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 BARF Diet, Bones And Raw Food Diet

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TSWhite Palace
post Nov 26 2008, 12:54 AM, updated 12y ago

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Bones And Raw Food Diet

As per title, besides what most pet owners normally providing their pets - Kibbles. There is another interesting diet for us to discover about - BARF.

Personally, I'd been feeding my dogs on BARF diet for quite some months already. At first, I was quite reluctant to switch from kibbles to BARF, just as any normal person, I thought that feeding BARF is a troublesome + expensive thing to do. BUT if you were to ask me to switch back to kibbles now, I would say NO!

BARF, also known as Biologically Appropriate Raw Food by Dr Ian Billinghurst - vet who originated the BARF (Evolutionary Nutrition) feeding program worldwide, is an interesting subject to wonder upon. We admire him a lot and gotten a bundle of books written by him to munch about. We share the books among our friends and puppy buyers, trying to find out the best we can provide our dogs.

Well, through out the readings, we do noticed that BARF is not as simple as we imagine. BUT if we are willing to study more and research hard, we will actually able to make our pets healthier, and we do learn a lot on why feeding BARF will makes our pets better off. None of us are nutritionist or experts but we hope that through reading the books from the professionals, we would be able to provide the best for our pets.

Let's put aside the very much details and allow me to express what I'm able to observe as a normal owner. What are the differences after switching from kibbles to BARF.

1) The amount of poo is much lesser, as in very much lesser! Some of you guys might know, I do own quite a substantial amount of dogs. It is a disaster for us to clean up their big pile of poo poo many times a day! After feeding BARF diet, it is incredible. The poo poo size is much smalleer, very less smell, also they only poo once a day! I do believe that this is very much due to the enzymes in raw diets. Enzymes is an agent to help dissolves and digests the food and nutritions. During processing, heating and packaging to last for long shelf life, most enzymes in most kibbles are lost. Which means that if we are feeding diet losing the enzymes, what enters the stomach will only FILL the stomach, then most of the food will come out as poo poo! But when feeding BARF, the food and nutrients dissolved and digested appropriately, hence very litttle remaindings will come out as poo poo, also our pets will get healthier since the nutrients are better digested.

2) Water consumption lower, lesser wee wee. Unlike kibbles which are very dry and dogs will always thirsthy and need to drink a substantial amount of water, which makes them wee wee very frequently, BARF diets basically are not heated nor dried, hence the liquid remains. Eating do not make them thirsty, they will drink as needed.

3) Skin and coat and overall health being improved. We can see a very big different comparing our dogs when they are fed with kibbles and after they are fed with BARF for some time. We do brought back dogs with poor health condition and see obvious improvements. We are also glad to see by providing a suitable diet, our pets skin and coat is actually getting better, inside out!

The purpose of me opening up this thread is to share, i'm happy and satisfied with BARF and wish to share more. I'm not an expert but I do hope to share some of my experience and I believe that there must be many of you guys here are able to share some valuable knowledge with me too! Let's learn together.

But remember, a BARF diet has to be a "COMPLETE" one if we want our pets to be better off. For instance, let say you are feeding only RAW Meat but not with the bones, you will face problem. It is not a simple subject but it is interesting while we learn more! So, if you want something better for your pets, do study hard and drop by here frequently to enganged in our discussion.

Let's just ends here for the first post, and we shall share together for many posts to come.

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This post has been edited by White Palace: Jul 10 2010, 12:46 PM
blessedfin
post Nov 26 2008, 02:02 AM

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GOOD explanation Yang.. smile.gif
i am planning to BARF Maggie too..
but i need to do some research first..it's not easy to feed BARF though :0
need to count the nutrition balance in the intake..

vincent_ng86
post Nov 26 2008, 02:07 AM

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What are the normal raw food that you gave?
Pennywise
post Nov 26 2008, 07:36 AM

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Finally, my wish has been granted!! But how do I go about the first transition to BARF? Where should I start?

Where is doraemon11?!?!
edwinlcw
post Nov 26 2008, 08:58 AM

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Hi.. i'm also thinking to start with barf... but where should i start??
any guide?
blessedfin
post Nov 26 2008, 10:50 PM

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check this out
http://www.barfworld.com/html/barf_diet/barfdiet.shtml

and this one...
smile.gif
http://www.njboxers.com/faqs.htm

This post has been edited by blessedfin: Nov 26 2008, 10:57 PM
TAGreptiles
post Nov 27 2008, 03:29 AM

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hi guys, you guys can check out the facebook group Pet Epicure or PM aliciahorsley on this forums to find out more bout BARF. She's an expert. smile.gif
Doraemon11
post Nov 27 2008, 10:58 AM

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Penny i'm here....

Actually i always totaly swift my bebe diet on any new try.. as she can reli torelate and no plbm on it..
So dnt ned so "mafan" lor... as barf i oso just give her.

for the recipe there're reli alot alot... google search and u sure will find it!
http://www.healthyrecipesforpets.com/dog_f...ize%20dog).html
http://www.holdinggold.com/barfrecipes.htm
etc...........

Tis site pulak provide alot of barf info:
http://www.barfworld.com/



YANG, SHARE YOUR RECIPE HERE.... notworthy.gif
I know u must said, "so far is Ying handle de"
Oh pls, ask Ying provide u lor.... laugh.gif

This post has been edited by Doraemon11: Nov 27 2008, 11:13 AM
aureliux
post Nov 27 2008, 01:52 PM

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My Winter have been eating BARF for the past 6 month.. Loves the result and Winter loves her food!!

@Vincent - I usually gives chicken, lamb, beef, buffalo, duck and pork (so she wont gets bored)

@pennywise - Some dog might think you are crazy to feed them raw meat (at least my mom's dog and my doberman does...) this is wat i do to introduce them to raw diet. 1st cook to meat to half cook and gradually lessen the amount of cook meat... Now my Winter and Diamond are eating chicken neck and wing as snacks.. hehe
Doraemon11
post Nov 27 2008, 02:38 PM

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Is the chicken neck healty not?
Since they do hormone injection to chicken tru their neck wor...... hmm.gif

I giving neck now... but heard someone said so.. now worrying! sweat.gif
Pennywise
post Nov 27 2008, 02:58 PM

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aureliux,
Ok, they might not eat la if given raw. I know what you mean. I am gonna give it a go this weekend and see what's the response like.

doraemon11,
Aiyohhhh... so many links I read liao but I need someone to write to me where to start.

OK, anggap I go Jusco and buy some chicken... should I start with wing? Do I need to wash when I come home? Wash with plain water or salt? Then need to dry it? Or put some warm water to soften and make ti warm or cold cold like that let them eat?

Sorry ya, you know la, guys dont know much about kitchen and masak masak, know how to makan only. Hahahaha... Do advise. Or drop me a line on my MSN. smile.gif
Doraemon11
post Nov 27 2008, 03:47 PM

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Do u think hypermarket meat fresh enough bou??

OK.. i'll buy the meat(chicken breast + neck/wing) and various of vegie and sweet potatoe frm pasar (where ever la, up to u tongue.gif), once reach home, dnt wait, fast fast process it, clean everythg with diamond water (hehehe smile.gif ) chop and mix everthg as short time as possible. Coz wana maintain the meat to be fresh ma. Divide my dog 1 meal 1 portion into a separate small plastic bag. Keep in freezer at least 2-3 days, tis to assume the bacterial level get low.

Feed time, take out 1 bag = 1 meal to naturally defrost about 1hrs-30min (depend on how much portion la,, bebe portion reli little nia).
Sometime i rush... soft alrd even stil cold oso i direct feed her tongue.gif

Hey, remember to add some apple cider vinegar.. tis could kill bacteria de.
Penny can u get me?

This post has been edited by Doraemon11: Nov 27 2008, 04:45 PM
aureliux
post Nov 27 2008, 06:08 PM

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This is wat we do also.. as soon as we reach home, we grind the meat and pack them using ziplock bags. 1 bag per meal to preserve the quality of the meat.. I just defrost them and add in vege and her supplements.. then she will eat happily... Easier then feeding kibbles (i need to beg her to eat ler)
dongdong86
post Nov 27 2008, 06:18 PM

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hey friends, i am selling BARF, and send around Klang Valley area. if interested please pm me!
shayne
post Nov 27 2008, 06:56 PM

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i wan to share my Barf feeding experience here. I have a toy poodle name Ice. her bad breath was gone after 2 weeks of Barf feeding. her poo become lesser and less smelly too. Ice was having sensitive stomach and poor digestive system during her kibbles' time, but now, she is very healthy and guess wat, her skin & coat condition become better too.

i started with a bit bit of vege mixed with kibbles, then slowly add in some raw chicken breast meat with kibbles & vege. after 2 weeks, i just change her food to a total BARF - drumstick with bones+egg+a bit bit of vege+supplement powder. my Ice seems to adapt very well with her new diet and now, i hav bought her more variety of meat, she is having chicken, beef & lamb on rotating.

to share 1 of my very simple Barf menu for 1 meal:-

chicken - grinded with bones
a small slices of beef tenderloin
1 baby carrot
a bit bit of alfafa sprout
apple slice 1 cm
1 spoon of natural yogurt
egg
+supplement


Pennywise
post Nov 27 2008, 10:27 PM

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QUOTE(Doraemon11 @ Nov 27 2008, 03:47 PM)
Do u think hypermarket meat fresh enough bou??

OK.. i'll buy the meat(chicken breast + neck/wing) and various of vegie and sweet potatoe frm pasar (where ever la, up to u tongue.gif), once reach home, dnt wait, fast fast process it, clean everythg with diamond water (hehehe smile.gif ) chop and mix everthg as short time as possible. Coz wana maintain the meat to be fresh ma. Divide my dog 1 meal 1 portion into a separate small plastic bag. Keep in freezer at least 2-3 days, tis to assume the bacterial level get low.

Feed time, take out 1 bag = 1 meal to naturally defrost about 1hrs-30min (depend on how much portion la,, bebe portion reli little nia).
Sometime i rush... soft alrd even stil cold oso i direct feed her tongue.gif

Hey, remember to add some apple cider vinegar.. tis could kill bacteria de.
Penny can u get me?
*
Doraemon11,
Yes, I know hypermarket meat not so fresh but I think they are cleaner than those pasar pagi wans where people just dip their chicken / meat into a rectangular box of water mix blood. Then throw it on the wooden board for display and fly attacks before being sold.

Various vege ok but are there any types of vege I should avoid? Which vege is not suitable for dogs? Do dogs like vege? Did you top it up with any liquid supplement to overwrite the vege taste?

Divide 1 dog 1 meal portion into things like Ziplock bag ok. Does that also mean that the first day you buy the chicken back, cannot feed straight, need to freeze for 2 - 3 days before feeding? Also, the expiry date on the packed chicken / minced meat / etc is usually 3 - max 4 days, if freezed 3 days, wouldnt it mean that it will be closer expiring?

How much chicken / meat / beef / lamb do you stock up? Otherwise, need to go supermarket everyday, right?


QUOTE(aureliux @ Nov 27 2008, 06:08 PM)
This is wat we do also.. as soon as we reach home, we grind the meat and pack them using ziplock bags. 1 bag per meal to preserve the quality of the meat.. I just defrost them and add in vege and her supplements.. then she will eat happily... Easier then feeding kibbles (i need to beg her to eat ler)
*
Ok, cool but once you feed BARF, can turn back to okibbles or not? Or they will never like kibbles anymore?

QUOTE(shayne @ Nov 27 2008, 06:56 PM)
i wan to share my Barf feeding experience here. I have a toy poodle name Ice. her bad breath was gone after 2 weeks of Barf feeding. her poo become lesser and less smelly too. Ice was having sensitive stomach and poor digestive system during her kibbles' time, but now, she is very healthy and guess wat, her skin & coat condition become better too.

i started with a bit bit of vege mixed with kibbles, then slowly add in some raw chicken breast meat with kibbles & vege. after 2 weeks, i just change her food to a total BARF - drumstick with bones+egg+a bit bit of vege+supplement powder. my Ice seems to adapt very well with her new diet and now, i hav bought her more variety of meat, she is having chicken, beef & lamb on rotating.

to share 1 of my very simple Barf menu for 1 meal:-

chicken - grinded with bones
a small slices of beef tenderloin
1 baby carrot
a bit bit of alfafa sprout
apple slice 1 cm
1 spoon of natural yogurt
egg
+supplement
*
Thanks for your post shayne. One big question: How did you prepare the egg? Fried or raw as well? Or boiled, perhaps?
Did you freeze your chicken meat before feeding to kill of the bacterias? Otherwise, how did you kill bacterias? Did you boiled them?
When you feed it drumstick + bones, what happened to the bones?
How much chicken / meat / beef / lamb do you stock up? Otherwise, need to go supermarket everyday, right?
shayne
post Nov 27 2008, 10:59 PM

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QUOTE(Pennywise @ Nov 27 2008, 10:27 PM)
Doraemon11,
Yes, I know hypermarket meat not so fresh but I think they are cleaner than those pasar pagi wans where people just dip their chicken / meat into a rectangular box of water mix blood. Then throw it on the wooden board for display and fly attacks before being sold.

Various vege ok but are there any types of vege I should avoid? Which vege is not suitable for dogs? Do dogs like vege? Did you top it up with any liquid supplement to overwrite the vege taste?

Divide 1 dog 1 meal portion into things like Ziplock bag ok. Does that also mean that the first day you buy the chicken back, cannot feed straight, need to freeze for 2 - 3 days before feeding? Also, the expiry date on the packed chicken / minced meat / etc is usually 3 - max 4 days, if freezed 3 days, wouldnt it mean that it will be closer expiring?

How much chicken / meat / beef / lamb do you stock up? Otherwise, need to go supermarket everyday, right?
Ok, cool but once you feed BARF, can turn back to okibbles or not? Or they will never like kibbles anymore?
Thanks for your post shayne. One big question: How did you prepare the egg? Fried or raw as well? Or boiled, perhaps?
Did you freeze your chicken meat before feeding to kill of the bacterias? Otherwise, how did you kill bacterias? Did you boiled them?
When you feed it drumstick + bones, what happened to the bones?
How much chicken / meat / beef / lamb do you stock up? Otherwise, need to go supermarket everyday, right?
*
there r sum vege/fruit u shld take note 1:-
1. dun feed too many cabbage family vege(like brocolli, cauliflower, cabbage), coz all these cruciferous vege can give the dogs gas and depress thyroid function if overfed - this mean they will laosai
2. also need to limit the nightshade family(eggplant, tomatoes, peppers, potatoes) coz they can aggravate inflammatory condition.
3. cannot feed onion caused it'll interfere with red blood cell production - will caused anemia
4. grapes & raisin – toxin to dogs & cats, develop kidney failure
5. raw potatoes - must peeled skin or i usually boiled it 1st - coz the "eye" can be poisonous

i normally use yogurt & egg to soak the vege 1st so tat my dog will eat, if not she will choose out all the vege, but now, they(Yang&Ying) r suggesting me to blend the vege with food processor as this will not too burden their digestive system. talk bout egg, i use half-boiled/raw whole egg.

as for my groceries, i normally buy 1 chicken, 1 pack of beef/lamb(i normally buy from cold storage) and can use for bout 2 weeks+. well, we hav a grinder at FLUFF, so we grind all the meat & bones together. if u dun hav a grinder, u can just chop them into smaller pieces, but actually they can just eat the drumstick with bones(of coz, this will be very messy lor) but sumtimes, we do let our dog chew and tear the whole chicken wing, loves to see them enjoy their meaty bones.

pls never feed ur dog cooked bones. of coz, after we buy back the meat, u shld just wash it 1st then after we pack the meat into daily portion, we just freeze it in the freezer and can start serve it tomolo morning. the frozen meat can tahan for months, as long as u practice a good kitchen hygiene.

This post has been edited by shayne: Nov 27 2008, 11:00 PM
Pennywise
post Nov 27 2008, 11:17 PM

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Shayne,

Thanks for your reply. Can you give me 5 types of vege that is safe to feed my dogs?
Doraemon11
post Nov 27 2008, 11:18 PM

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Normally i wil prepare for 1 week meal.. i worry the nutrition will reduce if keep too long in freezer.
Nowaday my barf were finish.. no time too market, so by this moment i feed back bebe fully kibble...heheh.. she got no pblm wit it.

I'll blend all raw vegie + raw whole egg wit shell. Sweet Potatoe was the only cooked ingredient i use. Boiled it and mashed it..
60% - grinded meat wit bone
20% - mix vegie pureen
20% - boiled sweet potatoe
+ fish oil
+ apple cider vinegar

When feeding add in suplement powder as how shayne do lor..

babymiki
post Nov 28 2008, 02:21 AM

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reis you are self preparing it now?

How to know how big portion of the barf to give to your dog?

Planning to feed barf soon also...
aureliux
post Nov 28 2008, 09:32 AM

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They will look for kibbles once in awhile... My Winter's treat are sometimes kibbles.. hehe... She seems to miss the kibbles taste sometimes.. According to 1 of the books we read, meat can actually store indefinite, but the taste and texture do reduce in time. I usually prepare her foor up to 3-4 weeks in advance due to i need to grind the whole chicken..
shayne
post Nov 28 2008, 11:47 AM

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QUOTE(Pennywise @ Nov 27 2008, 11:17 PM)
Shayne,

Thanks for your reply. Can you give me 5 types of vege that is safe to feed my dogs?
*
i normally feed:-

1. carrot
2. cucumber
3. sawi, kailan, bayam - any green leaf vege la...
4. asparagus - i like coz easy to prepare
5. alfafa sprout - very good coz it contains almost all the nutrients, can buy from any super/hypermarket
6. pumpkin - cannot feed too much but once a while is good for their digestive
7. seaweed - not the japanese instant 1 ya
8. celery - hehe... i dun eat celery, but she eat, so ma let her eat lor...tongue.gif
9. green bean - i mash it
Pennywise
post Nov 28 2008, 11:49 AM

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Ok, so I dont think there is a problem with them reverting back to kibble. Just in case I malas to prepare BARF cause it seems complicated to me.

I read somewhere, we're not supposed to feed BARF and kibbles together, is it true?
Doraemon11
post Nov 28 2008, 02:37 PM

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QUOTE(babymiki @ Nov 28 2008, 02:21 AM)
reis you are self preparing it now?

How to know how big portion of the barf to give to your dog?

Planning to feed barf soon also...
*
Ya.. i try to preparing myself...
the portion is base on 2-4% of ur dog weight lor..

I thk u had been planning for long long time alrd.. hmm.gif
iluv2zzz
post Nov 28 2008, 03:41 PM

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QUOTE(Pennywise @ Nov 28 2008, 11:49 AM)
Ok, so I dont think there is a problem with them reverting back to kibble. Just in case I malas to prepare BARF cause it seems complicated to me.

I read somewhere, we're not supposed to feed BARF and kibbles together, is it true?
*
Perhaps you will need to give kibbles now and then, and not after they on pure BARF for few months, then they may not adapt it.
Yes, cannot put raw and kibbles together because the digestive rate for raw food is different.


Added on November 28, 2008, 3:42 pm
QUOTE(babymiki @ Nov 28 2008, 02:21 AM)
reis you are self preparing it now?

How to know how big portion of the barf to give to your dog?

Planning to feed barf soon also...
*
The standard recommendation is 2-4% of the body weight. However, small dog have higher metabolism, that is why higher percentage is preferred.

