"Being nice" is waaaaayyy over-rated.

Yeap, its a bane in our current society. Being nice is a preferable, but we also need to know how to mix and handle people who aren't nice to us. It is essential to our social lives. If we only stick around people who are nice, or make people conform to our conceptions of nice, we're not being social creatures, we're being anti-social.

I din mention his point doesnt mean i miss them out. I admit i did focus on the crude part as I personally think that ppl will respect you and take your opinion if you respect others.




Well, i couldn't agree with you more. But but that only works with people who have trained their minds very well and can approach truth with some objectivity. But not me, I'm categorized in those 'under educated' and I cant use my mind like u do.

Here is a can of tuna Hobbes, you deserved it!

Point 1
If I were to question every poster's track record regarding flaming and crudeness, there are one or few times where each of us falter, myself included. As much as I try my very best to post with tact, without bias and on topic, I mostly fail on the tact part when I deem the topic to be redundant or plain silly or the OP is being plain lazy expecting people to spoon feed. (Case1: "What should I buy my girlfriend for her birthday" which I replied : A brain for yourself - but let's not digress to the reasons behind that)

On a personal basis, one thing I find about this forum is that the assumed authority of some posters that they have enough nerve to tell a person to break up that relationship. Barring blood relations, I frankly do not think anyone has authority to tell someone else "Hey, you two should break up".
Given the fact that there are obvious, blaring red alert signals, at most I feel, we should just let them know "I sincerely think you should re-evaluate your relationship. This are the reasons , bla bla bla"

TLDR: I think one clean up is that we shouldn't give an ultimatum to people to break up. We do not own /posses these people whom are asking for second opinions.

On Walking the Talk
Dickson has expressed intention to change this forum for the better. Having said that some people nailed him stating that he wants to change environment but not himself. Refer to Point 1, no one is innocent of once in a while flaming, clown post, joke post, but at least for myself, I try to keep this minimal. With that in mind, at least Dickson has started the ball rolling am I right? Is there any reason to nail the person for starting the ball rolling?
If I started the same topic, I'd come under fire too for my flaming post some here and some in Health and Fitness. I have disagreed with Dickson of a few points, but do you see the each of us going for each other's throat? We are matured enough to agree to disagree. No one is wanting a "Yes Man".

Summary: No one is innocent. To the very least Dickson put actions to his thought.

On The board is OK / The board is Not OK
I guess this is subjective. I think it isn't OK where as others think it is. I suppose the best way is to carry out a poll and see how it leads to. I personally would like to see most if not all spam and nonsensical replies removed. I'm perfectly OK with the Real World Issues policy enforced but I am sensitive enough to know that many many many of you will be uncomfortable with that type of conduct, therefore somewhere in the middle. Jokes and laughs, minor poking around but absolutely no spam or nonsensical replies such as "tits of GTFO" "mana drill" "face problem" "you're hopeless" "wang and ah moi nonsense" "break off la" and the list goes on.

Summary: Requires in depth thinking and poll.

On Real versus Virtual
One argument which I noticed is that, some might say, I prefer to focus on real life friends and help them out rather than a virtual medium. Granted there is merit in it but can one vector take precedence over another? Allow me to explain.
Behind every nickname, every MMORPG sprite and every 2 d character is another living, breathing human being.
The vector of communication is via the internet rather than face to face, but remove the vector - the principle remains. Two individuals interacting.
How is it different from writing snail males, talking on the phone, talking face to face? It isn't. It is basically preference.
My policy is simple, wherever and whenever possible via whatever means, if there is an opportunity to assist someone, I will do it.

Some might frown upon the idea seeking advice on the internet with argument that Internet is SRZ BNZ YO

But hear this, for some whom have few friends, who aren't close to their family members and have no one else to confide or seek advice to, faceless nicknames are their best options. A drowning man grabs even a straw

The problem here is that trolls in CC are not the ones seeking advice form him. He has come forward to lash out at their behavior and demands a change in CC. The people the Dickson needs to communicate with are those trolls who troll around.

