i am just going to be honest here.. it actually scares me, to think of what our future Drs are going to be after reading the few recent posts here..

i could possibly be one of their patients one day, and i wish things will turn out ok. perhaps i may have to screen test the Drs first before they actually screen test me in the future..

well valens, have some faith!!!

has there been any case that a houseman was suspended or barred from treating patients?

yes........

this is an internal email in a major gov hospital, names deleted......so you all know........

===================================
From: xxx
Sent: Thursday, 10 September, 2009 2:24 PM
To: xxx
Subject: FW： HO issue



Dear all,



Not H1N1 but something more deadly than it if we are not careful....



Our department like other department are filled with houseman



What I would like to point out is that the HO now are taking things for granted, as too many of them pushing responsibilities to another HO when things happen..



I am very concerned with the 'attitude" of the HO nowadays...they just have no sense of responsibilities and some don't use their "brain" at all



You can laugh aloud if you can find one good HO out of ten nowadays... frankly speaking



The thing of concern is :

1. Taggers HO do not show all the case they clerk to the MO on call - how can this happen? One of my patient ( a staff in Pharmacy ) admitted for Ct guided biopsy on Sunday and it was stated in the form - to take the necessary test. A responsible HO will clerk, take the blood and trace the blood make sure it is ready with the patient when he goes down for the procedure the next day. But it doesn't materalize that way - the suppose HO oncall that day and MO on call don't know anything about the case - poor man was kept NPO till pm only have his biopsy done!!! Imagine how would you feel if you are the patient yourself- do you want such treatment- such an irresponsible act? I am now the vilian among the HO - I scolded them and try to find out what went wrong - I found out that the HO who clerk the patient is a tagger ( day 5 of life, 1st poster from "Ukraine" Uni ) clerked the case - as usual blurr - didn't show to any MO and pass over the case properly to HO on call even. Why is this happening? where is the governence? I asked the HO to apologize to the patient and I will ask the patient myself if he did that ( as and act to show that he really acknowledge his mistake and take responsibility for that )



2. Nowadays, you have to ask the HO to go and trace result ( an important result ) and it is not a volunteer act of responsibilities. Time change, you may call it generation gap



This is serious matter and if we don't rectify this problem, it will fall upon us when this HO---> MO and posted to district. They will come back and haunt you again and who even know, you may be under their care one day - "you will have to pray hard they don't kill you with their act of ignorance???"



I believe our MO are too benign, all soft spoken and in the end, this is the result. The voice is not heard - long goes are the general, captain days.....



If the HO is wrong, please tell them so. Please do not tolerate such attitude / behaviour. Nice pat on their back will not solve the problem!



Make sure they are properly briefed - especially those from "Ukraine" and "cocky fella" who thinks they are top student of respective universities



I suggest :

1. All taggers must present the cases they clerk and their management plan to MO on call

2. All taggers must pass over the case to HO on call

3. Each HO must be hold responsible for the case under their care ( so they must clerk, take blood, trace the investigation result daily and report progress to the MO ) - no share share

4. HO must see all the cases before the MO ( that means they must come early - no more 7.30am, see the case with MO ) There is so many of them and the number of patient is so little. Anyway, they have very few calls, should have enough sleep compare to MO/ us last time.

5. The specialist and MO should be more strict with them - do not tolerate non-sense

6. A responsible HO is a person who accept his mistake and not making excuses. If the HO is finding excuses for his mistake, please reprimand him..



It really saddens me... when I see how things are evolving. We can choose not to care but I think we need to care and do something before things get worst!



Rgds,

Where are your worries come from? Thanks!

We are students,if there is any misconception about what we learn is acceptable.As long as the students willing to find out the answer is consider good.

You should have confident to the future doctors here,most of them are very helpful and open minded. We have exposed to so many cases regarding the irresponsible of HO.So,that is very good reminder to us before we become HO.

This post has been edited by MBBS siang: Sep 13 2009, 09:27 AM

the other area of concern is the motivation of young doctors from henceforth......

>20 years ago, there are no private med schools, education even overseas like uk/oz was virtually free. even those who went to india pay relatively little. over the last 15 years fees have increased significantly........now, with the mushrooming of med schools both locally and overseas, and high fees private med education, young doctors will have paid anyway between a quarter to over a million ringgit for their education.......

there is going to be a very strong urge to recoup this investment as quick as possible.......this will change the way medicine is practiced.......and ethics and patients will be the victims.......

all we need is to have 10% of young doctors compromising ethics.....(the figure is likely to be more than 10%, based on normal human behaviour and motivation)........

yes, there are very strong grounds to be concerned.........

This is very true.I totally agree with this.The bolded part is highly concerned.The patients shouldn't be the victims in order for a young doctor to compensate their investment or gain more than that. The most important thing to be concerned must be the ethics.The doctor wanna be should understand what they are going to learn is not just the medical knowledge but the passion to care.

