I posted this because I believe there needs to be a balance...     

this post its really spot on.. its actually describing my situation now.. i am very into the girl and i think my actions has make her afraid of me. i actually woke up after reading this post and i am disgusted by my own insecurities. and decided to change. i hope the girl will notice .

btw its actually really hard. i try not to over texting her by doing something i like. but its just too hard. i still miss her time to time. maybe need more time

Spunkberry: "Nice Guys go overboard. They bring roses to a "lets get together for coffee" date. They try to buy her affections with presents and fancy things. They think they know about romance, but their timing is all wrong, and they either come-on too strong, too hard and too fast, OR, they are so shy and unassertive, that they hang around pretending to be "friends", in the hope that somehow, someway, they will get the courage up to ask her out for a "date".

Great article. For those unable to spare 5 mins of reading just do your usual TLDR comment as a reply.

I would like to expand on this. I know a lot of dating/love connoisseurs try to find the heart of the issue. This is one good example. But the values behind them are also pivotal.

For instance, we know there are girls that get attracted to bad boys. This is the archetype which I'm not going to argue the definition on. However, most would agree they exhibit courage, audacity, boldness and risk taking. Now we often hear guys wonder why girls like bad boys. Honestly, when I was younger I wondered as well. Why do they like drunkards, smokers, even some extreme examples where girls fall in LOVE with serial murderers (Ted Bundy was drowning in pussy).

The truth is-it's not a particular set of behaviors that girls like but the underlying ones which attract them. Confidence is one of them. My friend once said-badboys break the rules. True. Some to a higher degree than others. Now ask yourself, can a non-confident person break rules? No. Can a coward voice an opinion against the crowd? No.  So this confidence quality is exhibited through their action. Unfortunately, some actions are NOT that great-street fights, abuse, etc-regardless women cannot differentiate the ACTION. They can only differentiate the VALUE.


Meaning, that if an action is carried out as a huge display of confidence-regardless of it was a good action (firefighting) or bad action (arson)-as long as it took balls to do-their panties get wet.

So by that basis-you can be a decent stand up person while being confident-if you can exhibit those qualities through other good actions. Entrepreneurs, for example also display confidence by breaking the the status quo and fighting incumbents.
My next point
As spunk said, nice guys fall into two categories. The"cowards" and the "creeps".

First I will differentiate a man from a boy. I don't wanna go badboy vs nice guy or alpha vs beta. It's a bit too fictional and guys fall into so many points of the spectrum. This article is not me recommending you to be as asshole. I was in that pit once, and sure I pulled some chicks, but you can be a confident standup guy with princely qualities while still getting the girl or playing the field whatever the goal may be. Do not degenerate. Have faith. Grow to be a man, not an asshole.

The boy (coward)
Example:
Sees a girl he likes IRL. Too afraid to talk to her.
Knows a girl within friend circle. Too afraid to approach because it might cause awkwardness later if she rejects.
Sees a girl on tinder. Doesn't want to swipe her. Gets swiped-just says hi or nothing at all.

The man
Example:
Sees a girl IRL. Finds out how to speak to her. Either try to relate through a setting (if bookstore ask about new reads) or just go direct. This does NOT guarantee him anything. That is not the point. The point is he approached.
Knows a girl within friend circle. Asks her out-no friends just them. Define it as a date. Fuck awkward. Deal with it later. Kiss close within first date (or more if it's mutual). No apologies. If she says it's too fast. Say-I think it was just right on time. If she doesn't kiss, you know you failed. Suck it up and move on. A man does not need to succeed. He just needs to pursue. He enjoys success but learns and moves on from failures.
Swipes girls he likes on tinder. Do not just say hi. Say anything but hi-it's a kiss of death. Unless you're a 10/10.

The boy (creep)
Example:
Sees a girl he likes IRL. In restaurant :Buys her an entire meal without introducing himself later or after. In bookstore: tells the register to put book on his tab. Creepy as hell. Can you imagine if you went somewhere and ppl started paying for shit without you knowing who it was.
Knows a girl within friend circle. Finds out her address. Shows up one evening with 10,000 roses. Or, during normal bbq gathering-suddenly confesses to her his love in front of everyone.
Sees a girl on tinder. Swipes. Says hi. Says hi 10 more times.

Now the creep and the man are quite similar-in that they both APPROACHED a girl.


So if you are a creep, I at least give you some credit in that you have balls. You now just have to recalibrate your approch. Drastically.

If you like a girl. Be bold, approach her, and make it clear what you want. This is not you making friends. You already have enough friends. This is a date. This is a move. This is me showing that I desire you.

BUT-add an additional line of thought. You are not the only girl.. The creep does what he does because he can't bear to let go of this girl. So he brings out all the big guns-500 dollar dinner dates, roses, songs, jazz, candles-the whole shebang.

A man-charms and romances-but in a more delicate way. I agree-what the defining line is quite blur. Maybe spunk can add some input into this.


This is mine: Any gifts on the first date is unnecessary. Don't do movies or michelin dining either. At the same time-don't bring her to the crappiest longkang place in town to show you don't give a fcuk.

Pizza and soda. Rustic italian. Jap. These are good. The rest is really you. I don't really like to use fancy contraptions on first date. Make it a challenge so that you are the best part of the night. Not the food, not the circus, not the band, not your perfume, not your car. You. A date must have three things-food, entertainment and affection. Get the food taken care of - nice quaint place not too over the top with quality food.

The entertainment and affection should fall wholly on you. Even if Louis CK, Ed Sheeran and Big Bang was performing-you should steal the show before the night is over. That is your challenge. Accept it. Start with entertainment then slowly roll into affection. - Judith Martin.

