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 Resignation Handbook, Revamp in progress 240614

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Belphegor
post Jul 18 2019, 12:11 PM

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QUOTE(rikimarumal @ Jul 18 2019, 10:06 AM)
thanks for your feedback.

as per my relative statement, she's been threatened by the owner of the company, police report has been made.
and for the duration of work (2 years) she's has not been given any offer/confirmation letter to sign.

this is weird because after getting more information from her, actually the letter is from labor office requesting compensation from my relative....
*
Then get your relative to go labor office to clarify on these no letter issue first. Labor office will advice what to do on her case.
rikimarumal
post Jul 19 2019, 10:16 PM

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QUOTE(Belphegor @ Jul 18 2019, 12:11 PM)
Then get your relative to go labor office to clarify on these no letter issue first. Labor office will advice what to do on her case.
*
thanks. i'll ask my relative to discuss with the related labor officer.
fylon
post Sep 9 2019, 03:29 PM

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Hi guys.. Need some advise regards on resignation.

1. My current company resignation period is 60 days, and my new job offer required me to join within 1 month means I will need to shorten my notice period from 60 days to 30 days. So per my offer letter and contract, I will need to pay salary in lieu in order to release myself.

So my question is: How much do I suppose to pay? Is it the total that I received (basis, fixed allowance and incentive) in 1 month without minus EPF and SOCSO?

2. My current company practice prorate annual leave calculation, and we can bring maximum 7 days to next year. So I have brought over 5 days from last year and I'm entitled 16 days this year whereby I've used 11 days in total this year (left 10 in total now).

So my question is: how do I calculate how much leave I left right now (might use for offset notice if HR allowed)?

Thanks in advance for admin / any reader that going to enlighten me.

This post has been edited by fylon: Sep 9 2019, 03:37 PM
Belphegor
post Sep 10 2019, 12:05 AM

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QUOTE(fylon @ Sep 9 2019, 03:29 PM)
Hi guys.. Need some advise regards on resignation.

1. My current company resignation period is 60 days, and my new job offer required me to join within 1 month means I will need to shorten my notice period from 60 days to 30 days. So per my offer letter and contract, I will need to pay salary in lieu in order to release myself.

So my question is: How much do I suppose to pay? Is it the total that I received (basis, fixed allowance and incentive) in 1 month without minus EPF and SOCSO?

2. My current company practice prorate annual leave calculation, and we can bring maximum 7 days to next year. So I have brought over 5 days from last year and I'm entitled 16 days this year whereby I've used 11 days in total this year (left 10 in total now).

So my question is: how do I calculate how much leave I left right now (might use for offset notice if HR allowed)?

Thanks in advance for admin / any reader that going to enlighten me.
*
1. You required to pay basic as the salary in lieu. Fixed allowance and incentive are not included into the basic, thus not counted.

2. This need to check with HR. Some HR prefer you to pro-rate it, some will require you to work fully and to get reimbursement if your handover work could not complete. 11 days, 5 should be from 5 of previous year. You have 10 days all from this year. It will just deduct your notice period or get cash in lieu.
fylon
post Sep 10 2019, 09:16 AM

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QUOTE(Belphegor @ Sep 10 2019, 12:05 AM)
1. You required to pay basic as the salary in lieu. Fixed allowance and incentive are not included into the basic, thus not counted.

2. This need to check with HR. Some HR prefer you to pro-rate it, some will require you to work fully and to get reimbursement if your handover work could not complete. 11 days, 5 should be from 5 of previous year. You have 10 days all from this year. It will just deduct your notice period or get cash in lieu.
*
Got it!

As what I heard from my friend who worked as Senior HR Exec, if the word "wage" mentioned in the contract then it means salary + all the allowance else, salary means only the basis.

Just wonder, is this statement valid?
Belphegor
post Sep 10 2019, 04:31 PM

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QUOTE(fylon @ Sep 10 2019, 09:16 AM)
Got it!

As what I heard from my friend who worked as Senior HR Exec, if the word "wage" mentioned in the contract then it means salary + all the allowance else, salary means only the basis.

