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 V3. Swiftlet Keeping Discussion, Home of Fuciphagus Domesticus

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Cergau
post Jul 10 2011, 06:06 PM

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QUOTE(West Wing @ Jul 10 2011, 04:52 PM)
It's easier said than done but if you are the one that help to negotiate the safe passage for the good guys and what's then, the bad ones will get to you cos' the blame on you that they are not allow to stay @ town. then what???? Will the ones that you help to allow to remain @ town help come to your defense if these really mad and unhappy owners are going for your hide for the bad ones aren't going to admit that they cause their own destruction and that  you are the culprit that cause their BHs being not allow @ town....they aren't going to think that you have save those who are cooperating and should be allow to stay and convincw the authorities  that action is needed to be taken only against the bad ones.

I won't want to be the one to try to save those who follow the recommendations and make peace with the rest of the population cos it shall be my hide at state. My own home being disturbed by the BHs sound pollution an many occasions  and even with my close connection with the Association manage to solve the problem for a month but just one month and then what?????? Those A**H*** have no brains and they don't know that by doing so, we are helping them and to ensure them of a chance to remain @ town and they think that it's their Right to remain or all BHs can go to hell (demolished) together!!!!

Only if I be given a legalized torch to burn (007 license) and I will burn down their BHs if they repeat the disturbance after warning so that we will have better chances and leverage in negotiating a better deal with the authorities. Maybe, self control by the Association, lower fees and non interference from the authorities is my agenda. 

No offense to anyone in particular but just to speak for all even those who object to the industry. We must appreciate their understanding of our industry but we also must respect their rights to good living!!
*
WW,
I am afraid you missed my point....
The thrust of my post was that members are to speak up now through their assoc or failing which ..live with the consequences.
It wasnt to suggest that YOU go do the stuff I mentioned.

Anyways...the compliant majority doesn't need intervention.
The 1GP is already in existence...how they will implement will not differ very much from the spirit and intent of the 1GP.
It is already sufficiently detailed.....to foresee where and what it will lead to. biggrin.gif

West Wing
post Jul 10 2011, 08:13 PM

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QUOTE(Cergau @ Jul 10 2011, 06:06 PM)
WW,
I am afraid you missed my point....
The thrust of my post was that members are to speak up now through their assoc or failing which ..live with the consequences.
It wasnt to suggest that YOU go do the stuff I mentioned.

Anyways...the compliant majority doesn't need intervention.
The 1GP is already in existence...how they will implement will not differ very much from the spirit and intent of the 1GP.
It is already sufficiently detailed.....to foresee where and what it will lead to.  biggrin.gif
*
Ooph Bro,

I waasn't meaning you or me in my posting at all. I was just trying to add to your view and I do share your view on the matter but just regret that many owners are not helping at all by joining associations and follow the guidelines. Even if not lending a hand, at least stay clean so no to burden those who champion your cause and try to help.

Sorry, I didn't mean you in my posting at all.......
BirdNest_Satay
post Jul 11 2011, 01:19 PM

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A little update on my JV bh ...

Dropping spots stagnant, same size as last month .... back to "empty" condition early this year.
Some spider web irritated my head when I was inside.

1st floor 30-31 celcius, 2nd floor 31 to 32.6celcius ... both around 68-70% humidity .... time 2pm

repaired leaking toilet pipes, changed bird sound, sprayed EM on walls, blocked windy ventilation openings by 50%

Lesson learned .... DO NOT MESS WITH ENTRANCE HOLE
My attempt at using nail carpet to repel pigeons might have scared the swiftlets away.

This post has been edited by BirdNest_Satay: Jul 11 2011, 01:20 PM
tuckfook
post Jul 11 2011, 01:44 PM

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Most associations are sad cases....

Everyone is in it to their own advantage in one way or another and those who earnestly want to help get booted out of the committee because of their logical and amiable opinions.

Unfortunately, DVS has taken the position that anyone registering must be a member of an association(related).

There are far too many rough and tough, hardheaded Swiftlet ranchers who do not give a damn as to what may happen to fellow ranchers, so the problem will always be there. The local councils do not have the muscle to enforce the laws on these people and it will be sad for the others when the crunch comes.


Added on July 11, 2011, 1:50 pm
QUOTE(BirdNest_Satay @ Jul 11 2011, 01:19 PM)
A little update on my JV bh ...

Dropping spots stagnant, same size as last month .... back to "empty" condition early this year.
Some spider web irritated my head when I was inside.
*
Please post details so that we may help.

Location, plan of BH, distance to nearest successful BH , type of sound played(samples) etc.

