what you say are true to a certain extent.. But somehow I believe the intention of majority of the people who go for tertiary education is to find a job.. What is the opint if what you learn is not the content demanded by employer? we're not talking about reseacrh here... sorry to say that business graduate without the skills demanded by the industry itself are not the workforce required by the industry and at best can only be described as those with knowledge on paper but are not equiped for the real world.

the education sector serves to underpin the training and development of the nation's workforce in order to drive effeciency and growth in the industry sectors.. if it does not do so, then what is the point of the universities? just to let the youngsters have 4 years of fun?

Furthermore, it is this kind of shielded mentality that our public uni has that the public uni refuse to acknowledge international univerisites ranking and refused to improve.. each time the rankings are published, they will said they did not wnat to be included and quoting reasons such as biasness...they refused to openly admit that the public uni do have some weaknesses and continue to indulge in their pride whilst refusing to take concrite steps to improve their international standing? without uni with international standings (even if the quality is just a perception), how are we to attract multinationals to invest substantially in Malaysia as these multinationals would not want to invets in a country that does not have a skilled and sophiticated workfoce.. is it no wonder that Taiwan and Korea has overtake our country ?

What you've written is one of the key reasons that adds weight to azarimy's comment about industry having a grip on academics.

Majority just want to get a degree so that they can find a good job. Whatever good job that is, majority of the students won't even know.

It's a mindset that is pretty linear: Get good SPM grade, go into College/Uni, get good job.

Not much further research is conducted into what's happening in the world, trends, issues, the types of companies, what these companies do and how they contribute to society in a bigger picture, how different expertise play a role in the company to form a coherent goal, etc.

Being in a linear model, most get into jobs or companies that only require linear thinking from the workers.




Do you see any of the locally bred IPTS in Malaysia having a place in any ranking? At least UM and UKM do.

This post has been edited by entryman: Nov 26 2010, 12:51 PM

This is because there is not yet a full fledged local private uni..Nevertheless, IPTS are quite good at certain specialist field..

take for example Sunway University College; its professional accountancy arm is one of the best ACCA tuition providers in the world where there are many students who got World and Malaysian prize very semester... Quite a few of the top affiliates( candidates who achieved overall highest marks) are from Sunway Uni' College.. In addition, for their A-Levels programme, they produce many of the students with the highest marks in the world..

Kemayan ATC and Brickfields Asia College excels in law... They are recognised as one of the institutions that produce the most 1st class honours graduates for their LLB (external system) awarded by university of London.. Quite a few of their students are granted a scholarship to pursue their law education in King's College London..Mind you, only 2 are awarded each year..

Isn't all these testaments to the strength and competitiveness of our IPTS?

However, I agree that there are many IPTS that are of low quality.. But to say that IPTS are lousier than IPTA is unwarranted.. In fact, in my opinion the above IPTS are even better than the IPTA in the fields mentioned..

Come again? There's a lot of local private universities in Malaysia. Though they aren't seen in world rankings. The only one I've seen are MMU in QS Asia rankings while our 5 research unis are there in the top 500 for the world even though not in the top 200.
I am not saying what is better than what since it's highly subjective to say which is "better" but just to state some stuff.

This post has been edited by Hikari0307: Nov 26 2010, 09:08 PM

my bad..i meant the uni that I said are not full fledged uni..sunway, bac, atc

those full-fledged private uni like Nottingham and Monash are definitely in the world ranking, and as such i did not use it in making my point.. i'm just pointing out that certain although IPTS without ranking, have international standing

usually IPTS will be priority, most of the time it depends on your interview though

Hi guys, SPM student tumpang thread tanya

Here is my question. If you have good grades(extremely good one), and your parents can afford, which would be better, IPTA or IPTS? (For IPTS I mean Nottingham and Monash)

The course I am opting for is either mechanical/civil engineering. Of course, if I go to IPTA, good ones like UM, UPM are preferable. However, from what I heard/ observed, you can't get into those reputable IPTAs easily, not even if you have high CGPA in Form 6. Maybe the case would be different for engineering courses or matriculation students. Anyone can clarify this?

