee
post Aug 13 2014, 09:06 PM

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QUOTE(idoblu @ Aug 13 2014, 07:14 PM)
I really can't understand why people are still using instant water heaters
Safety aside, don't you guys want a nice strong shower?
These instant heaters are like getting pissed on by a toddler. No I take that back. Even a toddlers piss is stronger.

It can't be the cost cause the ones with pump cost as much as a storage heaters

The ones with so-called rain shower is a joke. As for those with buildin pump, the pressure is better but the flow rate is still too low for a nice shower experience .
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Installation cost, and mixer all this not cheap.

I agreed the so call rain shower from instant water heater really a joke water pressure so darm low. And if its high (when install ground floor) the heater just can't warm the water fast enough.
idoblu
post Aug 13 2014, 09:17 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Aug 13 2014, 09:06 PM)
Installation cost, and mixer all this not cheap.

I agreed the so call rain shower from instant water heater really a joke water pressure so darm low. And if its high (when install ground floor)  the heater just can't warm the water fast enough.
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Another reason is because of low flow rate. People forget that, besides water pressure, they need good flow rate. And you cannot have good water flow rate in instant water heaters - period.

The way instant heaters works is by passing a small amount of water thru a narrow pipe which is heated up by the electric elements. If the water is too much and too fast, it wont get heated up. (just like you said, high pressure on the ground floor, it cant heat up the water fast enough).


ozak
post Aug 13 2014, 09:41 PM

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QUOTE(S'aimer @ Aug 13 2014, 08:31 PM)
Any recommendation for safety device?
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It been discuss before. You can search it under japan couple.
ozak
post Aug 13 2014, 09:55 PM

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QUOTE(aeiou228 @ Aug 13 2014, 08:54 PM)
You are right but still, new ones gives high percentage of safety rather than 9 years old ones. haha.
This model comes with automatic leakage testing every time i switch it on.

The double protection is to instal additional high sensitive RCCB at the on/off switch. But the device is very rare in the market and even if available, it will cost a few hundred RM.
*
Well, changing a new 1 can increase the safety percentage. But when yrs pass....

Don't depend too much on electronics. Those fast trip, automatic leakage testing etc inside the heater is using electronic circuit. The lifespan is short and not that reliable. Very much depend on the parts quality. If source from china, well, that have to count on luck. I don't know how many luck I have. sweat.gif

Somebody did found the double protection online with cheaper price. I did ask him to post here. So everybody can buy it.
ozak
post Aug 13 2014, 10:00 PM

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QUOTE(idoblu @ Aug 13 2014, 08:56 PM)
http://www.ecogen.com.my/heatpump.html

http://www.pecol.com.my/products.php#commercial (look under mini heat pump)

user posted image
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Have you check on the running cost? Since it run like a aircon principe (compressor, evaporator and condenser etc) and transfer the heat to tank, the bill doesn't look that cheap to me.

But this is just my assumption. Really like to see the running cost.
idoblu
post Aug 13 2014, 10:03 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Aug 13 2014, 10:00 PM)
Have you check on the running cost? Since it run like a aircon principe (compressor, evaporator and condenser etc) and transfer the heat to tank, the bill doesn't look that cheap to me.

But this is just my assumption. Really like to see the running cost.
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I dunno yet. tongue.gif
If you look at Australia, it seems heat pump is the most efficient option available for them

This post has been edited by idoblu: Aug 13 2014, 10:04 PM
aeiou228
post Aug 13 2014, 11:29 PM

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QUOTE(idoblu @ Aug 13 2014, 09:01 PM)
what common sense reasons behind it? the only reason i can think of is cost, or maybe they just didn't know there are other options out there. but i see the prices of some instant ones, they can go like Rm300-400 each. Just add a bit more can get storage ones. The other reason probably is have to hack the wall to put in copper pipe but you can always not hack but install the pipe on the outside. Ugly you say? Then instant ones are no better.

The weird part is when cost is not the reason. I've seen people hack up the whole house, do 20ft extension at the back, etc....and yet they put in instant heaters. so "cost" is definitely not the reason.

Storage water heaters can be 110% safe. The seller BS you
*
There you are, you already have some answers by yourself. To say you don't understand why people still using instant water heater instead of what you are using is because you think others not as smart as you. Well, it's all about choices, both options have pro and cons. Majority of Malaysian households choose instant water heater is because it is fast and easy to instal, cheaper start up, instant hot water, latest safety features, less electricity consumption, space limitation, don't want hacking...etc etc.

It's similar to that of top loading vs front loading argument in washing machine and Android vs iOS argument in smartphone. There will be no ending.
So one pays one's money and one takes one's choice! Can understand now ?

Btw, why storage water heater can be 110% safe ? Can you substantiate it ?


houseman
post Aug 14 2014, 12:16 AM

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Guys need some recommendation, planning to install a storage heater.which brands are better ones? How big is needes to supply 3bathrooms? ? Thanks
janson_kaniaz
post Aug 14 2014, 08:33 AM

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not sure what happened, but kinda phobia...

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
weikee
post Aug 14 2014, 08:58 AM

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QUOTE(houseman @ Aug 14 2014, 12:16 AM)
Guys need some recommendation, planning to install a storage heater.which brands are better ones? How big is needes to supply 3bathrooms? ? Thanks
*
Why not take 2 smaller storage heater, configure 1 washroom with 1 storage, and other one share with two washroom (or 3 storage with 3 washroom). This you don't need more time to heat up the water (If you are the type don't use all the Washroom all the time), and you run more efficient because it heat up smaller amount water, and one bathroom don't need that much unless you want to fill up Jacuzzi.


weikee
post Aug 14 2014, 09:05 AM

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QUOTE(aeiou228 @ Aug 13 2014, 11:29 PM)
There you are, you already have some answers by yourself. To say you don't understand why people still using instant water heater instead of what you are using is because you think others not as smart as you. Well, it's all about choices, both options have pro and cons. Majority of Malaysian households choose instant water heater is because it is fast and easy to instal, cheaper start up, instant hot water, latest safety features, less electricity consumption, space limitation, don't want hacking...etc etc.

