either the 1GP is very very good news or

VERY VERY BAD NEWS THAT THEY DON'T WANT U TO KNOW TOO EARLY....

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Added on March 3, 2010, 9:05 pmTalk about open roof, dog kennel, windows type...

i personally know many farmers who use their 2nd storey shop (three storey strata titled shop) to convert into farm, they cannot open the roof liked we did in top floor. So, they resorted to use the window as the inlet hole.

and i also know many new shops that the developer sell it at strata title basis where 4 storey shops are sold per floor basis. and such those who bought the lower floor will need to use window type.

we cannot just said that well, our farms are all ok and those windows or dog kennel type will have to go.....tht is just the same liked what those ******* did where they take cares of themselves instead of all.

whether there are windows, dog kennel, open roof. as long as it meet the requirement in terms of db, they should be allow to continue operation.

i apologize if i offended anyone here.

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Added on March 3, 2010, 9:31 pmGuys we have been bragging for over 2 years in this forum.

time to do something meaningful that

YOUR FAMILY, YOUR KIDS N YOURSELF PROUD OF.

We will start the ball rolling with the help of bro dunsun and bro cergau.



This post has been edited by ChanK: Mar 3 2010, 09:32 PM

ChanK,
that a reasonable argument.
whatever kind of LMB you have, the hole doesnt make noise-lah
side opening with tweeters facing the same way has a tendency to throw the sound straight out agreed.
So fix the angle of the tweeters and reduce the volume.
maybe our champions in the gomen may include in the guideline, how many degree the tweter supposed to be?
(instead of fixing the noise, they fix the tweeters)
The operator need to do that. So the fault is with the operator.

Same like this
17,000 people die on M;sian roads each year
highest casualties - motorcycles - so ban all motorcycles
2nd, cars- ban all cars
cars and motorcycles dun kill-lah
human fault-lah, even if mechanical fault, the machine cannot fix itself-lah,
the driver need to go service regularly.

my 2 bit

Received information from a PBT officer about 1GP that

ONE OF THE CONDITION WHERE ALL FARMERS NEEDS TO BE A MEMBER OF THE FEDERATION ASSOCIATION IN ORDER TO APPLY FOR A LICENSE.

THE PBT OFFICER IS VERY WORRIED WHY ALLOWED ONE ASSOCIATION TO MONOPOLY THE WHOLE INDUSTRY?

THIS IS GETTING VERY VERY ALARMING...

THTS WHY THE 1GP IS BEEN HIDDEN AWAY???......

This is very discouraging news.
What other unpleasant surprises are in store?

What abt all the bumi assoc that were reported to be setup now?
What have they got to say abt this?
Those poor kg folks, get partial funding frm govt then take the rest as a loan.
So all the pakciks will start paying bank interest, pay Fed Assoc for membership and pay some more for all the bureacracy.
Where in the world are they going to pay all these from? Before the 1st brirshit has been spotted?
Yet another loan?
Does becoming a member of the Federal association ensure all the birds will comne and stay.
What value does it add to the overall scheme of things.
This is obscene. This is blackmail.
Greed know no bounds.
Leeching off the poorest.
We have the threat of impending lifting of petrol subsidy, the just postponed decision of another electricity tariff rise, GST and all other incidental price increase. We do not need another scheme to compell folks to pay thru their nose for a piece of paper.
What next? Another Fed membership for licence to house swiftlet?
Let's make a full deck with yet another for harvesting?
Or better yet, join another Fed association for export license.
Why stop there, must join Fed assoc to get cofees shop operating license.
Backyard factories, maybe yr neighborhood grocery shop.

After taking away their money and their freedom of choice.
Let's compell them to now as part of any licensing regime, compulsory to join a particular political party?
I say enough is enough.

Please alert yr local association of this new development.
Demand that they bring this up to the authorities.

This is where your local MPs must act.
Govt issues the license for a token sum, PROVIDED you join Federal Association for a large sum.
Poor suffering citizens gets it both ways.
This is just 1 condition what abt the rest. of the 1GP?

Thiis whole affair stinks to the core.