Just wonder, is this statement valid?
*
This varies from company to company. From what I know, you only need to give your basic as salary in lieu as you will not be receiving the allowance and whatnot during your serving notice period.


kirakun
post Sep 11 2019, 12:00 PM

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QUOTE(fylon @ Sep 9 2019, 03:29 PM)
Hi guys.. Need some advise regards on resignation.

1. My current company resignation period is 60 days, and my new job offer required me to join within 1 month means I will need to shorten my notice period from 60 days to 30 days. So per my offer letter and contract, I will need to pay salary in lieu in order to release myself.

So my question is: How much do I suppose to pay? Is it the total that I received (basis, fixed allowance and incentive) in 1 month without minus EPF and SOCSO?

2. My current company practice prorate annual leave calculation, and we can bring maximum 7 days to next year. So I have brought over 5 days from last year and I'm entitled 16 days this year whereby I've used 11 days in total this year (left 10 in total now).

So my question is: how do I calculate how much leave I left right now (might use for offset notice if HR allowed)?

Thanks in advance for admin / any reader that going to enlighten me.
*
1. Is your salary range is 2k and below? If it is then you are covered under the employment act. U can drop a call to labor department to seek advice on the salary in lieu of notice. Anything above 5k will be at the discretion of the company's hr and management of which most likely will include all the fixed allowances as salary in lieu of notice.

2. Best is to seek your HR for exact calculation on balance of leaves to offset your notice.

Edited: Salary range up to 2k that is covered by Employment Act except for those involved in manual labour. For 2-5k range, one can still seek industrial relations department for advice and if wronged by the company, industrial court is the direction to go.

This post has been edited by kirakun: Nov 10 2019, 05:53 PM
fylon
post Sep 11 2019, 10:01 PM

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QUOTE(Belphegor @ Sep 10 2019, 04:31 PM)
This varies from company to company. From what I know, you only need to give your basic as salary in lieu as you will not be receiving the allowance and whatnot during your serving notice period.
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QUOTE(kirakun @ Sep 11 2019, 12:00 PM)
1. Is your salary range below 5k? If it is then you are covered under the employment act. U can drop a call to labor department to seek advice on the salary in lieu of notice. Anything above 5k will be at the discretion of the company's hr and management of which most likely will include all the fixed allowances as salary in lieu of notice.

2. Best is to seek your HR for exact calculation on balance of leaves to offset your notice.
*
Hello guys! Thank you very much for the feedback, indeed I asked a few person and they all give me different answer. Guess the best one still is calling the labor department and check on it. And yes, my gaji is peanuts, less then 5k.
CareerSifu
post Sep 20 2019, 09:56 AM

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QUOTE(l4nc3k @ Feb 18 2019, 03:33 PM)
Need help or sharing from sifus here.. sad.gif

I currently work in an oil & gas MNC, but I am planning to resign because of some family issues and might take about 2 months break after resignation.

My question, is it advisable to do this if I plan to return to O&G field or just engineering field in general? Some of my peers suggested me to find a job first before resigning because a gap in my resume might be a warning sign to potential employers in the future.

I have a little bit more than 3 years experience in this current company, holding different portfolios and worked in different branches.

Thanks in advanced.
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Kinda depends on how urgent and dire your current family situation is. Resigning without a job might make it difficult for you to find your next job. Somehow it is always easier to go from one job to the next than from no job to a job. Also makes it easier to negotiate your new offer with the next company if you are still at a job versus if you have none.

You don't have to worry too much about the gap in resume so long as you have a valid and honest family reason and so long as the gap isn't more than 6 months. Anything more and it's a red flag.

Seems to me the best paying roles in O&G are commercial positions on the EPCC side or highly technical and niche engineering positions with oilfield operators/subcontractors. If you are still planning to be in O&G definitely try to be on the commercial side. I lost count of the number of 15-20k candidates we saw a few years ago who worked themselves into a tight corner unfortunately, highly technical and skilled, earning tons of money, but with little relevance to other industries. Unless if you are selling then it's easier to make the transition into equipment/chemical sales.

