Any realistic suggestion for immediate action?
May I suggest for now, instead of just venting our anger, lets all comment on the contents of the draft 1GP and decide the next course of action.
Any little help is appreciated.

Addition to all those...

5) people with lack of interest or knowledge in bird nest farming were given authorities to scrutinize and inspect the place. What more without proper gadgets and education to determine the results of the condition and hazardous farms. It will be more appropriate for agri or vets researchers to provide better knowledge or ideas to improve conditions rather than penalizing the bird house owners.

6) Lawmakers drafting up new laws based on 1-2 prominent consultant which claimed to be the pioneers and experts in the field. Law was suppose to improve the industry instead of protecting a few big players interest .

---

Added on February 21, 2010, 1:09 pmHi Cergau,

As a newbie in the industry, i summarize this problems to find out if any of it is true as what i read here. Assuming that this is true and I also read that there were others like DB( whos is he, what is DB ?) who had gone through the problems and gave up the cause in the end.

For the next course of action, we must first know what kind or who is in this thread ?

First we need the right people with previous knowledge, expert farmers and also new blood to jumpstart this .

In this thread, you will have all sort of people

1) Consultant
2) Expert ( more 10 bird houses)
2) Medium to Intermediate ( less than 5 houses)
3) Small ( 1-2 houses)
4) NEW but no BH yet, intent to go in but afraid.

I believe different people have different rolls to play as well.

First is to re address the 1GP guide line to see if they are practical and logic or not. The reason is because i notice that some expert believes that Swiftlet is not a carrier to avian flu because they don't land on the ground and always above the air. Then there were some who twisted the fact and even publicly address the bird disease as one of the problem.

If any of you want to help in this, you have to come out and meet . this will be the start that will work outside the framework of the association and represent all folks.

[

This post has been edited by hackwire: Feb 21 2010, 01:10 PM

The commercial lots, there won't be much difference with the 2005 guideline or regulations imposed by KPKT (kementerian perumahan dan kerajaan tempatan, i'll post the PBT guideline tonight), but once it becomes policy, the enforcement may become more stringent and widespread. Those who previously were not approached by PBT, will be approached. Leniency might be a thing of the past. Still, since no move out order was mentioned, i am relieved. Previously Jabatan Perancang Bandar & Desa was minimally involved, but not they may play a vital role... this being based on the Land Code whereby for state matters, they can issue orders whether an area can or cannot be developed for swiftlet activities.

Some contents of the guideline are contradictory. Distance from residential areas (the 0.5km & 150m), usage of audio. A ratio of 1 out of every 5 lots are allowed for swiftlet activities. Standalones on agri land MUST be converted to Building.

WHAT ISN'T mentioned... the existing lots that clearly 'violate' the proposed guideline. We must be wary of this since in the end, a policy will depend on its implementation and since the executors are mostly the PBT... they can and will enforce the powers allocated.

Lets follow the cabinet response closely.

hi guys, i have some request here. can someone post out the full meaning of the abbreviation or short form used. myself sometime trying to figure out these words like PBT, DB etc... . Because there are so many dept and posts refering in this industry, internet short form were used to simplify long sentences.

thanks

Dunsun,
I doubt the cabinet can make any sense of this draft in the current state of readiness.
As you have mentioned, there are quite a few contradictions.
If this guideline in the state we now have at hand, gets approved then we know Cabinet fellas just 'bantai' approve only.
It's madness, this whole draft is piecemeal with inputs from diff authors and badly put together w/o rational.

I am struggling to build an alternative & found myself handicapped by not owning a shophse BH to provide insights into their peculiar situation in regards to section 6.

I am GIVING UP to try for a complete alternative but instead a partial comments only.

Yes, there is no outright statement that says shophouse BH is not allowed.
The conditions laid are impossible to comply with so 'SECARA HALUS' shophouse is not allowed or suffer endless harrassment until you give up.

---

Added on February 21, 2010, 4:44 pmMy effort thus far, I AM NOT going for an alternative as I find that every other statement require clarification from the author on the basis and justification.


