thing is, you guys always say you want girls like that, and when you actually do meet one, she's too "aggressive" for you because you want a submissive woman that doesn't give you shit.

Sorry, either aggressive and independent, or submissive and clingy. Pick one.

thing is, you guys always say you want girls like that, and when you actually do meet one, she's too "aggressive" for you because you want a submissive woman that doesn't give you shit.

Sorry, either aggressive and independent, or submissive and clingy. Pick one.

False dichotomy. I choose independent yet loving. 

both are capable of loving - I never said they weren't capable of loving Now pick one: indepedent and aggressive, or submissive and clingy.

Independent doesn't mean the person will be aggressive, it just means the person isn't clingy. Just because a person is clingy doesn't mean a person is submissive either, you can be clingy and authoritative.

and neither are any of those attributes binary, its just a gradient, and the extreme of either side ain't healthy.

lol girls like myself are unattractive to most Malaysian guys. Wonder why?

I've met a lot of clingy people, and they are submissive because clingy people can't stand to be alone and therefore, cater to their partner's every whim and fancy.

lol girls like myself are unattractive to most Malaysian guys. Wonder why?

I've met a lot of clingy people, and they are submissive because clingy people can't stand to be alone and therefore, cater to their partner's every whim and fancy.

That's because you're outspoken, you can speak your mind which is not "attractive" for women to do in asian culture. Consider yourself more western in that aspect.

I know clingy people who are not submissive, just because there is some correlation, doesn't mean that one attribute is opposite of the other.

Ironically (though unsurprisingly), in a thread that is titled "quit whining already" is filled with women whining about guys whining about women.

Disclaimer: This is a generalization and possibly a stereotype ... but these are all based on truths at some point.

This is an article about "Nice Guys" vs "Jerks", the terms used by people who like to talk about women walking all over "nice guys" and preferring to date "jerks". I don't know how much clearer you want this to be. Using "nice guys" is NOT misleading. There are the insecure "nice guys" and the "genuine nice guys"

I also NEVER claimed this to be my own - http://www.heartless-b****es.com/rants/nic.../niceguys.shtml

Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS

You hear it all the time: "He was such a NICE Guy, and she's such a Heartless b**** for dumping him."

I get letters from self-professed Nice Guys, complaining that women must WANT to be treated like shit, because THEY, the "Nice Guy" have failed repeatedly in relationships. This is akin to the false logic that "Whales are mammals. Whales live in the sea. Therefore, all mammals live in the sea."

If you have one bad relationship after another, the only common denominator is YOU. Think about it.

What's wrong with Nice Guys? The biggest problem is that most Nice Guys ™ are hideously insecure. They are so anxious to be liked and loved that they do things for other people to gain acceptance and attention, rather than for the simply pleasure of giving. You never know if a Nice Guy really likes you for who you are, or if he has glommed onto you out of desperation because you actually paid some kind of attention to him.

Nice Guys exude insecurity -- a big red target for the predators of the world. There are women out there who are "users" -- just looking for a sucker to take advantage of. Users home-in on "Nice Guys", stroke their egos, take them for a ride, add a notch to their belts, and move on. It's no wonder so many Nice Guys complain about women being horrible, when so often the kind of woman that gets attracted to them is the lowest form of life...

Self-confident, caring, decent-hearted women find "Nice Guys" to be too clingy, self-abasing, and insecure.

Nice Guys go overboard. They bring roses to a "lets get together for coffee" date. They try to buy her affections with presents and fancy things. They think they know about romance, but their timing is all wrong, and they either come-on too strong, too hard and too fast, OR, they are so shy and unassertive, that they hang around pretending to be "friends", in the hope that somehow, someway, they will get the courage up to ask her out for a "date".

They are so desperate to please that they put aside their own needs, and place the object of their desire on a pedestal. Instead of appreciating her, they worship her. We are only human, and pedestals are narrow, confining places to be -- not to mention the fact that we tend to fall off of them.

They cling to her, and want to be "one" with her for fear that if she is out of sight, she may disappear or become attracted to someone else. A Nice Guy often has trouble with emotional intimacy, because he believes that if she learns about the REAL person inside, she will no longer love him.

Nice Guys are always asking HER to make the decisions. They think it's being equitable, but it puts an unfair burden of responsibility on her, and gives him the opportunity to blame her if the decision was an unwise one.

Nice Guys rarely speak up when something bothers them, and rarely state clearly what it is they want, need and expect. They fear that any kind of conflict might spell the end of the relationship. Instead of compromising and negotiating, they repeatedly "give in". When she doesn't appreciate their sacrifice, they will complain that, "Everything I did, I did for her.", as if this somehow elevates them to the status of martyrs. A woman doesn't want a martyr. She wants an equal, caring, adult partner.

Nice Guys think that they will never meet anyone as special as she is. They use their adoration as a foundation for claiming that "no one will ever love her as much as I do." Instead of being a profound statement of their devotion, this is a subtle, but nasty insult. It is akin to saying to her: "You are a difficult person, and only *I* can ever truly love you, so be thankful I'm here."

The nice guy -needs- to believe that he is the best person for the object of his desires, because otherwise his insecurities will overrun him with jealousies and fear. The truth of the matter is that there are many people out there who can be a good match for her. We rarely stop loving people we truly care about. Even if we no longer continue the relationship, the feelings will continue... But love isn't mutually exclusive. We can (and do) love many people in our lives, and romantic love is really no different. Though he may love her immensely, there will likely be other people who have loved her just as much in her past, and will love her just as much in the future. The irony of it all is: "Who would want to go out with someone who was inherently unlovable anyways?"

More than loving the woman in his life, a Nice Guy NEEDS her. "She is my Life, my only source of happiness..." YECH! What kind of a burden is that to place on her? That SHE has to be responsible for YOUR happiness? Get a grip!

Another mistake Nice Guys make is to go after "hard luck" cases. They deliberately pick women with neuroses, problems, and personality disorders, because Nice Guys are "helpers". A Nice Guy thinks that by "helping" this woman, it will make him a better, more lovable person. He thinks it will give him a sense of accomplishment, and that she will appreciate and love him more, for all his efforts and sacrifice. He is usually disappointed by the results.

This ultimately boils down to the fact that Nice Guys don't like themselves. Is it any wonder women don't like them? In order to truly love someone else, you must first love yourself. Too often Nice Guys mistake obsession for "love".

Get this Guys: INSECURITY ISN'T SEXY. IT'S A TURNOFF.

You don't have to be an ego-inflated, arrogant jerk. You just have to LIKE yourself. You have to know what you want out of life, and go after it. Only then will you be attractive to the kind of woman with whom a long-term relationship is possible.
~~~

And the whole LOT of you, with a few exceptions, disgust me with your insecurities.
Grow up.

lol girls like myself are unattractive to most Malaysian guys. Wonder why?

Ironically (though unsurprisingly), in a thread that is titled "quit whining already" is filled with women whining about guys whining about women.

face problem. yes we are shallow. too bad for you.

Ironically (though unsurprisingly), in a thread that is titled "quit whining already" is filled with women whining about guys whining about women.

it's simple guys....
u get laid, u wont whine, end of story.

"Mr. Nice Guys" in relationship always meks the mistake of...."i respect her decision" or "it's against her/my religion" & "v will safe for marriage".

u gotta try to laid ur gf.....be a "Mr. Naughty"
den the day u got dump (if dat shall happen), u'll hav less regret, & u wont whine.

I don't think the article itself is whining though ... it has more of an air of "get over yourself because I already have"
boo hoo?