This post has been edited by Cergau: Mar 4 2010, 01:45 AM

that why i still prefer to be illegal BH,some BIG SHARK still caring for their own benefit.

tangsn,
pls check PM

Aiiiiii………..Just like DL said it doesn’t give good feeling. If this is going to be really good news, these politicians would surely announce it loudly and early to claim credit. The longer the delay, the lesser chance for good news. Better be preparing for the worst. Why can’t they just classify it under COTTAGE INDUSTRY to simplify the whole matter? They said they are helping, but I see they are helping in the torturing and killing of this god sent golden goose slowly. How to compete with other countries??????? How to become really BOLEH????? Must go and buy more sleeping pills….

HELP,
I was informed by a non operator that it was indeed published in the Chinese newspapers either SinChew or GuangMing before CNY.
Can someone search these papers (BEFORE CNY) for
1)a copy of the article
2)English translation of the same.
It is most important step to bring this to a wider audience.
Do it NOW please.

(((((((Talk about open roof, dog kennel, windows type...
i personally know many farmers who use their 2nd storey shop (three storey strata titled shop) to convert into farm, they cannot open the roof liked we did in top floor. So, they resorted to use the window as the inlet hole.
and i also know many new shops that the developer sell it at strata title basis where 4 storey shops are sold per floor basis. and such those who bought the lower floor will need to use window type.
we cannot just said that well, our farms are all ok and those windows or dog kennel type will have to go.....tht is just the same liked what those ******* did where they take cares of themselves instead of all.
whether there are windows, dog kennel, open roof. as long as it meet the requirement in terms of db, they should be allow to continue operation.
i apologize if i offended anyone here.)))))))))))) Quote CHANK


Just say that you can't please everyone with any GP and if the authorities try to please everyone, they will fail everytime and in the end, they will please no one and even offend everyone.

My uncle told me once; you cannot please everyone and if you do, you end up doing nothing, whatever you do, you can only please part of the people at one time and the most importance thing is that whatever you do, you sincerely believe that it is the best in the interest of all.

To be fair to everyone, open window is a no no in town as I am a victim of the open window type. My house is behind a BH with the open window type and the music play for 24 hrs and my children can't sleep days and nights.
Because I am a BH owner myself, I complained it to the owner and it only went quite well for a week and then it happened again. I can't find myself to report to the authorities so I paid a contractor to seal my back windows facing the BH but then how many living behind opened window types are BH owners and willing to incure the cost of closing the window and the unhealthy windowless sleeping rooms. The main culprits of the industry is the sound disturbance and the open window is the worst kind.

Open window BHs owners may argue that we will comply but then how many and for how long and what after the GP. Opposition Politicians gain on Public complaints. We, the BHs owners are not Tai Sai, others do have rights and we are infringing into their right to a peaceful and healthy life.

A few of the compromised solutions @ Seremban workshop are

1. That open windows are not allowed
2. Residence area are not allowed
3. BHs may be neat and nice and need to repaint when required.
4. No outside modifications are allow.
5. External tweeters must face the sky and not toward other buildings.
6. Regular maintenance and upkeeping of the BHs.
7. many many others requirements.

For open window type, as long as you play music, the sound will travel from the hole to the back building loud and clear esp. at night.......and there is no other way to solve then to prevent the usage of this method.

I remembered that during the mentioning of the open window type @ Seremban, a particular group asked me why didn't I object to it when it was mentioned and I replied why should I and not them; I am just one and they are group of 6 and they just sit down quietly and just listen for the whole section. I didn't mentioned that I am also against the opened window type 20 years ago and still am.

To be honest, for the BHs @ town to stay, there is no way for open window type as these type will bring future problem for the industry for not only sound pollution, smell and dust pollution will follow.

I am talking as a neutral guy who suffer from the BH and also gain from the industry. Above are my own feelings and others may feel differently and may wish to speak up. No intention of offending anyone but being a honest man, I just speak from my heart and what I believe that it is the best in the interest of the majorities of BHs @ towns.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Mar 4 2010, 03:00 PM

they are three musketeers, one musketeer own dog kennel and is anti window as the window directly facing him. so, he against all with windows. Window is out.

one musketeer own open roof and is anti dog kennel as the dog kennel is more noisy than him. so, he against all with dog kennel. dog kennel is out.

one musketeer own window type and is anti open roof as open roof turn on sound much much louder than him as the he is in three storey and the open roof is a 2 storey farm. so, he against all with open roof. open roof is out.

luckily all these musketeers did not attend the meeting together, else, the industry is as white as whitening nests.

no offence. by the way, i don't own any windows type. lucky me.

tired. bye.

