So it will only work if you believe because all in the head, can't help to wonder what my previous life did that made me a non believer.

Gauthama Buddha emphasize practice rather than believe, that's why he question the practice of Brahmanism when he was young and determine to leave his wife and children to learn the answer himself, pretty irresponsible huh . So its completely OK that you don't believe in Buddhism, True Buddhism is not about how much you know, how logical your theory or how many followers you have, its how you practice and you are responsible for your self. Four Noble Truth state that Life is Suffering, disregard how good your karma is, that's why Buddhism focus on escaping from karma rather than getting a good karma.

There is a distinction between Traditional Buddha Teaching and nowadays Major Buddhism belief, they are becoming more like monothism such as Christian and Islam (no offense ), practice and meditation had been replace by propaganda and threat like "if you eat meat you'll end up in hell" this kind of bullshxt, for the sake of gaining more followers.

This post has been edited by bashlyner: Sep 19 2011, 06:29 PM

You see what happen when religion are being twisted? Even believer don't bother about Karma.

Actually I do bother about karma, just that I don't simply interpret how karma work, it's like trying to tell people how God look like, it will never be an accurate answer. The best way to get good karma is to be a good person and learn to control our own desire, nothing more!

So why some Buddhist keep saying this is karma that is karma as if they are better than Gauthama Buddha ? They either don't fully understand the concept of karma or as you said, they twisted Buddha word for their personal gain。

This post has been edited by bashlyner: Sep 20 2011, 12:01 AM

I think I get what you mean. You mean it's something like account balance? As long as you do good more than bad, you will get positive net?

I think, it works in a different way. For the bad deeds, you will get bad returns parable to what you did bad. Your good deed does not negate your bad deed, but it goes the same vice versa i.e Your good deed will be returned proportionally to your good deed. It's like you have two accounts which one cannot compensate the other. Perhaps, even each deed (good or bad) might even be returned separately.

If you think you can bear with the consequence of the small bad deeds you did, than fine. But what if the bad deeds returned simultaneously that it become one life-changing negative event?

Btw, I'm not buddhist. So my understanding of karma might be wrong.

That's the buddhism I subscribe to.

I don't believe we gain the truth simply by following, blindly others.

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Added on September 22, 2011, 3:32 pmI've not read everything, but just to conclude from my understanding.

Cause and Effect is true. Butterfly Effect is true.

However the concept of good and bad karma, is inconclusive.

It is true that when we do good, we tend to get good. However it is never a guarantee.

It will require us to first show what we did in our previous lives, in order to prove whether karma is true.

Otherwise, as far as we can see the good and the bad occurs, based on both karma, and pure chance.

Here is how cause and effect works, if I feed a hungry dog, there is a possibility that he will bite my fingers. If it does bite me, well, then that's cause and effect. Cause and effect does not determine whether good or bad occurs. Just that something happens due to something prior.

This post has been edited by TheDoer: Sep 22 2011, 04:56 PM

I agree with you.
There is no such thing as "nett karma/cumulative karma", else you cant explain why everyone;s life have both good and bad experience, if your karma is according to merit point then everyone should either suffer for whole life/ live good for whole life.

Har? Like that might as well say Karma is luck, I have not read anything interesting, nothing unexpected, all abide to the same story line, boring lah.

I once read a story about this strange man.

Whenever something bad happens to him, he is happy. And whenever something good happens to him he is sad.

There is a morale behind it.

I only remember the mid point which went like this:


Once upon a time, there was a famer who was given a horse. His wife was delighted, but he frowned. Asked why he was sad, he said, something bad will surely follow.

The next day his son went riding on the horse and he fell and broke his leg. The man kept smiling whole day long. Asked why he was smiling, good things will come my way.

It happens the kingdom was at war, and some military men came to draft all the young men from the village into the army. Because the son's leg hasn't recovered he did not have to enlist.

The story went so on and so forth.

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Added on September 23, 2011, 10:42 amLife is a series of random events, which we try to influence. And usually by doing good we influence them to be good.

Random here, refers to events that though had a cause, neither the cause nor the event itself had any meaning behind it. And we are not able to accurately perceive it's outcome due to the infinite number of prior events that will affect it's outcome.



