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 Are property prices going to up further? V3

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godutch
post Oct 30 2011, 05:54 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Oct 30 2011, 09:33 AM)
There is difference between Malaysia and Spain.

Malaysia has high saving rate, which is the strong backdrop supporting point.

Also, Malaysia doesn't have unemployment issue if one is skillful enough, one shouldn't have problem to find the job in Malaysia at current and near future, in fact, most factories are short of personnel across, from operators level, technician and engineers.
*
m'sians on AVERAGE have RELATIVEly higher saving rate, but what is more relevant is ARE the so called investors (speculators in disguise) have high saving rate??? they always leverage and borrow to the max ,no ?

as far as i know, rural people generally don't borrow, they build their houses using cash on their own land. and is i am not mistaken, the savng rate includes money that we have with EPF where the large part of it can only be withdrawn after we retire biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by godutch: Oct 30 2011, 05:55 PM
humble_tot
post Oct 31 2011, 12:00 AM

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QUOTE(ericpires @ Oct 28 2011, 01:33 PM)
China Property Prices Fall

Should hit Msia anytime soon
*
Interesting... let's wait & see.
cherroy
post Oct 31 2011, 12:39 AM

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QUOTE(GangHo @ Oct 30 2011, 04:40 PM)
Dear Cherroy,

Malaysian has high saving rate. Interested in this topic, any article that I can read?

I agree generally that we shouldn't have any problem as far as white collar jobs are concerned due to our low population.

Earlier, there are concern that construction field might face problem if the blue collar foreign workers leave our country. Any view on this?
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It is no secret, high saving rate is part of Asian culture.
Now with modern or newer generation, this has somehow deteoriate a lot.

You cannot escape from foreign workers.

It is naive to think that can simply kick all out the foreign workers to restore the job for local, and resulted local can get high pay.
This doesn't work.
Ask a fresh graduate earn Rm1500-2500 with a diploma/degree.
Even the construction company now willing to pay Rm3000 for the construction job,
the graduate willing to do the job?
the graduate has the ability to do the job?
the construction company dare to give the job the graduate?

No matter how, in a economy, someone always needs to do those tough and dirty job one.
With now, newer generation has become more pampered (I don't mean to generalise all, just in reality, a lot), almost impossible to tell them to do those job.
They may will to do the sales job that earn Rm1500, instead hard and dirty job that can earn RM3000.
Some even worst that I came across, choose to sit at home, because the reason "it doesn't worthwhile to do a job that pay Rm1500-1800, I better off sitting at home).

Sorry for OT too much.


Added on October 31, 2011, 12:53 am
QUOTE(godutch @ Oct 30 2011, 05:54 PM)
m'sians on AVERAGE have RELATIVEly higher saving rate, but what is more relevant is ARE the so called investors (speculators in disguise) have high saving rate??? they always leverage and borrow to the max ,no ?

as far as i know, rural people generally don't borrow, they build their houses using cash on their own land. and is i am not mistaken, the savng rate includes money that we have with EPF where the large part of it can only be withdrawn after we retire  biggrin.gif
*
We don't know how many % of current property buyers are actually full or over-leveraged speculators.

But at least our banking giving loan time, is not as relax as subprime. This is the crucial part of preventing a big collapse of properties.
May be late few year is more relax than previous, but it is not the like subprime, can easily get a house loan if you wish to.

Even out of the speculators, some may come from rich background, which can reduce the impact of fire-sale.
Also, we have a lot of cash rich company around that I had seen they bought a lot of properties to hold, to rent/invest to generate income, instead cash money that sitting in banks that earn pathetic interest rate.

Properties bubbles and big collapse always associated too lenient practice of giving loan previously.

As you said, rural people generally don't borrow, then already a big plus, and many more blue collar people cannot borrow, as banks don't want to give them a loan, which is another plus point.