This post has been edited by iluv2zzz: Nov 28 2008, 03:42 PM
Doraemon11
post Nov 28 2008, 06:23 PM

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i feel doubt is chicken neck healthy or safety to feed bou??
Since mostly those ppl wit do hormone injection to the chicken tru the chicken neck ler...!!!
joeycheong23
post Nov 28 2008, 07:43 PM

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sounds good,
but still confused here,

wonder my jj can anot.
he's only around 6-8 months.
still a pup.
can feed BARF alrd?
shayne
post Nov 28 2008, 08:18 PM

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QUOTE(Doraemon11 @ Nov 28 2008, 06:23 PM)
i feel doubt is chicken neck healthy or safety to feed bou??
Since mostly those ppl wit do hormone injection to the chicken tru the chicken neck ler...!!!
*
u outdated la... now they put hormone in their food, no more injection... tongue.gif

QUOTE(joeycheong23 @ Nov 28 2008, 07:43 PM)
sounds good,
but still confused here,

wonder my jj can anot.
he's only around 6-8 months.
still a pup.
can feed BARF alrd?
*
Yang's maltese puppies started to eat barf since 2 months old.
joeycheong23
post Nov 28 2008, 09:02 PM

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alright,
maybe will try,
but my sister ask me,
those chicken or vege no bacteria one?
i mean,
after wash also still got right?

anyone mind sharing a simple recipe?
wana let my jj try smile.gif
shayne
post Nov 28 2008, 09:18 PM

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QUOTE(joeycheong23 @ Nov 28 2008, 09:02 PM)
alright,
maybe will try,
but my sister ask me,
those chicken or vege no bacteria one?
i mean,
after wash also still got right?

anyone mind sharing a simple recipe?
wana let my jj try smile.gif
*
after wash of coz the bacteria still there but the main point here is, after u freeze it, all the bacteria will "sleep" and dog's stomach is ph1, they can tolerate raw meat as long as u prepare it in a clean way.
i did share a simple menu at pg 1, go check it out.
joeycheong23
post Nov 29 2008, 02:08 AM

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QUOTE(shayne @ Nov 28 2008, 09:18 PM)
after wash of coz the bacteria still there but the main point here is, after u freeze it, all the bacteria will "sleep" and dog's stomach is ph1, they can tolerate raw meat as long as u prepare it in a clean way.
i did share a simple menu at pg 1, go check it out.
*
will check out!
thanks! notworthy.gif
iluv2zzz
post Nov 29 2008, 02:40 AM

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QUOTE(Doraemon11 @ Nov 28 2008, 06:23 PM)
i feel doubt is chicken neck healthy or safety to feed bou??
Since mostly those ppl wit do hormone injection to the chicken tru the chicken neck ler...!!!
*
Get organic chicken XD or kampung chicken tongue.gif


Added on November 29, 2008, 2:42 am
QUOTE(shayne @ Nov 28 2008, 09:18 PM)
after wash of coz the bacteria still there but the main point here is, after u freeze it, all the bacteria will "sleep" and dog's stomach is ph1, they can tolerate raw meat as long as u prepare it in a clean way.
i did share a simple menu at pg 1, go check it out.
*
Not sleeping forever.. it just stops their activity, and they will wakes when you take them out of fridge, when defrosting or thawing them.

This post has been edited by iluv2zzz: Nov 29 2008, 02:42 AM
babymina
post Nov 29 2008, 10:15 AM

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This is interesting biggrin.gif
aureliux
post Nov 29 2008, 11:50 AM

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QUOTE(babymina @ Nov 29 2008, 10:15 AM)
This is interesting biggrin.gif
*
I think after you feed your dog BARF, you wouldnt want to switch back to kibbles coz you will be so pleased with the result!! About bacteria, if dog can easily get sick and die from bacteria from raw meat, then Bandaraya will be very happy and please coz they will be no stray dogs! Dog stomach is very very acidic and very different from ours. They can even digest bones. Actually my dogs have been eating raw even after i buy it straight from hypermarket.
dongdong86
post Nov 29 2008, 12:46 PM

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yup most of us will not switch back to kibbles unless no time to prepare it! my dog always has soft stool problems but after feeding BARF totally no soft stool!

i have seen strays eating rotten meat before, now they are still alive, so no worry about our fresh BARF!
babymiki
post Nov 29 2008, 10:51 PM

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how much is a grinder ?
dongdong86
post Nov 30 2008, 01:30 AM

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for industrial one should be more than thousand.
babymiki
post Nov 30 2008, 01:31 AM

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lol for household usage?

grinder that is able to grind bones as well
dongdong86
post Nov 30 2008, 01:35 AM

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QUOTE(babymiki @ Nov 30 2008, 01:31 AM)
lol for household usage?

grinder that is able to grind bones as well
*
user posted image
i meants this type haha....yes for restaurants use will be about thousands.

houeshold one i m not sure. but i doubt normal one can grind bones.
babymiki
post Nov 30 2008, 01:37 AM

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haha those i guess would be big in size
iluv2zzz
post Nov 30 2008, 01:52 AM

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bones, other then for the calcium, phosphorus and minerals and other nutrients.. its actually to exercise its jaw and clean the teeth.

If you guys grind everything, then they mah no nid bite? xD
babymiki
post Nov 30 2008, 02:02 AM

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oh that means bone is for biting one la isit? and not ground together with the vege etc etc?
iluv2zzz
post Nov 30 2008, 02:31 AM

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Haha.. got many version wor.. some just mix together because easier... some prefer let their dog bite it (and will be messier). Some grind everything... and some other people just give the meat with bone together. Perhaps it will be better to grind it for main meal, and give him a bone for bite bite once a week?

FYI I do not feed BARF, but I research and reads a lot over the months already. Would love to share to know more smile.gif
babymiki
post Nov 30 2008, 02:35 AM

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thats why there's so many options and varities..im kinda confused
aureliux
post Nov 30 2008, 11:20 AM

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I think when your dog bites ond chew their toys, they actually exercise their jaws as well. The main reason i give my girl then whole chicken wing once or twice a week coz it will clean their teeth.. My feeding method is to grind everything coz that will ensure them to eat a more balance diet. And a chicken wing will cleans her teeth and she kinda like to toy with it....

BTW, they really do have a lots of contradicting ideas on all the book we have read but i notice that the difference is also due the different regions on earth..

This post has been edited by aureliux: Nov 30 2008, 11:22 AM
dongdong86
post Dec 1 2008, 02:21 AM

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QUOTE(babymiki @ Nov 30 2008, 01:37 AM)
haha those i guess would be big in size
*
for few kg of meat is ok. but i think it is time consuming to do it myself if it is a small breed dog and dont eat much. i think economy of scale is applicable here. smile.gif
QUOTE(iluv2zzz @ Nov 30 2008, 01:52 AM)
bones, other then for the calcium, phosphorus and minerals and other nutrients.. its actually to exercise its jaw and clean the teeth.

If you guys grind everything, then they mah no nid bite? xD
*
some may choke themself. some may be too hungry to swallow the whole drumstick. grinding is easier for digestion also. but it is advisable to give raw bone once per week.

if no grinding, they will choose meat and leave vege there. grinding mix them together. apple cider vinegar also will spread evenly in meat, helping kill some bacteria.

Doraemon11
post Dec 1 2008, 05:01 PM

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QUOTE(shayne @ Nov 28 2008, 08:18 PM)
u outdated la... now they put hormone in their food, no more injection...  tongue.gif
Yang's maltese puppies started to eat barf since 2 months old.
*
Fren, r u sure all are now no longer use injection in market?? Totaly only food feeding with hormone????



QUOTE(iluv2zzz @ Nov 29 2008, 02:40 AM)
Get organic chicken XD or kampung chicken  tongue.gif


Added on November 29, 2008, 2:42 am
Not sleeping forever.. it just stops their activity, and they will wakes when you take them out of fridge, when defrosting or thawing them.
*
Good ideal thumbup.gif
Organic telur i know la, how/where to get organic chicken ar?????? shakehead.gif
iluv2zzz
post Dec 1 2008, 06:12 PM

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pasar pagi got.. hypermart dun have meh? Those usually sell in whole chicken.
dongdong86
post Dec 1 2008, 07:55 PM

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aiyo, Malaysian poultry market is hopeless sometime, all hormone all that. even human also has to suffer from it.
Pennywise
post Dec 1 2008, 09:24 PM

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Failed to try BARF meal last weekend...
dongdong86
post Dec 2 2008, 01:15 AM

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why fail? your dog cant take it?
TSWhite Palace
post Dec 2 2008, 09:01 AM

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NOTE:

NOT ALL FATS ARE CREATED EQUAL

Fat is either saturated or polyunsaturated and your dog needs both. Together these fats supply the essential fatty acids (EFAs) necessary to maintain a dog's good health. Saturated fat comes from animal sources; Polysaturated fat comes from vegetable sources.

Not enough animal fat in the diet can create:

Lack of energy
Heart problems
Growth deficits
Dry skin
Cell damage

Lack of polyunsaturated fat can cause:

Coarse dry hair coat
Improper growth
Skin lesions on belly, inside the back legs, and between the shoulder blades
Thickened areas of skin
Horny skin growths
Skin ulcerations and infections
Poor blood clotting
Extreme itching and scratching

Some owners do remove the fat from the meat source, but I would say that's a big NO cause these animal fats are important for your pet! Dogs do not suffer from heart disease caused by higher levels of animal fat, or from fatty deposits in blood vessels. However, moderation is the key.

I would suggests owners to grab a bottle of safflower oil to adds into the diet. Safflower oil is one of the least allergic oil and it contains Vitamin E (At least the bottle I gotten has it) which helps to preserve the diet naturally besides providing polyunsaturated fat.

Reference: Holistic Guide for a Healthy Dog, 2nd edition, by Wendy Volhard and Kerry Brown, D.V.M.
Doraemon11
post Dec 2 2008, 01:14 PM

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yang.. heard shayne said fluff got grinder..
can grind bone as well de???
How much it cost???
or can come to fluff do grind our meat+bone there ar??? brows.gif
How u charge for the service? wink.gif
whizzkid
post Dec 2 2008, 04:28 PM

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how about cat? how to prepare BARF for my ktten?
shayne
post Dec 2 2008, 06:23 PM

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QUOTE(Pennywise @ Dec 1 2008, 09:24 PM)
Failed to try BARF meal last weekend...
*
wat do u mean by fail? mind to share?
aureliux
post Dec 2 2008, 08:14 PM

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For cat, the diet will be abit different and more similiar to ferret's diet. You will need only 5% of vege in their diet.
Pennywise
post Dec 2 2008, 09:43 PM

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Sorry, failed as in no time to prepare. LoL... Sorry for the late update. Will definitely find time to try them.


Added on December 3, 2008, 12:00 amOne newbie question - how do you prepare the egg? Dont tell me give raw???

This post has been edited by Pennywise: Dec 3 2008, 12:00 AM
dongdong86
post Dec 3 2008, 03:39 AM

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yes give raw, no cooking. but egg white is not advisable to give raw as it will cause thiamine deficiency.
Doraemon11
post Dec 3 2008, 10:44 AM

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egg???
i 1 whole biji throw in the blender with raw vegie all blend together till puree de wor...
shayne
post Dec 3 2008, 11:35 AM

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egg can be feed in raw but from wat i studied, we shld feed the whole egg, means egg white + egg yolk, not advisable to only feed white or only yolk. some books say not good to feed egg white coz it will prevent dog from absorbing biotin, a Vitamin B, but not if u feed them together with the yolks. or u can also soft boiled it and leave the yolk runny like hald boiled egg.
whizzkid
post Dec 3 2008, 02:30 PM

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Failed to feed my kittens...huahua

they seem don't like neither raw or boiled meat. kuang3x

This post has been edited by whizzkid: Dec 3 2008, 02:32 PM
dongdong86
post Dec 3 2008, 04:13 PM

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cats are fussy, if they dont like they wont eat untill they die....


Added on December 4, 2008, 1:09 ami am gonna send BARF to customer tomorrow, anyone interested please PM me. Thanks.

This post has been edited by dongdong86: Dec 4 2008, 01:09 AM
hamster9
post Dec 4 2008, 10:18 AM

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QUOTE(shayne @ Dec 3 2008, 11:35 AM)
egg can be feed in raw but from wat i studied, we shld feed the whole egg, means egg white + egg yolk, not advisable to only feed white or only yolk. some books say not good to feed egg white coz it will prevent dog from absorbing biotin, a Vitamin B, but not if u feed them together with the yolks. or u can also soft boiled it and leave the yolk runny like hald boiled egg.
*
i throw in the egg and the shell together blend tongue.gif

my 2 monkeys (dogs actually) love it. thumbup.gif
Pennywise
post Dec 4 2008, 11:01 AM

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hamster9,
Mind telling blend with what?
hamster9
post Dec 4 2008, 11:18 AM

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QUOTE(Pennywise @ Dec 4 2008, 11:01 AM)
hamster9,
Mind telling blend with what?
*
egg with shell, vegetable (broccoli, carrots, long beans, spinach and sometimes catnip plant) yoghurt, rolled oats.

meat, chicken neck

they are allergic to lamb. i tried lamb, and they start scratching mad sweat.gif
TSWhite Palace
post Dec 5 2008, 02:17 AM

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Updated the 1st post, just incase you guys didnt notice.

For those who plan to introduce BARF, please do remember that we are doing it for the good of our pets. So, we must make sure that we learn continuously and keep improving the diet. Failing to provide a balanced and quality BARF will ends up with troubles, too!

So, we either make sure that we do loads of readings and research and make sure our pets getting a complete, balance BARF, else selecting the best kibbles and supplement it with the right supplements might do a better job than "not so complete BARF".

This post has been edited by White Palace: Dec 5 2008, 02:18 AM
dongdong86
post Dec 5 2008, 02:54 AM

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yes i agree with White Palace. Nutritions are very important since we want our pet the best. All the high end kibbles are balanced in nutrition so if you want your BARF to be superior than any kibbles please do more research on it.

For my BARF, Else than Meat, bones, vege and fruits, vitamins, minerals, garlic powder, sea weed powder, palm oil, home made yogurt and etc are added in BARF so to "back up" any deficient nutrition and to improve health of pets.

Anyhow, i still think BARF is better than any kibbles even if some nutritions may be deficient.


Added on December 5, 2008, 3:14 amuser posted image

picture of 600g BARF.

This post has been edited by dongdong86: Dec 5 2008, 03:14 AM
TSWhite Palace
post Dec 6 2008, 03:38 AM

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Anyone starts feeding BARF already? Please share your experience here. smile.gif
Doraemon11
post Dec 6 2008, 10:47 AM

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Anyone can share the list of the suplement u add into ur barf???
iluv2zzz
post Dec 7 2008, 10:58 PM

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Just a note for those who is adding eggs into blender and blend..

Make sure your egg do not have the red word printings.. remove that red part before blend them. Best of course is kampung eggs tongue.gif

And, if your dog is small, its best to blend the eggshell into powdery form, because bigger piece might choke the dog. Do the shell first then add in other vege.
dongdong86
post Dec 7 2008, 11:08 PM

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do throw away egg white also.
PangurBan
post Dec 8 2008, 08:19 AM

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Can anyone recommend an affordable meat grinder that will do bones as well?

Doraemon11
post Dec 8 2008, 01:33 PM

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QUOTE(PangurBan @ Dec 8 2008, 08:19 AM)
Can anyone recommend an affordable meat grinder that will do bones as well?
*
ask yang, fluff got..
planning to get 1 frm him too
dongdong86
post Dec 8 2008, 02:12 PM

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It cost about 1 thousand. some smaller ones can only grind chicken keel. if got 5 thousands or more, then can only grind bigger bone one.
PangurBan
post Dec 8 2008, 02:30 PM

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QUOTE(dongdong86 @ Dec 8 2008, 02:12 PM)
It cost about 1 thousand. some smaller ones can only grind chicken keel. if got 5 thousands or more, then can only grind bigger bone one.
*
aiyo so expensive
leekenneth39
post Dec 10 2008, 09:23 AM

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how about mixing the food raw + kibbles ?
aureliux
post Dec 10 2008, 09:50 AM

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That is not advisable as digesting raw and kibbles are very different...
leekenneth39
post Dec 10 2008, 09:57 AM

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QUOTE(aureliux @ Dec 10 2008, 09:50 AM)
That is not advisable as digesting raw and kibbles are very different...
*
that is what i read in everywhere in the net world but it work good. im abit confuse so asking see if anyone do this.

aureliux
post Dec 10 2008, 10:21 AM

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You can use the method when your dog do not accept the raw but try to change it gradually to raw. You can feed 1 meal raw 1 meal kibbles., but try not to mix it in 1 meal. But after you seen the result of BARF, i dont think you want to go back to kibbles...
leekenneth39
post Dec 10 2008, 10:29 AM

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QUOTE(aureliux @ Dec 10 2008, 10:21 AM)
You can use the method when your dog do not accept the raw but try to change it gradually to raw. You can feed 1 meal raw 1 meal kibbles., but try not to mix it in 1 meal. But after you seen the result of BARF, i dont think you want to go back to kibbles...
*
I understand, i tried before going to barf but problem is with the vege's they dont like it.
my way feeding is a little portion of kibbles and raw chicken both meal day and night.
By this way i already see improvement i bet going to total raw should be better but still a problem is just chicken without veges, fruits right ?
aureliux
post Dec 10 2008, 10:46 AM

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My girl also dont like vege but i uses a food processor to blend the vege into a paste.. mixing with grinded meat.. its impossible to pick it out and they will have to eat!! Wahahah!! 1 one my fren actually mix it with eggs or yogurt to coax her doggie to eat.
leekenneth39
post Dec 10 2008, 11:14 AM

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[quote=aureliux,Dec 10 2008, 10:46 AM]
My girl also dont like vege but i uses a food processor to blend the vege into a paste.. mixing with grinded meat.. its impossible to pick it out and they will have to eat!! Wahahah!! 1 one my fren actually mix it with eggs or yogurt to coax her doggie to eat.
*

[/quo

bleng the vege is ok la but if grind the meat and bone means they cant chew it right ?
may i know what vege u give them ? i find that the smell after vege is blende is really bad


Added on December 10, 2008, 11:16 am[quote=aureliux,Dec 10 2008, 10:46 AM]
My girl also dont like vege but i uses a food processor to blend the vege into a paste.. mixing with grinded meat.. its impossible to pick it out and they will have to eat!! Wahahah!! 1 one my fren actually mix it with eggs or yogurt to coax her doggie to eat.
*

[/quote]


what breed is your dog ah ?

This post has been edited by leekenneth39: Dec 10 2008, 11:16 AM
crazymouse_yyh
post Dec 10 2008, 05:47 PM

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Blending veggie does give off a weird smell but it can be covered up with yogurt and the juices from meat.

My dogs are eating BARF diet from Pet Epicure now, it's mixed with lots of different stuff. But sometimes I do my own, minus the grounded bones coz I got no grinder, so i give whole bones like chicken soft bones, necks and carcass.

The veggies and a bit of fruit I used goes like this:
Green peas
carrot
pumpkin
cucumber
apple
spinach
broccoli
sawi
bell pepper

everything in small bits only, all in a food processor until a puree and I freeze it into ice cubes. Everyday at dinner time I just defrost one ice cube of veggie puree and mix with the meat and offal for my dogs.

My dogs lick everything clean. I also supplement with fish oil and kelp meal.


Added on December 10, 2008, 5:55 pm
QUOTE(leekenneth39 @ Dec 10 2008, 10:29 AM)
I understand, i tried before going to barf but problem is with the vege's they dont like it.
my way feeding is a little portion of kibbles and raw chicken both meal day and night.
By this way i already see improvement i bet going to total raw should be better but still a problem is just chicken without veges, fruits right ?
*
It is best not to mix raw food with processed kibbles. I mentioned it before somewhere here about what happens to the stomach when kibbles and raw are eaten at the same time.

Chicken as a very neutral smell.... so your dog may want something with a stronger smell. No dog of mine have ever turned away from raw food.

Try putting a few different kind of meats together, along with liver. The veggie puree, just give a bit like a teaspoon and mix with some yogurt.

Read here about Barf and kibbles
http://www.querycat.com/faq/b8f66cfc112490c3fa61a6d53b693dbd

This post has been edited by crazymouse_yyh: Dec 10 2008, 05:55 PM
Doraemon11
post Dec 10 2008, 06:17 PM

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I have a super-tiny toy poodle, she's bout 2months+ and less den 500gram..
Can i start feed her BARF now onward???
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post Dec 10 2008, 06:41 PM

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QUOTE(Doraemon11 @ Dec 10 2008, 06:17 PM)
I have a super-tiny toy poodle, she's bout 2months+ and less den 500gram..
Can i start feed her BARF now onward???
*
Yes you can. I read that a breeder overseas feed puppies BARF when they are 3.5 weeks old. Anyway, I'm also feeding my puppy with Barf but in small portions now. My adult is taking mostly BARF with kibbles once a while.

Read this
http://www.ukbarfclub.co.uk/barf-success-s...ies-on-barf.php
aureliux
post Dec 10 2008, 06:55 PM

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Can
dongdong86
post Dec 10 2008, 07:27 PM

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my dog also start BARF from 2 month old
Doraemon11
post Dec 10 2008, 09:04 PM

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Thanks all for reply... icon_rolleyes.gif

As i found out some of u.. prepare and keep the meat and vegie pureen separetely.. When time to feed only mix up both.
But for myself will mix up everythg when preparing, meat and vegie, then divide to 1 meal portion for each bag and store in freezer.
Is that any different for the both method above??
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post Dec 10 2008, 09:11 PM

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QUOTE(Doraemon11 @ Dec 10 2008, 09:04 PM)
Thanks all for reply... icon_rolleyes.gif

As i found out some of u.. prepare and keep the meat and vegie pureen separetely.. When time to feed only mix up both.
But for myself will mix up everythg when preparing, meat and vegie, then divide to 1 meal portion for each bag and store in freezer.
Is that any different for the both method above??
*
Is up to you I guess. When I buy the prepacked BARF, everything including the veggie and fruits is inside already. If I do myself, I separate coz I make too much veggie puree for my stock of meat.
leekenneth39
post Dec 10 2008, 09:30 PM

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2month old no teeth how to chew on it ?


Added on December 10, 2008, 9:32 pmyou buy those all grind and blend ? i read barf have to give in chunck so for them to exercise the jaw and clear from tar tar correct ?