It's similar to that of top loading vs front loading argument in washing machine and Android vs iOS argument in smartphone. There will be no ending.
So one pays one's money and one takes one's choice! Can understand now ?

Btw, why storage water heater can be 110% safe ? Can you substantiate it ?
*
Storage heater operate like electrical kettle, how frequent you read about kettle electrocuted? Even if it happen is usually the supply incoming wires but not the heating element. The Casing is also ground.

Of course all safety is only good when is properly installed.

Another precaution one can take is heat up the water before a bath, during bath switch off the supply.
Wolger
post Aug 14 2014, 09:11 AM

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QUOTE(idoblu @ Aug 13 2014, 07:14 PM)
I really can't understand why people are still using instant water heaters
Safety aside, don't you guys want a nice strong shower?
These instant heaters are like getting pissed on by a toddler. No I take that back. Even a toddlers piss is stronger.

It can't be the cost cause the ones with pump cost as much as a storage heaters

The ones with so-called rain shower is a joke. As for those with buildin pump, the pressure is better but the flow rate is still too low for a nice shower experience .
*
Yea the rain shower - macam kena conned into buying it as the flow rate so low even with AC pump..mine is Centon brand.

With that latest case, kinda worried already.
aeiou228
post Aug 14 2014, 10:58 AM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Aug 14 2014, 09:05 AM)
Storage heater operate like electrical kettle, how frequent you read about kettle electrocuted? Even if it happen is usually the supply incoming wires but not the heating element.  The Casing is also ground.

Of course all safety is only good when is properly installed.

Another precaution one can take is heat up the water before a bath, during bath switch off the supply.
*
You can't compare water heater with kettle because there is a big discrepancy between the two that you are not in direct contact with water in kettle.
As for storage tank heater, if the heating is switched on and you are using the shower via mixer, what makes it different from instant water heater ?
Yes, I agree that by switching off the heater before bath will provide 110% safety, it goes without saying. But this safety regime must be manually carry out everyday by a very discipline single user in order to achieve full proof safety. If you factor in human error of the 1st user, human mistake of the second user, the third user and so on, we definitely can't claim storage tank heater is 110% safe.

This post has been edited by aeiou228: Aug 14 2014, 12:37 PM
SUSsupersound
post Aug 14 2014, 11:49 AM

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Suddenly all want to say that instant water heater are not safe. Is funny.
Then the storage type will be also safe?
Before ruling out something, why not ask those that had incidents, how long have they use it? Did they do regular maintenance or not?
And instant water heaters are low pressure? Again another lie. Get the internal pump type and it can as strong as you want.
houseman
post Aug 14 2014, 12:11 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Aug 14 2014, 08:58 AM)
Why not take 2 smaller storage heater, configure 1 washroom with 1 storage, and other one share with two washroom (or 3 storage with 3 washroom).  This you don't need more time to heat up the water (If you are the type don't use all the Washroom all the time), and you run more efficient because it heat up smaller amount water, and one bathroom don't need that much unless you want to fill up Jacuzzi.
*
Thanks for the input, actually one bathroom is ground floor the other 2 upstairs, so how many litres will be sufficient for 2 small ones? Which brand again?
aeiou228
post Aug 14 2014, 12:34 PM

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QUOTE(janson_kaniaz @ Aug 14 2014, 08:33 AM)
not sure what happened, but kinda phobia...

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

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The Segamat case as evident from the picture, it was caused by an old instant water heater. As for Mont kiara case, I was told by people within the industry (dealer) that the mont kiara case was a storage heater. It's just hearsay, please take it with a pinch of salt. No confirmed report says it was storage heater or instant heater.
aeiou228
post Aug 14 2014, 01:38 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Aug 13 2014, 09:55 PM)
Well, changing a new 1 can increase the safety percentage. But when yrs pass....

Don't depend too much on electronics. Those fast trip, automatic leakage testing etc inside the heater is using electronic circuit. The lifespan is short and not that reliable. Very much depend on the parts quality. If source from china, well, that have to count on luck. I don't know how many luck I have.  sweat.gif

Somebody did found the double protection online with cheaper price. I did ask him to post here. So everybody can buy it.
*
Bro, if don't trust the electronic, you have to take cold shower wor, how ??

As the matter of fact, I've been looking for a branded 10mA RCCB but it's kind of scarce and the price is prohibitory expensive.

This article was dated 6th June 2014
QUOTE
KUALA LUMPUR: A TWO-decade old dormant regulation has been "resurrected" to make it mandatory for all new developments covering housing and hotels to install water heaters with enhanced safety features.
Clause 36(2) of the Electricity Regulation 1994, which falls under the Electricity Supply Act 1990, had not been enforced all the while and authorities believe it could have played a part in the spate of short circuit and electrocution incidents through the years.
Energy Commission's Department of Electrical Safety Regulation director, Abdul Rahim Ibrahim, said a directive for developers to install external residual-current circuit breakers (RCCB) with current leakage sensitivity of 10 milliampere (mA) in water heater circuits had been issued to the Real Estate and Housing Developers' Association (Rehda).


Read more: Safer water heater rule revived - General - New Straits Times http://www2.nst.com.my/nation/general/safe...0#ixzz3ALCtcmRt
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