QUOTE(Dickson Poon @ Jul 28 2009, 06:36 PM)
Hobbes, thank you for taking the time to write out and elaborate on those points you've raised, which are indeed valid concerns.
Do allow me to address some issues you've raised.
Hi Dickson, my appologies i'll skip all the formality and jump right into business if you dont mind
QUOTE(Dickson Poon @ Jul 28 2009, 06:36 PM)
First of all, elitism.
Elitism certainly exists here in this forum. It exists in the cadres and bands of Kopitiam people regularly making incursions here and posting nonsense just for laughs, because they are separate from the concerns of the members here and their own wants and needs for "lulz" over-rides any importance of having proper discourse in this forum. They are part of a privileged, "in" group of trolls and dupes who come in here to feel SUPERIOR to the people here.
Not all Kopitiam members are like this, of course. Only the ones who think that Cupids Corner should always remain a subordinate section of Kopitiam with
no function or purpose of its own, because in that way CC shall remain always as their personal playgrounds.
Is this elitism? I think that it is.
I beg to differ,
trolls and
clowns operate on a different playing field as elitism, they dont come in here to feel supperior, they come in to have fun by making fun of others.
Regardless of which forums you go, there'll be a small community of clowns and trolls lurking somewhere, you wont be able to get rid of them, period.
People says
when the buying stops, the killing stops in this context i'll rephrase it as
when the feeding stops, the trolling stopsStop feeding them what what they aimed for and slowly you'll see the numbers dwindle
Easier said than done, i know i did refrained from feeding them and its not easy
And now something for those who wants or talk about changes and making this place a better place without
trolls or clowns]/i] to ponder on;
Some wise man once said
Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself, did we really walk the talk or talk the talk by not feeding the trolls in the first place?
So another wise man once said
The journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step, and make sure that single step was taken by you and not some one else, have those who keeps whining about trolls and clowns taken that very first step by not feeding them or are they some one who only thinks about changing the world to suit them and not the other way round? Perhaps another example of elitism?
To further illustrate my point above, please allow me to use some of my very crude example once again.
Now there's talk about reducing carbon foot print, so these so called pioneers and leaders in carbon reducing campaigns jets off in first class seats, conducts seminars and meetings in fully air conditioned rooms, fully and brightly lit seminar rooms and excursions by vehicles to sites and places.
You think i'd be interested to hear what they have got to say?
I'll be more inclined to join their cause or at least stop by and listen if they were to walk/cycle/drive a solar vehicle and conduct seminars under bright sunlights outdoor.
Is it not what we are seeing here in CC?
As for my own opinions of
clowns i dont resent them, i'll explain in due time.
QUOTE(Dickson Poon @ Jul 28 2009, 06:36 PM)
Elitism also exists among the members of SC who confine themselves entirely to chat threads and who seldom venture out into the broader forum, because, in their own words, it is, and has always been "lame", and thus it is below them to even step foot in there. They are above such petty concerns, and they have already carved out a comfortable niche in these chat threads where everything is alright, and thus, by extension, everything else must also be just as it should be. They have extrapolated a picture of absolute serenity based on the condition of their comfortable little fiefdoms.
Is this not another form of elitism? I think it certainly qualifies.
I cannot say for the rest of the SC members, but I for sure do practice that and i certainly do have my own reasons for not venturing out into the broader forum in CC and far from what you have described as per above.
Noticed how all the genuine problem threads are mostly one sided i.e. one party complaining, everyone starts jumping into conclusion and starts dishing out advices based on assumptions?
My question is can we start judging a relationship and starts dishing advices when we have only heard one side of the story?
Guilty without trials or innocent until proven?
Example you may ask?
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1110341/+20I've even more questions to ask than to contribute; for example, what transpire her to cheat, is the TS proven to be innocent or he too plays a role in what transpired, have the accused given a chance to defend herself and so forth, i guess i'll skip the remainder of my questions, i guess you get the idea. Something for us to ponder on, are we part of the solution or part of people's problem.