This post has been edited by leekenneth39: Dec 10 2008, 09:32 PM
crazymouse_yyh
post Dec 10 2008, 09:32 PM

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2 month old no teeth? For a human baby yes but a puppy would already have it's teeth all out already. Of course it is not the adult teeth but they got pretty sharp baby teeth.
leekenneth39
post Dec 10 2008, 09:33 PM

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QUOTE(crazymouse_yyh @ Dec 10 2008, 09:32 PM)
2 month old no teeth? For a human baby yes but a puppy would already have it's teeth all out already. Of course it is not the adult teeth but they got pretty sharp baby teeth.
*
but not strong to chew the bones right ?
crazymouse_yyh
post Dec 10 2008, 09:35 PM

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Well, for puppies we normally give soft bones like there is a soft bone where the chicken breast is. Then winglets or chicken neck, just for them to nibble. They won't really chew and swallow everything now coz still learning. Most of their bone intake would be from the grounded bones in the BARF food.
leekenneth39
post Dec 10 2008, 09:36 PM

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QUOTE(crazymouse_yyh @ Dec 10 2008, 09:35 PM)
Well, for puppies we normally give soft bones like there is a soft bone where the chicken breast is. Then winglets or chicken neck, just for them to nibble. They won't really chew and swallow everything now coz still learning. Most of their bone intake would be from the grounded bones in the BARF food.
*
it is nice to learn here biggrin.gif
dongdong86
post Dec 11 2008, 03:31 AM

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QUOTE(leekenneth39 @ Dec 10 2008, 09:30 PM)
2month old no teeth how to chew on it ?


Added on December 10, 2008, 9:32 pmyou buy those all grind and blend ? i read barf have to give in chunck so for them to exercise the jaw and clear from tar tar correct ?
*
i give mine frozen as it is hard and can exercise its jaws. Now i give pork bone, but seems that it is hard to bite even for my super chewer Jack Russell...
iluv2zzz
post Dec 11 2008, 05:38 PM

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Just a note for those who want to start BARF,

Make sure you have the knowledge on BARF feeding. Some people might say if you are scare that you can't give a complete balance meal, just buy the pre-packed one. Before you BLINDLY buy them, ask them for the ingredient PRECISELY and the proportion of them. Our BARF market in Malaysia is still not well developed. Not like the other country, where they have this company preparing BARF with all the nutrition tested.

Main concern, source of the meat. If it is chicken, ask them what kind of chicken, pasar chicken or carrefour chicken. Ask them, rib, thigh, drumstick or what? If offals added, is it beef/lamb/chicken/pork? Grounded meat and bone. How many % of meat? How many % of bone? Vegetables added, specific what is the vegetables, and how much was added? Supplement added, and what supplement is that? Named it to the details. But I can rest assure you, they won't be telling you 100% because its their "Secret Recipe". And please be aware that your dogs on BARF need a rotation of food. Sticking to one recipe won't do your dog good. Go for more variety for more balance vitamin and minerals.

Be aware of some bad traders adding in cheapo meat and sell at higher price. I don't know if there is any at the current market, but please be aware. Do not risk your dogs' life.

Best of BARF, learn and do it yourself, so you get to see how it is prepared, the hygiene, and confident about what goes into your dogs' stomach. Learn about supplements, and how much to be added. Over dose will do no good.

I am not against anybody here, just voice out my opinion.
Doraemon11
post Dec 11 2008, 05:48 PM

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So wat the perfect ratio for meat vs bone ar???

This post has been edited by Doraemon11: Dec 11 2008, 05:49 PM
iluv2zzz
post Dec 11 2008, 07:41 PM

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I'm not a nutritionist, so I can't tell how much is perfect. Even then, a lot professionals saying different things. I am just stressing that you need to know what you are feeding, not risking your dog's life. Know what goes into your dog's stomach. Perhaps we should ask their opinion regarding how much meat n bone is the "perfect" combination.

Furthermore, each type of meat contain different amount of calcium n phosphorus, hence the amount of bone needed is different too.

This post has been edited by iluv2zzz: Dec 11 2008, 07:41 PM
Doraemon11
post Dec 11 2008, 08:06 PM

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Anyone can help out to provide any info with perfect ratio for meat vs bone in BARF ??
crazymouse_yyh
post Dec 11 2008, 09:12 PM

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From what I follow, Meaty bones is normally 60 to 80% of the diet, and meaty means the bones with 50% meat and 50% bones on them. Feeding meat alone without bones is not so good coz phosphorus level.... the bones is a source of calcium. Another diet ppl follow is the prey diet, which is 80% meat and meaty organs, 10% bones and 10% offal.

Glad I know what goes in and the quality of the products in the raw food I get, but yah, we must give variety, so rotating different sorts of meats, bones, offal is a must to gain proper nutrition.
dongdong86
post Dec 11 2008, 11:01 PM

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QUOTE(iluv2zzz @ Dec 11 2008, 05:38 PM)
Just a note for those who want to start BARF,

Make sure you have the knowledge on BARF feeding. Some people might say if you are scare that you can't give a complete balance meal, just buy the pre-packed one. Before you BLINDLY buy them, ask them for the ingredient PRECISELY and the proportion of them. Our BARF market in Malaysia is still not well developed. Not like the other country, where they have this company preparing BARF with all the nutrition tested.

Main concern, source of the meat. If it is chicken, ask them what kind of chicken, pasar chicken or carrefour chicken. Ask them, rib, thigh, drumstick or what? If offals added, is it beef/lamb/chicken/pork? Grounded meat and bone. How many % of meat? How many % of bone? Vegetables added, specific what is the vegetables, and how much was added? Supplement added, and what supplement is that? Named it to the details. But I can rest assure you, they won't be telling you 100% because its their "Secret Recipe". And please be aware that your dogs on BARF need a rotation of food. Sticking to one recipe won't do your dog good. Go for more variety for more balance vitamin and minerals.

Be aware of some bad traders adding in cheapo meat and sell at higher price. I don't know if there is any at the current market, but please be aware. Do not risk your dogs' life.

Best of BARF, learn and do it yourself, so you get to see how it is prepared, the hygiene, and confident about what goes into your dogs' stomach. Learn about supplements, and how much to be added. Over dose will do no good.

I am not against anybody here, just voice out my opinion.
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GOOD POINTS!!!

This should be one of my considerations when i do BARF. Well, i can make sure 99% customer satisfaction. As in now, our BARF main meat is chicken keel which is very meaty and less bones, it is very expensive also. We want to start adding fish oil even it sounds silly, at least from business view point, but we want the best for your pets smile.gif

Lets the quality prove the games. cool2.gif


Added on December 11, 2008, 11:08 pmWe are also looking for large amount of wild boar supply, as it is "wilder" then normal farm chicken, less artificial thingy in the meat, safer for pets. Other than that, other meat such as lamb and beef are also available.


Added on December 11, 2008, 11:35 pmI dont mind sharing some method of judging quality of a commercialized BARF.

1) De-freeze it, then see how many water coming out. For little amount of water, it maybe fruit or vege juice, apple cider vinegar and blood. If a lot of water come out, there may be water added in BARF. Water is FREE substitute to expensive meat.

2) De-freeze it, try to smell whether got rotten or weird smell or not. Rotten smell means it is not fresh. But do differentiate well between meat smell and rotten smell, especially chicken, sometime chicken smell may be disgusting.

3) See by your eyes, you can see vege, meat, bones, oil in it. The color of it should be fresh red but not dark red. Dark red means too much CHEAP liver added.

4) Your dog will know everything. Dogs like fresh meat but not rotten one, pure BARF without water, right portion of meat:vege:fruits. if you are feeding cats, good. Some cats dont like BARF at all, but most cats dont like cheap BARF!

5) A nutritious BARF will make your dog more active, fur more shiny. But you need a strong observation for it.


Else than Tails Unlimited in Sungai Long and Pet Epicure in Taman Melawati, any pet shops else selling BARF also? Have to mention this two are both pet rescuers which have done their social responsible parts. smile.gif

This post has been edited by dongdong86: Dec 11 2008, 11:35 PM
Doraemon11
post Dec 12 2008, 12:02 AM

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QUOTE(crazymouse_yyh @ Dec 11 2008, 09:12 PM)
From what I follow, Meaty bones is normally 60 to 80% of the diet, and meaty means the bones with 50% meat and 50% bones on them. Feeding meat alone without bones is not so good coz phosphorus level.... the bones is a source of calcium. Another diet ppl follow is the prey diet, which is 80% meat and meaty organs, 10% bones and 10% offal.

Glad I know what goes in and the quality of the products in the raw food I get, but yah, we must give variety, so rotating different sorts of meats, bones, offal is a must to gain proper nutrition.
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QUOTE(dongdong86 @ Dec 11 2008, 11:01 PM)
GOOD POINTS!!!

This should be one of my considerations when i do BARF. Well, i can make sure 99% customer satisfaction. As in now, our BARF main meat is chicken keel which is very meaty and less bones, it is very expensive also. We want to start adding fish oil even it sounds silly, at least from business view point, but we want the best for your pets smile.gif

Lets the quality prove the games.  cool2.gif


Added on December 11, 2008, 11:08 pmWe are also looking for large amount of wild boar supply, as it is "wilder" then normal farm chicken, less artificial thingy in the meat, safer for pets. Other than that, other meat such as lamb and beef are also available.


Added on December 11, 2008, 11:35 pmI dont mind sharing some method of judging quality of a commercialized BARF.

1) De-freeze it, then see how many water coming out. For little amount of water, it maybe fruit or vege juice, apple cider vinegar and blood. If a lot of water come out, there may be water added in BARF. Water is FREE substitute to expensive meat.

2) De-freeze it, try to smell whether got rotten or weird smell or not. Rotten smell means it is not fresh. But do differentiate well between meat smell and rotten smell, especially chicken, sometime chicken smell may be disgusting.

3) See by your eyes, you can see vege, meat, bones, oil in it. The color of it should be fresh red but not dark red. Dark red means too much CHEAP liver added.

4) Your dog will know everything. Dogs like fresh meat but not rotten one, pure BARF without water, right portion of meat:vege:fruits. if you are feeding cats, good. Some cats dont like BARF at all, but most cats dont like cheap BARF!

5) A nutritious BARF will make your dog more active, fur more shiny. But you need a strong observation for it.
Else than Tails Unlimited in Sungai Long and Pet Epicure in Taman Melawati, any pet shops else selling BARF also? Have to mention this two are both pet rescuers which have done their social responsible parts. smile.gif
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Thanks for sharing..... rclxms.gif
Much much appreciated..... notworthy.gif
iluv2zzz
post Dec 12 2008, 03:32 AM

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LOL, if I were to buy BARF, I would prefer no supplement added, so I will just add myself. For example, fish oil, don't see the need to freeze the fish oil along with the meat. Furthermore, most of the supplement is best to be added right before meal.

QUOTE
our BARF main meat is chicken keel which is very meaty and less bones


So there is the concern. does the bones in this one is enough? For the meat:bone ratio. Like Crazymouse said earlier, some recommend 50:50 for meat:bone, and some say 80% meat 10% bone 10% offals. It would be best if this commercialized BARF would tell their proportion and why is it so, and not the other way round smile.gif It would be more convincing that way smile.gif

I would not feed my dog with the mix without proper research smile.gif

By the way we should discuss how is the proper BARF should be, so we all can learn and at the same time judging the commercialized BARF. To buy or to prepare our own is individual choice smile.gif

This post has been edited by iluv2zzz: Dec 12 2008, 03:33 AM
dongdong86
post Dec 12 2008, 03:51 AM

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QUOTE(Doraemon11 @ Dec 12 2008, 12:02 AM)
Thanks for sharing..... rclxms.gif
Much much appreciated.....  notworthy.gif
*
thanks biggrin.gif
QUOTE(iluv2zzz @ Dec 12 2008, 03:32 AM)
LOL, if I were to buy BARF, I would prefer no supplement added, so I will just add myself. For example, fish oil, don't see the need to freeze the fish oil along with the meat. Furthermore, most of the supplement is best to be added right before meal.
So there is the concern. does the bones in this one is enough? For the meat:bone ratio. Like Crazymouse said earlier, some recommend 50:50 for meat:bone, and some say 80% meat 10% bone 10% offals. It would be best if this commercialized BARF would tell their proportion and why is it so, and not the other way round smile.gif It would be more convincing that way smile.gif

I would not feed my dog with the mix without proper research smile.gif

By the way we should discuss how is the proper BARF should be, so we all can learn and at the same time judging the commercialized BARF. To buy or to prepare our own is individual choice smile.gif
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Some customers want readily made, we want to do like this also, but seems troublesome for customers.

Oh i forgot to mention we add bones which are softer in the BARF also like rib bones. so the grinder can grind it and mix with meats. From Dr.B, he suggested 60% for meat only, which i think chicken keel is enough for this 60% of meat, then some bones, vege, fruits which consist 40% of the weight.

Actually you can put some cheap things in BARF, then you do experiments mentioned above, you will understand. erm...i think iluv2zzz know this!

Yup, for some ppl busy working, we provide them convenience. For ppl in suburban with little budget but extra time, I will still encourage them to DIY, summore i can provide simple recipes of BARF. Sharing is caring mah wink.gif
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post Dec 12 2008, 02:35 PM

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QUOTE(iluv2zzz @ Dec 12 2008, 03:32 AM)
LOL, if I were to buy BARF, I would prefer no supplement added, so I will just add myself. For example, fish oil, don't see the need to freeze the fish oil along with the meat. Furthermore, most of the supplement is best to be added right before meal.

well said, it's not freezing for freezing sake, it is more of a convenience. some people, incl. myself, may forget to add the supplement if packed separately.

So there is the concern. does the bones in this one is enough? For the meat:bone ratio. Like Crazymouse said earlier, some recommend 50:50 for meat:bone, and some say 80% meat 10% bone 10% offals. It would be best if this commercialized BARF would tell their proportion and why is it so, and not the other way round smile.gif It would be more convincing that way smile.gif

as far as i know, i buy from TU and their proportion is 60% raw meaty bones. if the bones are not meaty, they will use 60% bones, extra 20% meat. i think this is very close to the recommended proportion by Dr Billinghurst. so far, no complaints from my dogs. when the meat thaws, it is not soggy.

btw, plse explain commercialized Barf; i think anyone who makes barf for sale, or for that matter anything for sale, is commercialized. it's whether the code of ethics is observed and whether the bottom line is purely profit first or the animals' welfare first.

i have a suggestion for u. why not walk in to King's Confectionery or any famous food chain such as Big Apple, etc. and ask them for their ingredients and the exact proportion they use. better still, go to KFC and ask them what they put in to fry their chicken to make it so tasty. let us know the response u get.


I would not feed my dog with the mix without proper research smile.gif

neither would I.

By the way we should discuss how is the proper BARF should be, so we all can learn and at the same time judging the commercialized BARF. To buy or to prepare our own is individual choice smile.gif
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iluv2zzz
post Dec 12 2008, 03:00 PM

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That's why I said they won't be telling you the recipe smile.gif But for your dog's sake, you have the right to ask what is inside. Like the main thing, how much bone and how much meat. What vegetables and supplement added. Ain't that is basic thing a customer should know?

However this is stretching too far away promoting the people selling BARF. Yes, commercialized barf is whoever making it and sell it. I am not against anybody who is doing that, nor I say any BARF sold out there is not at proper amount, as I did not try them before. I just ask the customer to be aware. Get more info and do not buy BLINDLY. There might be some people taking the opportunity selling cheap BARF!! But I don't mean that they aren't good one out there.
TSWhite Palace
post Dec 13 2008, 01:30 AM

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Normally what I do is to get the whole chicken and grind everything in. Once a while I will give my dogs some chicken necks or wings or legs to chew on.

As for the other ingredients, certain ingredients we use it consistently and many we rotates.

A sample recipe for this batch of BARF we did:

The proportions are according to Doctor Ian Billinghurst's formula and the decision made on which ingredients to choose from is based on our group readings and discussions.

I'm striving hard to educates people regarding BARF diets but at the same time learning whatever I yet to know of. So, please acknowledge if there is any suggestion.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


I do agree that it would be good to give dog owners a choice to get the grinded meat + bones only and let them mix in the rest since some dogs might be allergic to certain ingredients and some owners might prefers to get things done on their own, PROVIDED we make sure they are well educated regarding BARF.

BUT on the other hand, for owners who only own 1 or 2 toy breeds, it might be too costly to get all the other ingredients and supplements, the dog might not be able to finish them before they even expired! Also, some owners might not border to do research before preparing the meals, or thought that missing out certain ingredients is alright and leads to problems which totally forfeit the purpose of feeding BARF diets.

dongdong, I disagree that darker red = use too much liver. My 1st batch of BARF is dark color and liver % is not high, it is due to the apple we place in and apples arent cheap. icon_rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by White Palace: Dec 13 2008, 01:42 AM
iluv2zzz
post Dec 13 2008, 03:08 AM

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LOL I once tried to freeze apple alone, and it works well staying in the original colour... but when I take out, in a while only it turns black LOL... so I obmited apples in the meal, and give them freshly peal as treats tongue.gif
TSWhite Palace
post Dec 13 2008, 04:02 AM

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That's why you see I rotates the fruits tongue.gif Pros + Cons lor~ The purpose we use Apple for the 1st batch is because we need some moisture to grind the veges nicely but we do not want to mix water. So we use one of our fruit selection ---> apple. Well, it turns up well and I do not mind the darker color coz all our dogs love it very much! It is an amazing experience feeding BARF. I felt sorry to my dogs coz I fed them kibbles for quite some time. I love to see their "THIS IS WAT I CALL FOOD!!!" expression when feeding them BARF. laugh.gif
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post Dec 13 2008, 02:25 PM

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[quote=White Palace,Dec 13 2008, 01:30 AM]
Normally what I do is to get the whole chicken and grind everything in. Once a while I will give my dogs some chicken necks or wings or legs to chew on.

You give your dog eat chicken wing neat not afraid the bone cucuk his tummy meh?

iluv2zzz
post Dec 13 2008, 05:08 PM

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QUOTE(White Palace @ Dec 13 2008, 04:02 AM)
That's why you see I rotates the fruits tongue.gif Pros + Cons lor~ The purpose we use Apple for the 1st batch is because we need some moisture to grind the veges nicely but we do not want to mix water. So we use one of our fruit selection ---> apple. Well, it turns up well and I do not mind the darker color coz all our dogs love it very much! It is an amazing experience feeding BARF. I felt sorry to my dogs coz I fed them kibbles for quite some time. I love to see their "THIS IS WAT I CALL FOOD!!!" expression when feeding them BARF. laugh.gif
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I also find difficulties when blending greens. But I don't care lah, just blend no matter how difficult, when they are mashed, it will auto have the moisture to "run" in the blender. Perhaps you can blend in cucumber since cucumber contain more water.

I have read somewhere not to feed fruits together with vege, I forget where and why already. It says its best to feed fruits at least an hour before or after the main meal. But because of the apple incident, I took away all fruits from the diet, and just add as treat, since I no longer giving commercial treat. *well, trying to finish my last bit of commercial treat though*

I make mix fruits puree (sherbet) as treat tongue.gif
TSWhite Palace
post Dec 13 2008, 08:54 PM

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QUOTE(PangurBan @ Dec 13 2008, 02:25 PM)
You give your dog eat chicken wing neat not afraid the bone cucuk his tummy meh?
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If you are feeding cooked bones, then you need to be very worry cause it makes the bones sharp.

But if you are feeding raw bones, your dog can chew it nicely and your dog's stomach is much more acidic than human's, bones are no problem for them to dissolves at all.

But of corse, no matter what we are feeding or treating our dogs, we must always keep an eye on them. Some dogs love to swallow everything without chewing, this type of dog no matter you are feeding raw or kibbles or giving them chew toys, must keep an eye.
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post Dec 14 2008, 10:19 AM

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*well, trying to finish my last bit of commercial treat though*

You're best off tossing it all into the bin. I once came home from one of those dog events at Bandar Utama with bags and bags of those treats (give-aways and prizes). They were so chemical-laden I gave them all away. Should've binned 'em actually.

This post has been edited by PangurBan: Dec 14 2008, 10:20 AM
adreina
post Dec 14 2008, 02:46 PM

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Is that feed BARF is much more cheaper than kibbles?
iluv2zzz
post Dec 14 2008, 07:23 PM

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QUOTE(PangurBan @ Dec 14 2008, 10:19 AM)
*well, trying to finish my last bit of commercial treat though*

You're best off tossing it all into the bin.  I once came home from one of those dog events at Bandar Utama with bags and bags of those treats (give-aways and prizes).  They were so chemical-laden I gave them all away.  Should've binned 'em actually.
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Yes you are right they (the commercial treat) should be in the bin. But for some reason I'm keeping it. You may ask why, but then this is more to personal reason. If you insist to know, just pm me, as I see no point telling in this BARF thread.

And regarding the freebies from the events, I do not toss them into the bin, but I gave it to some dog owners who feeding tablescraps, rubbish and also to the dogs that wander around mamak. There are still many dogs that are not eating properly. A not so good kibbles is still anyhow better then leftovers.