Lets assume my mom is a thief. One day she catches me stealing and gives me a good lecture. But after that I continue to see her stealing. So what do I learn? It's indeed ok to steal.

So seriously it doesn't matter if there's a wealth of information in whatever he write. What we're telling him is that the people he wants to change aren't going to change if he continues acting the way he does.

This is not a question about following a weaker over the stronger advice or following the nice over the harsh.

In all sincerity numeichan, from my observations and interactions with Dickson, I have no qualms with him whatsoever. I only notice him getting agitated with the posters whom I deem are not using their brains when they post nonsensical replies. I get agitated too when I read these type of replies because they are too silly.

It is as if the replies had no thought put into it and that bugs the heck out of me. God given brains to use, but choose not to use and result in silly actions/replies.

You don't see Dickson and Hawk arguing even though Hawk calls him Mr Poonani do you? Yeah I can call Hawk - Cawk and he can call me Fartsu.
I think you're addressing him only when he replies to idiot posts.
On the whole Dickson is fine.

Anyone would get slightly defensive when something is said personally to them right? You me included?

I don't think anyone here is nailing Dickson or his initial suggestion per se. What we're nailing is his approach to his objective. I don't think anyone here want to make CC worse. But not everyone one thinks CC need any major changes. If Dickson wants changes so badly, then it's up to him to convince other forumers and the mods for a change. He can't expect people to simple go up in arms with him.
I am one person who thinks CC is fine the way it is. A little bit of trolling here and there is ok for me. I do enjoy reading hatekiasuppl's stories now and then. I certainly don't hope that CC ends up like RWI. However, if Dickson shoot everyone who question him back with brainless, asshat, I dont need to talk to you, we have nothing to lose. CC just stays the way with it is and we're happy.

Respect is not deserved, respect is earned.

That's bullshit. If as you say, the mind is trained, then why don't you train your mind like that? Why do you just give up? That, is a pathetic excuse.


I'm talking about his posts in the forums, not limited within this topic. Some of my posts are deemed to be rather rude as well, but a lot of the people here deserve it, and heck some even need it. Being nice simply plays into their comfort zone... it will not illicit change in it.


Do you really learn its ok to steal? No, you learn that your mom is a hypocrite. Perhaps you could say the same of mr. poonani, but that doesn't invalidate what he is saying. He doesn't have to be the one to actually lead the change, as long as he acts as the catalyst. He can be a hypocrite for all I care, but what he says makes sense. Those who can make changes will start to make changes.

I don't expect the trolls to change, you can't change people. What we can do, is make them feel unwelcome here, and they will go away by themselves.

It depends on the how effective is the lecture. If it make sense to me i will stop stealing...and even if she continue to steal...i wouldnt change my mind to think that stealing is ok. But so what do i learn? I learn that shes a hypocrite.

EDIT: silverhawk!!!!!!!!!!! why u always beat me to it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This post has been edited by teongpeng: Jul 29 2009, 02:22 PM

u is unker, type too slow

Sorry mods, earlier I posted something here in response to something but now I've changed my mind because my point just can't get across and I'm happy with CC the way it is. Since I can't delete the post this is the best I can do. GL guys in making CC a better place!

This post has been edited by mumeichan: Jul 29 2009, 02:51 PM

The problem lies in the assumption that he wants to change those people. I don't believe I ever seen him say he wants to change people.

then i dunno what he means by "then we must take on the responsibility of effecting it" if he doesn't want to change cc he won't create this thread rite ?

Well, those people u state above, they are not trying to make CC a great place. They are merely sharing their thought and advice to person who need, I dun see any "great" on it, i mean it can be done by any 1. If all the sharing u did is to show how "great" u are, then yes, i shud insult u for being a lifeless creature.

Thanks silverhawk! Indeed, I have never said such a thing.

By the way mumeichan,



It has nothing to do with "your point can't get across". Your premises and assumptions have been proven wrong, thus invalidating your entire argument.

You have been OWNED.

---

Added on July 29, 2009, 5:08 pmSo, who are you talking about? Did you even read the posts or did you immediately have an allergic reaction and speak from your other end?

