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 water heater, price and quality

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aeiou228
post Aug 13 2014, 04:52 PM

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http://www.guangming.com.my/node/217647?tid=84

Segamat Clinic assistant electrocuted by instant water heater.

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aeiou228
post Aug 13 2014, 05:58 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Aug 13 2014, 04:54 PM)
Shit. Another case.

What brand is that?
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Can't see it clearly. The news reported that she was on the floor with hand still holding the shower head when her father in law forced open the bathroom door.

After the Japanese couple incident, I replaced all my bathrooms 9 years old instant water heaters to the latest ones with added safety feature. It will automatically check for current leakage every time I switch on the heater.

This post has been edited by aeiou228: Aug 13 2014, 06:04 PM
aeiou228
post Aug 13 2014, 07:50 PM

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QUOTE(idoblu @ Aug 13 2014, 07:14 PM)
I really can't understand why people are still using instant water heaters
Safety aside, don't you guys want a nice strong shower?
These instant heaters are like getting pissed on by a toddler. No I take that back. Even a toddlers piss is stronger.

It can't be the cost cause the ones with pump cost as much as a storage heaters

The ones with so-called rain shower is a joke. As for those with buildin pump, the pressure is better but the flow rate is still too low for a nice shower experience .
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Gee...!! You don't understand why the majority of the Malaysian households using instant water heater ???
So, are you still using the old fashion way to bath ?? brows.gif brows.gif
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aeiou228
post Aug 13 2014, 08:42 PM

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QUOTE(idoblu @ Aug 13 2014, 07:56 PM)
You haven't heard of storage tank heaters?
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Ah...!! Now I get you point. So, you don't understand why 80% of the Malaysian households use instant water heater instead of storage tank heaters? But I think the reason behind it is pretty common sense isn't ??

BTW, When I bought the water heater, the dealer told me the Japanese couple case was due to storage tank heater. I heard only la, true or not nobody knows.


aeiou228
post Aug 13 2014, 08:54 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Aug 13 2014, 08:12 PM)
Just replace to new 1 not enough. As you see in this few case, the heater doesn't protect you at all. You don't no when is the right time to change it. Or when is the time to take your life. sweat.gif  Quite scary.

You need a third party safety device to protect you. 1 fail, still got another 1 to protect.
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You are right but still, new ones gives high percentage of safety rather than 9 years old ones. haha.
This model comes with automatic leakage testing every time i switch it on.

The double protection is to instal additional high sensitive RCCB at the on/off switch. But the device is very rare in the market and even if available, it will cost a few hundred RM.

aeiou228
post Aug 13 2014, 11:29 PM

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QUOTE(idoblu @ Aug 13 2014, 09:01 PM)
what common sense reasons behind it? the only reason i can think of is cost, or maybe they just didn't know there are other options out there. but i see the prices of some instant ones, they can go like Rm300-400 each. Just add a bit more can get storage ones. The other reason probably is have to hack the wall to put in copper pipe but you can always not hack but install the pipe on the outside. Ugly you say? Then instant ones are no better.

The weird part is when cost is not the reason. I've seen people hack up the whole house, do 20ft extension at the back, etc....and yet they put in instant heaters. so "cost" is definitely not the reason.

Storage water heaters can be 110% safe. The seller BS you
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There you are, you already have some answers by yourself. To say you don't understand why people still using instant water heater instead of what you are using is because you think others not as smart as you. Well, it's all about choices, both options have pro and cons. Majority of Malaysian households choose instant water heater is because it is fast and easy to instal, cheaper start up, instant hot water, latest safety features, less electricity consumption, space limitation, don't want hacking...etc etc.

It's similar to that of top loading vs front loading argument in washing machine and Android vs iOS argument in smartphone. There will be no ending.
So one pays one's money and one takes one's choice! Can understand now ?

Btw, why storage water heater can be 110% safe ? Can you substantiate it ?


aeiou228
post Aug 14 2014, 10:58 AM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Aug 14 2014, 09:05 AM)
Storage heater operate like electrical kettle, how frequent you read about kettle electrocuted? Even if it happen is usually the supply incoming wires but not the heating element.  The Casing is also ground.

Of course all safety is only good when is properly installed.

Another precaution one can take is heat up the water before a bath, during bath switch off the supply.
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You can't compare water heater with kettle because there is a big discrepancy between the two that you are not in direct contact with water in kettle.
As for storage tank heater, if the heating is switched on and you are using the shower via mixer, what makes it different from instant water heater ?
Yes, I agree that by switching off the heater before bath will provide 110% safety, it goes without saying. But this safety regime must be manually carry out everyday by a very discipline single user in order to achieve full proof safety. If you factor in human error of the 1st user, human mistake of the second user, the third user and so on, we definitely can't claim storage tank heater is 110% safe.

