i agree with u...

So to sum up your final statement,

To fully maximize utility...

For business related degrees, you will need to go overseas (worthwhile only if within world 200), the foreign university branches in M'sia, or the IPTS in Tier 5 Setara.

For technical degrees, it's either in the branches of foreign universities, or the IPTAs in Tier 5 Setara, or other IPTS in Tier 5 Setara that provides 1+3 or 2+2 etc but NOT 3+0. The choice between the three is dependent on personal career aspirations/planning (e.g. one might choose IPTA instead of Nottingham for Engineering degree as he wants to be accredited) or financial constraints.

Sums it up properly?

This post has been edited by entryman: Nov 29 2010, 03:10 PM

well, there's a danger here as not all courses for tier 5 IPTAs are equally advanced.

for example, if an IPTA just opened a particular course and not yet accredited, u cant put it equal to another that have established it for 10-15 years. in such cases, i'd say opt for the non-tier 5 IPTA which have been accredited. it's all about the course u want to choose, not just the general university.

Ah yes...

My catch-all didn't work out too well

anyone know which ipts got accredited for electrical engineering degree?

accredited by who? BEM?
Press on the Universities/Colleges to see which of their programmes have been accredited.
http://www.bem.org.my/v3/listofaccreditedprogrammes.html

Sorry I dont understand this chart

http://www.eac.org.my/web/document/list%20....2010%29%20.pdf

Does it mean only electronic majoring in optical engineering recognize?

All the Degrees listed there are accredited. The chart shows the graduates of which years hold degrees that have received accreditation.

Ok, Thanks for the info

I have taught both at IPTAs and IPTSs.

Both have its merits but in terms of teaching experience, and higher learning, you have to go with IPTAs. To put it bluntly, do look at the business model for both types of universities and you could see the difference.

IPTSs main goal is to make money (despite the slogans blahblah) and profit margin is sought after before academic excellence. You only have to see the influx of foreign students who barely qualify as high school students in IPTS degree courses across the country. We have also seen the emergence of 'instant' vocational diplomas such as nursing in a lot of Colleges as these courses provide instant profit.

I am not saying that this drive for profit gain has caused quality to reduce, but it certainly makes it harder for these University colleges to grow. As an example, a lot of UCs today are gearing up for Full Uni status by encouraging their lecturers to do research. However, most of the funds have already been allocated to the shareholders, marketing and student services that the best these researchers can do is go beyond the College for grants. IPTAs on the other receive a steady (maybe not in the last couple of years) injection of funds by the government specifically meant for research.

Most students who are applying for their diplomas and degrees may not have to worry about the amount of research produced at their universities because it is irrelevant to their studies. However, Research universities do attract the best minds and though they might not be the best 'teachers' in the classroom, they are some of the best thinkers/ writers/ policy makers in the country.

As for this debate whether IPTAs or IPTSs students speak better Engrrish, I think they are equally good and equally atrocious. I was just marking some exam papers this afternoon and OMG the level of English..is..horrible.. can't read..anymore..must poke eyes with red pen!!!!

here i will list out all the cons of a local u based on my personal experience,

for IPTA, you will not get the EXPOSURE , you will be like a katak di bawah tempurung , you will not be exposed to real university life, western education styles, western thinking .....bla bla........, in local u's , its more like schooling than uni, wif strict rules and stuff,such as gals hav to wear long jeans to classes and even around the campus, same applies to guys, and the environment and atmosphere around the campus is just so dull and boring. it sounds more like you are in an islamic university.

and IPTA do hav long credit hours, at more than 20 hours a week, and you hav to learn stupid subjects that are not related to the course at all....


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

a student from an IPTS will possesses high social and PR skill ,sporting, open mindedness, pro-activeness, high exposure, western style thinking, outgoing, high self esteem, extrovert..............

a student from an IPTA will be close minded, conservative, shy, lack the social and PR skill, getting virtually no exposure at all, malaysian and 'islamic' style thinking, low self esteem,introvert................

academically and skill-wise, both will be almost the same altho IPTA will have a slight advantage on this....

IPTS will be 10x the price of IPTA.............

so which wan do you choose? or more specifically, which type of person do you choose to be?

that's an extreme generalization.

is that what IPTA did to u? that u become so... skewed?

Well azarimy I believe that it the perception of many people, I'm not sure if it's the majority or not, but it's a huge chunk, i.e. if you've got the financing, you better stay clear from the IPTAs, due to the reasons given by rooney.

Well I'm in the middle of the fence, since I've never been exposed to IPTAs nor met a student. But I guess you know about the "network effect". When you've heard nothing but negative stuff (okay perhaps didn't hear much negative stuff, but the strong perception about having money and staying clear remains), it naturally spreads throughout communities.