Properties price escalating in not limited to Malaysia, it is across the world (apart that suffer big bubbles prior 2008), due to cheap liquidity, and massive QE pumping, whereby too much money flowing around the globe (thanks to globalisation doh.gif ), resulted commodities price stay at high elevated level, as well as nowhere to park the money, and many flow to properties sector, as properties sector is at least can hedge some inflation risk.
On top of that, speculators and flippers join in further to push up the properties price further.

Properties correction, I would say big possibility, but collapse, I don't think so or high probability.
Remember we are facing inflation problem, not deflation, which is also part of factor that supporting properties price.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Oct 31 2011, 12:53 AM
godutch
post Oct 31 2011, 09:43 AM

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Added on October 31, 2011, 12:53 am

We don't know how many % of current property buyers are actually full or over-leveraged speculators.

But at least our banking giving loan time, is not as relax as subprime. This is the crucial part of preventing a big collapse of properties.
May be late few year is more relax than previous, but it is not the like subprime, can easily get a house loan if you wish to.

Even out of the speculators, some may come from rich background, which can reduce the impact of fire-sale.
Also, we have a lot of cash rich company around that I had seen they bought a lot of properties to hold, to rent/invest to generate income, instead cash money that sitting in banks that earn pathetic interest rate.

Properties bubbles and big collapse always associated too lenient practice of giving loan previously.

Properties correction, I would say big possibility, but collapse, I don't think so or high probability.
Remember we are facing inflation problem, not deflation, which is also part of factor that supporting properties price.
*

[/quote]


Dont just listen to all what bankers and the central banks are saying. Are you 100% sure there's no subprime in M'sia? all these subprime blaming news only came out AFTER the market collapsed. people are good at pointing fingers but never learn from experience, that's why technical analysis works, history repeats itself.

What i am saying is that kampung people's savings were also taken into consideration in the calculation of the AVERAGE Msian saving rate and i don't deny the fact that they are Rich speculators around us, but many are not as well. We just need a single digit default to have the prices fall. wink.gif

This post has been edited by godutch: Oct 31 2011, 09:47 AM
AVFAN
post Oct 31 2011, 10:02 AM

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QUOTE(godutch @ Oct 31 2011, 09:43 AM)
Dont just listen to all what bankers and the central banks are saying. Are you 100% sure there's no subprime in M'sia? all these subprime blaming news only came out AFTER the market collapsed. people are good at pointing fingers but never learn from experience, that's why technical analysis works, history repeats itself.

What i am saying is that kampung people's savings were also taken into consideration in the calculation of the AVERAGE Msian saving rate and i don't deny the fact that they are Rich speculators around us, but many are not as well. We just need a single digit default to have the prices fall.  wink.gif
*
i agree with this, actually knowing many who borrowed way out of line. banks were very relaxed 2-3 yrs ago, less so now.

bolehsians savings rate high... bank negara and gomen surely sells this, no problem, can take more debt. savings rate WAS high, but may have become somewhat of a myth now. not so high anymore as wages stagnated and spending/borrowing increased. if bolehsians are such great savers, there wouldn't be such a dramatic increase in household debt in the last decade. read:
http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/breakin....mohamed-idris/

before iceland, ireland, greece, spain, usa (and others) got into their prop crashes, all those gomens and the people believed they are different, careful, prudent, clever - will never crash. won't be that different here. tongue.gif

This post has been edited by AVFAN: Oct 31 2011, 10:05 AM
cherroy
post Oct 31 2011, 10:31 AM

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QUOTE(godutch @ Oct 31 2011, 09:43 AM)

Added on October 31, 2011, 12:53 am
Dont just listen to all what bankers and the central banks are saying. Are you 100% sure there's no subprime in M'sia? all these subprime blaming news only came out AFTER the market collapsed. people are good at pointing fingers but never learn from experience, that's why technical analysis works, history repeats itself.

What i am saying is that kampung people's savings were also taken into consideration in the calculation of the AVERAGE Msian saving rate and i don't deny the fact that they are Rich speculators around us, but many are not as well. We just need a single digit default to have the prices fall.  wink.gif
*
Subprime loan is exist way before the market collapsed, this is known.