My brother has a similar background at a Norwegian O&G company but was retrenched due the plunge in oil prices a few years ago (he now runs his own business), I'm curious if you did manage to find something after resigning at your current company?
kollerss
post Sep 30 2019, 12:00 PM

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Hi guys,

Resigning in 3 days time, got all my letter ready and such,

i want to know is that who should i send the letter?, my head of department (whose in charge and should be the person i send the resignation letter to him) sayed

that i should send the letter directly to hr


should i now create 2 letters addressing to HR and my supervisor? aka Head of department

like ex. To HR(name) and 2nd letter TO supervisor(name)

or i should just send the softcopy to my supervisor and CC hr and pass the hardcopy to my supervisor as well?

some tips would be helpful
CareerSifu
post Oct 2 2019, 09:34 AM

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QUOTE(FatGrass91 @ Oct 1 2018, 11:58 AM)
Hi guys, I need your advice on this.

I got a job through an recruitment agency that had me sign a contract stating that I must work for at least 6 months before resignation however they did not give me a copy due to discretion/ policy.

Fast forward after working 4 months, I did not get along with the company and quit. Now will the recruitment company fine me a certain amount of money? As they did not state in the contract how much as I can remember. What happen if I do not want to pay them?
*
You can quit just fine and not suffer a fine from this recruitment company unless they're withholding your salary or they have your money somehow somewhere.

Also recruitment firms that impose such charges are probably small companies with limited networks and a small client list so don't worry at all about burning bridges.

I came from one of the largest recruitment companies in town and we only charge clients the fee (20-25% of candidate's annual fixed income), never the candidate. The candidate also doesn't owe us or the company loyalty of any kind.

Granted, we do have to provide some kind of a free replacement or a credit note in case the candidate resigns within guarantee period (I assume your recruitment company's guarantee period here is 6 months hence the rule to make you stay and fear leaving). But that's a risk that we absorb, not the candidate.
Belphegor
post Oct 10 2019, 09:27 AM

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QUOTE(kollerss @ Sep 30 2019, 12:00 PM)
Hi guys,

Resigning in 3 days time, got all my letter ready and such,

i want to know is that who should i send the letter?, my head of department (whose in charge and should be the person i send the resignation letter to him) sayed

that i should send the letter directly to hr
should i now create 2 letters addressing to HR and my supervisor? aka Head of department

like ex. To HR(name) and 2nd letter TO supervisor(name)

or i should just send the softcopy to my supervisor and CC hr and pass the hardcopy to my supervisor as well?

some tips would be helpful
*
For resignation, send it to your direct superior, CC to HR. There's no need to send to HOD if HOD is not your direct upline. Therethen give HR a printed copy for filing purpose.
mflayer158 P
post Nov 6 2019, 08:39 PM

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Hi all, need some advice. I signed a conditional offer (approved upon passing of pre-employment medical checkup) with my new employer a week ago.

1) HR of new employer is setting a timeline, I need to tender my resignation by end of this week. However my medical check up results isn't out yet hence no confirmation on new employer side. The question is can I backdate my resignation letter? Eg I hand it to HR manager with my superior CCed next week but letter stated "effective 8th November 2019"

2) Am I even allowed (legally) to sign an offer letter and not tender immediately?

Thanks for the advice. The whole resignation thing is rclxub.gif
CareerSifu
post Nov 7 2019, 09:20 AM

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QUOTE(mflayer158 @ Nov 6 2019, 08:39 PM)
Hi all, need some advice. I signed a conditional offer (approved upon passing of pre-employment medical checkup) with my new employer a week ago.

1) HR of new employer is setting a timeline, I need to tender my resignation by end of this week. However my medical check up results isn't out yet hence no confirmation on new employer side. The question is can I backdate my resignation letter? Eg I hand it to HR manager with my superior CCed next week but letter stated "effective 8th November 2019"

2) Am I even allowed (legally) to sign an offer letter and not tender immediately?