Obviously you are near some BHs for your BH to be visited by some. Something must be right for them to have stayed and shit in your place.

anti Pigeon nail carpet would not make any difference unless the hole is very narrow.

The tempt. is usually highest at night about 9pm. check. Humidity not a very important factor for the time being esp. in Malaysia,

Why em ?

What did you do from day 1?



This post has been edited by tuckfook: Jul 11 2011, 01:50 PM
Cergau
post Jul 11 2011, 02:31 PM

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QUOTE(BirdNest_Satay @ Jul 11 2011, 01:19 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Lesson learned .... DO NOT MESS WITH ENTRANCE HOLE
My attempt at using nail carpet to repel pigeons might have scared the swiftlets away.
*
What did u do?
A picture of the entrance hole and your 'nail carpet' would better to explain your situation and let others have ago at resolving it if necessary.
BirdNest_Satay
post Jul 11 2011, 05:25 PM

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QUOTE(tuckfook @ Jul 11 2011, 01:44 PM)
Please post details so that we may help.
Location, plan of BH, distance to nearest successful BH , type of sound played(samples) etc.
Obviously you are near some BHs for your BH to be visited by some. Something must be right for them to have stayed and shit in your place.
anti Pigeon nail carpet would not make any difference unless the hole is very narrow.
The tempt. is usually highest at night about 9pm. check.  Humidity not a very important factor for the time being esp. in Malaysia,
Why em ?
What did you do from day 1?
*
Thank you very much for your reply.
To be honest, I am a little uncomfortable about posting my BH's plan in public.

Location is southern tip of peninsular malaysia. 3km away from a fishing town with ~300 BH.
You are correct that this BH is currently in the middle of a row of 21 shoplots. Half of them have top floors converted to BH and the same situation happens ... only 1-2 BH have significant number of birds.

My partner bought the EM to spray here as he have been using it in his other BH which produces harvests.
This BH's walls have not been applied with any commercial aroma products and I suppose EM is beneficial to BH as it "freshens" up the relatively stale air inside and prevents fungus. I do not recall seeing any online claims of swiftlets being repelled by EM's scent but I did caution not to spray it close to the nesting planks.

From day1 in mid January, the BH was rushed into opening sound even when we have not acquired any internal sound as the pigeons were trying to enter the roof which was their breeding ground. Jan to March were plagued by problems with electricity and water supply. No renovation were done after opening sound and we only enter every 4-7 weeks to do simple check and change sound.
My partner have a few years of experience while I am a fresh newbie, so I follow the steps he say.

QUOTE(Cergau @ Jul 11 2011, 02:31 PM)
What did u do?
A picture of the entrance hole and your 'nail carpet' would better to explain your situation and let others have ago at resolving it if necessary.
*
There were pigeons standing on the dog kennel ledge and dropping their poop into the staircase airwell back in January to March.
The months where I used nail carpet matches the decline of swiftlet dropping growth.
Used in middle of March, removed it in late May. June was the monsoon season but I failed to take advantage of the opportunity.
Don't have any photo of it.
user posted image
Cergau
post Jul 11 2011, 08:48 PM

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QUOTE(BirdNest_Satay @ Jul 11 2011, 05:25 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

There were pigeons standing on the dog kennel ledge and dropping their poop into the staircase airwell back in January to March.
The months where I used nail carpet matches the decline of swiftlet dropping growth.
Used in middle of March, removed it in late May. June was the monsoon season but I failed to take advantage of the opportunity.
Don't have any photo of it.
user posted image
*
If the proportions of yr sketch is representative of the real thing...I agree with Tuck Fook that the nail carpet is unlikely the culprit.
swiftcurrent
post Jul 11 2011, 08:50 PM

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QUOTE(BirdNest_Satay @ Jul 11 2011, 05:25 PM)
Thank you very much for your reply.
To be honest, I am a little uncomfortable about posting my BH's plan in public.

Location is southern tip of peninsular malaysia. 3km away from a fishing town with ~300 BH.
You are correct that this BH is currently in the middle of a row of 21 shoplots. Half of them have top floors converted to BH and the same situation happens ... only 1-2 BH have significant number of birds.

My partner bought the EM to spray here as he have been using it in his other BH which produces harvests.
This BH's walls have not been applied with any commercial aroma products and I suppose EM is beneficial to BH as it "freshens" up the relatively stale air inside and prevents fungus. I do not recall seeing any online claims  of swiftlets being repelled by EM's scent but I did caution not to spray it close to the nesting planks.