This post has been edited by aeiou228: Aug 14 2014, 12:37 PM
aeiou228
post Aug 14 2014, 12:34 PM

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QUOTE(janson_kaniaz @ Aug 14 2014, 08:33 AM)
not sure what happened, but kinda phobia...

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

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The Segamat case as evident from the picture, it was caused by an old instant water heater. As for Mont kiara case, I was told by people within the industry (dealer) that the mont kiara case was a storage heater. It's just hearsay, please take it with a pinch of salt. No confirmed report says it was storage heater or instant heater.
aeiou228
post Aug 14 2014, 01:38 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Aug 13 2014, 09:55 PM)
Well, changing a new 1 can increase the safety percentage. But when yrs pass....

Don't depend too much on electronics. Those fast trip, automatic leakage testing etc inside the heater is using electronic circuit. The lifespan is short and not that reliable. Very much depend on the parts quality. If source from china, well, that have to count on luck. I don't know how many luck I have.  sweat.gif

Somebody did found the double protection online with cheaper price. I did ask him to post here. So everybody can buy it.
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Bro, if don't trust the electronic, you have to take cold shower wor, how ??

As the matter of fact, I've been looking for a branded 10mA RCCB but it's kind of scarce and the price is prohibitory expensive.

This article was dated 6th June 2014
QUOTE
KUALA LUMPUR: A TWO-decade old dormant regulation has been "resurrected" to make it mandatory for all new developments covering housing and hotels to install water heaters with enhanced safety features.
Clause 36(2) of the Electricity Regulation 1994, which falls under the Electricity Supply Act 1990, had not been enforced all the while and authorities believe it could have played a part in the spate of short circuit and electrocution incidents through the years.
Energy Commission's Department of Electrical Safety Regulation director, Abdul Rahim Ibrahim, said a directive for developers to install external residual-current circuit breakers (RCCB) with current leakage sensitivity of 10 milliampere (mA) in water heater circuits had been issued to the Real Estate and Housing Developers' Association (Rehda).


Read more: Safer water heater rule revived - General - New Straits Times http://www2.nst.com.my/nation/general/safe...0#ixzz3ALCtcmRt
aeiou228
post Aug 14 2014, 02:02 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Aug 14 2014, 01:44 PM)
Is instant water heater, my friend have a condo there.
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Scary. sweat.gif

Just to share this interesting story.
My relative has a stainless steel water tank (as seen on picture attached) installed at the roof deck. They hardly need to use the electric water heater because water from the roof deck tank is warm enough for shower even in the morning. This one definitely save energy and won't get electrocuted. rclxms.gif
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aeiou228
post Aug 14 2014, 02:12 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Aug 14 2014, 02:07 PM)
Lightning strike smile.gif especially for people like me who always speak loud to my parent biggrin.gif
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What do you mean ?? hmm.gif

add on:
Oh I got you. biggrin.gif



This post has been edited by aeiou228: Aug 14 2014, 02:17 PM
aeiou228
post Aug 14 2014, 03:00 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Aug 14 2014, 02:19 PM)
Chinese saying if you scold or talk loud to your parent lighting will strike you smile.gif

On the SS tank, if in rainy day the water also get cold. Cannot enjoy hot bath lo. When we have hot weather we don't use hot water that much.
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Well, my relative installed the SS tank at roof deck with 2 main objectives only, durable and easy access for maintenance (at second floor roof deck). To be able to to tap the sun energy was never intended and it was discovered accidentally. The water temp is lukewarm and just nice for shower. Only during prolong raining days they use instant water heater.

For more than 10 years already the SS tank still standing strong under the hot sun.
aeiou228
post Aug 16 2014, 12:58 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Aug 16 2014, 12:22 PM)
I m not phobia till like this la. He...... I still take hot shower. Just make it more safe. And don't relied on the heater safety device only. I already known many case even before this 2. Learn from people mistake.

It is not like a fridge, tv, rice cooker or aircon. This electrical applicants spoil doesn't kill you much. But heater spoil, will kill you. It doesn't tell you I m spoil. Only kill somebody than know it is spoil.

If you open up those mcb, breaker etc in your db box, you don't find any electronic thing inside this device. It use electromechanical to trip for safety. Electronic act fast. But not reliable in longterm. Guess you already play a lot with electronic gadget. You know their life term.
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"I still take hot shower. Just make it more safe"
Can you share with me how do you make it more safer just for instant water heater ?

