I mentioned Maslow's hierarchy (this is an old idea, more than 50 years already I know) simply because it was taught in my uni time. I know there are many variant / improved versions out there by various guru nowadays. The main point here is there are emotional and mental needs to be fulfill.

Supernatural means carrot/stick, reward/punishment, heaven/hell, you just need to pick either one of these.

My point of view is religion is not a necessity, however it is necessary to population at large and will remain longer than you and I can possibly imagine.

Whether we believe in the spiritual aspect of religion or not, religion already fused/hybrid itself into part of the culture system, the festive celebration, the marriage, baby born, funeral, ancestor remembrance ceremony and many more.

It is no longer a question of whether we can live in a world without religion, as we already in it. Asking this question is like asking can we live in a world without wearing any clothing. The answer is always a yes, however what is the significant of the answer and the impact to our society even the answer is a yes? We will not change the clothing system for the sick of changing, don't we?

Similary, the religion ideology will remain.

However, there are many enables nowadays that encourage human to improve the understanding towards religion.

Enables:
1) Education
2) The ability to access more information, books, internet
3) The dialog between science vs religion, religion vs religion

Really hope that the enables can improve the mentality that it is something unquestionable and unchallengable, avoid blind faith and introduce more reasoning into religion belief.

This is a more achievable goal than to inform the population at large that they don't need religion at all.

Like what wise man said before:

"Life is about the journey, not the destination"

Is it wise to stop at the religion tunnel vision view of the world and not continuing look into the other side of the argument of the existence itself, only you/oneself can answer this question.......

bad analogy, as there are places where humans will not survive without clothing. same cant be said about religion.

continuing on your clothing analogy, 200 years ago, clothing covers everything. today, clothing are getting mroe and more revealing by the day. (aka religion is becoming increasingly irrevelant)

@@ i am 20....SO??? Erm, now that i am interested to know you guys age, mind tell??? If u guys were just student like me, i am truly impressed by the complexity of your thought...really...Very wise

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Added on November 19, 2009, 4:26 am
Science vs Religion showdown (Copy from somehere, hope that can boast the topic more)


'Let me explain the problem science has with religion.' The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand.

'You're a Christian, aren't you, son?

'Yes sir,' the student says.

'So you believe in God?'

'Absolutely.'

'Is God good?'

'Sure! God's good.'

'Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?'

'Yes.'

'Are you good or evil?'

'The Bible says I'm evil.'

The professor grins knowingly. 'Aha! The Bible!'

He considers for a moment, 'Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?'

'Yes sir, I would.'

'So you're good!'

'I wouldn't say that.'

'But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't.'

The student does not answer, so the professor continues.

'He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?'

The student remains silent.

'No, you can't, can you?' the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.

'Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?'

'Er...yes,' the student says.

'Is Satan good?'

The student doesn't hesitate on this one, 'No..'

'Then where does Satan come from?'

The student falters, 'From God.'

'That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?'

'Yes, sir...'

'Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?'

'Yes.'

'So who created evil?' The professor continued, 'If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil.'

Again, the student has no answer.

'Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?'

The student squirms on his feet. 'Yes.'

'So who created them?'

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question, 'Who created them?'

There is still no answer... Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized.

'Tell me,' he continues onto another student. 'Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?'

The student's voice betrays him and cracks. 'Yes, professor, I do.'

The old man stops pacing, 'Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?'

'No sir. I've never seen Him.'

'Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?'

'No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't.'

'Yet you still believe in him?'

'Yes.'

'According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?'

'Nothing,' the student replies. 'I only have my faith.'

'Yes, faith,' the professor repeats. 'And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith.'

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of His own. 'Professor, is there such thing as heat?'

'Yes,' the professor replies. 'There's heat.'

'And is there such a thing as cold?'

'Yes, son, there's cold too.'

'No sir, there isn't..'

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet.

The student begins to explain...

'You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees..'

'Everybody or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.'

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer..

'What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?'

'Yes,' the professor replies without hesitation. 'What is night if it isn't darkness?'

'You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and its called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word. In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?'

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester. 'So what point are you making, young man?'

'Yes, professor... My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed.'

The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time, 'Flawed? Can you explain how?'

'You are working on the premise of duality,' the student explains...

'You argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought.'

'It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one.. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it...'

'Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?'

'If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do.'

'Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?'

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

'Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?'

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided.

'To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean.' The student looks around the room, 'Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's brain?' The class breaks out into laughter.

'Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir...'

'So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?'

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable. Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers, 'I guess you'll have to take them on faith.'

'Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life,' the student continues, 'Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?'

Now uncertain, the professor responds, 'Of course, there is. We see it everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.'

To this the student replied, 'Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light.'

The professor sat down..

This post has been edited by communist892003: Nov 19 2009, 04:26 AM

it is sad that when you are in deep meditation, you are able to see your past life

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sagga/loka.html

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Added on November 19, 2009, 9:08 amnowadays, no oen cares to be a good human.... but want to live siok siok in heaven forever

This post has been edited by Awakened_Angel: Nov 19 2009, 09:08 AM

I am looking at a generic system that we adopt as analogy, dude. Not to the extend of extreme weather in north and south poles.

The clothing analogy isn't perfect, no prob with that.

The main point here is a system (be it a necessity or not) that have been practiced and applied though out will remain exists as long as demand and supply are continuing in supporting each others.

An ideology can survive or not are heavily depends on a few factors.

- Values
- Social impact
- Economy (the continuation of cash flow to support this ideology)
- Education (the younger the age to explore this, the higher the penetration rate)
- Infrastructure (infrastructure to support this ideology)
- Promotion/Marketing

Usually an organization structure/body will be formed to manage this.

Need not to say, oneself can figure out if this ideology will remain exist or not by looking at the society as a whole

muslims having alcohol, christians having adulteries, buddhist killing animals in japan and china...