Thanks for the advice. The whole resignation thing is  rclxub.gif
*
You ask very relevant and valid questions - I'm always surprise that candidates in Malaysia, even senior ones, don't necessarily understand the way so many things can go wrong during an offer process.

1. I've seen offers retracted enough times due to medical test results that had red flags in them about a candidate, to know that your offer is never 100% secure until you've passed ALL mandatory pre-hiring processes and checks, AND you have gotten the offer letter in black and white (even an email does not suffice as that's not a legal document the way a letter of employment is).

So forget about backdating your letter. What you actually need to do is just politely inform HR that you'd like to wait for medical results to be out and for you to sign your offer letter before tendering your resignation. This is after all, what cautious, reasonable, and smart candidates with good judgment and understanding of risks do.

We are talking about just a few days difference, which isn't going to move the needle on how well you perform at the next company. If HR isn't on your side, try reasoning with the hiring manager. What will he do if he were in your shoes? Will he dare resign without passing a medical check - what happens if he discovers cancer in that process? Is the job offer still valid?

2. Yes you can. Once again, pay attention to the fact that there's always a tiny disclaimer in every offer letter in Malaysia stating something along the lines of 'employment or offer is valid subject to satisfactory passing of all pre-employment checks, etc.'

Another advice for when you finally resign: your current boss may freak out, refuse to meet you, try to stall for time to get a counter offer approved, whatever. Assuming you are dead set on leaving, remember to date your letter of resignation and keep HR cc-ed throughout. Your resignation is effective the day you sent that email/letter in, not the day HR or your boss accepts your resignation.


mflayer158 P
post Nov 7 2019, 03:15 PM

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QUOTE(CareerSifu @ Nov 7 2019, 09:20 AM)
You ask very relevant and valid questions - I'm always surprise that candidates in Malaysia, even senior ones, don't necessarily understand the way so many things can go wrong during an offer process.

1. I've seen offers retracted enough times due to medical test results that had red flags in them about a candidate, to know that your offer is never 100% secure until you've passed ALL mandatory pre-hiring processes and checks, AND you have gotten the offer letter in black and white (even an email does not suffice as that's not a legal document the way a letter of employment is).

So forget about backdating your letter. What you actually need to do is just politely inform HR that you'd like to wait for medical results to be out and for you to sign your offer letter before tendering your resignation. This is after all, what cautious, reasonable, and smart candidates with good judgment and understanding of risks do.

We are talking about just a few days difference, which isn't going to move the needle on how well you perform at the next company. If HR isn't on your side, try reasoning with the hiring manager. What will he do if he were in your shoes? Will he dare resign without passing a medical check - what happens if he discovers cancer in that process? Is the job offer still valid?

2. Yes you can. Once again, pay attention to the fact that there's always a tiny disclaimer in every offer letter in Malaysia stating something along the lines of 'employment or offer is valid subject to satisfactory passing of all pre-employment checks, etc.'

Another advice for when you finally resign: your current boss may freak out, refuse to meet you, try to stall for time to get a counter offer approved, whatever. Assuming you are dead set on leaving, remember to date your letter of resignation and keep HR cc-ed throughout. Your resignation is effective the day you sent that email/letter in, not the day HR or your boss accepts your resignation.
*
Thanks CareerSifu for the reply.

A small update to my previous questions. My new employer HR has confirmed over email that I have passed my medical check up and an on-boarding process will start.

Now comes the angry ex sweat.gif , I don't get along well with my boss, but to take the high road I decided to inform him over whatsapp first followed by an email of my resignation letter and then handing over the actual copy to him when he's in office. Now the headache arises because I believe he's trying to stall me, I will be out of office for a work assignment next week and he isn't in for the rest of the week. I am tempted to CC HR in my email with my letter however he has explicitly told me over text that it should be send to him first before HR comes into the picture.

Will this pose a problem in my effective date, if HR did not receive this email?

Admittedly I have gotten into this worrisome issue because I have overpromised my new company on a too optimistic start date. doh.gif
kirakun
post Nov 7 2019, 03:43 PM

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QUOTE(mflayer158 @ Nov 7 2019, 03:15 PM)
Thanks CareerSifu for the reply.