It is easy to try out whether we have subprime loan or not.
Just ask a few friend with little income, go to bank to apply for housing loan, see what is the respond.

I don't deny properties price is escalating too fast due to many speculators, but to say subprime loan work in Malaysia is somehow overly.
Some more conservative banks are not giving full loan/valuation on properties.
For eg. even market price of a property is 800k, bank value at 750k only.

QUOTE(AVFAN @ Oct 31 2011, 10:02 AM)
i agree with this, actually knowing many who borrowed way out of line. banks were very relaxed 2-3 yrs ago, less so now.

bolehsians savings rate high... bank negara and gomen surely sells this, no problem, can take more debt. savings rate WAS high, but may have become somewhat of a myth now. not so high anymore as wages stagnated and spending/borrowing increased. if bolehsians are such great savers, there wouldn't be such a dramatic increase in household debt in the last decade. read:
http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/breakin....mohamed-idris/

before iceland, ireland, greece, spain, usa (and others) got into their prop crashes, all those gomens and the people believed they are different, careful, prudent, clever - will never crash. won't be that different here. tongue.gif
*
Yes, banks are more relaxed, household loan is climbing to alarming rate already, mainly due too much speculation on property around, as every property bought you need to accompany with loan, except those buy cash one. Also too many easy payment scheme and personal loan around.

Speculators suffer, yes will cause the property price plunging as this is good for healthy correction. Actually this is good to ditch out speculator in property market.
But to say property sector is heading for collapse because of speculators around, is a bit overly, my opinion only.

Drian
post Oct 31 2011, 10:43 AM

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QUOTE(godutch @ Oct 29 2011, 04:59 PM)
it is interesting to see those so called investors (speculators) to always tryng to lure others into buying property.

they always claim that prices of m'sian properties are well below prices of properties in other markets (like china, hk and s'pore) so m'sian property prices can only go up.

but when news on drop of property prices in china came out for example, they are so quick to jump and say M'sian property market is DIFFERENT from other markets. m'sian properties will continue to up up up up up up and forever up ...

interesting huh? whistling.gif
*
Aiyah, their opinions will change to whatever benefits them. And when they're wrong , they will just keep quiet.



cyjh
post Oct 31 2011, 11:19 AM

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i have been getting this response lately from property agent,
out of 10 i called there 8 of them with this answer.

they advert in iproperty or newspaper for let say rm730k, when i called they say this one is already sold but they have another unit for rm780k.
but the thing is i have been monitoring the unit for few months and it have not been sold.

some advertise in the morning sold in an hour but they have other unit with higher price.

anyone have similar problem.
TSsampool
post Oct 31 2011, 11:28 AM

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QUOTE(cyjh @ Oct 31 2011, 12:19 PM)
i have been getting this response lately from property agent,
out of 10 i called there 8 of them with this answer.

they advert in iproperty or newspaper for let say rm730k, when i called they say this one is already sold but they have another unit for rm780k.
but the thing is i have been monitoring the unit for few months and it have not been sold.

some advertise in the morning sold in an hour but they have other unit with higher price.

anyone have similar problem.
*
The agent market is too competitive now with every agent also try to cari lubang here and there...

This post has been edited by sampool: Oct 31 2011, 11:30 AM
mIssfROGY
post Oct 31 2011, 02:35 PM

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QUOTE(cyjh @ Oct 31 2011, 11:19 AM)
i have been getting this response lately from property agent,
out of 10 i called there 8 of them with this answer.

they advert in iproperty or newspaper for let say rm730k, when i called they say this one is already sold but they have another unit for rm780k.
but the thing is i have been monitoring the unit for few months and it have not been sold.

some advertise in the morning sold in an hour but they have other unit with higher price.

anyone have similar problem.
*
yeahh.....i kena this twice! Called up agent, ad at 420k....but when meet up, show me a few units but all priced at wayyyyyyy above 420k and tell me 420k oredi sold :/ wasted my time.....so i lazy de wanna call anymore. This market is worse than share market nowdays......go up within secs!
kh8668
post Oct 31 2011, 03:01 PM