Added on December 14, 2008, 7:27 pm
QUOTE(adreina @ Dec 14 2008, 02:46 PM)
Is that feed BARF is much more cheaper than kibbles?
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It may, or may not cheaper then kibbles tongue.gif If you are feeding normal meats, it may be cheaper.

But I know some that are feeding expensive imported meats, aussie beef, nz mutton, kangaroo, venison, crocodile meat this and that that I have never tasted before too! And if you go on with organic, it is even more to a bomb smile.gif

This post has been edited by iluv2zzz: Dec 14 2008, 07:37 PM
dongdong86
post Dec 14 2008, 09:03 PM

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White Palace,

My dark red refers to dark until a bit greyish. I know apple will make it a bit dark, but actually there is a way to prevent it, try to search on some information.

adreina,

If you want quality, sure it is expensive. high quality meat, bones, vege, fruits, supplements all are not cheap. If you give cheaper alternatives like chicken neck, carcass all those cheap but not so good part, it may be cheaper.

But in long term, you will find it cheap because your dog is more healthy, thus reduce vet expenses. This is one of the reason why most vet dont recommend BARF as they will not have so many business. They recommend Hill's. Summore, you dog live longer.
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post Dec 14 2008, 09:50 PM

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*Yes you are right they (the commercial treat) should be in the bin. But for some reason I'm keeping it. You may ask why, but then this is more to personal reason. If you insist to know, just pm me, as I see no point telling in this BARF thread.*

No need. I'm not on a BARF crusade or an anti-commercial dog food crusade biggrin.gif. Anyway, I don't feed my dog 100% BARF. Sometimes I'll cook her a beef stew or a pilaf with millet and amaranth and all sorts of things in it, and I bake her treats with liver and stuff in it. I avoid the commercial stuff for the same reason I avoid putting processed food into my own stomach. But loads of people pump that stuff into their bodies and loads of people feed their dogs only processed food. Such is life.
dongdong86
post Dec 14 2008, 10:01 PM

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I am pursuing a life like yours, but it needs $$$
iluv2zzz
post Dec 15 2008, 01:00 AM

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QUOTE(PangurBan @ Dec 14 2008, 09:50 PM)
*Yes you are right they (the commercial treat) should be in the bin. But for some reason I'm keeping it. You may ask why, but then this is more to personal reason. If you insist to know, just pm me, as I see no point telling in this BARF thread.*

No need.  I'm not on a BARF crusade or an anti-commercial dog food crusade biggrin.gif.  Anyway, I don't feed my dog 100% BARF.  Sometimes I'll cook her a beef stew or a pilaf with millet and amaranth and all sorts of things in it, and I bake her treats with liver and stuff in it.  I avoid the commercial stuff for the same reason I avoid putting processed food into my own stomach.  But loads of people pump that stuff into their bodies and loads of people feed their dogs only processed food.  Such is life.
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FYI I don't do BARF tongue.gif I do HCF (homecook food) but I came across a lot BARF when I doing my research. So I am just sharing with what I know. Generally most ingredient in BARF and HCF are similar. The major different is the preparation, proportion, and the bone tongue.gif

Perhaps we should have another proper thread for HCF includes all the treat baking recipe. Planning to bake some this week.

Alright, back to BARF. other then Dr.B that dongdong and yang said, what about Pitcairn? Anybody have a copy of Dr.Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Natural Health for dogs n cats?

http://www.drpitcairn.com/books/pitcairn_book.html

This post has been edited by iluv2zzz: Dec 15 2008, 01:02 AM
PangurBan
post Dec 15 2008, 01:11 AM

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QUOTE(dongdong86 @ Dec 14 2008, 10:01 PM)
I am pursuing a life like yours, but it needs $$$
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Not very much more really, if not less. It's a whole lifestyle - I opt out of the consumer culture as much as possible. (that's the equivalent of processed food I think) and save some money there. As I think you have suggested in an earlier post in this thread with reference to dogs, you might pay more for good quality fresh produce, but in the long run, you save on medical bills AND more importantly, you (or your dog) are happy and healthy. At least, that's the ideal situation. Real life of course, is more complicated than that. As far as feeding my dog BARF and home-cooked food is concerned, I think I'm only spending marginally more than if I were to get her good quality kibble. But no money can buy the satisfaction you get from seeing your dog chomp with relish on the food you've prepared for her.
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post Dec 15 2008, 01:56 AM

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I agree! I feel so happy when my gals licks her bowl clean on her HCF.

This post has been edited by iluv2zzz: Dec 15 2008, 01:56 AM
dongdong86
post Dec 15 2008, 03:29 AM

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QUOTE(iluv2zzz @ Dec 15 2008, 01:00 AM)
FYI I don't do BARF  tongue.gif  I do HCF (homecook food) but I came across a lot BARF when I doing my research. So I am just sharing with what I know. Generally most ingredient in BARF and HCF are similar. The major different is the preparation, proportion, and the bone tongue.gif

Perhaps we should have another proper thread for HCF includes all the treat baking recipe. Planning to bake some this week.

Alright, back to BARF. other then Dr.B that dongdong and yang said, what about Pitcairn? Anybody have a copy of Dr.Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Natural Health for dogs n cats?

http://www.drpitcairn.com/books/pitcairn_book.html
*
Nice book, thanks for you information. But in here i cant find this book. But in MPH there is a book briefly introduce BARF and a lot of critics on kibbles and can foods. Wanted to buy it for my reference. almost same with this Pitcairn book. this book also introduce homeopathic which i believe deeply. It is much better than any vets' pills. summore lesser or no side effect. We have this book, actually any dog have health problems, you can ask me. perhaps i open Homeopathic thread while you open HCF thread tongue.gif

FYI, you may really try BARF for some periods, you will see very significant effect compared with HCF, as my friend tried on her dog before, also a silky. My friend at first dont believe in raw food but she gave it few weeks to try. after that the effect impressed her. but she still did not believe sashimi but char keow teow, so she steam it. But no matter how good char keow teow is, still sashimi is the best, because skin and health problem came again. Then no choice she turn back to raw BARF, till now, her silky lives healthy and active.


Added on December 15, 2008, 3:32 am
QUOTE(PangurBan @ Dec 15 2008, 01:11 AM)
Not very much more really, if not less.  It's a whole lifestyle - I opt out of the consumer culture as much as possible.  (that's the equivalent of processed food I think) and save some money there.  As I think you have suggested in an earlier post in this thread with reference to dogs, you might pay more for good quality fresh produce, but in the long run, you save on medical bills AND more importantly, you (or your dog) are happy and healthy.  At least, that's the ideal situation.  Real life of course, is more complicated than that.  As far as feeding my dog BARF and home-cooked food is concerned,  I think I'm only spending marginally more than if I were to get her good quality kibble.  But no money can buy the satisfaction you get from seeing your dog chomp with relish on the food you've prepared for her.
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I strongly agree with what you said, it makes sense mate.
Now i would really try to throw materialistic behind and start concerning more on health, self-improvement and pet welfare.

This post has been edited by dongdong86: Dec 15 2008, 03:32 AM
iluv2zzz
post Dec 15 2008, 05:57 AM

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QUOTE(dongdong86 @ Dec 15 2008, 03:29 AM)
Nice book, thanks for you information. But in here i cant find this book. But in MPH there is a book briefly introduce BARF and a lot of critics on kibbles and can foods. Wanted to buy it for my reference. almost same with this Pitcairn book. this book also introduce homeopathic which i believe deeply. It is much better than any vets' pills. summore lesser or no side effect. We have this book, actually any dog have health problems, you can ask me. perhaps i open Homeopathic thread while you open HCF thread tongue.gif

FYI, you may really try BARF for some periods, you will see very significant effect compared with HCF, as my friend tried on her dog before, also a silky. My friend at first dont believe in raw food but she gave it few weeks to try. after that the effect impressed her. but she still did not believe sashimi but char keow teow, so she steam it. But no matter how good char keow teow is, still sashimi is the best, because skin and health problem came again. Then no choice she turn back to raw BARF, till now, her silky lives healthy and active.


Added on December 15, 2008, 3:32 am
I strongly agree with what you said, it makes sense mate.
Now i would really try to throw materialistic behind and start concerning more on health, self-improvement and pet welfare.
*
@dongdong
FYI, my Sushi is not a silky =) And I do not BARF for a reason. No need post the reason here because I don't want to invite debate LOL...I know how BARF supporter stand on their feet as I read a lot. I don't need them to tell me BARF is better or what happy.gif But I also understand my choice =) However, this doesn't means I will not try in future. My concern is not the theory of BARF but its more towards the source we can get in Malaysia. And I like Sashimi but don't like Char Koay Teow... rclxm9.gif

May I know what is the title of the book you were saying?
dongdong86
post Dec 15 2008, 04:01 PM

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oh sorry, i thought you dog is silky. em...it is still your choice then, btw HCF or BARF are still better than any kibbles and can food. Well, for sources of meat, you can search for wild boar, and some imported meat.

I dont remember the book title, but you can try search in MPH, i think you can easily find it.

iluv2zzz
post Dec 15 2008, 04:11 PM

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You got the book right? Just do us a favour find the title for us since you recommend reading it happy.gif
PangurBan
post Dec 15 2008, 04:28 PM

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QUOTE(dongdong86 @ Dec 15 2008, 04:01 PM)
oh sorry, i thought you dog is silky. em...it is still your choice then, btw HCF or BARF are still better than any kibbles and can food. Well, for sources of meat, you can search for wild boar, and some imported meat.

I dont remember the book title, but you can try search in MPH, i think you can easily find it.
*
I get my beef from the pasar malam, the freshly slaughtered stuff. I avoid all the frozen stuff. Then the chicken I get from Central, OUG.
dongdong86
post Dec 15 2008, 07:45 PM

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QUOTE(iluv2zzz @ Dec 15 2008, 04:11 PM)
You got the book right? Just do us a favour find the title for us since you recommend reading it happy.gif
*
Sorry i mislead you, i didnt buy this as i dont really have that much money tongue.gif
i try search online in MPH also cant get it. another active member in puppy.com.my acsyen, also come this forum one, has a lot of BARF book, you may try look for this forumer.
QUOTE(PangurBan @ Dec 15 2008, 04:28 PM)
I get my beef from the pasar malam,  the freshly slaughtered stuff.  I avoid all the frozen stuff.  Then the chicken I get from Central, OUG.
*
thanks for the information mate. smile.gif
TSWhite Palace
post Dec 15 2008, 10:26 PM

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QUOTE(iluv2zzz @ Dec 15 2008, 01:00 AM)
FYI I don't do BARF  tongue.gif  I do HCF (homecook food) but I came across a lot BARF when I doing my research. So I am just sharing with what I know. Generally most ingredient in BARF and HCF are similar. The major different is the preparation, proportion, and the bone tongue.gif

Perhaps we should have another proper thread for HCF includes all the treat baking recipe. Planning to bake some this week.

Alright, back to BARF. other then Dr.B that dongdong and yang said, what about Pitcairn? Anybody have a copy of Dr.Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Natural Health for dogs n cats?

http://www.drpitcairn.com/books/pitcairn_book.html
*
Holistic Guide for a Healthy Dog, 2nd edition, by Wendy Volhard and Kerry Brown, D.V.M.

Actually I'm focusing more on this book, Dr B's book are "swallowed" more deeply by my frens. We sort of read different books and share the knowledge.

I would say the book i'm reading is a good choice as well cause it is not so one sided to feed BARF only, it also explains how to select the right kibbles and ways to supplement it properly.
iluv2zzz
post Dec 15 2008, 11:17 PM

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Do you mean "Holistic Guide for a Healthy Dog, 2nd edition, by Wendy Volhard and Kerry Brown, D.V.M." talks about kibbles and supplement too\?
TSWhite Palace
post Dec 16 2008, 12:18 AM

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I havent finish the whole book yet, but yap, it does talks about kibbles + supplements also explanations on ingredients.
dongdong86
post Dec 16 2008, 01:51 AM

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Will get the mentioned book in MPH, and we can share knowledge here.
leekenneth39
post Dec 16 2008, 10:14 AM

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is feeding barf is by grinding everything or feed in small piece for them to chew ?
Doraemon11
post Dec 16 2008, 02:07 PM

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If u having the big breed dog... u can give ur dog in pieces to chew... if ur dog is small/toy breed, better grind eveythg to feed.. but remember chop in big pieces and not small pieces, coz if too small size ur dog may just swallow it n tercekik lor..
Pennywise
post Dec 16 2008, 05:11 PM

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Aww man, I didnt notice this thread was growing so fast. I wanted to feed BARF but my main concern is that the diet might be inbalanced.

In a way, when we read the ingredients of a bag of dog kibbles, we noticed many other greens within and types of oil. I used to think about how much each kibble manufacturer make but when I think of all the ingredients placed inside, wonder how much it might cost. Despite the little amount of ingredients, its still better than nothing.

My dogs lick their bowl clean everyday, only some days they are moody and go on strike. I think if I feed BARF, there wont be any turning back. Now, I need to reconsider due to the factor I stated above.
dongdong86
post Dec 16 2008, 09:17 PM

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QUOTE(leekenneth39 @ Dec 16 2008, 10:14 AM)
is feeding barf is by grinding everything or feed in small piece for them to chew ?
*
Grinding everything in is to mix vege and fruits that some dog may dislike together, make them can be so picky. also to make it safe for your dog.
QUOTE(Pennywise @ Dec 16 2008, 05:11 PM)
Aww man, I didnt notice this thread was growing so fast. I wanted to feed BARF but my main concern is that the diet might be inbalanced.

In a way, when we read the ingredients of a bag of dog kibbles, we noticed many other greens within and types of oil. I used to think about how much each kibble manufacturer make but when I think of all the ingredients placed inside, wonder how much it might cost. Despite the little amount of ingredients, its still better than nothing.

My dogs lick their bowl clean everyday, only some days they are moody and go on strike. I think if I feed BARF, there wont be any turning back. Now, I need to reconsider due to the factor I stated above.
*
not that your dog wont want to eat kibbles, it is that yourself wont let you change back to kibbles.

For kibbles, you can imagine how good can the costs be. one kg chicken, RM6 lah i calculate. to make chicken meal, one kg will become 200g-300g. so for some premium dog food, chicken meal will be 50-75%, so per 1kg kibbles, costs of meat is about RM12-RM18. plus all the vege, fruits, potatoes, grains, supplements, can you imagine 1KG can be above RM20-RM25? lets say economic of scale, reduce cost to RM12-RM15, then plus export, distributors profit, pet shop profit, how come all premium one cost less than RM20 per KG? Oh i guess there are compromises among the process......



iluv2zzz
post Dec 16 2008, 09:22 PM

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LOL, they definately get cheaper them RM6 for the chicken. They need the whole farm for it. Whenever you get stuff for wholesales, its at least half of the price already. happy.gif
dongdong86
post Dec 16 2008, 11:17 PM

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maybe, but i am talking about Malaysia's cheap chicken, if Canada America, cant imagine how expensive will it be....make it RM5 also expensive already...


Added on December 17, 2008, 3:35 pmAnother question for discussion. I have a discussion with other forumer in other forum.

He own a GSD, should be around 30-40kg, he said he feed whole chicken only, everyday 2kg. So i calculate, if for active dog, 3% of weight is 900g-1200g, for mixed BARF, means 60% of meat and bones and other 40% ingredients. So i suggest to give half chicken per day, and give some fruits and vege as balanced nutrition, but he seems to be very irritated of my suggestion. He insisted that his method is appropriate, but i said too much protein will burden kidney.

Tired lah, i dont intend to earn his money or anything, just correct his way of feeding. Since he dont want to accept, then i dont want to "advise" him anymore.

So what do you think?



This post has been edited by dongdong86: Dec 20 2008, 01:02 AM
kiukiu
post Dec 19 2008, 01:41 AM

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QUOTE(Pennywise @ Dec 16 2008, 05:11 PM)
Aww man, I didnt notice this thread was growing so fast. I wanted to feed BARF but my main concern is that the diet might be inbalanced.

In a way, when we read the ingredients of a bag of dog kibbles, we noticed many other greens within and types of oil. I used to think about how much each kibble manufacturer make but when I think of all the ingredients placed inside, wonder how much it might cost. Despite the little amount of ingredients, its still better than nothing.

My dogs lick their bowl clean everyday, only some days they are moody and go on strike. I think if I feed BARF, there wont be any turning back. Now, I need to reconsider due to the factor I stated above.
*
One thing a lot of people forget about Barf Diet is Dr. B's stressing that "Balance is to be achieved over time". It is nigh impossible to provide a complete and balanced meal to an animal/person. Take for example ourself. If we are to eat a complete and balanced meal, everyday we'll be eating the same thing over and over again. Life will be super boring. That's why we will eat more meat on certain days, more vege on another, more Carbo and etc...

The same applies to Barf diet. It is better to achieve balance over time as well. No dogs can go get the same food over and over again in nature. They will sometimes feast on Meat, sometimes on overripe fruits and etc. Even Dr. B will not say his Barf Patties to be Complete and Nutritionally Balanced. He will only say that it is Nutritionally Adequate, and Nutritionally Right.

I'm not sure about any of you, but to me, I will not just vary the proportion of the content of the Barf I feed to my dog, but as well as the ingredients. This way, I can be sure that I cover the widest ground in term of nutrients.

Cheers.
dongdong86
post Dec 19 2008, 02:35 AM

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hi kiukiu, me too. we choose fruits and veges depends on seasonal, same goes to Pink BARF, all are seasonal ingredients.

Dog which eating kibbles are super boring man, but we always blame they are picky, actually we are more picky...
acsyen
post Dec 19 2008, 09:58 AM

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QUOTE(Doraemon11 @ Dec 16 2008, 02:07 PM)
If u having the big breed dog... u can give ur dog in pieces to chew... if ur dog is small/toy breed, better grind eveythg to feed.. but remember chop in big pieces and not small pieces, coz if too small size ur dog may just swallow it n tercekik lor..
*
Hi,

I would never encourage for the meat and bones to be grinded unless it is a very young pup or maybe the dog has lost it's teeth. I feed my young pup from 2-3 months old chunks of meat and bones. Only the vege and fruits are blended.
sassyJune
post Dec 22 2008, 10:56 PM

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QUOTE(iluv2zzz @ Dec 15 2008, 01:00 AM)
FYI I don't do BARF  tongue.gif  I do HCF (homecook food) but I came across a lot BARF when I doing my research. So I am just sharing with what I know. Generally most ingredient in BARF and HCF are similar. The major different is the preparation, proportion, and the bone tongue.gif

Perhaps we should have another proper thread for HCF includes all the treat baking recipe. Planning to bake some this week.

Alright, back to BARF. other then Dr.B that dongdong and yang said, what about Pitcairn? Anybody have a copy of Dr.Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Natural Health for dogs n cats?

http://www.drpitcairn.com/books/pitcairn_book.html
*
Hi iluv2zzz, i am interested in your HCF recipe, do you mind to share with me? i found this interesting article about the BARF diet http://www.consumersavvytips.org/what_is_the_barf_diet.html . the writer of this article hits the right point too. just to share....
TSWhite Palace
post Dec 23 2008, 04:05 PM

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QUOTE(acsyen @ Dec 19 2008, 09:58 AM)
Hi,

I would never encourage for the meat and bones to be grinded unless it is a very young pup or maybe the dog has lost it's teeth. I feed my young pup from 2-3 months old chunks of meat and bones. Only the vege and fruits are blended.
*
vege and fruits are blended with anything else?
PangurBan
post Dec 23 2008, 11:52 PM

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QUOTE(White Palace @ Dec 23 2008, 04:05 PM)
vege and fruits are blended with anything else?
*
I throw in bits and pieces of various vegetables and sometimes sesame seeds, almonds and other nuts, ikan bilis, hebi, whatever. At feeding time, I'd drizzle some olive oil or flaxseed oil or some fish oil. I might throw in some cooked buckwheat or millet or some other grain. Then mix that with the raw meat and bones stuff. Sometimes if I want to whip something up on the spot rather than prepare a batch for freezing, I'd just use a mortar and pestle rather than a blender.
acsyen
post Dec 24 2008, 09:08 AM

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QUOTE(White Palace @ Dec 23 2008, 04:05 PM)
vege and fruits are blended with anything else?
*
Got garlic, turmeric, liver, eggs, yogurt and all sorts of fruits n vege then mixed with ACV and soon to start some supplements too.
TSWhite Palace
post Dec 25 2008, 08:23 PM

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I see. Coz doggies normally dislike vege alone. Thanks for the info!
bluepuppygirl
post Jan 14 2009, 03:03 PM

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I love this thread.

I've got two dogs at home - Bobby, a 17kg spitz mix (considered mongrel) and Brandy, an 8kg shih tzu. Both are fed a diet of high quality kibble (Evo) and HCF.