Now in this context i guess by not jumping into conclusion and further compounding the TS problem with wrong solutions via a half baked diagnosis is the best contribution, no?
Noticed how relationship experts differ from our so called experts or contributors, its the real deal experts asked both parties in for an interview inidvidually and asseses their grouses/claims (perhaps even their close friends will be called in) and then have both parties in together to give them advices and opinions
Sometimes people with relationship problems may not even need a solution, relationship is not maths, it doesnt neccesarily needs a solution. Allow me to illustrate my point in a crudely manner as usual
We have 2 individuals A and B both married or in a relationship, A have grouses with his/her other half, and the other party is not in the mood to discuss yet.
Most of A's circle of friends knows B and some are close to him/her, A does not wants to misled/change his friends point of view on B through his rants, neither is he comfortable to rant with strangers/not so close friends in real life.
He/she comes into CC and rant anonymously, here comes the part where we in CC can contribute, is to lend an ear or perhaps eyes in this matter and not starts to judge/advice or go morally right or wrong.
Silence can be a virtue.
Now as usual a few
clowns or
trolls jumps in and post
Tits or gtfo or along the lines of those one liners post we are so often used to see.
Who knows those one liners may have cracked the TS up and lighten his bluesy day?
In this context i'd say they certainly did contributed to this small community in a way as compare to those who practiced the hollier than thou and all self justified morally right posts.
Hence my earlier statement that i do not resent
trolls and
clownsPoint in case poisonous snakes can be a hazard to human, but look at the bigger picture; they do contribute to the ecosystem by reducing the amount of rats.
All that glitters is not goldIf you think their posts are all rubbish, think again, there's always recycling.
Another misconception that most people in chat threads spams rubbish and only confine themselves in that little space without any tangible contribution to this small little community.
Chat threads are there for various reasons, I shall not waste your time by pointing out the obvious reasons, but would love to share some of the less obvious ones with you.
Some people have problems confiding to strangers especially those pertaining to sensitive and confidential issues. Chat threads can be a way to break the ice and when people with problems are comfortable with certain members of the thread, its easier for them to spill the beans albeit on a private basis perhaps via pm, msn and so forth.
I've borrowed my partially impaired ears to some people in CC on issues ranging from sex to work related issues chipping in my 0.000002 rupiah worth of opinions when ever i can via private channels like pm.
In case you are thinking to challenge me on the above point for prove, no i dont have prove nor do i need to. I'll gladly admit that i'm a liar, after all i am one who dont believe in divulging people's confidentiality to back one's credibility and betraying their trusts in the process.
Also I am aware that certain members do contribute to this little community on a quiet basis that way and are also members of SC, hints: nicknames starting with
S and
PQUOTE(Dickson Poon @ Jul 28 2009, 06:36 PM)
Next, the imposition of conformity of thought and behavior on an entire forum population.
This is a knee-jerk reaction motivated only by fear and insecurity. There is so much diversity and differences in opinion here that such a thing would NEVER be possible. Any attempt to do so is bound to fail.
Creating structure and form and defining the purpose and direction of the forum does not necessarily automatically mean benefiting the few at the expense of the many. It does not mean one group coming into power at the expense of another. These are vulgar thought processes because they fail to look at things beyond their importance to the self. In short, this knee-jerk reaction is a selfish one motivated by insecurity and the fear of the loss of power.
Please ask yourself what sort of power or prestige you could truly lose in a forum.
Then ask yourself if that's as important as providing this section with more focus, filtering out the noise and chaff so that it fulfils the purpose it is meant to fulfil, which is NOT to be some person's personal playground or fiefdom.
Again a misconception and thoughts derived from assumptions.
There's nothing for those who resent points you've made to loose.
In the
clowns and
trolls case, they can always migrate to another forum or lay low for the time being they have yet to loose any freedom or potential fun at all.
Still i dont resent them for reasons i've illustrated in my above point.
They'll certainly be back,like they always do, prove can be had if you lurk long enough in kopitiam.
Again we can never achieve a 100% perfect environment that suits everyone.
I'll illustrate my above point with yet again another crude example.