All the ethics are come from the "passion to care".My mum always remind me,when I graduate as a doctor don't put the money as the priority and please care your patients properly because she is going to be our future patients.

So,every doctor wannabe please bear in mind.When we start to do something irresponsible to the patient please think of it for a while.Will you still do the same things if the patient is our parents or siblings.(touch wood)

Of course, I will always remind me and keep me away from "syaitan"! Don't let the "investment" as a motivation to make us to be the hantu later on.

This post has been edited by MBBS siang: Sep 13 2009, 11:06 AM

Valens don't worry. Not ALL medical students will end up with a licence to save*or kill* lives. My lecturers did mention about the % of medical students failing to get their licence to practice, but sadly I've forgotten the actual figure.

scary letter indeed. has this been a trend? the more older generation not liking the current generation and think they are incompetent? or its just getting very bad over the last couple of years.

i guess HO/MO years they can't really rush through and make money quick. they have capped pay but i guess not following procedure is a serious offense. judging by my nature, i really hope i'm more aware and hope to excel during HO/MO years which are the years that really make the big difference in a doctor's career right?

hmm, oh yeah does any patient have the right to know where their HO or MO has graduated from? i mean i highly doubt it, but can a patient in a public hospital request for a different ho or mo?!? if thats the case alot of 3rd world med graduates are gonna be screwed over if the whole stereotype plays through.

there has always been incompetent doctors before.......typically they come from india (i know some people are going to flame me for this!), but some from ipta as well, as entry into ipta can be suspect as well, and very poor students passed..........

it will become increasing problem, with the mass of newly minted doctors from ukraine, russia, india, indonesia etc......as these places takes in some very very lousy students.......

the ipts upstart med schools are little better, based on the kind of students they accept........

yes, it is an increasing problem, due to the numbers, and proportions......recently, the dg of health revealed 15% of housemans in gov hospitals were incompetent..........ie, cannot function at all........usually due to very poor knowledge........this proportion will increase........

This post has been edited by limeuu: Sep 13 2009, 06:35 PM

oh my god, who wants to go to government hosp liddat? cannot function at all = ? what have they been learning in med school? at least something right?! normal GP work? normal Antibiotics? recognising potential life threatening diseases? and, ASK when they dont know ? zz

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Added on September 13, 2009, 7:03 pmto be honest, and to be frank, i know someone's gonna bang me for this but yea, if i'm good, i think i deserve $$ for that.

This post has been edited by cygoh9: Sep 13 2009, 07:03 PM

if one's a good and competent doctor, i don't mind paying him more being a patient myself. =) I reckon what he was saying is that don't let the $$$ issue be the main driving force behind the pursuing of medicine. I've heard cases of doctors doing 'rallies' just so that they can earn more money, ie they rushed in diagnosing and prescribing drugs for the patient (some just asking them "what drugs you want.") and literally shoo-ing the patient away so that they can see more patients. more patients = more $$. Not sure how true is that, but I've heard such sad news.

It is immaterial that "[n]ot ALL medical students will end up with a licence to[...] kill lives". 1 is too many.

We need ALL doctors to be competent, not just a few who can "just" do "normal GP work/normal Antibiotics/recognising potential life threatening diseases"

agree that 1 is too many. Well in the end it all comes down to ourselves as a medical student/doctor, whether we opt to be a competent one, or an incompetent one who only knows the basic GP work/antibiotics. I can't ensure you what category i will fall into but I'm definitely striving hard to be in the competent group =)

hi all~
i need to buy a book from kamal
anyone going there anytime soon?
i can COD at IMU or puchong~

That's an "ideal situation", which is, highly unlikely to be achieved in .. our beloved, country.

Nobody will bang you. You deserve to get what you want as you are good enough. The most important thing here is don't run away from your main route and ethnic,it should be ok .

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Added on September 13, 2009, 10:11 pmNot only our country but all over the world.

This post has been edited by MBBS siang: Sep 13 2009, 10:11 PM

Hi all, I'm reporting for the first time here! =)

I'm from IMU, finished 5th sem and did my BMedSci, waiting to transfer to UQ...

+Sep 13 2009, 11:30 PM-->name added in the list
welcome to this thread
welcome to LYN as well

This post has been edited by chika138: Sep 13 2009, 11:42 PM

Hi thanks =)

Bear in mind that GPs are far more knowledgeable and well trained than a typical freshie HO or even a first year MO... so honestly, if one can do everything that a competent GP can do the moment he/she graduates then it's good enough than most of his/her peers.

People (both layperson and sometimes fellow medical personnel) have the misconception that GPs only know how to treat cough and cold and prescribe antibiotics. Nevertheless, a competent GP's greatest achievement is to manage patients in the community and prevent them from ending up in the wards; and most of them manage to do that. Manage one's HbA1c and BP well and chances are you'll do more good for the patient and their family than performing a CABG everyday.

This post has been edited by StarGhazzer: Sep 14 2009, 05:33 AM