Hawk says:
woiw
you're expecting a proper discussion in kopitiam?

Baronic says:
haha
yea
its funny tho
to see how people straight think about doing siblings
incest doesnt mean doing siblings at all
it has nothing to do with shagging

Hawk says:
it leads to shagging

Baronic says:
why would it?
it seems to be a common misconception

Hawk says:
if it didn't, it wouldn't be that sort of relationship
lol
I love my sister

Baronic says:
u could always adopt

Hawk says:
but I have no sexual/reproductive thoughts of her

Baronic says:
me neither
but its food for thought
i';m just asking why is it wrong

Hawk says:
so the dynamics of the relationship is different lol
society views it as taboo for the obvious birth defect problem

Baronic says:
yes, so what if the relationship produced no offspring
even, abstinence if u must, would it still be taboo?

Hawk says:
well personally im fine with it being with offspring or not
one step leads to another
that's how society rules always works
so they try to stop it from starting

Baronic says:
hmmm
why the bias that it leads to another

Hawk says:
its a generalisation, that is often true

Baronic says:
i've heard of clergymen who are married but practice abstinence for example

Hawk says:
look at it on the larger scale
rather than on the individual scale
then the rules starts to make sense
which is why pre-marital sex rules came about
the whole "only have sex with the person you love", "marriage is sacred" "its special" etc. etc. is really a smoke screen

Baronic says:
hmmmm touche
now lets says, despite the taboo, the couple goes ahead
and proves to be capable of abstinence
should they be shunned by society?
is incest wrong, in THAT case

Hawk says:
they shouldn't, but they will be
to preserve the integrity of the "rule"
if they're lucky
the society they're in will turn a blind eye to it
and just ignore/tolerate

Baronic says:
they shouldnt, but they will be u say, to preserve the integrity of the rule
elaborate?

Hawk says:
if society excepts the acception
*accepts
sorry I just came back from a drinking session lol
*accepts the exception
it sets a precedent
which others may choose to follow
and if they allowed one exception
why not others?
then the rule starts to fall apart

Baronic says:
it sounds very objective
but while in objectivity, it makes sense
the taboo appears to be more on an emotional level

Hawk says:
people get emotional about rules

Baronic says:
something like, blind faith, following the herd, he says she says they say its wrong, so i follow
Hawk says:
they grew up with those rules

Baronic says:
without really thinking about it

Hawk says:
and when ppl break those rules
and it gets "accepted"
they themselves can't accept it
cause it would more or less
invalidate their entire life
of course if your mental capacity is higher, this wouldn't affect you
but the majority of population do not have that capacity

Baronic says:
society norms can change, for example lesbianism and gays. what it needed was precendence i believe
Hawk says:
yea, slowly
so you see the point of setting precedence

Baronic says:
yes. actually i do see that the percentage of incestual relationships has increased
some has offspring, some dont
while its frowned upon
the increase itself is sort of like an exclaimation mark
because its what happened at the dawn of gay-ism and lesbianism
i think if society, on the whole, stopped the herd mentality, and really thought for a moment

Hawk says:
we're far... far... from that mark

Baronic says:
it would actually be fine for incestual relationships PROVIDED there is no offsprings

Hawk says:
even the support for gays and all that

Baronic says:
do u agree with that?

Hawk says:
exhibit herd mentality
as I said, im fine with incestual relationships, with/without offsprings

Baronic says:
yea
its not fair to ask, if you'd have incestual relationships with your sister of course, simple because you dont have that sort of feelings
and to ask it is not an argument at all. rather an evasion of a debate

Hawk says:
if i recall
there's a biological component to prevent incest

Baronic says:
what do u mean? the genetical problems?

Hawk says:
think of it from a evolutionary perspective
you get attracted to certain fitness rules
likewise when it comes to genetics
we can actually "detect" difference in genetics
although we don't realise it
so ppl with the same genetics
tend to not attract us

Baronic says:
yes, science has shown that sweat actually holds some truth in what u said. u will not be find the faint smell of sweat from the person with the same immune system appealing.
but what has that gotta do with incest?

Hawk says:
you could view it as a physiological defect
or a social disorder
i don't have solid evidence
but i would bet
that people with incestual relationships
tend to not be very well adjusted socially

Baronic says:
hmmm
isnt that because of society itself, shunning them?

Hawk says:
no
i would hazard a good guess
its because they can't compete on normal terms
so they do the next best thing
sibling love -> sexual love
since love already exists between siblings
its just missing one component
so they use that instead
as its the easy way out

Baronic says:
owh, i get what you mean now
i got mixed up with which came first, social disorder or incestual relationships
good point
how about the scenario where you find out your fiance, is, on the eve of your wedding, your long lost sibling
the social misfit theory wouldnt fit then

Hawk says:
irrelevant
cause at that point
you've passed the stages already

Baronic says:
sorry, what is irrelevant? which stages u referring to?

Hawk says:
the stages of attraction, building the rapport and so on
psychology plays a part in this as well
if you didnt know its your sister
you would treat her like a normal lady
but if u knew beforehand
you probably wouldn't pursue it
but once you're already in it
I really don't see why it shouldn't continue

Baronic says:
true true
haha, i take my hats off to u dude

Hawk says:
what u doing wearing a hat in the house
lol

Baronic says:
its been bloody fun, i never had such a fun debate since high school, mind if i share this and use i as material for my next blog post?

Hawk says:
sure no prob