This post has been edited by ChanK: Mar 4 2010, 05:05 PM

out of curiosity, what is the market price for 1kg of unprocessed bird nest now

Uncle West Wing,
Incase (as casually mentioned in our just concluded get together amongst fellow forumers) that we (newbies) may be accused of teaching the sifus how to suck egg happens. I want to make it clear that I respond to defend my argument (in response to ChanK's post) with utmost respect.

In the 2 statements I have highlighted above, they both imply that it is POSSIBLE to remove the noise nuisance, does it not?
I cont. with the assumption that the answer is YES.
So there are errant operators who tone down on enforcement and blast away after?
Shoudnt then these errant operators be penalised by forced closure?
Why does the few good need to pay for the sins of the errant?.
Why throw the baby out with the bath water?
Do we need to sacrifice these compliant operators so that the enforcement authorities have an easier time?

In the same breath using my road accident death as an example
We ban all motorcycles on the road to reduce road deaths cos' the authorities find it tough to enforce traffic rules?
So all the rubber tappers, farmers and kg folks have to walk for the mat rempit's sin (example only-lah)?

Don't you think the authorities are missing the root problem with such careless blanket ruling?

Some may argue that there is a deeper underlying problem, but I will stop here and not touch the can of worms.

Open window BHs owners may argue that we will comply but then how many and for how long and what after the GP. Opposition Politicians gain on Public complaints. We, the BHs owners are not Tai Sai, others do have rights and we are infringing into their right to a peaceful and healthy life.

A few of the compromised solutions @ Seremban workshop are

1. That open windows are not allowed
2. Residence area are not allowed
It is not residential area not allowed. It is 100% residential house in modern Taman or Garden not allowed. Whereas shop-houses of commercial title found in these area are permitted. Many people including Govt officials always get confused or make serious mistake in this interpretation.

3. BHs may be neat and nice and need to repaint when required.
4. No outside modifications are allow.
5. External tweeters must face the sky and not toward other buildings.
6. Regular maintenance and upkeeping of the BHs.
7. many many others requirements.

I agree that OPEN WINDOW type in town constitutes almost 90 % of the complaints of noise pollution or nuisance received by the local govt. And I further agree that they together with any other type if found repeatedly committing noise pollution or nuisance, they should be penalised with summons with condition of either completely shut down their external sound permanently or alter their entrances and if still found committing nuisance after final warning that their operation as a bird’s house must be stop completely.
But I do not agree to put in law to one broad sweep indiscriminately to ban all window type. What about those in vicinity totally not causing noise pollution or nuisance? What about those built on agri-land and outskirts only causing nuisance to the monkeys? What about those operate in the abandoned projects or ghost towns where no resident lives?
There are already ample existing local by-laws with more than enough of teeth under the jurisdiction of the local govt that could be used to tackle these errant cases. Question here is whether the local govt enforcement is efficient, capable and effective to execute. If they are not competent to attend to complaints, who is to be blamed? Those not causing problem OPEN WINDOW type owners to be scapegoats? This reminds me of a certain unscrupulous high ranking idiot of alleging ALL CHINESE WOMEN ARE PROSTITUTES AND ALL INDIANS ARE BEGGERS recently.
This is also just like someone mentioned earlier 17,000 motor cyclists died on the road in Malaysia every year, the best solution shall be to ban all to ride on motor cycles. One Proton Saga was found sped through red light, all Proton Saga owners to be summoned?


To be fair to everyone, open window is a no no in town as I am a victim of the open window type. My house is behind a BH with the open window type and the music play for 24 hrs and my children can't sleep days and nights.
Because I am a BH owner myself, I complained it to the owner and it only went quite well for a week and then it happened again. I can't find myself to report to the authorities so I paid a contractor to seal my back windows facing the BH but then how many living behind opened window types are BH owners and willing to incure the cost of closing the window and the unhealthy windowless sleeping rooms. The main culprits of the industry is the sound disturbance and the open window is the worst kind.

Open window BHs owners may argue that we will comply but then how many and for how long and what after the GP. Opposition Politicians gain on Public complaints. We, the BHs owners are not Tai Sai, others do have rights and we are infringing into their right to a peaceful and healthy life.