Your post was a debate Einstein brought up in his University days AFAIK. Correct me if I'm wrong.

AFAIK, it is just a nice story.

Hm, perhaps not. I guess I could be wrong.

But this is one of his quotes pertaining to the subject matter :

I don't try to imagine a God; it suffices to stand in awe of the structure of the world, insofar as it allows our inadequate senses to appreciate it.

- Letter to S. Flesch, April 16, 1954; Einstein Archive 30-1154

No, einstein never had that conversation. Haha, this same thing came up in RWI. Btw, that fake einstein's points are completely flawed. Given, he's merely using his teacher's logic but still, who in the world can read that and be convinced?



Nope, Darwin's theory of evolution is based on theory and fact. Theory of natural selection (argue this!) and the fact of mutation. Add that together and voila!! Evolution!



Consistent analysis and observations show that brains have consistently existed in human heads. But HEY who knows!? Maybe brains only materialize when our heads get cracked open or we get an MRI!!



I doubt an intelligent person would accept that answer. Whoever wrote this must have felt really good about himself without realising that aside from using einstein's name added onto his words and stringing together fallacies and generalising scientific views, his logic is plain....= = You don't need faith to prove that a brain exists. In fact, faith cannot prove anything except for our ability to have faith.



Wow genius!! I thought of that too when i was in junior high! Not the evil bit though, saying evil is the absence of God is like saying that hunger is the absence of the Zabarakalabadaba in your stomach? What's Zabarakalabadaba you say? Why, it's the God that makes you full after eating food! Illogical!? Well, i have faith!!! You can't prove me wrong!!!

Does this clear anything up? I really hate that story. My friend posted it on her blog and everyone was like OMG IN SCIENCE'S FACE!!! Meanwhile, i'm

****************
Back to the topic it's true that many of us have deviated from the teachings but sometimes, i just don't think they make sense. No offence to anyone here but i don't understand why we have to pay the church. Why not just run on donations not forced?

I disagree with how sometimes in buddhist religious ceremonies you get to write what you wish for on a piece of paper that you buy and it may come true.

I understand that in the old days the church ran on a sort of communism. Wealth was shared. It's not anymore, so why pay? If we don't will we go to Hell?

wow, quanyum mechanic brain, the act of observation cause the brain to materialize

never heard of it, but most likely a chinese perversion/modification/addendum/con-job and not actual buddhism. kinda illogical when the corner stone of buddhism is to eliminate/control desire/craving. and you have this ritual that for all purpose head the opposite direction

speaking of clothing earlier, evolutionist answer me this, what stupid accidental natural selection would result in a species that is unable to survive in its natural habitat without "borrowing"/stealing the skin of another animal??

I believe every God is more interested that people follow his ways instead of concentrating on worshipping & telling everybody how much you believe in him.

Religious provides a guideline to control one self, the name of god helps strenghten ones self discipline knowing god knows what nobody knows.

So instead of pursuading people to join their club, & checking "Do you believe in God, No? OH MY GOD!", why not tell people Your God's Ways instead? I believe it's pretty simple no rocket science that you can only learn when you go to Sunday Church or Friday Prayers so "Please Join The Club".

Sometimes don't you think the way people try to get other people into their religion is abit like MLM style? Get them in even when they are not sure about it.

This post has been edited by advocado: Nov 25 2009, 08:10 PM

SURE.. U need a religion.. U need to trust god.. because its our nature feeling.. u cant deny it.. trust me.. because u are just u, u cant be him or her.. and we are just stupid human tat always make a mistake..

And the biggest mistake we will make is thinking that relying on something so-call almighty would actually make ourself smart

A conversation excerpt from Angels and Demons (my favourite quote of the year):

Camerlengo Patrick McKenna: Do you believe in God, sir?

Robert Langdon: Father, I simply believe that religion...

Camerlengo Patrick McKenna: I did not ask if you believe what man says about God. I asked if you believe in God.

Robert Langdon: I'm an academic. My mind tells me I will never understand God.

Camerlengo Patrick McKenna: And your heart?

Robert Langdon: Tells me I'm not meant to. Faith is a gift that I have yet to receive.


In short, your faith will decide whether there is a need to embrace a religion or not.

Sccchhhmart! I like this answer. I guess faith is really the major cause in answering whether human need religion or not. We can debate, give reasons and whatever crap to show that we need/we do not need religion. Faith will decide whether we need religion or not.

having a belief as the guidance to life is very much like an atheist bound his actions by his own self-formed principles. we shackle our feet, so we dont run amok.

simply said best in the series of prison break "we are captives of our own identities, living in prisons of our own creation."

with or without religion, mankind have come grown out of the primitive barbaric nature we all once were, im sure we could very well live without it already.

Thank you . I can add another one, this time from the Da Vinci Code. I think it was near the ending where Sophie asked Langdon how did he felt when he was trapped down in the well. Langdon answered maybe it wasn't bad to have some faith in God, thinking that he was not alone when he was in the well. Without the faith, he might have died.

I like this quote too

A fairly stupid question

Read this.
http://www.whale.to/b/religion_h.html

I just came across to this post and decided to post.

In my perspective, human do need religion because I believe that religion is here to lead and guide us to the right path. I am not too sure if there are other religions who encourages evil but I am talking about the Christians, Muslims and Buddhists.
We obviously do not know the existence of hell, heaven and reincarnation/rebirth for sure because there is no one who have been there and came back to tell us.
But we, humans, who are afraid to die have a desire to live on in the future in a better lifestyle. I think that is why there is such places called hell, heaven and reincarnation - life after death. It's a choice of whether how you want your future to be. By doing good, we will end up having a better after life and vice-versa.