Two days ago, I noticed Brandy scooting on her rear end. Immediately I suspected something was wrong with her anal glands and sent her to the vet. It turned out that her left anal gland was badly impacted. According to the vet, Brandy was probably raised on a diet of pure kibble since she was a puppy and she didn't drink enough water. So over a period of time, her digestive tract could not handle her hard poo and so it affected her anal glands. Note that I have no idea about Brandy's past because she's runaway/stray which we recently adopted. The vet told me to switch Brandy from kibble to wet dog food.

Now, I do not want to raise my dog on canned food. IMHO, if dry kibble is bad enough, imagine the amount of preservatives needed to keep wet food fresh. Probably more than dry food.

I'm thinking of switching my dog to a prey model diet which is similar to BARF, but minus the fruits and veges. According to information which I gathered from the Net, the prey model is based around providing nutrition through raw meaty bones, offal etc alone because dogs generally cannot digest vegetables and fruits unless mashed into pulp.

I got most of my info from here:

http://www.rawfed.com/

http://www.rawfeddogs.net/

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qi...13150731AA04RUc


Added on January 14, 2009, 3:07 pmI'm not against BARF, just that I fear I do not have the time to pulp fruits and veges. Still I think that any form of raw feeding, be it BARF or prey model will always be more superior to feeding processed food.



This post has been edited by bluepuppygirl: Jan 14 2009, 03:07 PM
aliciahorsley
post Jan 15 2009, 06:43 PM

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a note on veges. you can cook the veg and fruit portion if pulping is untenable. the most important is that the meat and bones are raw. furthermore, partially raw is better than totally cooked. also, remember nutrition over time! sometimes, cooked, sometimes raw for the veg is fine too! we've been doing this for many years and raw fed pets are so much healthier....you must try it.
american bully
post Jan 15 2009, 08:23 PM

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QUOTE(bluepuppygirl @ Jan 14 2009, 03:03 PM)
I love this thread.

I've got two dogs at home - Bobby, a 17kg spitz mix (considered mongrel) and Brandy, an 8kg shih tzu. Both are fed a diet of high quality kibble (Evo) and HCF.

Two days ago, I noticed Brandy scooting on her rear end. Immediately I suspected something was wrong with her anal glands and sent her to the vet. It turned out that her left anal gland was badly impacted. According to the vet, Brandy was probably raised on a diet of pure kibble since she was a puppy and she didn't drink enough water. So over a period of time, her digestive tract could not handle her hard poo and so it affected her anal glands. Note that I have no idea about Brandy's past because she's runaway/stray which we recently adopted. The vet told me to switch Brandy from kibble to wet dog food.

Now, I do not want to raise my dog on canned food. IMHO, if dry kibble is bad enough, imagine the amount of preservatives needed to keep wet food fresh. Probably more than dry food.

I'm thinking of switching my dog to a prey model diet which is similar to BARF, but minus the fruits and veges. According to information which I gathered from the Net, the prey model is based around providing nutrition through raw meaty bones, offal etc alone because dogs generally cannot digest vegetables and fruits unless mashed into pulp.

I got most of my info from here:

http://www.rawfed.com/

http://www.rawfeddogs.net/

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qi...13150731AA04RUc


Added on January 14, 2009, 3:07 pmI'm not against BARF, just that I fear I do not have the time to pulp fruits and veges. Still I think that any form of raw feeding, be it BARF or prey model will always be more superior to feeding processed food.
*
some dogs tend to have problems on EVOPET due to their higher protein level compared to other kibbles. and note their moisture level is not that high to.
My dog are feeding on EVO too, but she drinks lots of water...so far so good. =)
bluepuppygirl
post Jan 17 2009, 11:02 AM

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QUOTE(american bully @ Jan 15 2009, 09:23 PM)
some dogs tend to have problems on EVOPET due to their higher protein level compared to other kibbles. and note their moisture level is not that high to.
My dog are feeding on EVO too, but she drinks lots of water...so far so good. =)
*
Sigh, so much for Evo being a 6-star dog food.


Added on January 18, 2009, 7:20 pm1st day of feeding Brandy raw chicken - SHE LOVES IT! So much for reports of small dogs being picky eaters... I gave her a whole drumstick + 1/2 a piece of chicken liver and she cleaned everything up. At first I was worried she would reject raw meat but she handled it like a pro.

So happy! smile.gif



This post has been edited by bluepuppygirl: Jan 18 2009, 07:20 PM
TSWhite Palace
post Jan 24 2009, 02:41 PM

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Well, that's what they meant to eat! I believe animals are quite simple. They eat what they meant to eat, and refuse or reluctant to eat what they are not meant to. We don't say that a Wolf is too pampered because he doesnt take kibbles so must force him, he should eat raw!

bluepuppygirl, do give us feedback on how things go feeding raw alright?

This post has been edited by White Palace: Jan 24 2009, 02:42 PM
spinel-sun
post Jan 24 2009, 10:07 PM

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hey yang...can i actually feed my ruby kibbles and BARF together??

i mean for example 3times a week BARF then other days premium kibbles?? unsure.gif
TSWhite Palace
post Jan 25 2009, 02:10 AM

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Not advisable, the digestion rate for BARF and Kibbles is different, mixing them up or frequent switching might upset the stomach.
spinel-sun
post Jan 27 2009, 01:38 PM

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oic...thanks for the advice.. notworthy.gif


Rayne
post Feb 2 2009, 10:16 PM

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QUOTE(bluepuppygirl @ Jan 14 2009, 03:03 PM)
I'm thinking of switching my dog to a prey model diet which is similar to BARF, but minus the fruits and veges. According to information which I gathered from the Net, the prey model is based around providing nutrition through raw meaty bones, offal etc alone because dogs generally cannot digest vegetables and fruits unless mashed into pulp.

I got most of my info from here:

http://www.rawfed.com/

http://www.rawfeddogs.net/

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qi...13150731AA04RUc


Added on January 14, 2009, 3:07 pmI'm not against BARF, just that I fear I do not have the time to pulp fruits and veges. Still I think that any form of raw feeding, be it BARF or prey model will always be more superior to feeding processed food.
*
Hi bluepuppygirl, I feed my Scottie the Prey Model diet too. I have been feeding him for about 3-4 months now and the results were quite remarkable smile.gif His stools were much lesser compared to his kibble days, his breath doesn't smell as bad, and to me the greatest improvement was that his teeth is getting whiter than his kibble-fed days. He used to have a lot of tartar on his teeth even though I brush his teeth quite often, and even the vet said his teeth needed scaling. But after switching him to raw feeding, his teeth now is noticeably whiter and I don't need to brush his teeth now...biggrin.gif

I am no expert too, but I have found a Yahoo group on raw feeding, and I have learnt a lot from the more than 12000 members there. You can join it here: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

Besides those sites, here are some other sites on raw feeding recommended by the group...very good info here too:
http://www.rawlearning.com
http://www.rawmeatybones.com
http://www.rawfed.com/myths/
http://rawdiettruth.blogspot.com/

Hope these will help you in making your decision to feed your doggies raw wink.gif And yes, I like to believe that feeding any form of raw would still be better than feeding processed food. But then, the owner needs to read and do their research first before embarking on this, as feeding too much or too less of something can be detrimental.

Audrey

This post has been edited by Rayne: Feb 2 2009, 10:24 PM
TSWhite Palace
post Feb 9 2009, 01:25 PM

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Thank you for all the useful links. It sure helps for those who wish to learn more!
n3sbaby
post Feb 10 2009, 09:45 AM

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How often do you guys deworm your dog? Feeding barf should deworm more often?
Rayne
post Feb 10 2009, 10:50 AM

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For me, no...I deworm Scottie as usual, about 4-5 months once. smile.gif


Added on February 10, 2009, 3:03 pmWhat is Prey Model Diet?
(taken from http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawChat...rap=1&var=1&l=1 - you would need to be a member of the group to view the messages)

The species appropriate whole prey model diet has been modeled after what
the dog's very close relative, the wolf, eats in the wild. IOW, if a dog
were wild, and free to breed and pack up and roam to choose prey, what would
they eat?

From the research and writings by David Mech and other scientists, its been
learned that wolves, who are medium to large size critters, run in familial
packs and hunt down large ruminants - deer, elk, bison and the like - by
choice and seasonally they hunt and eat much smaller prey - such as rabbits,
birds, fish, rodents and even eggs - depending on the region the live in.
They eat everything; muscle, skin, fat, connective tissue, fur, organs,
bones, etc.
http://www.davemech.org/books.html

So, the IDEAL Whole Prey Model Diet is to feed entire wild prey animals to
our dogs. Most people can't manage to do that, so in comes the variants -
feeding smaller whole prey to different sized dogs and feeding them from
commercial or home grown or wild caught sources - such as mice, sardines,
rats, rabbits, mackerel, chickens, turkeys, lambs, goats, pigs, cows, etc.
Some of us also tweak the WPM diet to successfully feed dogs with physical
abnormalities, limitations or diseases.

Another variant is to Feed FrankenPrey - as wide a variety of cobbled
together animal parts and organs as it is possible to obtain, fed over time,
to simulate ideal prey. Most people, even experienced rf, on this list are
in the FrankenPrey feeding category, at least in part. Those of us who feed
mainly commercial meats also usually supplement with some sort of Omega 3 -
Fish Body or Salmon or other type of oil, to balance the preponderance and
imbalance of Omega 6s in that type of meat.

Most of us prefer to call what we do raw feeding - feeding a species
appropriate whole prey model diet, if we need to explain it and
differentiate it from the 'other flavors' of 'raw' that OP feed their dogs.

RMBs is a very loose term, and conjures up, for me, at least, a vision of a
bare nekkid bone, with shreds of meat and connective tissue clinging to it.
Not nearly meaty enough for a real species appropriate
Whole Prey model/FrankenPrey diet! Anything that is referred to as BONE
first and foremost; RMB, marrow, recreational (wreck), soup, 'dog' bones, et
al - are not, IMO & E, meaty enough to feed as a meal. The same goes, imo,
for bony parts - necks, backs, any part that you can see the bone, and isn't
completely covered in meat, is usually too bony to feed regularly without
added meat.

Its just not usually cost effective to buy bony parts, when you have to then
buy meatymeat to add to meals.

The general 'rule of thumb' guideline, that averages out all whole prey
(each whole prey animal has a different proportion and is 'perfect' for
itself) bone to meatymeat to organ proportions to a 'formula' is;

80% meatymeat - muscle, fat, skin, fur, connective tissues and such muscular
organs as heart, tongue and gizzards.
10% EDIBLE and digestible bone
10% organs - 3-5% liver and 5-7% 'other' organs, such as kidney, spleen,
pancreas, lungs, brains, sweetbreads, tripe, etc and so forth.



Other good links for reading on raw feeding as well:
http://www.thewholedog.org/artcarnivores.html
http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html
http://www.rawlearning.com/supplementmyths.html
http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html
http://rawfeddogs.net/Recipes
http://rawfeddogs.net/FAQlist

Nutrition data calculating sites;
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/174712[SIZE=7]

This post has been edited by Rayne: Feb 10 2009, 03:30 PM
n3sbaby
post Feb 10 2009, 11:07 PM

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I start to give my dog chicken wing as dinner since last night....
Today I saw his stool having some bone which is not ingested properly...
that means he didn't chew properly?
Today dinner, he grab the chicken wing and want to eat inside his bed...I faster carry him to the kitchen then he thought I am going to grab his chicken wing away XD ended up he almost choked by the chicken wing as he is like gulping...is it coz of the chicken wing is small? so he won't really chew on it?
crazymouse_yyh
post Feb 10 2009, 11:16 PM

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QUOTE(n3sbaby @ Feb 10 2009, 11:07 PM)
I start to give my dog chicken wing as dinner since last night....
Today I saw his stool having some bone which is not ingested properly...
that means he didn't chew properly?
Today dinner, he grab the chicken wing and want to eat inside his bed...I faster carry him to the kitchen then he thought I am going to grab his chicken wing away XD ended up he almost choked by the chicken wing as he is like gulping...is it coz of the chicken wing is small? so he won't really chew on it?
*
Some bones in stool is normal. Nothing to worry about as it is just passing out.

What you did was wrong, to carry him fast. You scared him, and made him try to gulp the chicken wing down because it thought you wanted to steal it away. Dogs are somewhat protective over food and shouldn't be frightened or threaten during mealtimes.

You should feed him in a quiet place, with newspaper around as some dogs like to eat their food on covered ground. Never try to carry or snatch away the food when a dog is eating and do not sit too close to your dog coz it needs privacy when eating too.
dongdong86
post Feb 11 2009, 01:30 AM

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QUOTE(n3sbaby @ Feb 10 2009, 11:07 PM)
I start to give my dog chicken wing as dinner since last night....
Today I saw his stool having some bone which is not ingested properly...
that means he didn't chew properly?
Today dinner, he grab the chicken wing and want to eat inside his bed...I faster carry him to the kitchen then he thought I am going to grab his chicken wing away XD ended up he almost choked by the chicken wing as he is like gulping...is it coz of the chicken wing is small? so he won't really chew on it?
*
chicken wing and drumstick is not advisable to give. other body parts are ok like ribs, breast, keels etc.
Rayne
post Feb 11 2009, 09:11 AM

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QUOTE(n3sbaby @ Feb 10 2009, 11:07 PM)
I start to give my dog chicken wing as dinner since last night....
Today I saw his stool having some bone which is not ingested properly...
that means he didn't chew properly?
Today dinner, he grab the chicken wing and want to eat inside his bed...I faster carry him to the kitchen then he thought I am going to grab his chicken wing away XD ended up he almost choked by the chicken wing as he is like gulping...is it coz of the chicken wing is small? so he won't really chew on it?
*
Are you just starting out to feed your dog a raw meal? If so, undigested bones is quite normal for beginners as they are adjusting to the new kind of food and digestion.

If you want to teach your dog to eat at one place, you could put him in an enclosure like a playpen and lay out an old towel/mat for him to eat there. If he tries to bring the food away, don't carry him back. Take the food away gently by telling him 'Give' and put back on the towel/mat for him to eat. Do that a few more times and he will remember that the towel/mat is the only place to eat.

How big is your dog though? If he can swallow the whole chicken wing in one bite, then yes, the wing is too small. Feed pieces that are at least bigger than his head so that he can work and chew on it to clean his teeth more.



QUOTE(dongdong86)
chicken wing and drumstick is not advisable to give. other body parts are ok like ribs, breast, keels etc.

I beg to differ. I feed Scottie wings and drumsticks all the time with no problems. But I do add additional meat when I'm feeding wings coz wings by itself are too boney and too much bone can make the stools crumbly. If a person is just starting out however, it's a good idea to start with easy bone-in parts, like breast and keels. After they're used to it, just start feeding the other parts of the chicken. smile.gif
JyEn
post Feb 11 2009, 09:25 AM

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my baby just started to eat barf last week. very good. she love it. and she is getting chubby.
Rayne
post Feb 11 2009, 09:31 AM

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QUOTE(JyEn @ Feb 11 2009, 09:25 AM)
my baby just started to eat barf last week. very good. she love it. and she is getting chubby.
*
Hi Jyen! Cool! More people starting to feed raw...smile.gif Great to hear that Baby loves it...if she's getting chubbier, you could lower the amount to feed her to get her back into her ideal weight. smile.gif I believe there's a percentage of how much to feed your dog in BARF. For the Prey Model diet, it's 2% of the estimated ideal adult weight, but this is also not a preset thing. If our dog is getting chubbier, then we need to lower the amount. If the dog is getting too skinny, then we would need to up the amount to get the ideal weight back. Main thing is to always monitor and feel your dog to maintain a good weight. smile.gif
n3sbaby
post Feb 11 2009, 09:51 AM

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QUOTE(crazymouse_yyh @ Feb 10 2009, 11:16 PM)
Some bones in stool is normal. Nothing to worry about as it is just passing out.

What you did was wrong, to carry him fast. You scared him, and made him try to gulp the chicken wing down because it thought you wanted to steal it away. Dogs are somewhat protective over food and shouldn't be frightened or threaten during mealtimes.

You should feed him in a quiet place, with newspaper around as some dogs like to eat their food on covered ground. Never try to carry or snatch away the food when a dog is eating and do not sit too close to your dog coz it needs privacy when eating too.
*
Thanks for your advice crazymouse~ Tonite i will close the kitchen door to let him stay inside when taking his meal biggrin.gif


QUOTE(dongdong86 @ Feb 11 2009, 01:30 AM)
chicken wing and drumstick is not advisable to give. other body parts are ok like ribs, breast, keels etc.
*
hmm....i just thought chicken wing is good as I just started to feed my baby raw...

QUOTE(Rayne @ Feb 11 2009, 09:11 AM)
Are you just starting out to feed your dog a raw meal? If so, undigested bones is quite normal for beginners as they are adjusting to the new kind of food and digestion.

If you want to teach your dog to eat at one place, you could put him in an enclosure like a playpen and lay out an old towel/mat for him to eat there. If he tries to bring the food away, don't carry him back. Take the food away gently by telling him 'Give' and put back on the towel/mat for him to eat. Do that a few more times and he will remember that the towel/mat is the only place to eat.

How big is your dog though? If he can swallow the whole chicken wing in one bite, then yes, the wing is too small. Feed pieces that are at least bigger than his head so that he can work and chew on it to clean his teeth more.
QUOTE(dongdong86)
chicken wing and drumstick is not advisable to give. other body parts are ok like ribs, breast, keels etc.

I beg to differ. I feed Scottie wings and drumsticks all the time with no problems. But I do add additional meat when I'm feeding wings coz wings by itself are too boney and too much bone can make the stools crumbly. If a person is just starting out however, it's a good idea to start with easy bone-in parts, like breast and keels. After they're used to it, just start feeding the other parts of the chicken. smile.gif
*
yea...just started for 2 days...which in the morning i still giving kibbles...i know the digestion for commercial food and raw food is different, but since he still left a bit of kibbles, i will let him finish first then completely switching to raw... tongue.gif Ok...so now i know undigested bones is normal... nod.gif
do you mean how old is my dog? He is a male shih tzu which is 1 year 8 months+ around 5.8kg~~~ if i am going to give pieces that are bigger than his head, it could be very very big right? like that means 1 meal per day should be enough?

Rayne
post Feb 11 2009, 10:02 AM

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QUOTE(n3sbaby @ Feb 11 2009, 09:51 AM)
yea...just started for 2 days...which in the morning i still giving kibbles...i know the digestion for commercial food and raw food is different, but since he still left a bit of kibbles, i will let him finish first then completely switching to raw... tongue.gif  Ok...so now i know undigested bones is normal... nod.gif
do you mean how old is my dog? He is a male shih tzu which is 1 year 8 months+ around 5.8kg~~~ if i am going to give pieces that are bigger than his head, it could be very very big right? like that means 1 meal per day should be enough?
*
I meant how heavy or big in size is your dog..smile.gif But you already mentioned that he's 5.8kg, so he's about the size of my Scottie (Scottie is about 6.7kg). It is entirely up to you if you want to feed once a day or twice a day. If you want to continue feeding twice a day, and want to feed pieces bigger than his head, you could just give a big piece, let him eat for about 15-20 mins (or as much as he wants if he knows how to regulate himself) and keep the rest of it in the fridge for the next meal. In the next meal, just let him eat everything. smile.gif Me, I prefer to keep things simple, so I just feed Scottie one big meal in the evening when I get back from work smile.gif

Are you feeding the BARF Model or the Prey Model Diet? If you're feeding the BARF Model, I probably can't help you much with it coz I feed the Prey Model diet to Scottie (which is basically just meat, bones and organs - no veggies, fruits or supplements) From your previous post, you mentioned only the chicken wing for your dog's first meal...is that all you are feeding? If so, it would be closer to the Prey Model diet. Try not to feed chicken wings by itself next time. Leave the chicken wing attached to a bigger part of the breast meat to ensure there's more meat, or just add more meat to the meal coz wings by itself is too boney. Was your dog's poo firm when he poo-ed after the first raw meal?
JyEn
post Feb 11 2009, 10:03 AM

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QUOTE(Rayne @ Feb 11 2009, 09:31 AM)
Hi Jyen! Cool! More people starting to feed raw...smile.gif Great to hear that Baby loves it...if she's getting chubbier, you could lower the amount to feed her to get her back into her ideal weight. smile.gif I believe there's a percentage of how much to feed your dog in BARF. For the Prey Model diet, it's 2% of the estimated ideal adult weight, but this is also not a preset thing. If our dog is getting chubbier, then we need to lower the amount. If the dog is getting too skinny, then we would need to up the amount to get the ideal weight back. Main thing is to always monitor and feel your dog to maintain a good weight. smile.gif
*
she is chubby coz she will eat other dog food as well. she chubby not coz barf. she still puppy so i know how much to give her barf. luckily she like it. anyway her name is zhuzhu tongue.gif
Rayne
post Feb 11 2009, 10:05 AM

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Hehe...Zhuzhu sounds appropriate biggrin.gif Yeah, puppies can eat more since they're growing up fast, so it's all good. smile.gif I thought she's adult already....heh!