This post has been edited by Dickson Poon: Jul 29 2009, 05:08 PM

aiyaa little boy dont simplysimply say like that. its true anyone can give advice but must see the quality ma. those fellas although intention not to make CC great but their contribution really make this place more bearable. And indirectly they are making CC great.

Now u go and say they are not great then later u got problem u start a new topic, these fellas dont come and help you then how? u get all the bernard7 la....all the monashguy la.....all those fellas ask u to give up for no reason laa....then how? Now faster slap your left and right cheek and say sorry. faster.

By the way guys, thanks for your two cents. You know who you are. I kowtow.

I sincerely doubt there was anything I could have said to convince or reason with a people already so immediately hostile and threatened.

Perhaps one day I shall learn what to do, apart from immediately kicking them in the fundaments.

---

Added on July 29, 2009, 5:54 pm



I certainly don't mind. Your selective perception and bias is showing quite transparently.



Lol, so trolls and clowns are just misunderstood people?
Here's a clue: the "elitism" and feelings of superiority you've ironically accused OTHERS of having have been self-professed by a large number of trolls, dupes and clowns who make forays into CC at various times. Interesting how you've been able to ignore this.



You are wrong. There are plenty of boards and communities out there which have no trolls, simply because they have no SPACE for trolls. Not feeding trolls is not as important as not giving them a space to even exist.

The status with Cupid's Corner now is that there is the letter of the law, but not the spirit, and everybody thus conforms only to the rule. You can't swear in here, you can't call an obtuse jackass a dipshit, you can't ask a troll to eat shit and die, but trolls and dupes in here CAN use passive aggressive tactics to derail entire threads, drown out reasoning with meaningless noise and traffic, and band up in brute displays of might being right, simply because you have no rules against these things.

Ask yourself what does the status quo favor? Is it really the bastion of free speech and expression you CLAIM it is?

No. You stand for the status quo and the preferential treatment it already confers to a select group of people. This is elitism.


Your entire argument places the responsibility of conduct on everybody BUT the trolls themselves. In a way, you have given them a free pass to be above the conducts of behavior that everyone else must abide by, for the simple reason that you see no real way to "control" them.

All of this talk about changing oneself, walking the talk, etc, smacks too much of the GANDHIAN fallacy. Fact: Gandhi was powerless to end the caste system, after Martin Luther King was assassinated his movement was hijacked by COINTELPRO because the movement relied too much on saints and representatives, Jesus Christ supposedly died on a cross but neither Christianity nor Islam nor Judaism nor Buddhism has done anything against institutional cruelty such as SLAVERY, genocide, and countless other abuses these supposed bastions of purity and righteousness were against. In fact these religions and institutions enriched themselves by it.

And all this while, we are fed platitudes much like your own, such as "Let the one without sin cast the first stone".

In the end it was not the inward-looking man minding his own business trying to emulate a saint that has abolished slavery and ended warfare between nations.

In the end it was the WILL of a people. The priests and the monks and supposed ascetics and holy men benefiting from the status quo have always known this, and thus such a meme, that a man must first become a saint and be wholly pure first and foremost or hold his tongue and leave things be, is encouraged for the singular reason that it is an impossible and counter-productive standard to achieve.



How smug. You are comparing apples to oranges. Perhaps the question you should truly be asking is why these people are advocating cosmetic forms of "change" even while maintaining the status quo. Perhaps they profit from it in some way?

Maintaining the status quo, Hobbes. Does that ring a bell? Rofl!



Put your money where your mouth is, and create that diagram. Or start a discussion on its feasibility with the genuine intent of getting feedback. That is a form of leading by example, and you do not need to be pure and saintly to do so. Poor you if some jackasses find the need to make shift the debate into one about your personal character.

LMAO!

This post has been edited by Dickson Poon: Jul 29 2009, 06:01 PM

He wants to change CC, but that doesn't mean he wants to change the trolls in it. There are more than simply trolls in here, and this topic is meant to be a discussion. There are many ways which we may help clean up CC a bit, and here is where we discuss them. I don't see why people are attacking his character rather than trying to turn this into a fruitful discussion.