One of the major reasons that I believe fuels this issue, comes from how the government might be managing the talent. Some stories here, they're true, no reason for me to make them up.

1970s, a person I know was working in the bank. One day, mr. old and senior engineering lecturer (bank customer) mentioned that he was quitting his job. This person I that I knew asked: why? you've got such a good job why quit? The answer was something in the lines of portraying the skewed marking system and having to pass those who fail. And the concluding sentence was something like:"It is against my conscience and my profession. Can you imagine, these people are the ones who are going to build your bridges and buildings."

Fast forward to very recently. Things that portray racial discrimination.

I remember reading a news clipping in some forumer's blog here, mentioning a patriotic Malaysian Chinese coming back from Canada and felt neglected by the racial policies, and went to NUS instead, and he's now head of the Faculty of Medicine, leading a team of international scientists to conduct cutting edge research. Well this is not recently, but it also happened in the 70s and 80s.

Anyway back to stuff that I personally know.

Scenario 1.

- Science related
- Secured a PhD post at Harvard.
- PTPTN not only blocked the person from going, some more charge with a court case, wanted full settlement.
- Personally obtained Fullbright Scholarship. Vowed to say bye bye to M'sia.
- Pulled strings and got the case settled. On top of the Fullbright scholarship, got another scholarship from Malaysia.
- Now this person says doesn't mind coming back to Malaysia. However, had it not been for the scholarship and the settled case, you imagine lah, M'sia would have lost a top scientist to another country.

*I know the actual facts above are abit vague. Because this is third person account. But you should get the idea of what I mean.*

Scenario 2.

- Bright young student, straight As in everything
- Secured a place at Cambridge
- Secured PTPTN loan (note that it's loan, not even scholarship).
- Started at Cambridge U, however, while studying there, loan didn't arrive! Stuck there with no money to pay uni fees
- Appealed to Cambridge U, obtained full scholarship.
- You can imagine, contrary to the above scenario, this one confirmed say bye bye to M'sia. The education was fully funded by the M'sian government, till a bright young student was nurtured, and picked up with a few cents by the British.

* And you guessed it right, the above two were not Malays.

Scenario 3.

Foreign scientist who did his PhD at one of the IPTAs told me that his research results were blocked from being published, and were destroyed by the U (they said it went lost). His research was on the agricultural soil composition of Cameron highlands, and of course, the results were bad. My best guess is that these results would bring on negative implications to the industry.


----


So with all these spreading around, and me being only a student, all these were passed on to me by the older generation, it doesn't help but to fuel the negative perception (and perhaps more of the minority races) towards a public education in M'sia.

However, I personally know and respect some people who are really hard-working and do not have the funds to go to IPTS. They make the most out of their time in IPTA.

Reiterating that I'm in the middle of the fence. Perhaps you can give comments, both towards what I've written above, and also some points contradictory to rooney's statements. Because, I would also also be compelled to think in that way, though not as extreme (compare the environment, not the people).

This post has been edited by entryman: Dec 21 2010, 11:15 AM

For scenario 1. Wouldn't it be the person's fault for not paying PTPTN in the first place ^^" He doesn't pay or ask to defer paying for a while, so it's kinda his fault for getting blacklisted from going abroad right.

For scenario 2 I'm just curious, as far as I know PTPTN only provide loans for courses done in Malaysia they never provide any financial aids at all for those going overseas.

This post has been edited by Hikari0307: Dec 21 2010, 11:30 AM

are u saying majority perception > truth?



my wife took PTPTN. she didnt finish paying before she continued for her 2nd degree in the UK. PTPTN didnt stop her from leaving, because she applied to PTPTN for a postponement, and she got it.

it's simple: if u borrow, pay it back. if u have to postpone, ask for it. it's not a big deal!

but if u dont pay and got black listed (barred from going abroad), it's ur own fault. now this is from our own experience, not some third person account.



PTPTN doesnt give overseas loans.



source? there would be an academic record for the studies being done. any studies will have a budget allocation, and the university audit will want to know the outcome/result of each ringgit spent. so if there's money being spent but not producing results, the audit unit will rain havoc over them.

my advice is get the truth, son. no point keep feeding off the same fuel. if u have a chance to make things better, why not take it? u can start by not fueling others.

Scenario 1.

As I said, the actual facts are abit vague (coz I forgot).

Focus on the general story instead.

Btw, the person's very poor, fought all the way till current qualifications!


Scenario 2.

Again clause as above (forgot facts).

Focus on general story again please.

If it's not PTPTN then think of it as some other government fund lah.

---

Added on December 21, 2010, 11:27 amOf course majority perception doesn't mean it's the truth.

I'm trying to get some truth here with the little time I have, so I can start dispersing those perception with the truth.