This post has been edited by Rayne: Feb 11 2009, 10:22 AM
Rayne
post Feb 11 2009, 10:23 AM

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Here's something I found for beginners who would want to feed the Prey Model diet. I got this from my raw feeding group: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/ which has now more than 14000 members, and they have been very helpful in terms of information, tips and advice on getting your dog on the raw side wink.gif I have made some small little notes in between too. These are the ones in blue and itallic.


Recommendations for beginning raw feeding:
1. You`ll want to start with 2-3% of your dog's (or puppy's) ESTIMATED IDEAL
ADULT
weight. Tweak with more meat if your dog gets a bit skinny, a bit less if
your dog gets 'fluffy' over the space of a few weeks.

You might start out by weighing your dog, and weighing her meals; but
most don`t continue once they get more comfortable and more experienced
feeding raw. Tiny, toy, pregnant, puppies or very active dogs might need as
much as 4 -5% or more - very large, giant, overweight or couch potato dogs
might need less than 2% to maintain.

2. Ditch the kibble or canned, there`s been plenty of discussion on this
list about why processed foods and raw don't mix; just let it suffice that
your dog can reap the benefits of raw faster and more completely if you
donate the kibble to your local shelter asap.

A species appropriate raw whole prey model diet doesn`t include kibble.
Or veggies, grains, carbs, dairy, fruits or tons of supps. Or, for the most
part, ground meats.

No need for w/rec/k bones either. And, your dog may be less motivated to
make the change if he can smell that kibble!

3. Offer at least 2 meals a day to start with. (3 meals for a pup under 6 - 7
months old, 4 for a pup under 4 mo, or for tiny dogs) Feeding once a day
(or even less often) can be a great feeding plan for a dog, but not at
first; too much new food at a meal can cause digestive upset. Feed as large
a portion as you can for the size of the meal. No little pieces or cut up,
'bite sized' chucks.

Dogs need to tear into their food and shear hunks off to swallow and
crunch bone for physical, mental and dental health. They don`t chew or eat
the way we do - their jaws aren't designed to move from side to side, just
up and down - their digestion begins in their stomachs, not in their mouths.
So swallowing big hunks of meat and bone is fine. If it fits, its OK.

If it isn't happy in the stomach, the dog will hork it up, and re eat
it, so it will go down and stay down the 2nd or 3rd time. Its all good,
that`s the way dogs are.
(Note: I've seen this before many times with Scottie too. He would actually vomit out whatever that's not settled and happily eat it back. Gross for me,yes but he's okay with it)

4. Feed a little less at each meal at first than you think you should. Too
much new food over the course of a day or two can cause digestive upset,
too. Some dogs are, or learn to be, self-regulators. That means, no matter
how much food you offer them, or how often, they will only eat as much as
they need.

You might just want to offer them fattier portions of meatymeat pork,
tongue, beef or veal heart with the cap fat left on, some trim) more often,
after they get used to eating raw.

Just be sure your new-to-raw dog knows that what you are serving is *real* food, then, leave him to decide.
OTOH, some dogs never get full! "Know thy Dog." is the motto that applies here.

5. Stay with one new meat for at least a week, maybe two. You want the dog
to be showing you that he is well adjusted to the new meat before adding in
new stuff. Take it slow; add only one new meat every week or two.

6. You can switch to a new meat by just serving it at the next meal, and
all the meals after that for a week or so, or you can add a bite or two of
the new meat in with the 'old' meat, gradually adding more new and less
'old' over several days, until you are feeding all new and no 'old'.

Pups tend to acclimate much more quickly to variety in their diet.
Whatever works for your own dog.

7. Boneless meals tend to produce loose, even runny poops. A judicious
amount of bone in a newbie dog's meal will tend to firm things up. There
will be less poop overall; raw is much more digestible and less goes to
waste. Poops will be less frequent also, for the same reason.

Bone adds bulk, so sloppy poops can be firmed up by some (don't go
overboard!) bone at each meal at first. Too much bone and your dog can get
" fossil" poops that are dry, whitish and crumbly.

8. Chicken is often recommended as the first meat to be introduced for
several reasons: its cheap, easy to obtain, has easily consumed and digested
bones, is easy to cut into different meal sized portions, is bland, you can
trim visible
fat and skin if you need to tweak, you can even take out bone if you need
to, most dogs will eat it and its pretty bland.

Read the labels on the chicken before you buy; don't get any that say
its enhanced with flavoring/seasoning s, tenderizing additives or
salt/sugar/broth injected. Some dogs get itchy or vomit or get true diarrhea
from enhancements. Whole chickens are the best to start with, ime. Cut into
portion sizes with kitchen shears, as needed.

9. Some newbie dogs vomit or poop bone bits. There is an adjustment
period, so you want some bone in most meals at first, but too much bone may
not be digested and the dog will just hork it up or poop it out.

NPs, its just the dog's way of saying "Too much right now, no thanks."

10. Some dogs will get the Bile Vomits or Bone Bits Bile Vomits (BV or BBBV)
when new to raw simply because their schedules or routines of eating have
been changed.

When a dog adjusts to raw, his gastric 'juices' become much more acid, to
better digest the raw meat and bone. If he's expecting a meal at a certain
time, the juices start flowing in anticipation of getting a meal. When the
meal doesn't happen, the dog often will hork up the yellowish, foamyish
bile, with or without bones.

Sometimes they hork up BBBV because raw digests faster than kibble, the
tummy is empty, so it must be time to eat. NP for the dog, he's gotten rid
of the irritation. He may react as if he feels bad, just because you are
upset that he did it on your new comforter, or on the white carpet.

11. A lot of dogs don't drink as much water or as frequently when switched
to all raw, all the time. Raw has a pretty high water content and most dogs
are forced by dry as dust kibble to over drink water to compensate in order
for their bodies to process it. If only fed raw, you don't need to coax your
dog to drink more water or even broth, just offer plenty of fresh water,
he'll drink when he needs it.

12. True diarrhea is not just loose, runny or sloppy poops. It is frequent,
liquid or watery explosions of poo that a dog cannot 'hold back'.

True diarrhea is caused by disease or parasites. The occasional loose
poops, or "Cannon Butt" even over a few days, that comes from feeding a few
too many boneless meals or introing too much of a new meat or feeding too
much organ at one whack, is not diarrhea.

13. The general rule of thumb for feeding raw is: 80% meat (muscle, fat,
skin, connective tissue and such muscular organs as heart, tongue and
gizzard) 10% EDIBLE bone (not all bone that is served must be consumed) and

10% organs (3-5% of this is liver, the rest is as much variety as you
can find and afford) This is not an immutable 'daily requirement' .

"Balance Over Time", over weeks and months is one of the raw feeding
maxims. ; ) If you feed true whole prey, that is; entire animals at a time,
then the meat to bone to organ ratios are 'perfect' for that creature.
Whatever parts your dog can eat of is right for him. In the wild, wolves
will eat off a large animal carcass for days, and each wolf gets different
parts.

If times are hard, they will consume the entire critter, including
skin, fur, less 'choice' parts and will even crack the hard long bones to
get to the marrow, even hunt small prey, like rabbits, mice or birds. If
pickin's are plentiful, they will eat the easiest and choice parts, and then
move on.

Because of variances in size, age, personality, life experiences,
structure and dental ability, a particular dog will be able to consume, or
not: all or part or some or a little bone from any particular animal. The
exception to this is most beef bones, and the weight bearing bones of large
ruminants - too dense - these are tooth breakers and can cause early wear.

If you feed 'Frankenprey' , that is; a variety of protein, body parts
and organs from different animals, to simulate the whole prey experience for
your dogs, you are challenged to find enough variety in all these aspects
for optimal health.

14. Organs - don't try to add a lot of organs or organ variety at first. An
easy way to satisfy the human need to "Do it all, right now!", is to toss
the gizzards and heart you get with your whole chickens in with a bonier
meal, a little piece at a meal.

Heart and gizzards are organs, but should be fed as meatymeat. The liver
can be cut up into teensy bits, and fed a tiny bit at a time with a meal.
This will allow you to feed organs, but shouldn't cause runny stools. If it
does, stop feeding it and freeze those parts for later on down the line.

My list of organs, so I don't forget to look for variety; liver, salivary
glands, spleen, trachea, esophagus, sweetbread (thymus & pancreas),
ears, kidneys, repro organs, brain.

"Offal" - viscera and trimmings of a butchered animal often considered
inedible by humans, but great dog food! Offal can fall into either
meatymeat or organ categories.

15. SEBP - Slippery Elm Bark Powder. This is a good innocuous herb that
soothes the stomach and digestive system. If you feel you need to intervene
when your dog has loose poops or constipation, this is the way to go. SEBP
is used to treat diarrhea, constipation, enteritis, colitis & irritations of
the stomach. Its used to soothe, protect & lubricate mucous membranes. Also,
can be used to relieve the discomforts of kennel cough & other types of
bronchitis.
(Note: I would SO love to get my hands on these, but I can't seem to find them here in Malaysia. If anyone has seen this before, please do let me know!)

http://fiascofarm.com/herbs/supplements.htm

I have used 1 Tsp - 1 Tbl of SEBP to 8 - 12 oz of ground or chopped chicken.
Mix together and shape enough meatballs for several days, and freeze them.
They thaw quickly. For small dogs, divide in ounce meatballs, for large to
giant dogs, 1 ounce meatballs. Feed 1 with each meal. Or, fast for a day,
(not for pups, fast for just a meal or two) offer plenty of water. Feed SEBP
meatballs 3-4 times throughout the day.

Feed smaller, more frequent meals for several days after, gradually
increasing the meals and decreasing the SEBP meatballs. You will often see
an increase in mucousy poops with SEBP, this is part of the way it soothes
the digestive system, and the dog's body will do the same sometimes even
without SEBP. You can also mix it with meat broth and feed it whenever you
fast/rest the dog's digestive tract. And you can dust meat with SEBP when
there's digestive upset.

16. You can feed pretty much any animal or animal part that your dog will
eat and that won't break the bank. : ) Common grocery store variety suffices
for some; chicken, turkey, pork, beef, lamb, fish, rabbit. Others can obtain
at a reasonable price and feed; goat, venison, emu, ostrich, bison, beefalo,
elk, mutton, mice, rats, guinea hen, quail, bear (bear? wink.gif ), the list goes
on and on.

17. If you MUST supplement, you can add Salmon or Fish Body oil, either in
caps or liquid. It adds Omega 3 fatty acids to the diet, to balance out the
Omega 6s, which supermarket meats are high in.

Make sure it doesn't have any plant based oils, like soy, in there.
Build up the dog's bowel tolerance gradually to a maintenance dosage.

Follow the recommendations that come with the product you buy:

http://timberwolforganics.com/pet-omega-oils
http://www.icelandpure.com/salmon_oil.htm
[url=http://www.grizzlypetproducts.com/salmon_ oil/salmon_ oil.html]http://www.grizzlypetproducts.com/salmon_ oil/salmon_ oil.html[/url]
(Note: Not sure if these brands are available here, but I think basically most Salmon Body Oil brands here are okay. Just make sure to check that there's no soy in it)

In the case of true disease, you may need certain supps, but this is the
exception to the rule, most dogs don't.

Whole chickens, turkeys, pork shoulder roasts and fresh hams are all big
hunks 'o meat and edible and digestible bone that you should be considering
introducing into your pup's feeding plan, as well as organs.

It really isn't that hard to raw feed your dog. There's a learning curve,
definitely. But, that's what this list(the group) is here for.

Read as many daily posts as you can, read the files on the website, and
follow those links! Search in the archives for past posts with keywords; new
to raw, newbie, help, how do I start or other words that reflect your
specific search.
(Note: To do this, you would have to join the group)
JyEn
post Feb 11 2009, 10:53 AM

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it come with 100g ma. i giv 50g in the morning before i go work lo. come home she eat kibbles lo. other than that she is on canidae. hehe and she is much more chubbier edi when she not wearing tshirt. hahaha
Rayne
post Feb 11 2009, 11:01 AM

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QUOTE(JyEn @ Feb 11 2009, 10:53 AM)
it come with 100g ma. i giv 50g in the morning before i go work lo. come home she eat kibbles lo. other than that she is on canidae. hehe and she is much more chubbier edi when she not wearing tshirt. hahaha
*
Awww...she sounds so cute! Do you have any recent photos of her? I love chubby puppies...they all look so cuddly wan when they're a bit chubby biggrin.gif
bluepuppygirl
post Feb 11 2009, 11:02 AM

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I'm feeding my 1yr+ female shih tzu a slightly modified version of the prey model diet.

I feed 1% of her body weight of raw meat, bones and organs for dinner because she's on the chubby side.

But she gets breakfast - a hard boiled egg and/or a tablespoon of cooked oats in warm water for fiber.

Sometimes I find bits of undigested bones in her poop, but that's okay because I read that the dog's body only absorb as much calcium as it needs. The rest comes out in her poop.

At night she gets a whole drumstick and a bit of chicken organs (liver/heart/gizzards). Sometimes I substitute the drumstick with two wings.

My mother's friend condemned me behind my back for feeding my dog raw meat. She said by feeding raw, my dog will get food poisoning from bacteria in the meat and my dog will become very aggressive and start attacking its owners. What bull. My dog on raw has NEVER once gotten diarrhea... but on kibble, yes. And if my dog become very aggressive, I think I will not be alive today to type out this post. LOL.



JyEn
post Feb 11 2009, 11:09 AM

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QUOTE(Rayne @ Feb 11 2009, 11:01 AM)
Awww...she sounds so cute! Do you have any recent photos of her? I love chubby puppies...they all look so cuddly wan when they're a bit chubby biggrin.gif
*
got ah... here she is.. my daughter zhuzhu.. but with tee on. later take her pic without. fat de

This post has been edited by JyEn: Feb 11 2009, 11:10 AM


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bluepuppygirl
post Feb 11 2009, 11:12 AM

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Rayne: SEBP iherb [dot] com got. Under "Now Foods" brand. If you can post to an address in Australia or Singapore, shipping is very cheap. Sometimes they even got US$1.99 shipping to countries that accept UPS. I used to do that, post to my friend in Australia then ask him to bring back during holiday breaks.


Rayne
post Feb 11 2009, 11:14 AM

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QUOTE(bluepuppygirl @ Feb 11 2009, 11:02 AM)
I'm feeding my 1yr+ female shih tzu a slightly modified version of the prey model diet.

I feed 1% of her body weight of  raw meat, bones and organs for dinner because she's on the chubby side.

But she gets breakfast - a hard boiled egg and/or a tablespoon of cooked oats in warm water for fiber.

Sometimes I find bits of undigested bones in her poop, but that's okay because I read that the dog's body only absorb as much calcium as it needs. The rest comes out in her poop.

At night she gets a whole drumstick and a bit of chicken organs (liver/heart/gizzards). Sometimes I substitute the drumstick with two wings.

My mother's friend condemned me behind my back for feeding my dog raw meat. She said by feeding raw, my dog will get food poisoning from bacteria in the meat and my dog will become very aggressive and start attacking its owners. What bull. My dog on raw has NEVER once gotten diarrhea... but on kibble, yes. And if my dog become very aggressive, I think I will not be alive today to type out this post. LOL.
*
Well, in the prey model diet, if you want to let your dog lose weight, the percentage is still about 2%. Only if we want to let them gain weight, we up the percentage. But again, it's up to you as the owner to 'Know Your Dog'. If you feel she only needs 1%, then 1% it is smile.gif

I get that a lot too from other people...even my vet said that raw feeding will promote transmission of disease from the dog to the people in the house. After feeding Scottie for almost 6 months now (I started in August '08), he has not have any problems whatsoever. In fact, he has no need to see the vet since then compared to his kibble days where I had to send him to the vet for skin problems, ear infections, etc. Bacteria is everywhere, IMO. If we maintain good hygiene before, during and after feeding, it should not pose a problem to the dog, nor the people in the house.

Scottie has NEVER been aggressive with me (though he will growl a warning when Kenji - my sister's Chihuahua - comes near him during feeding time) during feeding time. In fact, I can just take the meat from his mouth and he won't make a peep. smile.gif Training is also important, IMO. Blaming aggressiveness on a raw diet is absurd.


Added on February 11, 2009, 11:16 am
QUOTE(bluepuppygirl @ Feb 11 2009, 11:12 AM)
Rayne: SEBP iherb [dot] com got. Under "Now Foods" brand. If you can post to an address in Australia or Singapore, shipping is very cheap. Sometimes they even got US$1.99 shipping to countries that accept UPS. I used to do that, post to my friend in Australia then ask him to bring back during holiday breaks.
*
Thanks for the info! Sadly, I don't have any relatives or friends who stay in Australia or Singapore sad.gif I will try and look it up to see though...thanks again!

This post has been edited by Rayne: Feb 11 2009, 11:16 AM
n3sbaby
post Feb 11 2009, 11:16 AM

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QUOTE(Rayne @ Feb 11 2009, 10:02 AM)
I meant how heavy or big in size is your dog..smile.gif But you already mentioned that he's 5.8kg, so he's about the size of my Scottie (Scottie is about 6.7kg). It is entirely up to you if you want to feed once a day or twice a day. If you want to continue feeding twice a day, and want to feed pieces bigger than his head, you could just give a big piece, let him eat for about 15-20 mins (or as much as he wants if he knows how to regulate himself) and keep the rest of it in the fridge for the next meal. In the next meal, just let him eat everything. smile.gif Me, I prefer to keep things simple, so I just feed Scottie one big meal in the evening when I get back from work smile.gif

Are you feeding the BARF Model or the Prey Model Diet? If you're feeding the BARF Model, I probably can't help you much with it coz I feed the Prey Model diet to Scottie (which is basically just meat, bones and organs - no veggies, fruits or supplements) From your previous post, you mentioned only the chicken wing for your dog's first meal...is that all you are feeding? If so, it would be closer to the Prey Model diet. Try not to feed chicken wings by itself next time. Leave the chicken wing attached to a bigger part of the breast meat to ensure there's more meat, or just add more meat to the meal coz wings by itself is too boney. Was your dog's poo firm when he poo-ed after the first raw meal?
*
Actually I am giving a bit of veggies and fruits to my dog as well....My dog love veggies and fruits....
Do you give the meat when it's still frozen? so if your dog can't finish the portion, you will put in the frozen part of the fridge?

JyEn
post Feb 11 2009, 11:18 AM

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rayne i just realise that u r nottie scottie. swt
Rayne
post Feb 11 2009, 11:22 AM

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QUOTE(JyEn @ Feb 11 2009, 11:09 AM)
got ah... here she is.. my daughter zhuzhu.. but with tee on. later take her pic without. fat de
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Omigosh...she's ADORABLE! biggrin.gif From the photo like that,she doesn't look THAT fat. But then, photos can be deceiving. LOL! smile.gif


QUOTE(n3sbaby)
Actually I am giving a bit of veggies and fruits to my dog as well....My dog love veggies and fruits....
Do you give the meat when it's still frozen? so if your dog can't finish the portion, you will put in the frozen part of the fridge?


OIC...cool! Scottie likes fruits too, but I only give them occasionally as treats. smile.gif

For meats, I usually defrost it in the fridge a day before Scottie's meal. He would get the meat not frozen. But if you feel that your dog gulps his food down, you can feed frozen meat to give him a bit of a challenge and make him chew his food properly smile.gif If you're feeding the same meat back in the next meal, you can just chill in the fridge instead of freezing it. Hope that helps!
bluepuppygirl
post Feb 11 2009, 11:23 AM

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QUOTE(n3sbaby @ Feb 11 2009, 12:16 PM)
Actually I am giving a bit of veggies and fruits to my dog as well....My dog love veggies and fruits....
Do you give the meat when it's still frozen? so if your dog can't finish the portion, you will put in the frozen part of the fridge?
*
Oooh you're so lucky your dogs like veggies and fruits!

My shih tzu will only accept bits of fruits if hand fed.

Raw meat and bones, I keep in the freezer. But I'll take them out to defrost before I go to work. By the time I get home around 5:30pm, the meat is soft already and slightly cool to touch. If my dog cannot finish her meal, I will take it away, put it in a small plastic container and dump it in the fridge. Then I'll give it to her again a few hours later.
Rayne
post Feb 11 2009, 11:25 AM

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QUOTE(JyEn @ Feb 11 2009, 11:18 AM)
rayne i just realise that u r nottie scottie. swt
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LOL! Yeah...my other username is Rayne, but then when I started Scottie's blog, I kind of like NottieScottie too, so I started using that as my username biggrin.gif

What does swt mean? I'm a bit blur with abbreviations...tongue.gif
JyEn
post Feb 11 2009, 11:28 AM

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QUOTE(Rayne @ Feb 11 2009, 11:22 AM)
Omigosh...she's ADORABLE! biggrin.gif From the photo like that,she doesn't look THAT fat. But then, photos can be deceiving. LOL! smile.gif
QUOTE(n3sbaby)
Actually I am giving a bit of veggies and fruits to my dog as well....My dog love veggies and fruits....
Do you give the meat when it's still frozen? so if your dog can't finish the portion, you will put in the frozen part of the fridge?