A small update to my previous questions. My new employer HR has confirmed over email that I have passed my medical check up and an on-boarding process will start.

Now comes the angry ex  sweat.gif , I don't get along well with my boss, but to take the high road I decided to inform him over whatsapp first followed by an email of my resignation letter and then handing over the actual copy to him when he's in office. Now the headache arises because I believe he's trying to stall me, I will be out of office for a work assignment next week and he isn't in for the rest of the week. I am tempted to CC HR in my email with my letter however he has explicitly told me over text that it should be send to him first before HR comes into the picture.

Will this pose a problem in my effective date, if HR did not receive this email?

Admittedly I have gotten into this worrisome issue because I have overpromised my new company on a too optimistic start date.  doh.gif
*
If this is a one way exit, u can just ignore all the pleasantry and go ahead with the email on your resignation and cc to HR. The company have no right to reject your resignation anyway. However like i said, with such approach, the bridge may be burned for good if your coming ex boss is the boss of the company. Your call.
CareerSifu
post Nov 7 2019, 10:05 PM

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QUOTE(mflayer158 @ Nov 7 2019, 03:15 PM)
Thanks CareerSifu for the reply.

A small update to my previous questions. My new employer HR has confirmed over email that I have passed my medical check up and an on-boarding process will start.

Now comes the angry ex  sweat.gif , I don't get along well with my boss, but to take the high road I decided to inform him over whatsapp first followed by an email of my resignation letter and then handing over the actual copy to him when he's in office. Now the headache arises because I believe he's trying to stall me, I will be out of office for a work assignment next week and he isn't in for the rest of the week. I am tempted to CC HR in my email with my letter however he has explicitly told me over text that it should be send to him first before HR comes into the picture.

Will this pose a problem in my effective date, if HR did not receive this email?

Admittedly I have gotten into this worrisome issue because I have overpromised my new company on a too optimistic start date.  doh.gif
*
That's fine, always tough to strike a fine balance between not pissing off your ex-employer (from whom you probably would need to contact again sometime in the future for references) and wanting to demonstrate your enthusiasm about the new role to your new employer.

What you are doing - informing your boss before an official letter - is fair and smart.

In response to his text about keeping HR out of it, you can gently affirm again that you are 100% committed to ensuring that a smooth and responsible handover, but that you will be emailing him your official letter of resignation shortly (keeping HR out for now). And in exchange for keeping HR out of things (for now at least), your resignation takes effect from the date indicated in this letter and email. What matters here is that the letter of resignation has the correct date in it (which better be soon now that you've committed to a start date and you have your letter of offer already).

Why a scanned letter of resignation embedded in an email is your perfect solution is that no one can tear it up in dramatic fashion, and it is already dated for when you need to ultimately forward it to HR for them to issue an acceptance of resignation and start calculating your leave balance / final pay.

Bosses freaking out and feeling betrayed or wanting to guilt you into staying is all part of the fun of resigning I guess. Again, never worth it to piss anyone off. Reassure him of your handover plan and that you are open to be contacted after leaving in case anyone has any questions so he can start making the necessary arrangements. You never want to burn that bridge, but you won't be intimidated or bullied either into thinking you can't leave if he doesn't acknowledge reality.




ipohmali70
post Nov 9 2019, 11:44 PM

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QUOTE(kirakun @ Sep 11 2019, 12:00 PM)
1. Is your salary range below 5k? If it is then you are covered under the employment act. U can drop a call to labor department to seek advice on the salary in lieu of notice. Anything above 5k will be at the discretion of the company's hr and management of which most likely will include all the fixed allowances as salary in lieu of notice.

2. Best is to seek your HR for exact calculation on balance of leaves to offset your notice.
*
Under Employment Act, the limit is 2k, not 5k.
mflayer158 P
post Nov 13 2019, 10:17 AM

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QUOTE(CareerSifu @ Nov 7 2019, 10:05 PM)
That's fine, always tough to strike a fine balance between not pissing off your ex-employer (from whom you probably would need to contact again sometime in the future for references) and wanting to demonstrate your enthusiasm about the new role to your new employer.