Again, all these were from real accounts.

Third person meaning, someone very close to me informed me of his accounts with specific people facing such issues.

It's the same as you telling me the issues faced by your loved ones.

So, what I was asking was about the.. environment.

Although rooney's statement was very much to the extreme, but I suppose there's still some basis as to why that comment was made. What's the basis? Or is that complete bollocks. I've never been to IPTA so I'm asking.

---

Added on December 21, 2010, 11:31 amNah, of course there's no "credible source".

It would be a futile attempt to obtain them.

Though you see, these "you can call them stories if you want", are being conveyed, and they are unique in each of their cases.

Imagine if it reached me, a young student, just 1 separation away from the source, how many others did it reach?

So that's ONE OF the factors fuelling the negative perception.



*Out of topic:* By the way, was there a recent change of the PTPTN CEO/Chairman? This year.


This post has been edited by entryman: Dec 21 2010, 11:58 AM

well, the facts speak for themselves. as in scenario 1, regardless whether one is poor or rich, they can request to postpone payment by a simple letter. in this case, going for their studies is a very good reason, one PTPTN often give the green light to.

in scenario 2, different funds got different requirements and procedure. JPA is one of the most popular, but will be awarded before departure, not after. others are awarded upon admission, the rest with their own system. so depending on which, the story can be very different. it's easy to listen to individual accounts, but u cant ignore the system.

for example, if u're a driver, a single accident shouldnt prove that u're a bad one. and the person causing the accident doesnt mean he's a bad one either.

well, i noe dat my views are a little extreme and unfair, but dat is what i had experienced at local u's. I am currently a first year student at UM and i am commenting from wat i had xperienced. in local u's , there are many strict rules and regulation that makes the whole study environment dull and boring. There are also the type of 'islamisation' and 'political agendas' that you hav to go thru in a local u. For example they hav subjects glorifies a religion and the 'one race', that they force every student to take and its a must pass subject.

not to mention the bias-ness and unfairness of lecturers marking papers, for example, i hav a paper, which i got A for mid term, and B+ for 'quizzes', and in the end , i got a C for my total marks, how on earth can i get a C if i get A and B+? and i hav some of my frens, who got AA , but for the total marks, they are given a B, ironic isnt it? while for the 'other' students, most of them got F, but they are given a D!!. this is the kind of biasness and unfairness you hav to go thru in IPTA.

and not to mention the way courses are taught, its more like schooling than uni, the lecturer will oni teach and the students will only copy and students are only required to memorize to get good results.....there is no communication between lecturers and students and students are not equipped with the thinking skills taught in IPTS.

definitely i am comparing my IPTA wif renowned IPTS like taylors, sunway, monash , notingham.......etc, and not wif some lesser known IPTS like kdu, kbu, segi, inti etc, and there is also lesser known IPTA's like UUM, UNIMAP, UMK and etc that are 10x worst than the well known IPTA's. so you cant compare a uni like segi wif lets say um or usm. good IPTA's and good IPTS's produce academically good students, while poor IPTA's and poor IPTS's produce academically poor students.....

its more like comparing the kind of social and thinking skills you get from those uni's than comparing academical performance.

conclusionally, academically, IPTA students wins by a slight margin over IPTS.
but socially, IPTA students will fail horribly...........

so if you r an outgoing dynamic and sporting person, u r better off to IPTS, but if you are a quiet , introvert ,laid back, IPTA will suits you better......
and its definitely worth the large sum of money spent to go to IPTS's, the experience and exposure you get from an ipts will be vital for your future career....

You can rechecke your final exams question right? So do it

Back to the 1st post where bright minds are attracted to the uni due to better research environment. This bright minds are not good teachers but will give you better facts as they are more current then their peers who teach 30-40 hrs a week. Teaching style is different from lect. to lect; they are one way communicators in UM, USM, UKM and UPM as also from Nottingham, Monash etc.

It you are a dynamic and sporting person you will excel anywhere that you go (if you study). If you're quiet and introvert, you can also excel.

but as I mentioned earlier if you do not have the right equipment (technical field) then the graduates produced are 'tong kosong'; can talk only the moment work need to be done all shy away.

This post has been edited by biggie: Dec 21 2010, 03:03 PM

i've read from page 1 to 8 (well up until 7 actually), too many out of topic posts. haahaha!

here's my 2cents, to experience real university life, living in a dorm/hostel/college and such, u have to go to ipta. but don't complain about all the strict rules, coz it is there for a reason.

so for TS, i'm coming from IIUM/UIAM myself, studied Computer Science. after 6 months of graduation, 90% of my batch are employed. the remaining 10% are either ladies who are getting married soon or those who have family business to run.

so i don't experience the rejection by the work industry..