Thank you for explaining. You made the correct choice. If you are not confident that you are getting the true picture, if you feel that the information you are receiving is suspect and incomplete, then it is indeed correct to refrain from believing it wholesale.

There are limits to what we can understand and can do, and it is good for you, I, and everybody to understand this.



You give far too little credit to the ones you call "our so called experts or contributors".

I know a lot of very balanced, mature, experienced, wise and emphatic contributors here, and I hope that they're not on your list of "so called experts" just because they are not in the vocation of giving out professional advice.



Or we can say things as it they are, as has been done by many good contributors here. We can point out the insecurities and biases that color the poster's opinions and rants, the better that he or she may REFLECT on this and help make the relationship less dramatic and more rewarding.

You favor listening over assessment, feedback and criticism. Is this wise? In my opinion, this is too passive a behavior.



ROFL! Who knows??? Who knows indeed! More selective perception Hobbes? More excuses for such behavior? More IMPROBABLE outcomes that supposedly arise from this?



An astute observer will merely notice that your moral compass is either heavily flawed or too influenced in positive bias for these trolls and clowns themselves.



Leprosy, malaria, filiarisis, dracunculiasis, smallpox, tuberculosis, all among other things and forms of life that have been marked for ERADICATION.



And sometimes things that smell like shit are indeed diseased turds and you need not feel them and taste them before you make a confirmation. Sometimes instincts are correct. I shudder at the day people lose touch with their instincts and instead get carried away by high-falutin' statements and platitudes.



It is not a misconception or an assumption. It is rhetoric



Yes, and the trolls know this. They don't fear banhammers. They fear fundamental changes that will give them no space to exist.

Health and Fitness
Education Essentials
Careers
Business Opportunities

All of these are, or have become, forums wholly dedicated to their topics and subject matters.

This is why trolls and the friends and apologists of trolls will do everything they can to obfuscate the matter and derail the discussions, and this is also why they will fail. It is so easy to get rid of trolls, they are so small and powerless before the grand scheme of things, they know that they make their fun entirely out of the faultlines and loopholes, when these things no longer exist then neither shall they.



Trolls and dupes are NOT important. What is important is that Cupid's Corner has it's own purpose and direction, and a STRONG one, influenced by a COLLECTIVE community effort. Cupid's Corner must have a sense of destiny that is separate from the affairs and concerns of Kopitiam if it is to be a relevant section, and anything more than a joke.



Are you aware of the politics and history of food production and population control? If you are, then let's discuss this in RWI.

Or perhaps your point is that we should be wary of unforeseen circumstances.

My friend, if everybody were as afraid of unforeseen circumstances and "what ifs" all the time, nothing would get done.

That may represent an ideal world to many. The serenity of nothing ever changing, of everything being as it is for all time, of people coping. For some people this is heaven. For me, this is just another face of death.

Those of us born in THIS generation take FAMINE for granted. We do not know what it means to actually be in a condition where there is absolutely no food to be had for MILES around you.

These were conditions that people actually had to deal with throughout history, thus the focus on food production, to END famine and the incredible loss of life that ensues, which wreaks widespread havoc through the entire structure of human society from the very TOP to the utmost bottom.

In the 14th century the Dutch, along with other Europeans, were amongst the most impoverished people on earth. Famines and food shortages were frequent. But one day the will of a people rose up, an identity was formed in opposition to subservience and dominance by "others", and this same will undertook measures to end famine once and for all. After a few hundred years of head start the Dutch are today one of the tallest people in the world.

That you live in an age with an abundance and variety of food should have given you pause to consider the agricultural and market forces that have made such a thing possible.

----

By the way, there is simply too much wall of text to further dissect and refute.

In any case, I think I've gotten my point across. There is simply too much selective bias and elitism in your post, ironically the very things you have accused others of having, for your arguments and positions to be considered a truly impartial and balanced view of things.

This post has been edited by Dickson Poon: Jul 29 2009, 06:39 PM

Just as I predicted. I knew this will happen.