OIC...cool! Scottie likes fruits too, but I only give them occasionally as treats. smile.gif

For meats, I usually defrost it in the fridge a day before Scottie's meal. He would get the meat not frozen. But if you feel that your dog gulps his food down, you can feed frozen meat to give him a bit of a challenge and make him chew his food properly smile.gif If you're feeding the same meat back in the next meal, you can just chill in the fridge instead of freezing it. Hope that helps!
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QUOTE(Rayne @ Feb 11 2009, 11:25 AM)
LOL! Yeah...my other username is Rayne, but then when I started Scottie's blog, I kind of like NottieScottie too, so I started using that as my username biggrin.gif

What does swt mean? I'm a bit blur with abbreviations...tongue.gif
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ya coz she is wearing the shirt. if not she look like carpet after brushing her. swt
oh by the way swt = sweat sweat.gif <<<
Rayne
post Feb 11 2009, 11:33 AM

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QUOTE(JyEn @ Feb 11 2009, 11:28 AM)
ya coz she is wearing the shirt. if not she look like carpet after brushing her. swt
oh by the way swt = sweat  sweat.gif  <<<
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Hehe..I can imagine that...smile.gif

Oic...thanks for explaining! biggrin.gif I thought it meant 'sweet' at first, but after seeing other people's post, it didn't seem to make sense. LOL! That ('sweat') made sense...
JyEn
post Feb 11 2009, 11:41 AM

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haha ya lo. keke icon_rolleyes.gif
n3sbaby
post Feb 11 2009, 11:49 AM

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Rayne...actually the purpose of giving frozen meat is to avoid the germs and bacteria? am i right?

bluepuppygirl ....yeah...my dog really like all the green veggies...he likes carrot, brocolli, cucubmer, tomato etc....apple is his favourite...he will jumping when see me taking out apple from the fridge...hehe...
normally in the morning i took the meat from the upper part of the fridge to put in the lower part so that it can defrost but still a bit frozen...
Rayne
post Feb 11 2009, 11:58 AM

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QUOTE(n3sbaby @ Feb 11 2009, 11:49 AM)
Rayne...actually the purpose of giving frozen meat is to avoid the germs and bacteria? am i right?
Erm..no,not really. Freezing is just a way to be able to keep the meat for a longer time, especially for me coz I buy quite a lot of meat to store. smile.gif Freezing CAN kill parasites (like worms), but not necessarily bacteria. It will slow down their activities, but not necessarily kill them. (I freeze pork and wild boar meat for at least 2 weeks to kill off parasites - trichinosis - that MIGHT be in the meat before feeding them to Scottie. Other than that, if I happen to buy fresh meat and there's no more in the freezer, I just feed it to Scottie like that)

Like I said, bacteria is everywhere (yes, even in kibble!), and our dog's digestive system is not like us humans. Their stomach pH is very acidic, and can kill bacteria easily. Which is why sometimes we see dogs eat things they're not supposed to eat (like rubbish, spoiled food, poop, etc) and still go around like normal.

Some dogs don't like to eat frozen meat, and some do, so it's up to you to know your dog and see which way to feed him/her lo.

BTW, my real name is Audrey smile.gif Nice to meet you!
n3sbaby
post Feb 11 2009, 12:02 PM

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Nice to meet you Audrey~ I am Agnes~
that is so nice you share so much of your experience with everybody~~~ I feed my dog when it's still frozen to avoid to see the blood actually....haha...i feel very disgusting....and my dog is having long fur....it will be a mess... tongue.gif
Rayne
post Feb 11 2009, 12:06 PM

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Hi Agnes! smile.gif

No la,I just share what I've learnt so that more people will be able to see how good raw feeding is and maybe try it smile.gif I'm still learning actually biggrin.gif

You can actually rinse the blood off first before giving it to your dog. If you feel she is messy after eating, can take the baby wipes to wipe off the 'water' from her paws and mouth smile.gif That's what I do with Scottie..he is quite a careful eater. Never uses his paws to eat, so I only need to clean his beard after eating smile.gif
n3sbaby
post Feb 11 2009, 12:16 PM

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my dog is a HE...lolx...
i am very sure he going to use his paws if i give him bigger piece!!!
imagine all the white fur of his front legs with "blood water"....i will pengsan XD
Rayne
post Feb 11 2009, 12:19 PM

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Oops..my bad! LOL! He looks like a SHE in your avatar...tongue.gif

LOL! If got water, then wipe lo, or like you said...feed frozen also can smile.gif Then he won't just gulp down the food smile.gif
bluepuppygirl
post Feb 11 2009, 12:30 PM

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QUOTE(n3sbaby @ Feb 11 2009, 01:16 PM)
my dog is a HE...lolx...
i am very sure he going to use his paws if i give him bigger piece!!!
imagine all the white fur of his front legs with "blood water"....i will pengsan XD
*
My shih tzu doesn't use her paws to eat raw chicken, if the piece is too big, she use her jaws to sort of fling it left and right while chewing.

Ya, the drawbacks of raw feeding is usually the mess. If I didn't tie up dog up during feeding, sure she walk here and there carrying the meat in her mouth. Once she even brought the meat indoors and left it on the floor. Ended up I needed to mop the floor. So now I tie her up and spread newspapers on the floor. After eating, wipe her mouth down with damp paper towels and clean the eating area with mild detergent.
dongdong86
post Feb 11 2009, 12:39 PM

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QUOTE(Rayne @ Feb 11 2009, 09:11 AM)
I beg to differ. I feed Scottie wings and drumsticks all the time with no problems. But I do add additional meat when I'm feeding wings coz wings by itself are too boney and too much bone can make the stools crumbly. If a person is just starting out however, it's a good idea to start with easy bone-in parts, like breast and keels. After they're used to it, just start feeding the other parts of the chicken. smile.gif
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yup especially drumstick bone is very hard to chew for beginners, and it is harder to digest. so it risks the dogs. My BARF never add these parts.
QUOTE(n3sbaby @ Feb 11 2009, 09:51 AM)
hmm....i just thought chicken wing is good as I just started to feed my baby raw...
*
haha, chicken wings is nice for human but not necessarily puppies tongue.gif


JyEn
post Feb 11 2009, 12:50 PM

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hehehe
Rayne
post Feb 11 2009, 12:55 PM

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QUOTE(bluepuppygirl @ Feb 11 2009, 12:30 PM)
My shih tzu doesn't use her paws to eat raw chicken, if the piece is too big, she use her jaws to sort of fling it left and right while chewing.
Hehe...it sounds like Kenji's way of eating (fling left to right), but he sometimes use paws to hold down the food while he tears the meat apart smile.gif Scottie mostly just chews and chews until he can swallow...he's a good chewer. biggrin.gif


Added on February 11, 2009, 1:03 pm
QUOTE(dongdong86 @ Feb 11 2009, 12:39 PM)
yup especially drumstick bone is very hard to chew for beginners, and it is harder to digest. so it risks the dogs. My BARF never add these parts.
I think it depends on the size of the dog lo, IMO. If the dog is a big dog (like Golden Retriever, etc), drumsticks shouldn't be a problem...in fact, it could be too small for it! But for smaller breeds, yes, it can be a bit hard. Some people in the group smash the bones with a hammer to make it easier for the dogs to chew. smile.gif

For Scottie's first raw meal, I gave him a drumstick...smile.gif He ate it fine(but slower than when he ate kibble), and when he pooped, no bits of bone in the poop...probably coz he really chewed the bone up while eating.

This post has been edited by Rayne: Feb 11 2009, 01:03 PM
dongdong86
post Feb 11 2009, 01:23 PM

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QUOTE(Rayne @ Feb 11 2009, 12:55 PM)
Hehe...it sounds like Kenji's way of eating (fling left to right), but he sometimes use paws to hold down the food while he tears the meat apart smile.gif Scottie mostly just chews and chews until he can swallow...he's a good chewer. biggrin.gif


Added on February 11, 2009, 1:03 pm

I think it depends on the size of the dog lo, IMO. If the dog is a big dog (like Golden Retriever, etc), drumsticks shouldn't be a problem...in fact, it could be too small for it! But for smaller breeds, yes, it can be a bit hard. Some people in the group smash the bones with a hammer to make it easier for the dogs to chew. smile.gif

For Scottie's first raw meal, I gave him a drumstick...smile.gif He ate it fine(but slower than when he ate kibble), and when he pooped, no bits of bone in the poop...probably coz he really chewed the bone up while eating.
*
yaya, i have forgot not every dogs are small breeds tongue.gif
i feed my Golden drumstick, he is ok with it also. My Jack Russell is ok too, but a bit slow. That time my friend's poodle came i dare not feed drumstick, only feed him grinded BARF, coz he often swallow without chewing. All of their poo poo are very nice, in powdery form. sometime i touch it then poo poo become like loosened soil. no bone inside. The Golden even had broken intestine due to his previous owner lack of experience giving it boil bone.

I found drumstick is sharp even after my dog chew it into small pieces. i hope it wont scratch their intestines. But so far no problem.

Another point is drumstick is expensive lah, feed carcass cheaper lah tongue.gif biggrin.gif

Rayne
post Feb 11 2009, 01:31 PM

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QUOTE(dongdong86 @ Feb 11 2009, 01:23 PM)
yaya, i have forgot not every dogs are small breeds tongue.gif
i feed my Golden drumstick, he is ok with it also. My Jack Russell is ok too, but a bit slow. That time my friend's poodle came i dare not feed drumstick, only feed him grinded BARF, coz he often swallow without chewing. All of their poo poo are very nice, in powdery form. sometime i touch it then poo poo become like loosened soil. no bone inside. The Golden even had broken intestine due to his previous owner lack of experience giving it boil bone.

I found drumstick is sharp even after my dog chew it into small pieces. i hope it wont scratch their intestines. But so far no problem.

Another point is drumstick is expensive lah, feed carcass cheaper lah tongue.gif  biggrin.gif
*
Cool...but you have to take care that the poop is powdery, though. That means there is too much bone in the meals already. The stools should be firm but not too hard, a LITTLE bit moist kind...if the dog has loose stools, it could mean too less bones or too much of something(organs / meat), but powdery stools mean there's too much bone ady. Scottie had those stools before (when the poop drops, it crumbles into bits and powder), and then the next two meals or so I would feed him boneless meals and the stools will be back to normal again.

Nope, raw chicken bones won't harm the dog...smile.gif And no, I don't just feed drumsticks...smile.gif I buy a whole chicken and whack it into pieces before feeding. Definitely cheaper than just buying parts of the chicken smile.gif

This post has been edited by Rayne: Feb 11 2009, 01:34 PM
JyEn
post Feb 11 2009, 01:33 PM

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QUOTE(White Palace @ Nov 26 2008, 12:54 AM)
Bones And Raw Food Diet

As per title, besides what most pet owners normally providing their pets - Kibbles. There is another interesting diet for us to discover about - BARF.

Personally, I'd been feeding my dogs on BARF diet for quite some months already. Thanks to my gf, Ying. At first, I was quite reluctant to switch from kibbles to BARF, just as any normal person, I thought that feeding BARF is a troublesome + expensive thing to do. BUT if you were to ask me to switch back to kibbles now, I would say NO!

BARF, also known as Biologically Appropriate Raw Food by Dr Ian Billinghurst - vet who originated the BARF (Evolutionary Nutrition) feeding program worldwide, is an interesting subject to wonder upon. We admire him a lot and gotten a bundle of books written by him to munch about. We share the books among our friends and puppy buyers, trying to find out the best we can provide our dogs.

Well, through out the readings, we do noticed that BARF is not as simple as we imagine. BUT if we are willing to study more and research hard, we will actually able to make our pets healthier, and we do learn a lot on why feeding BARF will makes our pets better off. None of us are nutritionist or experts but we hope that through reading the books from the professionals, we would be able to provide the best for our pets.

Let's put aside the very much details and allow me to express what I'm able to observe as a normal owner. What are the differences after switching from kibbles to BARF.

1) The amount of poo is much lesser, as in very much lesser! Some of you guys might know, I do own quite a substantial amount of dogs. It is a disaster for us to clean up their big pile of poo poo many times a day! After feeding BARF diet, it is incredible. The poo poo size is much smalleer, very less smell, also they only poo once a day! I do believe that this is very much due to the enzymes in raw diets. Enzymes is an agent to help dissolves and digests the food and nutritions. During processing, heating and packaging to last for long shelf life, most enzymes in most kibbles are lost. Which means that if we are feeding diet losing the enzymes, what enters the stomach will only FILL the stomach, then most of the food will come out as poo poo! But when feeding BARF, the food and nutrients dissolved and digested appropriately, hence very litttle remaindings will come out as poo poo, also our pets will get healthier since the nutrients are better digested.

2) Water consumption lower, lesser wee wee. Unlike kibbles which are very dry and dogs will always thirsthy and need to drink a substantial amount of water, which makes them wee wee very frequently, BARF diets basically are not heated nor dried, hence the liquid remains. Eating do not make them thirsty, they will drink  as needed.

3) Skin and coat and overall health being improved. We can see a very big different comparing our dogs when they are fed with kibbles and after they are fed with BARF for some time. We do brought back dogs with poor health condition and see obvious improvements. We are also glad to see by providing a suitable diet, our pets skin and coat is actually getting better, inside out!

The purpose of me opening up this thread is to share, i'm happy and satisfied with BARF and wish to share more. I'm not an expert but I do hope to share some of my experience and I believe that there must be many of you guys here are able to share some valuable knowledge with me too! Let's learn together.

But remember, a BARF diet has to be a "COMPLETE" one if we want our pets to be better off. For instance, let say you are feeding only RAW Meat but not with the bones, you will face problem. It is not a simple subject but it is interesting while we learn more! So, if you want something better for your pets, do study hard and drop by here frequently to enganged in our discussion.

Let's just ends here for the first post, and we shall share together for many posts to come.

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agree agree. my zhuzhu only poo once a day now. and less pee. but i still give her kibbles at nite coz she still puppy. morning is barf lo. hehe
n3sbaby
post Feb 11 2009, 02:21 PM

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so maybe after 1 or 2 weeks only i start to give drumstick? meanwhile i may stick to chicken wings and other part....
Rayne
post Feb 11 2009, 02:24 PM

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QUOTE(n3sbaby @ Feb 11 2009, 02:21 PM)
so maybe after 1 or 2 weeks only i start to give drumstick? meanwhile i may stick to chicken wings and other part....
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Sure, or if you're really concerned, just de-bone the drumstick lo smile.gif Not every meal has to have bone...smile.gif
n3sbaby
post Feb 11 2009, 02:36 PM

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QUOTE(Rayne @ Feb 11 2009, 02:24 PM)
Sure, or if you're really concerned, just de-bone the drumstick lo smile.gif Not every meal has to have bone...smile.gif
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ok...got it.... nod.gif

dongdong86
post Feb 12 2009, 12:53 AM

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QUOTE(Rayne @ Feb 11 2009, 01:31 PM)
Cool...but you have to take care that the poop is powdery, though. That means there is too much bone in the meals already. The stools should be firm but not too hard, a LITTLE bit moist kind...if the dog has loose stools, it could mean too less bones or too much of something(organs / meat), but powdery stools mean there's too much bone ady. Scottie had those stools before (when the poop drops, it crumbles into bits and powder), and then the next two meals or so I would feed him boneless meals and the stools will be back to normal again.

Nope, raw chicken bones won't harm the dog...smile.gif And no, I don't just feed drumsticks...smile.gif I buy a whole chicken and whack it into pieces before feeding. Definitely cheaper than just buying parts of the chicken smile.gif
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Oh thx for the info, i have to observe again. My Golden's poop is more powdery, but JRT poop is like you said, firm and not too hard. both dogs eat same recipes of BARF blink.gif

Maybe their digestion difference? blink.gif
Rayne
post Feb 12 2009, 08:53 AM

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QUOTE(dongdong86 @ Feb 12 2009, 12:53 AM)
Oh thx for the info, i have to observe again. My Golden's poop is more powdery, but JRT poop is like you said, firm and not too hard. both dogs eat same recipes of BARF blink.gif

Maybe their digestion difference? blink.gif
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If they're taking the same recipe, and the JRT's stool is normal, it's probably okay for your JRT, but too much bone for your Golden, but it's quite a funny thing lo coz Golden is bigger sized than the JRT. smile.gif Percentages of the thing is different for dogs of different weights, but we would also need to monitor our dogs. smile.gif Would your Golden be a puppy or a senior citizen? If so, they don't really need that much bone compared to the adults. Or it could be just that your Golden doesn't require that much bone...Reduce a bit of bone for your Golden lo...or can feed some meals that are boneless. Not every meal has to have bone...it's 'Balance Over Time' smile.gif

This post has been edited by Rayne: Feb 12 2009, 09:35 AM
n3sbaby
post Feb 17 2009, 10:38 AM

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I just fully switch raw for my dog since last weekend...last 2 days he vomit out green pile....this morning he vomit out yellow pile with a little bit of bones as well....is it coz of too much bones? but during weekend i only gave meat without bones....
TSWhite Palace
post Feb 27 2009, 02:56 PM

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Extracted from one of the post of Rayne:

"9. Some newbie dogs vomit or poop bone bits. There is an adjustment
period, so you want some bone in most meals at first, but too much bone may
not be digested and the dog will just hork it up or poop it out.

NPs, its just the dog's way of saying "Too much right now, no thanks."

10. Some dogs will get the Bile Vomits or Bone Bits Bile Vomits (BV or BBBV)
when new to raw simply because their schedules or routines of eating have
been changed.

When a dog adjusts to raw, his gastric 'juices' become much more acid, to
better digest the raw meat and bone. If he's expecting a meal at a certain
time, the juices start flowing in anticipation of getting a meal. When the
meal doesn't happen, the dog often will hork up the yellowish, foamyish
bile, with or without bones.

Sometimes they hork up BBBV because raw digests faster than kibble, the
tummy is empty, so it must be time to eat. NP for the dog, he's gotten rid
of the irritation. He may react as if he feels bad, just because you are
upset that he did it on your new comforter, or on the white carpet."

P/S: My ability to extract this post proves that i'm very hardworking guy, read every single post here. rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by White Palace: Feb 27 2009, 03:19 PM
n3sbaby
post Feb 27 2009, 05:20 PM

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yes you are and I am not...haha....
but now my boy is really allergy to chicken....so i got to stop for a while sad.gif
Rayne
post Feb 27 2009, 08:28 PM

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You don't really have to stop Agnes. Just give him other sources of meat if you feel he is allergic to chicken. Can feed duck, pork, lamb, mutton, buffalo, beef, quail, venison, rabbit, fish, etc etc smile.gif But stick to one source first for a while so that he can adjust, the only add variety. For example, if you want to feed pork as a staple, give him pork for at least a week or so before adding other meat. By then, the allergic reactions to chicken should have gone down a little...if not, then it might not be the chicken that's causing it. Might need a visit to the vet to check.
daylight_dancer
post Feb 27 2009, 10:20 PM

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I feed my dogs raw chicken, liver & bones with boiled carrot, a little yogurt, some rice and very little canned meat.

They love it man. lol.

And yes, it does make their fur nicer! My oldest dog is 15 and her eyes also became better after switching diets.

I mean got la, they do get kibble sometimes, when I haven't had time to go get the meat, but most of the time they don't eat kibble anymore.
TSWhite Palace
post Feb 28 2009, 10:53 AM

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QUOTE(n3sbaby @ Feb 27 2009, 05:20 PM)
yes you are and I am not...haha....
but now my boy is really allergy to chicken....so i got to stop for a while sad.gif
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Where do you get your chicken from?
n3sbaby
post Feb 28 2009, 09:50 PM

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I bought from Giant~~~
TSWhite Palace
post Mar 1 2009, 12:50 PM

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I'm wondering, does it makes a different for our dogs, for those chicken with brands / without brands sold at hypermarket? Since those with "brands" seems to position themselves as a better ones.
Rayne
post Mar 1 2009, 01:07 PM

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Got difference wan meh? To me, chicken is chicken I guess...unless the chicken is enhanced, like they put seasonings/extras into the chicken, it should be the same I think. The group I joined also have some members who face the same problems(dogs allergic to chicken), but after a while they notice that it's mostly cooked or enhanced chicken that the dogs were allergic to. Check the packaging of the chicken that we buy...it should not have any additives/enhancement thingys on it. But I think in Malaysia, we don't really have enhanced chicken like the US...most of the chickens we buy are fresh ma. If the dog is also allergic to raw chicken as well, then we just switch to other meats as staple lo...no biggie smile.gif

Chicken is not a must...in fact, in the raw diet, we should feed more red meats (beef, lamb, mutton, venison, etc) compared to white meats like chicken. smile.gif
TSWhite Palace
post Mar 2 2009, 02:56 AM

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I'm not sure whether is there any difference, coz certain packaging got written stuffs like "no hormons, no antibiotic" something like that.
bluepuppygirl
post Mar 11 2009, 02:08 PM

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QUOTE(White Palace @ Mar 2 2009, 03:56 AM)
I'm not sure whether is there any difference, coz certain packaging got written stuffs like "no hormons, no antibiotic" something like that.
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Organic chicken will always be better than those non-organic chicken, but the price for O. vs non-O is somewhat ridiculous. Of course, if money is not an issue, organic/free-range meat will always be first choice.

