What is religion if not moral politics?

In my opinion, the question of whether Man needs Religion is very similar to the question of whether Man needs Electricity. Man can definitely live without it, but it's just so much easier to have religion around. I disagree that Man is only good because of religion, though it does emphasize good morals. Like electricity, it can be used for good or for bad. Crusades & religious killings, anyone? You may say they're misinterpreting their religion, but what makes anyone else any better?

The purpose of religion may be just to convince people that there will be a final judgement at the end of our life whose punishment lasts close to an eternity. Scary. no? Kind of makes you want to be good. More importantly though, religion gives meaning to our lives. & of course, Man is a sucker for finding meaning in our mundane lives. Whether or not it has any truth.

I'm a chinese & i see myself as an agnostic buddhist. Pork's the bomb! Though honestly, it is the dirtiest meat you could eat & i try to reduce my consumption of it.

First, you have to define spirituality haha. You don't have to be religious to be spiritual, you don't even have to be theistic.

The question of whether or not we've ever hoped to be blessed is irrelevant, isn't it? It doesn't show that we need religion, only that people take it as a safe bet. People usually do it as smaller scale of Pascal's wager if they don't really believe in it.

I don't think we need religion. Most of us just need something to believe in that makes us feel secure, that doesn't leave us feeling empty. We want to feel interconnected, like we are a part of something big, like we matter. We want a God like the Christian one because He will become our personal best friend and will lead us to salvation. It is honestly extremely appealing especially when you're down in life, though my logical side refuses to let me embrace it. Too many holes and fallacies. For now, i think that Man is not ready to give up religion. Most of us are not yet intelligent enough and in touch with ourselves to accept life as it is, and that the odds are that we matter as much as a used tissue does in the larger scheme of the universe.

Quote:
If God ever exists, it shows its power, creativity through what it has created, human, galaxy, flower, animals and so on.
End quote.

I personally do believe in a sort of God, but that statement is fallacious. You seem to imply that our universe is a proof of God. Cosmological aesthetics, like God is something idealistic and wonderful to believe in. Emphasis on believe. Religious ppl cause atheists narrow-minded to the concept of anything other than what they see. But if i claimed that my bottle of cough medicine is THE God, would you believe me? Please do not call other ppl close-minded simply because they disagree.

I reiterate, we don't need it. But as long as Man needs spiritual crutches and is desperate for eternal security, it's not going to go away. It's like an addiction, a dogmatic filibuster.

Btw, has it ever occured to anyone that there is a chance that we are the most intelligent creatures (the commercialized sort of intelligence as honestly, i think concerning wisdom, most of us are below animals) in the universe? It's a tiny chance but it's there nonetheless.

Haha, i definitely agree there. Religion didn't create culture. Culture created religion & the person who made it fine-tuned it accordingly.

@f4te: asking about whether humans NEED religion has nothing to do with which religion is as you put it, 'best'. Look at the word "need" in the larger sense of the word. It's not like "I need my morning coffee" or "I need you in my life". Without that coffee/person, we CAN live but it's just something we have to grow above/ adjust to. We need religion like we need coffee. It helps us a lot and the world will be in an uproar if they lost coffee but we will live. Hence, we don't need coffee.

It's talking about our basic want to have something to believe in and whether we can live without it. If so, will we be better off in a moral/physical sense, etc...Am i right in presuming this is the direction you want this thread to go, TS?

Uhm...no. We don't need faith to give our life meaning. That in itself shows human weakness, the need to give meaning to things whether or not it is logical. They worshipped rocks and trees, remember? Modern day religion isn't very different. Then again, those animists could be right. Try looking within yourself to give your life meaning. Why do you have to look anywhere else? But i suppose it's a lot easier to have faith in something you can't see. Cause there is no way you can prove it's right, but it is unlikely it will be proven wrong either. I understand, honestly. Ignorance is bliss. However, our minds can only evolve in a forward motion, excluding conditions like Alzheimer's and amnesia. A person who has grasped this cannot revert to ignorance.

Agreed to some extent Though i wouldn't say no religion should exist. I personally differ intelligence from wisdom. Intelligent people could be very unwise. Like a quantum physicist who never pondered about life. He'd be an intelligent ignoramus But for people who do not even care to realize themselves, the easiest way to lead a meaningful life WOULD be through religion, however true it may be. Who are we to say, for as long as a person dies happy, i believe his purpose in life has been fulfilled. I'm a eudaimonist to an extent haha. & ignorance can be the easiest way to achieve happiness. The problem is, not everyone can be ignorant.

They can't all be true. They all claim to be true. Then wouldn't picking the right one be a matter of luck? And with shitty luck you get eternal damnation. How nice... Oh, & seriously Pascal's wager is stupid. I could start a new belief that if you believe in God, you will go to hell. Why? Maybe there's some superior being that may be god or aliens that emphasise the ability to be realistic. Hence, you phail, you go to Hell. Pascal's basing his wager on the thought that there are only 2 sides to death.

Btw, Communist=Atheist does not mean Atheist=Communist.

Rofl, now that's being passed on as an obvious fact? The boundaries of Human reason do not consolidate the need for faith. The want, maybe.

But yeah, i accept that a majority of ppl believe in God. I do, too. I just don't believe in the teachings here on Earth. I think an omnipotent God should have no qualms with not being worshipped. I mean, i mean no offence here but...Isn't that narcissistic and arrogant? Creating humans to worship Him or be damned. My friend explained to me that God has the right to feel that way cause He is God. Tyranny, anyone? She then continued to compare God to a Father & how he deserves his children's love cause well, he created them. Whether or not a father deserves his children's love, damning them for not submitting is just plain... It sounds like a very humane God to me. That is not the God i believe in.