The only additional safety precautionary measure for instant water heater that I can think of is to add a 10mA RCCB at the main power on/off switch but this device is damn prohibitory expensive.




aeiou228
post Sep 10 2014, 07:44 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Aug 17 2014, 09:19 PM)
You can check the discussion here. --> https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2954371

Than Whateva2k got find some cheap 1 from ebay. I ask him to share the site to you guys.

Or start from here --> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/H92WPA-2-POWERBR...=item3a7dcfbf48  .Google find the cheapest. This is exactly same as what I install. Just my 1 older and different look. Look nice at the wall too.  smile.gif
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Missed the Self-Test RCCB Safety road show at 1U last weekend
https://www.facebook.com/teeam.assn
http://testrccb.my/

It seems that the 10mA RCCB is getting cheaper. I've surveyed electrical shops around Puchong and found the following pricing:

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Maxguard 16A RM90 (Local brand, got Sirim)
Hager 16A RM170
GE 16A RM140

Housing RM2.00

Maxguard guy told me can install and replace the MCB inside the DB more neat and the whole length of wire from the DB all the way to water heater will be protected but electrical shop told me to install at the bathroom beside the water heater on/off switch so that user can conveniently test the RCCB more frequently. Any opinion ???

I still haven't find out what is the installation charges by the wiringman. Can a family handyman like us handles this kind of installation ??

This post has been edited by aeiou228: Sep 10 2014, 07:54 PM
aeiou228
post Sep 11 2014, 12:31 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Sep 11 2014, 08:24 AM)
Install near your bathroom switch is better. Nearer and you can test it convenient.

But the MAX guard RCCB picture is not wall mounted type. It is a DIN rail type or DB box. So you can't mount on wall like a wall socket.

Installation is not difficult. But still need some basic electrical knowledge and safety to handle.
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That's what i thought too. Near the on/off switch.

The GE RCCB I saw in the shop also this type. Hager also same.
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Yes can mount on the wall. The shop showed me the RM2.00 plastic RCCB wall housing, all covered up with a square opening at the center for switch and test button.

This post has been edited by aeiou228: Sep 11 2014, 12:37 PM
aeiou228
post Sep 12 2014, 01:16 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Sep 12 2014, 12:35 PM)
Even a new heater also cause people die. Recently sporean young guy die from new heater after change it few mth.

Somehow, I suspect there is a loophole inside the heater .
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Every think is possible, can be due to installation fault also. Not properly earthed, or maybe no fault at installation but entire earthing circuit in the house not working properly.

Some latest instant water heater comes with smart feature like line fault indicator. Auto checking of the internal circuit to detect any possible current leakage.

This user reduce the chance of possible mishap with the line fault indicator feature.
https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=65158976

To regularly check the earth circuit, add on 10mA RCCB, change new heater with better safety feature every few years is the best we can do to minimise the risks.
aeiou228
post Nov 16 2015, 05:53 PM

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Pregnant woman electrocuted by storage water heater.
http://pad.tv.sohu.com/20151116/n426557698.shtml

This post has been edited by aeiou228: Nov 16 2015, 05:55 PM
aeiou228
post Nov 16 2015, 06:02 PM

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QUOTE(zheilwane @ Nov 16 2015, 05:58 PM)
aiya cant view... may be plugin issue.

Just turn off the storage heater before showering, that would be safer
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Try view from iOS or Android.
Maybe the storage hot water not enough. Need continuos heating.
aeiou228
post May 20 2017, 12:31 AM

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QUOTE(vostro @ May 4 2017, 02:55 PM)
Hi, I am looking get a non-pump unit. Its either a Panasonic DH-3JL3 or Joven SA10e. Just wondering if anyone is using either one of it and can provide some review about it.
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Using SA10e now. The reason for choosing Joven is because of its compact size, good built in safety feature and most important of all, min water pressure of 10kPa. I think pana is 20kPa
Low min water pressure means when water pressure suddenly drop due to multiple water outlets open at the same time, you wouldn't get sudden cold shower. Another plus point is that during low water pressure shower, the lowest temperature settings just warm to touch and wouldn't burn you with scalding hot water.
aeiou228
post Nov 29 2019, 11:08 AM

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Just to share my experience with Panasonic water heater with Push On/Off button. Twice in a row, same problem happens. It was all good when new but the on/off button start wearing out 2 - 3 years later. The problems are, you need to press the button several times to find a sweet spot in order to make the valve stay open and when push to off, water still leak out from shower head. Now I avoid water heater with push on/off button at all cost.
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