Edible Bird Nest Guidelines
(Draft)

1 Latar Belakang
1.1 – 1.5 – no comments
Addendum
1.6 With the initial observation of the swiftlet’s preference for old shophouses along the coast. Further developments of man made swiftlet habitat for the collection of edible bird nest has been concentrated among coastal shophouses which then spilled over to abandoned shophouses. It was initially viewed positively as a means of utilizing (recycling) these properties for an alternative economic activity. With time foot traffic increases which saw the reopening of these once abandoned shophouses which signaled the start of the resident complaints of smell, noise & fear of avian influenza, be it real or unsubstantiated perception.

2 Objectif

Amendment (just my suggestion, if the agencies can get their Objectif clear, then everything else will fall into place)

2.1)To Facilitate the growth to 100,000 birdhouses producing 500 tonnes of edible bird nest annually worth RM5billion by year 2020.
(source - http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v5/newsfeat....php?id=461591)

2.2)To ensure achievement of objective 1 is accompanied by a 85% reduction in public complaints in regards to smell, noise and fear of avian borne diseases by 2012.
(note#2 Each agencies will plan out their annual action points through to 2020 with the SMART methodology. Additional funding if required is clearly stated with justification and how achievement is to be measured. )

2.3)To ensure that the commercialization of Aerodramus Fuciphagus does not impact negatively the vulnerability of the wild cave populations, also in tandem pro active action to wind down cave harvesting with Govt funded bird house for the original harvestors by 2012.

2.4)To intiate and commission research in conjunction with other institutions, industry players and residential associations to either dispel, disprove, overcome or mitigate as the case may be. the issues of smell, noise and fear of disease by 2011. Results of said research to be freely available to the general public.

Each objective may be taken wholly or shared by all concerned enforcement and licensing entities with different weightages as per the expertise and influence of the specific entities. The overall accountability for success of the above objectives lies with the lead entity.
(Note #1 The existing objective is way off the the published objective of the DPM.

3 PERUNDANGAN
– no comments

4 PEMAKAIAN
4.1 Garis panduan ini terpakai untuk spesis Aerodramus fuciphagus ( Edible -
nest Swiftlet ) dan Aerodramus maxima ( Black - nest Swiftlet ) dan
merangkumi seluruh Semenanjung Malaysia . Garis panduan in! adalah•
tertaktuk kepada pindaan dari masa ke masa

(Note#3 Need feedback from readers, I have no idea what this is.)

5 KEPERLUAN LESEN
5.1 Pengusaha yang ingin menjalankan peru'sahaan sarang burung perlu
mendapatkan lesen - lesen daripada agensii kerajaan berikut;

Jenis Lesen AgensiB~rtanggun~awab

(i)Lesen Premis Pihak Berkuasa Tempatan
(ii)Lesen Perniagaan Pihak Be'rkuasa Tempatan
(iii)Lesen Mengambil Sarang Jabatan PERHILITAN
(iv)Lest?n Perniagaan Hidupan Liar Jabatan PERHILITAN
(v)Lesen Import I Eksport H I Liar Jabatan PERHILITAN

(Note#4 There is no trading nor exchange of cash in the premises why the requirement?)


6 KEPERLUAN. I SYARAT PERMOHONAN' LESEN . PIHAK BERKUASA
TEMPATAN.

6.1 Status Tanah ;:
i. Hendaklah dikategorikan sebagai bangunan perniagaan
ii. Bagi bangunan ' free standing I di atas tanah pertanian , syarat nyata tanah ditukar kepada kategori bangunan perniagaan.
(note#5 How does it help in the achievement of the objectives. Further clarification required on basis and justification).

6.2 Jarak Bangunan
i. Mempunyai jarak 150 m daripada mana - mana bangunan kediaman berdekatan.
ii. Hendaklah tidak kurang dari 0.5 km. daripada kawasan perumahan dan bangunan komersial.
(note#6 This is a very damaging catch all requirement. This will render all shophouse BH units not compliant. Further clarification required).



This post has been edited by Cergau: Feb 21 2010, 04:44 PM

THE URGENT STEPS TO HELP OVERCOME IMMINENT CATATROPHIC DISASTER AND ONSLAUGHT THREATENING THE BH OWNERS AND INDUSTRY AND THE ECONOMY IN MALAYSIA.


1. Round up as many volunteers from this forum to be vanguards to start with.

2. Appeal, head hunt and invite those who have direct or indirect interest in this industry and not involved in or dissatisfied, disagreed or disappointed with the main stream such as the Federation Asso…. to start with.