What you are doing - informing your boss before an official letter - is fair and smart.

In response to his text about keeping HR out of it, you can gently affirm again that you are 100% committed to ensuring that a smooth and responsible handover, but that you will be emailing him your official letter of resignation shortly (keeping HR out for now). And in exchange for keeping HR out of things (for now at least), your resignation takes effect from the date indicated in this letter and email. What matters here is that the letter of resignation has the correct date in it (which better be soon now that you've committed to a start date and you have your letter of offer already).

Why a scanned letter of resignation embedded in an email is your perfect solution is that no one can tear it up in dramatic fashion, and it is already dated for when you need to ultimately forward it to HR for them to issue an acceptance of resignation and start calculating your leave balance / final pay.

Bosses freaking out and feeling betrayed or wanting to guilt you into staying is all part of the fun of resigning I guess. Again, never worth it to piss anyone off. Reassure him of your handover plan and that you are open to be contacted after leaving in case anyone has any questions so he can start making the necessary arrangements. You never want to burn that bridge, but you won't be intimidated or bullied either into thinking you can't leave if he doesn't acknowledge reality.
*
Update: my resignation was forwarded to HR by my boss and my last day is confirmed through internal communication with HR. However my new employer HR would like to see the release letter as confirmation of my last day (26th Nov) and resignation. I have requested for my release letter from the HR PIC, however she refuses to send me a scanned copy citing that she is not the right person to hand me the letter (which is odd as HR should be the right person to handle these tasks). The letter has been passed to my GM who refuses to see me.

1. Can I serve my notice and leave without my release letter?
2. Will my new employer who has requested the release letter still have grounds to retract my offer (it is not stated in the contract but I was wondering if it could possible in a company policy) if I cannot produce the release letter?
CareerSifu
post Nov 13 2019, 02:59 PM

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QUOTE(mflayer158 @ Nov 13 2019, 10:17 AM)
Update: my resignation was forwarded to HR by my boss and my last day is confirmed through internal communication with HR. However my new employer HR would like to see the release letter as confirmation of my last day (26th Nov) and resignation. I have requested for my release letter from the HR PIC, however she refuses to send me a scanned copy citing that she is not the right person to hand me the letter (which is odd as HR should be the right person to handle these tasks). The letter has been passed to my GM who refuses to see me.

1. Can I serve my notice and leave without my release letter?
2. Will my new employer who has requested the release letter still have grounds to retract my offer (it is not stated in the contract but I was wondering if it could possible in a company policy) if I cannot produce the release letter?
*
1. Yes you absolutely can.

2. You might need to dig deeper into the new employer's motivations for seeing this release letter as that's not exactly standard industry practice (where usually employers give candidates the benefit of the doubt). Who is asking for it exactly - your future boss or HR? and why might that be?

And yes a resignation acceptance / release letter is something issued by HR, not your direct boss. Given your HR won't do it (presumably with instructions coming from the GM), is there anyone you can escalate this request to, eg. a HRD or another Senior Director or Assistant GM?

And I wouldn't push that hard if I were you honestly. You already have a final working day confirmed through internal communication - if it's an email, forward this email instead to the new employer to reassure them of your genuine intentions to leave this current company. If it helps, explain to your future boss the situation and the effort you have gone through to obtain the release letter, and the whole reluctant HR / missing GM game they are playing. Not in a bitter or negative tone of course, just state the facts. Often times, the new employer just needs to hear a story that makes sense to them, and they should be good to go. Again, remind your new boss about how excited you are to join, and what you can do in the meantime to prepare yourself better for the new role, etc.

No such thing as a company retracting an offer on the basis of a missing release letter. In a talent-scarce market like ours, that's plain stupid. But of course they can always retract on offer based on 'unsatisfactory passing of pre-hiring processes' - I assume here you cleared that before resigning.



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