You guys don't even need to start going to the extent of morality.

It's a contractual obligation. If you don't want to honour the contract in the first place why did you accept the offer. It's just stealing on purpose!

This post has been edited by entryman: Nov 19 2010, 12:12 AM

What you've written is one of the key reasons that adds weight to azarimy's comment about industry having a grip on academics.

Majority just want to get a degree so that they can find a good job. Whatever good job that is, majority of the students won't even know.

It's a mindset that is pretty linear: Get good SPM grade, go into College/Uni, get good job.

Not much further research is conducted into what's happening in the world, trends, issues, the types of companies, what these companies do and how they contribute to society in a bigger picture, how different expertise play a role in the company to form a coherent goal, etc.

Being in a linear model, most get into jobs or companies that only require linear thinking from the workers.




Do you see any of the locally bred IPTS in Malaysia having a place in any ranking? At least UM and UKM do.

This post has been edited by entryman: Nov 26 2010, 12:51 PM

I can't seem to find on Oxbridge's websites stating that they deliver undergraduate or graduate programmes in Accountancy.

So to sum up your final statement,

To fully maximize utility...

For business related degrees, you will need to go overseas (worthwhile only if within world 200), the foreign university branches in M'sia, or the IPTS in Tier 5 Setara.

For technical degrees, it's either in the branches of foreign universities, or the IPTAs in Tier 5 Setara, or other IPTS in Tier 5 Setara that provides 1+3 or 2+2 etc but NOT 3+0. The choice between the three is dependent on personal career aspirations/planning (e.g. one might choose IPTA instead of Nottingham for Engineering degree as he wants to be accredited) or financial constraints.

Sums it up properly?

This post has been edited by entryman: Nov 29 2010, 03:10 PM

Ah yes...

My catch-all didn't work out too well

Well azarimy I believe that it the perception of many people, I'm not sure if it's the majority or not, but it's a huge chunk, i.e. if you've got the financing, you better stay clear from the IPTAs, due to the reasons given by rooney.

Well I'm in the middle of the fence, since I've never been exposed to IPTAs nor met a student. But I guess you know about the "network effect". When you've heard nothing but negative stuff (okay perhaps didn't hear much negative stuff, but the strong perception about having money and staying clear remains), it naturally spreads throughout communities.

One of the major reasons that I believe fuels this issue, comes from how the government might be managing the talent. Some stories here, they're true, no reason for me to make them up.

1970s, a person I know was working in the bank. One day, mr. old and senior engineering lecturer (bank customer) mentioned that he was quitting his job. This person I that I knew asked: why? you've got such a good job why quit? The answer was something in the lines of portraying the skewed marking system and having to pass those who fail. And the concluding sentence was something like:"It is against my conscience and my profession. Can you imagine, these people are the ones who are going to build your bridges and buildings."

Fast forward to very recently. Things that portray racial discrimination.

I remember reading a news clipping in some forumer's blog here, mentioning a patriotic Malaysian Chinese coming back from Canada and felt neglected by the racial policies, and went to NUS instead, and he's now head of the Faculty of Medicine, leading a team of international scientists to conduct cutting edge research. Well this is not recently, but it also happened in the 70s and 80s.

Anyway back to stuff that I personally know.

Scenario 1.

- Science related
- Secured a PhD post at Harvard.
- PTPTN not only blocked the person from going, some more charge with a court case, wanted full settlement.
- Personally obtained Fullbright Scholarship. Vowed to say bye bye to M'sia.
- Pulled strings and got the case settled. On top of the Fullbright scholarship, got another scholarship from Malaysia.
- Now this person says doesn't mind coming back to Malaysia. However, had it not been for the scholarship and the settled case, you imagine lah, M'sia would have lost a top scientist to another country.

*I know the actual facts above are abit vague. Because this is third person account. But you should get the idea of what I mean.*

Scenario 2.

- Bright young student, straight As in everything
- Secured a place at Cambridge
- Secured PTPTN loan (note that it's loan, not even scholarship).
- Started at Cambridge U, however, while studying there, loan didn't arrive! Stuck there with no money to pay uni fees
- Appealed to Cambridge U, obtained full scholarship.
- You can imagine, contrary to the above scenario, this one confirmed say bye bye to M'sia. The education was fully funded by the M'sian government, till a bright young student was nurtured, and picked up with a few cents by the British.

* And you guessed it right, the above two were not Malays.

Scenario 3.

Foreign scientist who did his PhD at one of the IPTAs told me that his research results were blocked from being published, and were destroyed by the U (they said it went lost). His research was on the agricultural soil composition of Cameron highlands, and of course, the results were bad. My best guess is that these results would bring on negative implications to the industry.


----


So with all these spreading around, and me being only a student, all these were passed on to me by the older generation, it doesn't help but to fuel the negative perception (and perhaps more of the minority races) towards a public education in M'sia.

However, I personally know and respect some people who are really hard-working and do not have the funds to go to IPTS. They make the most out of their time in IPTA.

Reiterating that I'm in the middle of the fence. Perhaps you can give comments, both towards what I've written above, and also some points contradictory to rooney's statements. Because, I would also also be compelled to think in that way, though not as extreme (compare the environment, not the people).

This post has been edited by entryman: Dec 21 2010, 11:15 AM

Scenario 1.

As I said, the actual facts are abit vague (coz I forgot).

Focus on the general story instead.

Btw, the person's very poor, fought all the way till current qualifications!


Scenario 2.

Again clause as above (forgot facts).

Focus on general story again please.

If it's not PTPTN then think of it as some other government fund lah.

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Added on December 21, 2010, 11:27 amOf course majority perception doesn't mean it's the truth.

I'm trying to get some truth here with the little time I have, so I can start dispersing those perception with the truth.

Again, all these were from real accounts.

Third person meaning, someone very close to me informed me of his accounts with specific people facing such issues.

It's the same as you telling me the issues faced by your loved ones.

So, what I was asking was about the.. environment.

Although rooney's statement was very much to the extreme, but I suppose there's still some basis as to why that comment was made. What's the basis? Or is that complete bollocks. I've never been to IPTA so I'm asking.

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Added on December 21, 2010, 11:31 amNah, of course there's no "credible source".

It would be a futile attempt to obtain them.

Though you see, these "you can call them stories if you want", are being conveyed, and they are unique in each of their cases.

Imagine if it reached me, a young student, just 1 separation away from the source, how many others did it reach?

So that's ONE OF the factors fuelling the negative perception.



*Out of topic:* By the way, was there a recent change of the PTPTN CEO/Chairman? This year.


This post has been edited by entryman: Dec 21 2010, 11:58 AM