3. To start finding and join force with the local associations or to start a new taskforce.

4. Must stop the poorly and unprofessionally drafted and misleading guidelines from being tabled for approval to become law.

5. There are many others including professionals and NGOs who are not involved in this industry but righteous enough to prepare to help in. Go and highlight to the various local Chamber of Commerce in your area. This issue is not only affecting those involved directly but has a chain of negative effect on the economy in the long run.

6. It will become the social and national problem. If the present Govt not careful enough to resolve this issue, this could become the spark that starts the wild fire engulfing and spreading across the country that causes or expedites the downfall of the ruling Govt. ANOTHER MUCH BIGGER POLITICAL TSUNAMI THAN THE LAST ONE COULD BE IN THE BUILD UP FOR THE NEXT ELECTION TO DROWN THE PROVEN INEFFICIENT BN IF THEY ARE TAKING IT LIGHTLY. (WONDERING WHY ARE THEY DIGGING OWN GRAVE?)

7. Go and complain to your local Members of Parliament and the ADUNs regardless they are from whichever party. This is their duty to protect your legitimate rights and interests.

8. Give out together with its translation in Chinese and English the proposed draft guidelines with highlights of consequences to as many as possible and as soon as possible including all the media and all the law makers, all the Ministers and Prime Minister to create NATIONAL AWARENESS through hard and soft copies. The media would be more than happy to publicize it. (Probably these law makers are still day-dreaming in cosy corners not aware of the big prank given by the Civil Service on them or are pulling their legs)
.
9. From the drafted guidelines, it looks like the various Civil Service Dept never change nor improve. They are getting worse and are still trying greedily to split the cake as usual behind the back of the ruling politicians. It also looks like it is not the elected ruling politicians that decide and rule this country but the Civil Services is dictating.

10. Refer to the History of the Malaysia Bird Nest Industry written by DL since 2002 in which many of the present situations and problems happening now are forecasted and described long ago. He has provided the proposed solutions which should be the basis for your appeal, reasoning, argument and counter proposals. Remember, the Art of Negotiation is you don’t only point out the wrongs without giving the appropriate solutions.

11. Remember, when you are defending and fighting hard to protect your interest, please do it for all under the same umbrella sincerely and loyally without any discrimination and prejudice and don’t stop at all cost till victory or a better Govt elected if inevitable or unavoidable.

12. It is again looks like a rather immediate and urgent life and death battle and situation faced by all the BH owners and those involved directly or indirectly in the whole country. The hard earn life savings of the majority will be wiped off as their business and lifelines gone, properties tumble with their boys become thieves and robbers and daughters become prostitutes and the economy of the whole nation will also tumble with Malaysia in parallel rating with African countries and the scenario is going to be most chaotic ever since Independence if this draft guidelines were to be passed and executed. The ruling Govt is committing political suicide.

13. Time for immediate OWN PHYSICAL ACTION rather than keep on talking, telling, advising, appealing, hoping and waiting for others to initiate action which in the end of the days, NOBODY DOES. STAND UP AND BE UNITED WITHOUT FEAR TO FEND FOR YOUR LEGITIMATE RIGHTS AND INTERESTS. UNITY IS STRENGTH. YOU DECIDE YOUR OWN FATE AND FUTURE. So, be pro-active.

The contents in this forum can be use as a guideline as many experts had advise that can really be useful.

first of all, we need to collect the threads from this forum and specifically pin point the real solution.

this is an opportunity for everyone to form a case study group now. The only thing i know of is that if a group of people gathers, than an association must be form . What can we do ? A Special Task Force?

.

This post has been edited by ChanK: Mar 2 2010, 09:07 PM

1GP Analysis Study

1) Statistic is only an estimation.
2) Statistic Chart was 10 years old .
3) how they derived this statistical figures.
4)2.1 Untuk memastik.an perkembangan industri sarang burung layang - layang
..di negarti ini ·terkawal serta mematuhi perundangan dan peraturan semua
agensikerajaan yang berkaitan dengan industri ini.

(to ensure the growth of swiftlet industry in this country is control and adhere to the rules and laws of all agencies concerned.)