Wrong there, buddy. It's a theory and no one knows whether it's a fact yet. It's generally accepted in the scientific community even though it is very flawed. Try plasma cosmology...Though i admit i have yet to understand it fully, it is more plausible.

Smart usage of the word Creator. Einstein did not believe in God. It's good if you can make science & religion meet. Without bending either one to make the fit. Thus far, hasn't been achieved.

"Or maybe you have a concrete proof that the creator does not exist?"

Or maybe you have concrete proof that the flying spaghetti monster does not exist? There is no proof that God doesn't exist. There is no proof that God exists. You say you believe in science. You say you spread your truth. Obviously your reasoning is flawed. Your truths are misleading assumptions. Great job confusing people!

Oh, & just because so-and-so smart people believed in God does not mean they are right. They are highly intelligent but they strive to give a meaning to the things we see around us simply because they can't figure out how things began. This is called Aesthetics. & we all know that aesthetics are shallow

I don't doubt it actually I believe religion will exist as long as the human species lives. Honestly though, imagining a world without religion paints a very bleak portrait for me...

I said Einstein didn't believe in God, not that he's an atheist. That's what i meant by smart usage of the word creator I'm interested but i'm noob too haha. Mind if i ask your age?


Uhm wait. The earth dying has nothing to do with religion. Don't you think that instead of just revering God, we should try to be like God. Buddhism teaches that we are all Buddhas and i prefer that ideology as well...Why not strive for perfection? Though the perfection i mean isn't the "I shall rule the world" kind.

I don't think religion acts as a deterrent to pollution at all. Kindly explain? Though perhaps if properly practiced, (sorry lah but a good chunk of ppl contributing to wars and greed are theists) the world will be more peaceful.
Agreed with the family bit though. Religion sort of brings a sense of brotherhood that i really like It's that warm and fuzzy feeling that everything connects, everything makes sense. But wait, almost forgetting how some religions do break families apart as parents won't accept homosexual children and all...Honestly, that is a big deal.

So well, again do Humans Need Religion? Individually, i guess the answer would be some. But as a species, human as a whole, i would say no.

This post has been edited by pllx: Nov 18 2009, 06:14 PM

Uhm, so well should i just *CO-google fallacy,dude. that's what your post is. That and contradiction,too-UGH*ignore this? Haha...He doesn't seem to get it I may post up my points later though i think i've a number of them scattered over this thread.

Well, no one can give an accurate answer there...It's all a matter of belief cause as you've said there's no conclusive proof of even an "us-after-death".

Correct me if i'm wrong:
Christian view: Heaven or Hell based on whether we've truly repented/ committed suicide etc... One question though, do we wait for the day of judgement before going to heaven/hell?

Buddhist view: There are several levels of heaven just as there are several levels of hell. And in between there's reincarnation(this branches out to human,animal,insect etc based on karma) and being sent back into the world as a Hungry ghost. Only humans can go to heaven, but hey if you're reborn as an insect, try again next life. Or the next few hundred. Eventually though, everyone will become Buddhas which we all once were.

Atheist view: We disappear? Though this is a generalization...

Haha, if you're trying to convince me, i came to that same conclusion some time ago. Debated with my christian ex about it. She said that babies go to heaven automatically & people who've never heard of Christ get stuck in some kind of limbo. That's where i brought up the point that every religion could be right & while they all claim to be the one, everything would be a matter of luck, choose wrongly and be damned forever etc. There's no rebuttal to this. It simply is not fair. Or can anyone produce one that isn't fallacious?

No, einstein never had that conversation. Haha, this same thing came up in RWI. Btw, that fake einstein's points are completely flawed. Given, he's merely using his teacher's logic but still, who in the world can read that and be convinced?



Nope, Darwin's theory of evolution is based on theory and fact. Theory of natural selection (argue this!) and the fact of mutation. Add that together and voila!! Evolution!



Consistent analysis and observations show that brains have consistently existed in human heads. But HEY who knows!? Maybe brains only materialize when our heads get cracked open or we get an MRI!!



I doubt an intelligent person would accept that answer. Whoever wrote this must have felt really good about himself without realising that aside from using einstein's name added onto his words and stringing together fallacies and generalising scientific views, his logic is plain....= = You don't need faith to prove that a brain exists. In fact, faith cannot prove anything except for our ability to have faith.



Wow genius!! I thought of that too when i was in junior high! Not the evil bit though, saying evil is the absence of God is like saying that hunger is the absence of the Zabarakalabadaba in your stomach? What's Zabarakalabadaba you say? Why, it's the God that makes you full after eating food! Illogical!? Well, i have faith!!! You can't prove me wrong!!!

Does this clear anything up? I really hate that story. My friend posted it on her blog and everyone was like OMG IN SCIENCE'S FACE!!! Meanwhile, i'm

****************
Back to the topic it's true that many of us have deviated from the teachings but sometimes, i just don't think they make sense. No offence to anyone here but i don't understand why we have to pay the church. Why not just run on donations not forced?

I disagree with how sometimes in buddhist religious ceremonies you get to write what you wish for on a piece of paper that you buy and it may come true.

I understand that in the old days the church ran on a sort of communism. Wealth was shared. It's not anymore, so why pay? If we don't will we go to Hell?