In an agriculture environment, we can never have a 100% yield throughput all the time, we are bound to have deseases and pest invasions every now and then, the only defensive method we can apply is to use pesticides to safe guard our investments.
Now National Geographic Magazine ran an article some time ago about food supplies specifically grains, during the 70s or thereabout, in order to feed the amount of people, we turned to scientific methods which seemingly did more good than harm and almost doubling production throughput.
Today we are paying the price of what seems to be a good change 30 years ago.
Our waters and grains are so poluted with pesticides and artificial fertilizers that certain villages are now in dire need of fresh clean water.
Its also linked with health hazards like cancers.
We are also facing overpopulation spurred by cheaply available grains back then.
So i ask, would changes like filtering all the noise and chaffs be seemingly good now but do more harm in the long run as the above example?
See how dead and boring RWI is?
Having said that, i have been a member of certain groups in real life and almost always groups disbanded or defacto factions formed because a certain few members with this elitist attitude tries to forced their point of view of how it would be better for the group collectively down the majoritie's throat.
Again i ask would it be better to let nature takes it own course and the majority of the people here to dictate the environment and direction of this small little community?
Perhaps that explains the resentment here?
QUOTE(Dickson Poon @ Jul 28 2009, 06:36 PM)
Thirdly, we are not talking about "change", and that makes the necessity of a poll entirely superfluous. Please look back at my earlier posts. They are about
1. Providing form and structure
2. to cater to a
diversity of opinions, perspectives and personal characters
3. to provide Cupid's Corner with more focus and direction rather than just "existing"
4. and we have not yet even discussed how this may yet be achieved
5. nevermind that it requires participation and collective effort from a BROAD number of people to make it happen
So please, less assumptions based entirely on knee-jerk reactions.
Its still about change no?
As in a change of direction to achieve your said form, structure, focus and environment which are different from what it is now, no?
IMHO CC has never lost its form, structure or focus.
We are still what we are in providing a place for people to hook up, get to know each other more, a place to rant, a place to seek relationships related opinions and consultation, a hideout for those too tensed from their daily relationship be it in love, family or work and a place for them to unwind.
We are still a caring small little community minus the annoyance that comes every now and then which we can never eradicate.
Its the way the delivery of the above said goals varies from time to time depending on the majority type of members we have here at certain point in time.
Again an example to illustrate my above point.
10/20 years ago or at least during my time, we are not to question our teachers and we are not to disrespect our teachers by treating them as friend.
Whatever the teacher forces down your throat is gospel of truth and its good for you.
See how much has changed today?
Lecturers hangs out with their students, talks like friends via msn, sms and so forth in order to understand their students individually and administering help and educating from a friend's point of view instead of the ancient corporal punishment method?
Have we deviate from our goal in education?
Certainly not, we are still learning and educating albeit in a different form, much like CC
If it does not fits your notion of an ideal environment, form, focus or goals doesnt neccesarily means we have deviate from what we are and visions that we strive to achieve.
Perhaps its a wake up call for some of us here to adapt and evolve much like how life has been for millions of years; adapting and evolving to fit the environment and not by forcing the environment to change to suit us.
A house divided against itself cannot stand the same can be said for our small little community here.
In lieu of whining for a better CC, if you guys are serious why not walk the talk instead of talk the talk?
I'll take the initiative and start the ball rolling by suggesting some one go put together a piece of guide of how to ask questions constructively
Noticed how many forumers who genuinely have problems and expects serious/constructive answers but clueless when comes to asking questions constructively thus leading to half baked answers or spams?
Perhaps include some block diagrams to illustrate why a half baked questions will lead to half baked answers?
How to avoid that pitfall?
How to ask constructively and information needed before advice/help can be administered?
p/s Ezra take note, i know you have been aiming for a stickied thread, perhaps this may your answer
Jul 25 2009, 08:16 PM, updated 17y ago
Quote
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and thanks teongpeng.
each mod will surely interact in their section. other section, no choice la we just have to attend to report and post notice if needed.
time for the CC to move to a higher lvl.
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