To be honest, for the BHs @ town to stay, there is no way for open window type as these type will bring future problem for the industry for not only sound pollution, smell and dust pollution will follow.

I am talking as a neutral guy who suffer from the BH and also gain from the industry. Above are my own feelings and others may feel differently and may wish to speak up. No intention of offending anyone but being a honest man, I just speak from my heart and what I believe that it is the best in the interest of the majorities of BHs @ towns.


In my personal humble opinion, I think your using of a NEUTRAL GUY should be replaced with VICTIM and that you cannot be considered neutral as you are a VICTIM. My sympathy is with you and also I share your feeling as I faced similar experiences. Despite that I am also owner of BH, but I did caution a few BH owners for causing noise pollution in the neighbourhood and most gratefully accepted our highlighting with appreciation and corrected situations immediately and we became good friends. But a couple chose not to heed advice and continued with the blasting, not the non- BH owner residents but we, the BH owners jointly made serious complaints in writing to the Majlis and compelled the authority to take action against these two. End of the day, one rectified with no more noise pollution caused. The other was permanently shut off the operation as it was a rented premise. We are all BH owners and that we are most vulnerable if any one of us causes nuisance, every BH owner in the same vicinity would likely face indiscriminate finger pointing and may get into trouble not caused by us. Therefore it is our moral obligation to the neighbourhood to ensure to exert self control and regulating as not only we ourselves must not cause but also to ensure other BH owners not to cause nuisance. It is better for BH owners to warn and insist fellow errant owner to rectify situation than letting the local RESIDENT COMMITTEE to make noise which could be out of control and spill over to every innocent BH owner. This is one of the main reason why DL has repeatedly advised and encouraged localized BH association be formed in each and every town. It is not only to fend for owns rights from being abused by certain unscrupulous officials but also to do self control and regulating not only on its members but all BHs in the vicinity to minimize problems


High respect is given to WW that he chose not to exercise his legitimate rights to force the errant BH to stop the noise pollution but silently he swallowed it by footing for the cost to cover up the back window. WW is a really kind and considerate senior citizen for those who know him. But, a question raised here. Did the nuisance really stopped? What about your other immediate neighbours? Did they tolerate just like you? And did what you did? What are the objectives and functions of your local association? Do your committee live up to expectation? No offend, just curious. Ok?

This post has been edited by Lucas 1: Mar 4 2010, 07:33 PM

Dear Lucas 1,
IMHO we are way past the option of 'self-regulation'.
It's good for as a point in 'LESSONS LEARNT' though.

Just tell how to prevent the sound from coming out of a window type of entrance cos even the inside sound will be disturbing and annoying to others.

If you are @ Seremban, you will understand that the Local Authorities groups is 100% against the BH @ towns and no way that the open window can solve the problem of sound even if you are not playing birds music for if your BH has thousands of birds, habis lah for those who are staying behind your BH.

1.If you have been into successful BH having thousands of birds, you will understand how noisy it is.........
2. We well know for the facts that the birds do shit at entrance and open window will cause shit to fall on the floor below and some poor guy's heads.
3. Wind will cause the smell and the dirt to scatter around the area and no way you can prevent it from happening.
4. If you have been running a local swiftlets Association, you will understand how difficult to solve complaints with sound pollution from open window type..........

Once, I told the Local Authorities to let us to self manage BHs in the town and in less than a year, I gave up trying......and quit!!!! Majlis receive hundreds of complaints and one even told me that the YTP assured him that the whole town wil be rid of BHs if he has the say and that's very soon..........

Uncle West Wing,

That is most informative.
Thank you.
I stand corrected and shall keep my peace on window types.

This post has been edited by Cergau: Mar 4 2010, 09:30 PM

WW, old buddy, long time no chat with you. You have posted some very interesting scenario and problems that worth some deliberations and discussions for the benefit of all here…… I think I would like to share some possible solutions from our past experience that has worked.

Just tell how to prevent the sound from coming out of a window type of entrance cos even the inside sound will be disturbing and annoying to others

If there are already thousands of birds living inside a successful BH, for the experienced, no longer external and internal sound is required to play further. The natural sound emitted by the live birds inside can never be that sharp, loud and noisy as the music blasted from the external tweeters. If genuine complaints of noise nuisance received regardless of which ever type of entrance, appropriate enforcement action should be taken by the local council according to the procedure under the Nuisance Act to tackle. .