What does this clause meant ? To control / restrict more swiftlet business in the industry . Its contradictory to what they had said in the public news and media. I dont like the word “Control”. So , even if a genuine hobbyist intent to start a small business , he cannot get the licensing because he don’t know the right people (dato , minister or right hand man officials) and they are controlling the numbers in the territories , isn’t this an opportunity for govt dept to corrupt? What and where is the guideline and limitation of this word “ Control”. This wasn’t specify in the 1GP draft and its too general and can be interpret at wish or desire by the unscrupulous authorities.

5. 2.2 Untuk memastikan aktiviti pengambilan sarang burung layang - layang
tidak akan menjejaskan populasi semulajadi burung layang - layang tersebut.:
2.3 Mengawal dan menyelaras pengambflan sarang burung layang - layang
agar ianya dijalankan secara lestari.

Where is the structure and guidelines for the BH owners to follow? Can it be done by just highlighting the record books? Again 2.2 AND 2.3 makes very similar clause and have no understanding of how it suppose to be done . Lack of depth and poor knowledge already been identified in these two clauses? Who were the responsible parties in these? Who drafted out the clause? We will see.

6. 3.1 Undan~ -undang Kedl Bangunan Seragam 1986 yang dipakai oleh Pihak
Berkuasa Tempatan akan dikuatkuasa bagi perkara - perkara melibatkan
pengubahsuaian bangunan sedia ada untuk tujuan industri burung layang
-Iayang

What was happening in 1986. I think of Penang Bridge and Proton Saga. Can we utilize an old buiilding law for the current BH which had improved over the years. Where is the latest studies on BH building plan guidelines under this draft. I think most renovated old BH shoplots is not a rocket science stuff but as long as they do not create dangerous extension to harm people. I would still love to see the Do’s and Don’t when designing the BH drafted out clearly .


to be continue...
pls input anything u wish to say... i wish i was wrong than right.im just a newbie but im not stupid. the draft looks like a scam to me.

---

Added on February 21, 2010, 10:00 pmPart 2

7. Kementerian Kesihatan mengguna pakai Akta Pemusnahan Serangga
Pembawa Penyakit 1975 (APSPP 1975 ) didalam mengawal serangga -
serangga pembawa penyakit supaya tidak mendatangkan masalah kepada
kesihatan awam. Dibawah Akta APSPP 75 yang dimaksudkan , burung
telah diistiharkan dalam jadual ( Ruj: RKPBV/6/5/1 LLD.IJ.PN. PU 297)
sebagai salah satu daripada ' serangga pembawa penyakit I I oleh itu
pengusaha sarang burung layang - layang hendaklah mematuhi keperluan
dan kehendak Akta Jabatan Kesihatan sebelum mendapatkan lesen
perusahaannya.

This definition is very misleading. Are they talking about avian flu or any of the bird disease possible in the future, seems like their focus is on the disease or virus of the insect. I will be surprise if they can tell the difference between “burung” and “serangga” In this clause , they refer bird as “serangga pembawa penyakit”. If they can tell us that any of the insects that could cause disease or endanger any of the human lives than i would take best precaution of it. I would prefer to be educated on the disease of the serranga rather than happening to me. Who is more scare to contract the disease, of course the people working there everyday and the BH owner, common sense right.

8. 3.3 Spesies . burung layang-Iayang yang menghasilkan' sarang burung yang
boleh dimakan adalah· spesies yang diperlindungi dLbawah. Akta
Perlindungan Hjdupan Liar 1972, Akta 76. Status perlindungan in)
memerlukan segala aktiviti yang berkaitan dengari spesies ini tertakluk
kepada peraturan-peraturan yang terdapat dibawahAkta tersebut.


They consider this as a protected animal but i thought only extinct animals like turtle or tigers need protection. There are millions of these swiftlets now and if they want these birds to fall in the category of protected species than the authority and govt should be more concern on the air pollutions caused by illegal burning and factory waste burning that will cause the birds to migrate to other countries. If the Wildlife Dept so good in protecting the species, our turtles will not face extinction because of their lack of interest to cut down sea pollution . I would prefer the wildlife dept to fine the Department of Environment for not strong enough to prosecute arsonist that cause bush fire and haze in this country.

9. 3.4 Peraturan yang telah diwujud dibawah Akta Perlindungan Hidupan Liar
1972, Akta 76 , memperuntukkan agar fee dikenakan bagi menjalankan.
aktiviti pengambilan sarang burung layang - layang. Disamping itu I fee
juga dikenakan untuk tujuan import dan eksport.