Or would it be better if I go straight to Nottingham or Monash, where the quality of education of engineering is ensured and quicker enrollment? (1 year of January intake Pre-u, next year start course)

With the results of >7A+ and straight As in trials my best bet should be overseas scholarships. But we can't guarantee that. Some say I could have done well in Form 6/matriculation and hope for good IPTAs but also we can't be sure. Heaven knows if I will stray off course in my Form 6 and did really bad And I don't really like my future to be decided by someone else..

So.... feeling undecided about the future, therefore need extra views and opinions from seniors to clear my doubts Thanks in advance for your help

if you are willing to spend the money in Monash, why not u try going for NUS?

lol first time hear private university colleges have an 'advantage' in being hired. For one I know the fact that high competition to get a place in IPTA is already a plus point for the highly regarded IPTAs' students.

They are on par at best, but never more sought after locally.

@zeeyang, settle your Pre-U first. If engineering, I recommend A Levels, with Further Maths a must.

This post has been edited by DJFoo000: Nov 27 2010, 01:32 AM

you will be suprised, i have a fren who graduate from USM with bachelor of finance yet even he acknowledge that he is being passed over for promotions..at age of 28, his pay is still 3.5k only whereas my fren who graduate from Sunway (ACCA) are paid about 4.5k at age of 24...

again, u're using examples of ur friends. are those two friends working at the same firm, the same position and under the exact same conditions?

wouldnt u agree that ur friends' situations might not be related to where they graduate from at all?

yes...there are cases like that...
it depends...

well taking what you said as an argument...
what about those who excel in business without even furthering their study?
most of the richest biz man in the world dun even hold degrees....or myb even a cert.

however, what u mentioned is not really a comparable situations...
ACCA and Degree...those are two different qualifications...
same like an engineer holding IR and another which holds degree...

most of the newspapers will point that the students from this IPTS excel, got scholarship to go Uk...
that IPTS tighten its partnership with a reputable Aussie Uni...
whatever....
most of these news will come out in the newspaper weekly in the same section on some newspapers...
it is paid by the colleges to advertised such articles...
it is usually referred as campus section or whatever...

The IPTA dun even have to do it so.
of course they also have very strong partnership with well known foreign unis..
each year many students sent to foreign unis, excelled in many fields...
but the newspapers dun really need to highlight that...
like IPTS did...

IPTA dun have to advertise...the students queued to go there...
but if IPTS dun advertise...what will happen to them?

This post has been edited by violet05: Jan 30 2011, 11:26 AM

i think it's quite fair comparison considering one the USM guy in BP, and Sunway guy in one of the big 4 firm... and both ahve the same years of experience as the USM guy graduate later..

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Added on November 27, 2010, 7:33 pmbut still the having a degree with 5 years working experience and still stuck at 3.5k pay is below par even with degree holders from IPTS, don't you agree? maybe there are other factors such as lack of soft skills...

and btw, i think most people queue for IPTA is because it cost less to study..a whole degree at less than 10k..i dunno about others but none of my friend who can afford went to IPTA especially those studying business and commerce as the tuition fees in IPTS for these course are affordable..oen of my frens' parents even said that they have never considered IPTA..

furthermore, have u seen statistics of unemployment in our country? 60k graduates from IPTA without jobs...most of those from IPTS get a job within 6 months whilst many of parents even securing jobs before the went for their finals.. IPTA are merely churning out graduates without considering the input from the industry on their skills requirements..if the graduates do not have the skills required by industry, then they can really be incorporated into the workforce unless further training is given which is an additional cost for them..

in my opinion, the syllabus of IPTA is too politically influenced where many of the subjects are unrelated to the fields the graduates are gonna work in..