If you are @ Seremban, you will understand that the Local Authorities groups is 100% against the BH @ towns and no way that the open window can solve the problem of sound even if you are not playing birds music for if your BH has thousands of birds, habis lah for those who are staying behind your BH.

Same reply as above.


1.If you have been into successful BH having thousands of birds, you will understand how noisy it is.........

Yes, agree, noisy and pleasing INSIDE the BH if without music from the external tweeters.


2. We well know for the facts that the birds do shit at entrance and open window will cause shit to fall on the floor below and some poor guy's heads.

How sure are you that this does not happen to those open roof and dog kennel type?

3. Wind will cause the smell and the dirt to scatter around the area and no way you can prevent it from happening.


Don’t see or have these problems with rows of 3 & 4 storey very successful BHs of few thousands nests each with more than 6 to 10 years in operation in a very busy business centre. Ground floors are all occupied with Nasi Kandar, 24hr coffee shop, clinic, stationary shop etc…..Less than 100 meters right behind is a residential garden.


4. If you have been running a local swiftlets Association, you will understand how difficult to solve complaints with sound pollution from open window type..........

Once, I told the Local Authorities to let us to self manage BHs in the town and in less than a year, I gave up trying......and quit!!!! Majlis receive hundreds of complaints and one even told me that the YTP assured him that the whole town wil be rid of BHs if he has the say and that's very soon..........


The committee are not firmed enough nor dared enough to tell the stubborn errant culprits off. Moreover, the committee does not have the law enforcing power. What they can do if really live up to expectation, they should complain directly to the council and let the council to tackle under Nuisance Act. Question here is whether the committee has the GUTS?

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Added on March 5, 2010, 12:31 amNever too late to reveal and take off the mask of hypocrite and incapable committee as more and more newbies are pouring into this industry. It is good for them to learn the painful experience and mistakes of the pioneers so they would not repeat. I think it is time that the younger generation of higher calibre and educated volunteers with the right mindset should come forward to take over the baton as soon as possible..

This post has been edited by Lucas 1: Mar 5 2010, 12:31 AM

I try to be in the shoe of the victim of the one who don't own a bird house. Of course noise pollution is a nuisance especially if its an artificial bird sound from the speaker. People bought properties for peace of mind. If there are any newborn than the problem to keep the peace and silent is even important than anything as a parent. But there's a possible solution and regulation to control it , like cergau said its the Enforcement that is the problem . You don't blame the Train if it knock down the tresspasser, right? I know some still blame the Train Driver for not Braking enough... !!

On the No 2. let's not presume it will hit on somebody head and became an issue .

I think solution of the bird problems really depends on how you want to solve it with the ocean of creativity one has. If that person cannot solve the problem than in the first place don't go into this business as these business requires brain and creative ideas . Who knows someone will patent new products or new house design .

the only set back is to allow stupidity runs the association and let the whole seremban bird house crumbles when opportunity to

1) Create New Jobs
2) Tourism
3) Investors
4) Tax returns
5) Film Location and potential research centers.
6) Put Malaysia interesting industry in Discovery and National Geography Channel .

whether u are window, dog kennel or open roof.

with 1GP condition set at whatever noise level that they are going to set, all must comply.

Open roof will be at advantages n window n dog kennel sound level will most likedly whispering to comply to the condition.

You don't have to put the rule said to shut downs all window type or dog kennel type!!!.

those that can modify to open roof, without u giving them notices , they WILL do it !!!!...

THOSE THAT CAN'T....will have to control their sounds at whispering or soundless level.....

tired. bye.


WE ARE DIGGING HOLES N MORE HOLES HERE....CAN WE PATCH IT UP LATER??

THINK BEFORE YOU REPLY.

IF I AM WRONG, I AM SORRY!. SIMPLE AS THAT.

IF I AM RIGHT, I AM SORRY TOO...

Who actually Win here? Everyone is a loser.

Tired. bye.

It is better to have all the holes exposed so we know how to patch them with the best solution rather than let them hidden and become booby traps that kill us later.

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Added on March 5, 2010, 10:37 pmUnderstand till todate it is between 4.2 to 4.5/kg for the 1st grade.


This post has been edited by Lucas 1: Mar 5 2010, 10:37 PM