This post has been edited by TheDoer: Sep 23 2011, 10:42 AM

Some say luck, some say butterfly effect, some say Karma, it's just a matter of perception. If I tell you these 'luck' is actually an outcome of certain Butterfly Effect, which is predetermined, do you believe it?
If you treat Buddhism as a teaching, you'll be surprise that Gauthama Buddha able to come out with a theory that similar to chaos theory a.k.a Butterfly Effect.
For a series of event that happened, you can treat it as pre-determined or random, there's no way to disprove either one.

That's exactly my point, random could be pre-determine, just that we human still don't have the technology or knowledge to perceive it. However, you can simply say that is just a coincidence, or we able to change it.

For me, determinism or randomness is just two side of a same coin, as karma suggested - your life is affected by your previous karma, but you have the option to change it. The part where most people hard to believe is Reincarnation according to karma。

This post has been edited by bashlyner: Sep 23 2011, 11:41 AM

I think I get what you mean. You mean to say, that there is an "eventual" path that we just don't know and our actions via free will being part of that eventual path.

Hum.. perhaps... perhaps. However there is still no proof, that anything we do, does have a balance sheet of right or wrong. Whatever we do now, will effect our future, but not necessarily in an equally "right" or "wrong" return.

And yes, reincarnation just like the concept of karma... this is an unproven concept. I've only heard claims, without believable reasoning how it is possible.

We are not asking for proof nor disprove a story, just a story and meant to play out in such a way. If you choose to believe, you practice it and treat it as guide, meaning play the game according to the rules. If not, you make your own assumption and often interpreted by believer as god's will too, meaning whatever behavior is pre-determined, end of the story.

Not very interesting to me, that is why I don't believe and open for more assumptions because I wonder whats the living cycle about and if I refuse to play, what would happen when I die. If I am destined to be who I am, then not my problem loh, if a person become a criminal also meant to be and as well as a victim of crime and unjust.

After the movie Matrix, it strengthen my will as non believer. In my daily conduct, I think beyond restriction than in the context of religion, we are already being restricted by so many things, at least my mind is free.

Definitely I will take karma seriously

Who cares, take it seriously if you did wrong, since you don't know what you did in your previous life, you may suffer later and if it happen, please come tell us.

I practise buddhism , so I believe in karma .
I do, always tell my friends about karma, I saw what they did and I saw what they get in return, and at the same times, I would say loudly 报应(karma) .

But when I think about it deeply , it's just something special to prevent us from doing bad things and console ourselves .

Example, If we practice karma-ism
We will never do bad things as we know there will be karma , thus making us to think twice before doing anything

And when we didn't do anything wrong yet get bad karma, we will convince ourselves that it's our previous lives doings that bring to us today

If that happen to you, why should you suffer? Like receive punishment you don't even know what you did wrong is fair? 认命 is just luck than curse your previous self or just a way to console yourself.

For those which you noted and saw the outcome of karma. How many did not come true? We had probably forgotten those.

The universe doesn't owe us anything, why do we think it is trying to make things fair?

Having ways to console oneself is definitely superior than raging or jumping off cliff when dealing with life crisis , don't you think?

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Added on October 5, 2011, 3:05 pm

for those who noted and saw directly the outcome of karma, they will be terrified and will wish for deliverance.

This post has been edited by soul2soul: Oct 5 2011, 03:07 PM

Jumping off cliff is exactly what I will do being a non believer because nothing is more superior than the choice we made, why should I endure physical and mental suffering if I can choose to end it? People die everyday in road accident / hunger / illness anyway, console oneself is merely fooling oneself and for the believe, so if my next life will suffer if I kill myself, not my problem loh because my previous life did that to me otherwise I don't have to do it.

So all the crime is to remind us to appreciate life, if your family member become a victim, you'll be terrified and wish for deliverance and closure. If so I wonder why rage can turn into holly war.

This post has been edited by 3dassets: Oct 6 2011, 10:05 AM

Such fatalistic view.

Alright. You are entitled to your own opinion. Enjoice.



This post has been edited by soul2soul: Oct 7 2011, 08:39 AM