From day1 in mid January, the BH was rushed into opening sound even when we have not acquired any internal sound as the pigeons were trying to enter the roof which was their breeding ground. Jan to March were plagued by problems with electricity and water supply. No renovation were done after opening sound and we only enter every 4-7 weeks to do simple check and change sound.
My partner have a few years of experience while I am a fresh newbie, so I  follow the steps he say.
There were pigeons standing on the dog kennel ledge and dropping their poop into the staircase airwell back in January to March.
The months where I used nail carpet matches the decline of swiftlet dropping growth.
Used in middle of March, removed it in late May. June was the monsoon season but I failed to take advantage of the opportunity.
Don't have any photo of it.
user posted image
*
Pidgeon nails unlikely to affect swiftlets. More likely to be high temperature. Not about EM, onthe one hand you want your new bh to smell like it is being occupied by thousands of swiftlets while on the other hand EM is suppose to remove all the smell

This post has been edited by swiftcurrent: Jul 11 2011, 08:52 PM
tuckfook
post Jul 11 2011, 10:24 PM

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QUOTE(BirdNest_Satay @ Jul 11 2011, 05:25 PM)
Thank you very much for your reply.
To be honest, I am a little uncomfortable about posting my BH's plan in public.

Location is southern tip of peninsular malaysia. 3km away from a fishing town with ~300 BH.

<< snipped>>

*
Location in relation to other BHs is usually a very good indicator but in your case it is probably unnecessary.

You did not do your homework !

For some unknown reason, if a whole row of shophouses is converted individually to BHs, several in between will be unsuccessful or experience very slow growth. This is the case in many swiftlet areas and had led to the conclusion that BHs are about 70% successful.

By not mounting your tweeters at the entrance hole only attracts the pigeons to stand there. You are lucky bats did not invade your BH as it is probably only the sound from the tweeters that will keep the bats away.

You want the smell of a heavily occupied BH to attract new birds and you need as much swiftlet shit as possible. Keep this damp at all times or it'll be useless. Change this every 3 months or less. Depending on the size and ventilation, a couple of bags of Ammonium Bicarbonate may help. All you need to do is to cut the tops open, ammonia gas will be produced and the ammonium bicarbonate will slowly disappear.

A humidifier must be used of the ammonia will disappear quickly and also the shit will dry up.

Another important factor is to have your entrance hole higher than your neighbours'

The internal of your BH must also be suitable with tweeters at every corner or every other corner to further increase your chances. Do not use corner planks.

Make sure no duress sound is being played.

Without internal plans and overall plans there is nothing much that can be done. Cergau has set an excellent example on offering complete information, if you want other to comment.



West Wing
post Jul 11 2011, 11:02 PM

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As I always mentioned, never do anything to your BH when the good is going and although the entrance is large enough that the small portion of nails aren't going to cause any inconvenience to the movement of the birds but bear in mind that the opening look different from the eyes of the birds and those nails may look threatening. Also, do you use glue to stick the plank of nails to the entrance.

New fledged birds are very easy to be scared and afraid of every new objects or movement in the BH and can easily cause them to fly away. That the reason why the internal sound is need in new BH to make them feel safe and confidence with birds around and a wrong sound may cause the reverse reaction. So, use of night sound need to be very careful or else, instate of creation a better environment and surrouding, you have scare away the birds.

That's why, there are many small things that you may missed when doing modification of the BH and it maybe your problem to your BH. Pigeons have been serious problem with BH and have cause many failures in new BH and their shits attract large quantity of Cs.


Unless you do have problem, then solve it and not to try to prevent something which isn't there in the first place.

Above, is my advice to newbizs and always be patient if the increment maybe small cos the increment depend on so many outside and uncontrollable factors and not only due to your design or conditions of the BH.
BirdNest_Satay
post Jul 11 2011, 11:25 PM

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^ Thanks for above pointers from TF, will improve ASAP.
I have overlooked the importance of keeping the droppings damp and the bag of AmmoniumB is sitting at the corner being under-utilised.

This post has been edited by BirdNest_Satay: Jul 11 2011, 11:26 PM
West Wing
post Jul 13 2011, 10:54 AM

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Few months ago, a BH owner get a letter to demolish his BH as the bandaran had received numerous complaints against his sound disturbance. He joined the Association after receiving the letter, then he asked the assciation for assistance and the association helped to solve his problem and he promised to ensure that his sound will not disturb his neighbours. The association told him that in case of any future complaints against his BH, he will has to solve it himself.

A few months passed, he again raise the sound and the notice to quit again issue to him but this time since the association will not help him: he promise that if he goes down, he will ensure all BHs@ town follow....