I think most of you wouldn’t mind to pay these fees to them if they have done a good job to stop peat fires and illegal dumpsite that could pollute and endanger this species. Where’s the logic behind this fees? What kind of fees ? Are they interested in providing security to the BH ? I thought more incentives should be given to the BH owners for providing safe sanctuary for this ENDANGERED AND PROTECTED BIRDS. Can we claim from WWF or ask some of the Charities fund from WWF and I believe the govt will help the one who help the govt to protect their beloved National Treasure by building a cave like environment to increase the bird population.


This post has been edited by hackwire: Feb 21 2010, 10:00 PM

Yes, to start with an ad hoc SPECIAL TASK FORCE then a protem Association and eventually an approved and registered Association in later and final stage. For all the convenience, should round up those residing in Central Region within the radius of 200km first to meet and decide next immediate course of action and key men appointed with different role to lead and to coordinate. All of you will have to jump start due to urgency. There is no law in Malaysia preventing the formation of another similar nature association in anywhere. All govt dept would have to entertain all recognised Associations and there is no such thing as exclusive or monopoly. In fact, the 1st and the only bird’s nest association is known as MALAYSIA BIRD’S NEST MERCHANTS ASSOCIATION (MBNMA) which was started in 2000 and approved in 2003. It is totally different from the present so-called Federation Association (FA) which was formed very many years later due to certain political agenda. You all should be smart enough to know why.
MBNMA is not a member of the FA and neither associated with it. There are no less than 50 state level and localised bn associations across Malaysia and many are not associated with the FA. Sometimes, in a single state, there coexist few similar nature state level associations. And several towns also have 2 or more. FA does not have the representation for all and neither mandate from all. It only represents a certain group. It is very misleading of what it claims to represent all.
Go ahead and start the ball rolling first……. the rest will appear at the right timing……such as contacts, the Ministers’ personal hps, the right depts to talk to…..all the other people who disagree or discontented with the none transparency way of doing thing of the FA will start knocking your door…….and join you…..mind you, they are all watching and waiting for the signal here…..

alright, lets find the right date for this gathering. It has to start with date , time and venue.

Friday , 8pm at ....?? venue... must be quite , tables and chairs, ample parking space...

let's start the milestone.

Why don't you all start to liaise with among few of u through phone 1st for details and decide for a date and time and then post here to openly invite the other volunteers directly contact or join you? Get the other to pm u to give their hps....Sometimes, not many wish their identity exposed openly here....despite they are keen to help and participate......

actually once the group is form, there is no more hiding behind the cloak . there's no Dr Jekyl and Mr Hide personality. of course the association is not to create any conflicts but to work with all problems facing BH owners.

those feels that its a tedious job or too much of time is lost shouldn't be in the committee as the passion is not there. I know some of you can even travel for many kilometres to find birds but what's the point if you don't built the foundation first and let the problem comes to you. Please discard whatever old habits thinking that your problem can be solve by bribes . Once you are caught red handed by imposters than there is no turning back . you could spent your rest of your money in jail.

by doing right things now is your journey to the first step in building your first bird house with "Peace of Mind" .

hi cergau,
the bird call tester u test success to lure the bird?u connect to your car battery is it??so the total cost for the DIY kit is around rm 150 is it??
i am planning to build a DIY kit like yours. hopefully u can give me some guidance

This post has been edited by ahwee1987: Feb 22 2010, 12:05 AM

ahwee1987,
What I did was to ask the sales chap exactly how I was to wire the speakers to the amplifier.
I made him test each and every tweeter for me though they cost less than RM3 each.
(I am no expert by any measure.) Bought all the material, yes for less than RM150.
Fitted and tested fine all wired up (without soldering).
Found the box, cut out to fit the tweeters, solder the wires to the tweeters permanently.
Screw everything firmly into the box so nothing moves during transportation.
No I do not use the battery off the car, I carry a separate 12V battery in the car for the purpose.
I notice the amplifier gets hot with use, so the draw must be BIG.
I wouldnt want to be stranded in far off places with a flat car battery.
It may be safe to do the testing with the car running but I chose not to.