This post has been edited by Knight_2008: Nov 27 2010, 07:33 PM

okay, if u prefer to have that way... here's from my perspective.

in architecture business, none of the IPTS are even remotely accredited to offer a professional degree in malaysia. and i'm not talking about what i heard or what people said, it's about actual facts. u are welcomed to check if u want.

in this industry, people avoid taking IPTS students because of the predicaments about practice licenses, capabilities and the actual quality of the graduates. they can talk, sure. but most of them struggle in practice because when push comes to shove, it's about what u can deliver rather than what u said u could.

architectural graduates from IPTAs are top priority in malaysia. and since my sample is bigger than yours, i win .

dude, come on? politically influenced? is patriotism and general knowledge politically motivated? would u prefer graduates that knows nothing about the general happenings in the country? i think u're extremely biased against IPTAs with no real grounds. stop listening to ur friends and go walk into one.

+1

lol...i'm not really that anti-IPTA..it's just that i like to play the role of devil advocate..since so many ppl are bashing IPTS here, therefore i spoke in defense of IPTS..then we can have a balance discussion..both have good and bad actually...

returning to my role,

the subject of accreditation are fundamentally political..look at accountancy profession..to be a chartered accountant in Malaysia, one have to be a member of MIA...there are two routes to achieve that; one is to be a member of professional accountancy bodies like ACCA,CPA,ICAEW..second is to be a graduate from public universities like UM,USM...

this is considered a joke in our profession in that a degree holder is considered to be on par with the same technical knowledge and skills as a member of professional body... as such, even if government allow a public uni graduate to be a chartered accountant in Malaysia, Big 4 accountancy firms would require these graduates to purse foreign professional accountancy programmes..this will tell u whether the industry truly recognised these graduates or not...in paper they may, but deep inside they do not..

and one of most ironic thing is, the graduates from Oxford and Cambridge are not allow to directly registered as member of MIA without professional accountacy bodies membership whereas graduates from UM does..what a joke...does the government think UM is better than Oxford?

as for my opinion on the architecture industry, the government is merely raising barrier of entry by only recognising the public uni graduates..this does not mean the IPTA are better..try go otehr country and see if they recognised UM more than the degree awarded by private uni.. let's put this in perspective, is Proton really better than foreign car? not only their quality are just so so, they are actually more expensive..a honda city if without import duty will cost less than 50k...a korean car will be even cheaper where they are selling for 10,000 USD only..that is 30k ringgit..

and i quote from George Benard Shaw, one of teh founder of London School of Economics.. "Patriotism is, fundamentally, a conviction that a particular country is the best in the world because you were born in it… "

AFAIK the government has nothing to do with accreditation. It's the professional bodies that have a say. Just a matter of policies, like the BEM issue.

this professional association are related to government..ar eusaying securities commission and bursa malaysia are government related?? they are established by the government

these professional bodies are established by the government to prescribe regulations for the profession...so that the government need to enact an ACT establishing these professional association and the subsequent changes to regulation governing these profession will not need to go through parliment. these are called subsidiary legislation..

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Added on November 27, 2010, 9:04 pm"MIA is a statutory body established under the Accountants Act, 1967 to regulate and develop the accountancy profession in Malaysia. To date, MIA has 27285 members."
http://www.mia.org.my/new/about.asp

"The Board of Architects Malaysia is a statutory authority responsible for the enforcement of the Architects Act 1967."
http://www.lam.gov.my/aboutus.html



This post has been edited by Knight_2008: Nov 27 2010, 09:04 PM

focusing on the bolded part,

here's where i suggest u stop putting the noose around ur neck. i've been involved in the accreditation process twice. i can assure u that none of the IPTS have reached the minimum standard required by the profession. just like most professions out there, one can opt to take local professional cert or international.

in malaysia, local architectural practice is governed by LAM. and internationally, there's RIBA/ARB (UK), RAIA (australia) and so on, where they are equally recognized. none of the IPTS hold accreditation from these bodies either, but UM and UiTM (the so called lousy bumiputera only university) holds RIBA/ARB accreditation, while USM and UTM are following suite.

i dont mind u talking about other professions, but dont even begin to act like u know mine.

believe it what u like, we in IPTAs are quite independent-minded from the government.

okay, then it's my bad

btw..the IPTS does not qualify, is it because they are not awarding their own degree but due to their twinning nature?

anyway, isn't IPTS like Taylor Uni also accredited?? http://www.taylors.edu.my/courses/arc/arc_...ing2.php?id=267