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user posted image

http://www.iproperty.com.my/news/3780/Rate...y-be-next-focus


wwwcomment
post Oct 31 2011, 03:08 PM

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QUOTE(mIssfROGY @ Oct 31 2011, 02:35 PM)
yeahh.....i kena this twice! Called up agent, ad at 420k....but when meet up, show me a few units but all priced at wayyyyyyy above 420k and tell me 420k oredi sold :/ wasted my time.....so i lazy de wanna call anymore. This market is worse than share market nowdays......go up within secs!
*
haaaaaaahaha

imagine u r an agent and selling a condo unit
ur seller says he want to sell his unit for at least $350k

but when u check iproperty,
u saw other agents put price as low as $300k for other units

so u put $350k in ur advertisement?
u wont get much call

of course to attract more calls
u need to put at least on par with other agents which is $300k
this is to attract calls
then when ppl call, only u say:
sorry that one sold liao
very laku laa
i hv another one selling $350k
u interested?


kh8668
post Oct 31 2011, 03:14 PM

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QUOTE(godutch @ Oct 30 2011, 05:54 PM)
m'sians on AVERAGE have RELATIVEly higher saving rate, but what is more relevant is ARE the so called investors (speculators in disguise) have high saving rate??? they always leverage and borrow to the max ,no ?

as far as i know, rural people generally don't borrow, they build their houses using cash on their own land. and is i am not mistaken, the savng rate includes money that we have with EPF where the large part of it can only be withdrawn after we retire  biggrin.gif
*
unles this is fake info


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kochin
post Oct 31 2011, 03:58 PM

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QUOTE(kh8668 @ Oct 31 2011, 03:14 PM)
unles this is fake info
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cool.
does that means averagely each malaysian (assuming 30mil population) have around rm450/30=rm15k in the bank? including infants and elderly person. rclxms.gif

Phoeni_142
post Oct 31 2011, 04:09 PM

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there's a pareto involved i'm sure.

the top 1% highest net worth individuals probably control 30 to 35% of individual deposits in the banking system.
yeowa
post Oct 31 2011, 04:19 PM

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http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/litee/b...-economy-bites/

ermm.... starting to bite?
katijar
post Oct 31 2011, 04:43 PM

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QUOTE(yeowa @ Oct 31 2011, 04:19 PM)
office and retail.... residencial might be next?
Drian
post Oct 31 2011, 04:51 PM

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QUOTE(wwwcomment @ Oct 31 2011, 03:08 PM)
haaaaaaahaha

imagine u r an agent and selling a condo unit
ur seller says he want to sell his unit for at least $350k

but when u check iproperty,
u saw other agents put price as low as $300k for other units

so u put $350k in ur advertisement?
u wont get much call

of course to attract more calls
u need to put at least on par with other agents which is $300k
this is to attract calls
then when ppl call, only u say:
sorry that one sold liao
very laku laa
i hv another one selling $350k
u interested?
*
I really hated that... call is ok but there was this agent who only told me when i visited the house and then proceed to show me another more expensive unit which I had no interest on. Wasted so much of my time travelling there and I told him straight forward not to waste my time anymore. Never used his service after that.

hazairi
post Oct 31 2011, 05:01 PM

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Like I said million times already, be prepared guys.. smile.gif

godutch
post Oct 31 2011, 05:59 PM

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QUOTE(kh8668 @ Oct 31 2011, 03:14 PM)
unles this is fake info
*
Dont try to mislead.

My Question was: How many so called Investors (speculators) have High savings?

if you care to read my posts properly, u wud noticed i never denied Malaysians have relatively high saving rate whistling.gif


Added on October 31, 2011, 6:02 pm
QUOTE(katijar @ Oct 31 2011, 04:43 PM)
office and retail.... residencial might be next?
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rclxms.gif just be patient to wait for those projects launched in 2009-2010 to be completed next year and 2013, we shall see how sustainable is it. biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by godutch: Oct 31 2011, 06:02 PM

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