As for the testing, I would suggest you bring along a GPS so that you can mark out where you were.
For a better sense of the place , you manually or download thru serial cable to Google Earth.
Then you will be able to see the topo, existence of of big water, vegetation and so forth from satellite photos.
If you had also the waypoint (GPS speak) of the nearby successful BHs then you will be able to gauge whcih way the birds fly.

Dear Friends, Could it be a outdated version of GP1 being posted here as normally Cabinet papers are prepared professionally under the Official Secrets Act stamp . The one posted is very unprofessional with typo errors and 1999 data. Currently we have 50,000 BHs and 1.5 billions revenue which is common knowledge. Anyway no harm taking precautionary measures.

Birdfarm,
My sentiments also.
My guess is the main contents will be in place despite being tidied up.
The draft we are now reading is still w/o the Min of Health feedback which was stated in Dec 2009 in the MOA website.
My guess this draft is at least as old as that MOA statement on their website.
With their tendencies for being territorial, I tend to believe the bulk of the conditions are still in the one presented to the Cabinet.

I dunno know what to summarise to my MP, I think I will try that tomorrow.

cergau,

dude..thanks so much for your info...
i will try to build the DIY kit similar like yours..hopefully it can lure some bird..haha.
by the way..this evening.the time i test is around 5.15pm to 6pm..i did a testing on top of my roof using my house amplifier and a speaker playing the external sound where i download from http://swiftlethacks.blogspot.com/2008/11/...from-kb.html..i tested both external but seem like not successful..
i try to open as loud as possible..but seem like no bird ..i can see some swiftlet passing around..but it wont circle around.and i also notice that if i didnt open the sound..the swiftlet also will pass through...is it something wrong with my speaker or the external i play the bird doesnt like is it? i can confirm my amplifier is working vry fine..i did try using this 2 speaker as i attach below..but both of them can't lure and swiftlet..=.=..or i need to go buy a tweeter like the one selling at jalan pasar to test?..


Attached thumbnail(s)

.

This post has been edited by ChanK: Mar 2 2010, 09:08 PM

Brother Lucas 1!!!

Bro birdfarm, an advocate from DVS (Department of Veterinary Services) confirmed the copy in hand is the 1GP, whether its the latest version or not, was not mentioned. For those unfamiliar with draft/revised policies... all i can say... the language used initially is in Malay... not only with typos but confusing sentences as well. Cabinet papers... professional... humm... some... not all, trust me on that. I had experience translating a few policies under KPDN & KPWKM... i tell you... i felt like shooting the guys that made these policies. Most of the people drafting policies are Malays, but damn... some sentences don't make any sense, and initial drafts typically use outdated data & indicators (due to the simple fact that they don't have any recent ones).

What is mentioned by DVS friends... MOA, specifically DVS is under pressure from other ministries. Politicians have seen the 'potential' squeezing from the industry... this itself is motivation enough for them to use terms such as 'organizing', 'regulating' & 'monitoring' and giving past experiences with commercial poultry/chicken farming as excuses (it is a valid excuse to me, BUT they must understand that SSP is different, ia bukan ternakan secara conventional, even the word 'ternakan' is not accurate and does not describe SSP properly). Those drafting the 1GP are government servants... boss say do, they do. i agree with hackwire's method, garner more and more support... spread the word... possibly we all sign a memorandum or make a unified bantahan which must be visible to the media. For now, link our networks... and standby to see the 1GP being tabled.

I am beginning to see ChanK's point... previously the GAHP was not so clear cut about the rolls of PBT (pihak berkuasa tempatan or the local council). With the 1GP further strengthening and giving PBT more authority... damn... can't imagine the consequences. Forget about the black sheeps of the industry... those law abiding BH's will also be squeezed... here's the standard guideline followed by most PBT's, issued by KPKT (Kementerian Perumahan & Kerajaan Tempatan).

Here's what most PBT's are using previously... since 2005. The circular mentioned working together with other agencies. Different PBT's may have different approaches, some may link with 2 or 3 agencies, some may link with more before considering approval. Just remember... commercial lots licensing comes under PBT's licensing, but for standalones under its OSC/Pusat setempat that refers to JPBD (Jabatan Perancangan Bandar & Desa). This 1GP will definitely further empower PBT's authority...

http://www.scribd.com/doc/27229117/KPKT-2005-Guideline