And finally: Take rejection. Yes, not every girl will fall for every guy. Whoever believes this shit is just trying to think that way to get more girls through some NLP practice to boost his inner mental game. But no guy can get every girl. None. Some like Hugh Jackman, some like Hanks, some like Depp-go figure. It's just like how I wont' fcuk any woman. Neither will I get into a relationship with any woman and neither should you. That is okay . Life is too short to sleep and date 3.5 billion females.

A creep will not take rejection lightly. He will constantly pine for affection and ask for second chances while begging and pleading his way through. A man accepts it. He moves on. That's it.

can this be summed up into a sentence like " love yourself before you love others" ?

Disclaimer: This is a generalization and possibly a stereotype ... but these are all based on truths at some point.

This is an article about "Nice Guys" vs "Jerks", the terms used by people who like to talk about women walking all over "nice guys" and preferring to date "jerks". I don't know how much clearer you want this to be. Using "nice guys" is NOT misleading. There are the insecure "nice guys" and the "genuine nice guys"

I also NEVER claimed this to be my own - http://www.heartless-b****es.com/rants/nic.../niceguys.shtml

Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS

You hear it all the time: "He was such a NICE Guy, and she's such a Heartless b**** for dumping him."

I get letters from self-professed Nice Guys, complaining that women must WANT to be treated like shit, because THEY, the "Nice Guy" have failed repeatedly in relationships. This is akin to the false logic that "Whales are mammals. Whales live in the sea. Therefore, all mammals live in the sea."

If you have one bad relationship after another, the only common denominator is YOU. Think about it.

What's wrong with Nice Guys? The biggest problem is that most Nice Guys ™ are hideously insecure. They are so anxious to be liked and loved that they do things for other people to gain acceptance and attention, rather than for the simply pleasure of giving. You never know if a Nice Guy really likes you for who you are, or if he has glommed onto you out of desperation because you actually paid some kind of attention to him.

Nice Guys exude insecurity -- a big red target for the predators of the world. There are women out there who are "users" -- just looking for a sucker to take advantage of. Users home-in on "Nice Guys", stroke their egos, take them for a ride, add a notch to their belts, and move on. It's no wonder so many Nice Guys complain about women being horrible, when so often the kind of woman that gets attracted to them is the lowest form of life...

Self-confident, caring, decent-hearted women find "Nice Guys" to be too clingy, self-abasing, and insecure.

Nice Guys go overboard. They bring roses to a "lets get together for coffee" date. They try to buy her affections with presents and fancy things. They think they know about romance, but their timing is all wrong, and they either come-on too strong, too hard and too fast, OR, they are so shy and unassertive, that they hang around pretending to be "friends", in the hope that somehow, someway, they will get the courage up to ask her out for a "date".

They are so desperate to please that they put aside their own needs, and place the object of their desire on a pedestal. Instead of appreciating her, they worship her. We are only human, and pedestals are narrow, confining places to be -- not to mention the fact that we tend to fall off of them.

They cling to her, and want to be "one" with her for fear that if she is out of sight, she may disappear or become attracted to someone else. A Nice Guy often has trouble with emotional intimacy, because he believes that if she learns about the REAL person inside, she will no longer love him.

Nice Guys are always asking HER to make the decisions. They think it's being equitable, but it puts an unfair burden of responsibility on her, and gives him the opportunity to blame her if the decision was an unwise one.

Nice Guys rarely speak up when something bothers them, and rarely state clearly what it is they want, need and expect. They fear that any kind of conflict might spell the end of the relationship. Instead of compromising and negotiating, they repeatedly "give in". When she doesn't appreciate their sacrifice, they will complain that, "Everything I did, I did for her.", as if this somehow elevates them to the status of martyrs. A woman doesn't want a martyr. She wants an equal, caring, adult partner.

Nice Guys think that they will never meet anyone as special as she is. They use their adoration as a foundation for claiming that "no one will ever love her as much as I do." Instead of being a profound statement of their devotion, this is a subtle, but nasty insult. It is akin to saying to her: "You are a difficult person, and only *I* can ever truly love you, so be thankful I'm here."

The nice guy -needs- to believe that he is the best person for the object of his desires, because otherwise his insecurities will overrun him with jealousies and fear. The truth of the matter is that there are many people out there who can be a good match for her. We rarely stop loving people we truly care about. Even if we no longer continue the relationship, the feelings will continue... But love isn't mutually exclusive. We can (and do) love many people in our lives, and romantic love is really no different. Though he may love her immensely, there will likely be other people who have loved her just as much in her past, and will love her just as much in the future. The irony of it all is: "Who would want to go out with someone who was inherently unlovable anyways?"

More than loving the woman in his life, a Nice Guy NEEDS her. "She is my Life, my only source of happiness..." YECH! What kind of a burden is that to place on her? That SHE has to be responsible for YOUR happiness? Get a grip!

Another mistake Nice Guys make is to go after "hard luck" cases. They deliberately pick women with neuroses, problems, and personality disorders, because Nice Guys are "helpers". A Nice Guy thinks that by "helping" this woman, it will make him a better, more lovable person. He thinks it will give him a sense of accomplishment, and that she will appreciate and love him more, for all his efforts and sacrifice. He is usually disappointed by the results.

This ultimately boils down to the fact that Nice Guys don't like themselves. Is it any wonder women don't like them? In order to truly love someone else, you must first love yourself. Too often Nice Guys mistake obsession for "love".

Get this Guys: INSECURITY ISN'T SEXY. IT'S A TURNOFF.

You don't have to be an ego-inflated, arrogant jerk. You just have to LIKE yourself. You have to know what you want out of life, and go after it. Only then will you be attractive to the kind of woman with whom a long-term relationship is possible.
~~~

And the whole LOT of you, with a few exceptions, disgust me with your insecurities.
Grow up.