A case which will happen again and again......
northface
post Jul 13 2011, 11:30 AM

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I have a question for sifus here since I have no knowledge/experience on this particular part. How have BHs that are located in higher elevation area fared? Places like Bentong/Batang Kali/ Kuala Kubu Baru.

These towns are located near peninsular's central mountain range so I would think it's elevation would be definitely higher than places like Kuantan or Segamat.

Any sifus with BH near these area willing to share some stories? biggrin.gif
West Wing
post Jul 13 2011, 11:41 AM

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""International Conference and Training on Swiftlet Ranching

Organizer's Details
Universiti Sultan Zainal Abidin
Kampus Kota, Jalan Sultan Mahmud, 20400 Kuala Terengganu Terengganu Darul Iman, MALAYSIA Kuala Terengganu Malaysia
Phone:
09-6220707
Conference Description
International Conference and Training on Swiftlet Ranching will be held from 17th July, 2011 to 19th July, 2011, and will take place at Taman Tamadun Islam, Kuala Terengganu, Malaysia. This educational conference will invite well educated people, such as, academicians, researchers and entrepreneurs from Asian region, who will socialize in the suitable environment and share their expertise on swiftlet ranching industries, and will disseminate current state of art in swiftlet ranching, thus creating awareness on the potential of Edible Nest Swiftlet's industry. It will be organized by Universiti Sultan Zainal Abidin that enhances and nurtures the talent of future leaders in various disciplines through reengineering of knowledge promotion of transparency and openness, instillation of diversity for the benefit of humanity.""""""


Above, any here attending?????????? I heard that the the seminar is Rm500 +Rm300 per head. I am not attending but will be in KT on these few days and maybe anyone attending may want to share some infos on it in the evening over a cup of coffee........on me of course!!!!!

"This educational conference will invite well educated people, " and I wasn't going as I M not so well educated people Hahaha so any "Well Educated People" among us here going for the conference???????

This post has been edited by West Wing: Jul 13 2011, 12:37 PM
northface
post Jul 13 2011, 07:41 PM

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I won't be going but from the description of the conference is sounds like an educational conf, probably gonna discuss long term prospects and things like that than ACTUAL swftlet farming itself.

Yet they are still charging $800 per person?
xunji
post Jul 13 2011, 10:38 PM

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yesterday i went to Temerloh, Pahang

visited a construction site, ( police station )

a interesting finding, they construct using cmu block. very cheap compare to double brick wall method construction.

no column and beam are need.

the cmu will replace the column and beam. only slab are need.

have anyone here use these material before.?

specification of the product said meet our bh requirement.

concrete masonry unit (CMU)
northface
post Jul 14 2011, 08:52 AM

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What kind of structure requires no column/beam?

I've seen BH using precast concrete blocks to form the beam and columns, they just need to combine them up after delivering to site, only thing that takes time are the floor slabs like you said.

However I doubt the safety of such structures, a magnitude 8 earthquake in Sumatera and your structure might just crumble like a house of cards.


Added on July 14, 2011, 9:06 amOh and I forgot to add, the contractor that builds BH using such methods around the East coast area proudly told me that his record of completing a BH from scratch using such method is like 2 months.

This post has been edited by northface: Jul 14 2011, 09:06 AM
BirdNest_Satay
post Jul 14 2011, 01:10 PM

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QUOTE(northface @ Jul 13 2011, 11:30 AM)
I have a question for sifus here since I have no knowledge/experience on this particular part. How have BHs that are located in higher elevation area fared? Places like Bentong/Batang Kali/ Kuala Kubu Baru.
These towns are located near peninsular's central mountain range so I would think it's elevation would be definitely higher than places like Kuantan or Segamat.
Any sifus with BH near these area willing to share some stories? biggrin.gif
*
went Batang Kali in October 2010 and May 2011
First trip not many birds in evening sunset, second trip can see the shoplots have good result - plenty of swiftlets flying high above in the morning.
Cergau
post Jul 14 2011, 01:28 PM

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QUOTE(northface @ Jul 13 2011, 07:41 PM)
I won't be going but from the description of the conference is sounds like an educational conf, probably gonna discuss long term prospects and things like that than ACTUAL swftlet farming itself.

Yet they are still charging $800 per person?
*
It's all here on their web site,... for the curious
http://www.unisza.edu.my/icotos/
northface
post Jul 14 2011, 01:34 PM

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Bro satay,

Thanks for the info, do you actually own any BHs in Batang Kali or you were just visiting looking for potential?

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