As raw meat makes up the bulk of BARF-fed dogs' diet, it's probably wise to take into consideration the amount of antibiotics/hormones in raw meat they ingest.

For me, I feed "normal" meat... the unbranded type I get from supermarkets or wet markets simply because it's not cost effective for me to buy organic. Heck, I don't even buy organic meat for myself!

Also, has anyone thought whether it is better to feed raw "unpremium" meat (non-organic) over 6-star kibble (grain-free, made from wholesome organic ingredients)? Just curious.


Added on March 11, 2009, 2:14 pm
QUOTE(Rayne @ Mar 1 2009, 02:07 PM)
Got difference wan meh? To me, chicken is chicken I guess...unless the chicken is enhanced, like they put seasonings/extras into the chicken, it should be the same I think. The group I joined also have some members who face the same problems(dogs allergic to chicken), but after a while they notice that it's mostly cooked or enhanced chicken that the dogs were allergic to. Check the packaging of the chicken that we buy...it should not have any additives/enhancement thingys on it. But I think in Malaysia, we don't really have enhanced chicken like the US...most of the chickens we buy are fresh ma. If the dog is also allergic to raw chicken as well, then we just switch to other meats as staple lo...no biggie smile.gif

Chicken is not a must...in fact, in the raw diet, we should feed more red meats (beef, lamb, mutton, venison, etc) compared to white meats like chicken. smile.gif
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Oh really? I didn't know that we should feed more red meat than white meat! Very interesting, will do more research on this.

My shih tzu gets raw chicken most of the time, because it's cheaper and less stinky (IMHO) than other meats. She gets pork once in awhile but chicken makes up the bulk of her diet. No allergies so far, thank goodness.

Btw, I have not seen "enhanced" raw meat before... eggs got lah... enhanced with omega and selenium and zero cholesterol... sounds slightly freaky to me. Eggs should just be... eggs. LOL.

This post has been edited by bluepuppygirl: Mar 11 2009, 02:14 PM
Rayne
post Mar 11 2009, 02:31 PM

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QUOTE(bluepuppygirl @ Mar 11 2009, 02:08 PM)
Organic chicken will always be better than those non-organic chicken, but the price for O. vs non-O is somewhat ridiculous. Of course, if money is not an issue, organic/free-range meat will always be first choice.

As raw meat makes up the bulk of BARF-fed dogs' diet, it's probably wise to take into consideration the amount of antibiotics/hormones in raw meat they ingest.

For me, I feed "normal" meat... the unbranded type I get from supermarkets or wet markets simply because it's not  cost effective for me to buy organic. Heck, I don't even buy organic meat for myself!

Also, has anyone thought whether it is better to feed raw "unpremium" meat (non-organic) over 6-star kibble (grain-free, made from wholesome organic ingredients)? Just curious.


Added on March 11, 2009, 2:14 pm
Oh really? I didn't know that we should feed more red meat than white meat! Very interesting, will do more research on this.

My shih tzu gets raw chicken most of the time, because it's cheaper and less stinky (IMHO) than other meats. She gets pork once in awhile but chicken makes up the bulk of her diet. No allergies so far, thank goodness.

Btw, I have not seen "enhanced" raw meat before... eggs got lah... enhanced with omega and selenium and zero cholesterol... sounds slightly freaky to me. Eggs should just be... eggs. LOL.
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I have yet to see any organic chickens sold near my place, but I have to agree that organic stuff's prices are definitely ludicrous! But yes, free-range / wild meat is the 'prime' choice for raw-fed dogs, though I don't think I can afford that just yet.

Any form of raw meat is still better over kibble, IMO. That's because, organic and grain-free or not, kibbles are always processed and cooked...plus, there WILL always be added preservatives and flavourings, 6 star kibble or otherwise, so I'm sticking to raw smile.gif

Red meat is the more common prey for the wolves...and because we are mimicking the feeding of the wolves, we should definitely feed more red meat. In fact, the ideal form of meat would be feeding venison to our pups, but I have yet to find any affordable venison. sad.gif And because I am not feeding Whole Prey (as in, feeding the whole animal as is...no chopping, plucking, skinning etc) - more towards Frankenprey, variety is important too. So other forms of red meat is necessary. I've also read that too much poultry (the kind that we get from supermarkets and stuff...not the free-range ones) have too much Omega-6 which is not really good. There should be a balance of the ratios in Omega-6 & Omega-3....red meats and fish have considerably better ratios of O-6s & O-3s compared to poultry. Even better ratios would be the free-range, wild or grassfed animals. Will see if I can find that article I read in the raw feeding group smile.gif

This post has been edited by Rayne: Mar 11 2009, 02:36 PM
bluepuppygirl
post Mar 11 2009, 02:39 PM

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QUOTE(Rayne @ Mar 11 2009, 03:31 PM)
I have yet to see any organic chickens sold near my place, but I have to agree that organic stuff's prices are definitely ludicrous! But yes, free-range / wild meat is the 'prime' choice for raw-fed dogs, though I don't think I can afford that just yet.

Any form of raw meat is still better over kibble, IMO. That's because, organic and grain-free or not, kibbles are always processed and cooked...plus, there WILL always be added preservatives and flavourings, 6 star kibble or otherwise, so I'm sticking to raw smile.gif

Red meat is the more common prey for the wolves...and because we are mimicking the feeding of the wolves, we should definitely feed more red meat. In fact, the ideal form of meat would be feeding venison to our pups, but I have yet to find any affordable venison. sad.gif And because I am not feeding Whole Prey (as in, feeding the whole animal as is...no chopping, plucking, skinning etc) - more towards Frankenprey, variety is important too. So other forms of red meat is necessary. I've also read that too much poultry (the kind that we get from supermarkets and stuff...not the free-range ones) have too much Omega-6 which is not really good. There should be a balance of the ratios in Omega-6 & Omega-3....red meats and fish have considerably better ratios of O-6s & O-3s compared to poultry. Will see if I can find that article I read in the raw feeding group smile.gif
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Ohhhhhh I get it now. Uhm, dunno if this a dumb question or not, but can chicken liver be a substitute for red meat?

I've seen venison being sold in the local hypermarket, but is is expensive. Even the scraps/spare parts are expensive! I think beef is probably the most cost-friendly red meat out there... is it? Not the premium NZ air-flown type, I was thinking more of the local wet-market variety smile.gif

I'm not too familiar with beef because previously growing up in Buddhist family, we never had beef at home.. only Bovril. Lamb, yes, once in awhile... but not beef. Until now when buying raw meat for the dogs, I never once stop by the beef section. Hmm.


Added on March 11, 2009, 2:45 pmBtw, when I'm too lazy to prepare raw meat for my dog's brekkie, I give her a hard-boiled egg. That happens maybe twice a week. Does anyone else do that?

I know prey-model advocates feeding raw eggs... shell and all, but I worry about biotin-deficiency when feeding raw egg whites, and I'm not that hardworking to separate the white and the yolk, then cook the white and add to the raw yolk etc.

I love that eggs are an excellent protein source for dogs. In addition, eggs are very dense and filling.. one egg actually goes a long way, even for humans! smile.gif

This post has been edited by bluepuppygirl: Mar 11 2009, 02:46 PM
Rayne
post Mar 11 2009, 02:59 PM

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QUOTE(bluepuppygirl @ Mar 11 2009, 02:39 PM)
Ohhhhhh I get it now. Uhm, dunno if this a dumb question or not, but can chicken liver be a substitute for red meat?

I've seen venison being sold in the local hypermarket, but is is expensive. Even the scraps/spare parts are expensive! I think beef is probably the most cost-friendly red meat out there... is it? Not the premium NZ air-flown type, I was thinking more of the local wet-market variety smile.gif

I'm not too familiar with beef because previously growing up in Buddhist family, we never had beef at home.. only Bovril. Lamb, yes, once in awhile... but not beef. Until now when buying raw meat for the dogs, I never once stop by the beef section. Hmm.


Added on March 11, 2009, 2:45 pmBtw, when I'm too lazy to prepare raw meat for my dog's brekkie, I give her a hard-boiled egg. That happens maybe twice a week. Does anyone else do that?

I know prey-model advocates feeding raw eggs... shell and all, but I worry about biotin-deficiency when feeding raw egg whites, and I'm not that hardworking to separate the white and the yolk, then cook the white and add to the raw yolk etc.

I love that eggs are an excellent protein source for dogs. In addition, eggs are very dense and filling.. one egg actually goes a long way, even for humans! smile.gif
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No, chicken liver is considered as an organ, so it's not a substitute for red meat...you CAN however, feed beef or pork hearts as red meat. Though the heart is an organ, it is full of muscle, so it is considered as meaty meat. Same goes for the chicken gizzards. smile.gif

I feed a lot of buffalo to Scottie too...that is sometimes cheaper than even the local beef being sold. I'm hoping the beef or goat that we get here are grassfed, coz grassfed ungulates have good ratio of O-6 & O-3s...the same can't be said if the cows, goats or chickens are fed with corn and what not though. I guess we'll never really know right, since we don't know actual farmers. hmm.gif

I've tried feeding raw eggs to Scottie, but he doesn't really seem to like it...LOL! Nah, the biotin thingy is not really a big issue. For the biotin deficiency to work,you would have to feed more than one egg a day (if I remember correctly,it was in the ranges of 10-20 eggs per day!). Plus, feeding the egg yolks and whites together will lower the biotin deficiency thingy. smile.gif No worries feeding raw egg, though it's not really an important thing, if I may say so. Eggs are more like a bonus thing I guess...
bluepuppygirl
post Mar 11 2009, 03:08 PM

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QUOTE(Rayne @ Mar 11 2009, 03:59 PM)
No, chicken liver is considered as an organ, so it's not a substitute for red meat...you CAN however, feed beef or pork hearts as red meat. Though the heart is an organ, it is full of muscle, so it is considered as meaty meat. Same goes for the chicken gizzards. smile.gif

I feed a lot of buffalo to Scottie too...that is sometimes cheaper than even the local beef being sold. I'm hoping the beef or goat that we get here are grassfed, coz grassfed ungulates have good ratio of O-6 & O-3s...the same can't be said if the cows, goats or chickens are fed with corn and what not though. I guess we'll never really know right, since we don't know actual farmers.  hmm.gif

I've tried feeding raw eggs to Scottie, but he doesn't really seem to like it...LOL! Nah, the biotin thingy is not really a big issue. For the biotin deficiency to work,you would have to feed more than one egg a day (if I remember correctly,it was in the ranges of 10-20 eggs per day!). Plus, feeding the egg yolks and whites together will lower the biotin deficiency thingy. smile.gif No worries feeding raw egg, though it's not really an important thing, if I may say so. Eggs are more like a bonus thing I guess...
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Hmm did I misread something.. chicken gizzard is considered red meat?

I love feeding chicken gizzard because it's neat (not bloody) and so easy to handle. But as offal goes, chicken liver is definitely a cheaper alternative.

Ah okay, I guess I'll scout around for pork heart (I thought pork's white meat?) or cow heart. I'm a bit sick of feeding chicken liver already.

Really I have never seen buffalo meat before! How much is it per kg, and where do you get it from?
Rayne
post Mar 11 2009, 03:18 PM

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QUOTE(bluepuppygirl @ Mar 11 2009, 03:08 PM)
Hmm did I misread something.. chicken gizzard is considered red meat?

I love feeding chicken gizzard because it's neat (not bloody) and so easy to handle. But as offal goes, chicken liver is definitely a cheaper alternative.

Ah okay, I guess I'll scout around for pork heart (I thought pork's white meat?) or cow heart. I'm a bit sick of feeding chicken liver already.

Really I have never seen buffalo meat before! How much is it per kg, and where do you get it from?
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Well, gizzards are not red meat, but they can be counted as meaty meat...meaning in the 80% of meat for a meal, gizzards would fall into that category. smile.gif Pork is definitely red meat...they're only marketed as 'the OTHER white meat', but they're still red meat. LOL! Careful of feeding too much liver...liver should only be half of the 10% in a meal portion, not a lot actually. smile.gif

I get buffalo meat from supermarkets actually. So far, I've seen them in Giant and Carrefour. The branch I always go to is in Bandar Kinrara Puchong, and they always have it in the same place as the chicken and beef section. Usually they sell them in big blocks of meat. smile.gif The cheapest price that I've got so far was RM8.90 per kg, and that was quite some time ago...sad.gif Nowadays it has gone up to RM11.90 per kg, which is still relatively cheaper than the local beef sold there (RM20 plus per kg!). There's another package of buffalo sold in the frozen sections...can't remember what's the company name, but it has like Jawi words written on it, and says the meat was imported from India. The package is about 900g each, and is usually sold for about RM9 - RM11 per pack. Sometimes if I can't find the big blocks of meat, or those were too pricey, I would get these for Scottie smile.gif

Another cheap source of meat could be wild boar...smile.gif My Mom helps me with that though...she gets it from the wet markets. They are going for about RM8-9 per kg if I'm not mistaken...about half the price of normal pork! smile.gif The only thing I do with wild boar though is I would freeze the meat for a good 2 weeks or so before actually feeding it. This is because I want to kill of the trichnosis (parasite) that MIGHT be in wild boars...it all depends on you I guess, but I tend to be a LITTLE bit paranoid when it comes to things like this, so I would just err on the side of caution smile.gif
bluepuppygirl
post Mar 11 2009, 04:41 PM

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QUOTE(Rayne @ Mar 11 2009, 04:18 PM)
Well, gizzards are not red meat, but they can be counted as meaty meat...meaning in the 80% of meat for a meal, gizzards would fall into that category. smile.gif Pork is definitely red meat...they're only marketed as 'the OTHER white meat', but they're still red meat. LOL! Careful of feeding too much liver...liver should only be half of the 10% in a meal portion, not a lot actually. smile.gif

I get buffalo meat from supermarkets actually. So far, I've seen them in Giant and Carrefour. The branch I always go to is in Bandar Kinrara Puchong, and they always have it in the same place as the chicken and beef section. Usually they sell them in big blocks of meat. smile.gif The cheapest price that I've got so far was RM8.90 per kg, and that was quite some time ago...sad.gif Nowadays it has gone up to RM11.90 per kg, which is still relatively cheaper than the local beef sold there (RM20 plus per kg!). There's another package of buffalo sold in the frozen sections...can't remember what's the company name, but it has like Jawi words written on it, and says the meat was imported from India. The package is about 900g each, and is usually sold for about RM9 - RM11 per pack. Sometimes if I can't find the big blocks of meat, or those were too pricey, I would get these for Scottie smile.gif

Another cheap source of meat could be wild boar...smile.gif My Mom helps me with that though...she gets it from the wet markets. They are going for about RM8-9 per kg if I'm not mistaken...about half the price of normal pork! smile.gif The only thing I do with wild boar though is I would freeze the meat for a good 2 weeks or so before actually feeding it. This is because I want to kill of the trichnosis (parasite) that MIGHT be in wild boars...it all depends on you I guess, but I tend to be a LITTLE bit paranoid when it comes to things like this, so I would just err on the side of caution smile.gif
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Seriously wow.

I never knew wild boar to be cheap... I always thought it's exotic meat = expensive!

I don't think we have buffalo meat in Kuching, probably have to ask around my Malay colleagues or pay a visit to the Malay butcher.

Oh, I just asked my colleague! He told me buffalo meat is easy to find in West M'sia and when he was staying there, he usually use buy buffalo meat to cook curry or rendang for kenduri. But in Sarawak very hard to find.

I think I'll be scouting for pork heart... Thanks for the detailed info! It's great to have a knowledgeable fellow raw-feeder to turn to. smile.gif


Rayne
post Mar 11 2009, 04:49 PM

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OIC...I thought you're staying in West Malaysia too. smile.gif There's always other options...you could feed so many other varieties of meat. I've fed Scottie chicken, duck, pork, beef, lamb, mutton, buffalo, burung puyuh, wild boar, sardines, and salmon too (salmon not too frequently though...too expensive!). If you can find rabbit, turkey, goose, venison, quail or other exotic meats,those can be fed as well! LOL! But I can imagine these to be very expensive...>.<" Still, those are options we could look into...don't have to feed all of them at once, but every now and then if we can find it and it's not burning a hole in our pockets, we still can feed it. smile.gif

Haha...I'm not really that knowledgeable...tongue.gif I have a great raw feeding group that I turn to for answers...since they have more than 14000 members there, most of the questions we tend to ask would have been answered there already, so it's just a matter of searching through their archives and reading the digests that come in the email smile.gif

You can join it too if you want! The link is: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/
bluepuppygirl
post Mar 11 2009, 05:02 PM

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Oh ya.. forgot about burung puyuh!

Will scout for that too... never thought of it. Shouldn't be hard to find since I see people selling fried quail at pasar malam. Maybe ask them where they get their supply from.

Thanks for the group link! Will join that tomorrow... since I have to leave the office now... smile.gif
PinkyShore
post Mar 19 2009, 11:42 AM

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hi all , just to check with you all normally you give how much /portion to your dog? mine is a 2 months+ Schnauzer pups, normally i gave 50gram per meal , 2 meals a day.. but he seem like stil very hungry ..
everytime also eat like no tomorrow hahahaa..
i gave BARF diet as well..so want to check with u all that might have expenrience smile.gif
Rayne
post Mar 19 2009, 12:01 PM

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Well, first things first, you would need to know what is the estimated ideal adult weight for your pup, ie how much would your pup weigh (roughly) when he is bigger. From there, you would need to determine the percentage of how much to feed based on the weight.

For example, Scottie is about 6+kg now (he is going to be 2 years old this year). The ideal weight for a Min Schnauzer is about 5.4 to 6.8 kg (Wikipedia), so I put Scottie's ideal weight as 6kg. From there, I give him 2% of his body weight in amount of food (coz he's still a bit chubby) which is about 120g per day.

For puppies, they should definitely take more than 2% coz they're growing fast. A puppy can be fed up to 4% of the ideal adult weight if the puppy is very active and not too chubby...smile.gif Ultimately, it's up to us as the owners to 'Know Our Dogs' and monitor them constantly. If the pup is chubby, feed less and if he is too skinny, up the amount. Hope that helps!
PinkyShore
post Mar 20 2009, 09:55 AM

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QUOTE(Rayne @ Mar 19 2009, 12:01 PM)
Well, first things first, you would need to know what is the estimated ideal adult weight for your pup, ie how much would your pup weigh (roughly) when he is bigger. From there, you would need to determine the percentage of how much to feed based on the weight.

For example, Scottie is about 6+kg now (he is going to be 2 years old this year). The ideal weight for a Min Schnauzer is about 5.4 to 6.8 kg (Wikipedia), so I put Scottie's ideal weight as 6kg. From there, I give him 2% of his body weight in amount of food (coz he's still a bit chubby) which is about 120g per day.

For puppies, they should definitely take more than 2% coz they're growing fast. A puppy can be fed up to 4% of the ideal adult weight if the puppy is very active and not too chubby...smile.gif Ultimately, it's up to us as the owners to 'Know Our Dogs' and monitor them constantly. If the pup is chubby, feed less and if he is too skinny, up the amount. Hope that helps!
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Thanks Rayne , he is abit chubby , decided to gave him 3 times/day and around 150gram since he is now growing fast. laugh.gif
robbylover89
post Mar 30 2009, 08:00 PM

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hi..do u guys grind all the ingredients together before feeding ur doggy or juz cut into pieces and feed them? I'm thinkin of tryin barf cuz my MS puppy's poo vr smelly..and bad breath oso...
Rayne
post Mar 31 2009, 02:10 PM

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I do not grind anything at all for Scottie...I follow the Prey Model, which does not require any grinding. I posted an article about beginning the Prey Model diet a few pages back, so maybe you can take a look at it and see which model suits you better smile.gif
robbylover89
post Mar 31 2009, 09:52 PM

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QUOTE(Rayne @ Mar 31 2009, 02:10 PM)
I do not grind anything at all for Scottie...I follow the Prey Model, which does not require any grinding. I posted an article about beginning the Prey Model diet a few pages back, so maybe you can take a look at it and see which model suits you better smile.gif
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thanks 4 de info!!
do u think that izzit too young 4 a 2month-old puppy 2 switch his diet to the prey model diet? hmm.gif
Rayne
post Mar 31 2009, 11:00 PM

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QUOTE(robbylover89 @ Mar 31 2009, 09:52 PM)
thanks 4 de info!!
do u think that izzit too young 4 a 2month-old puppy 2 switch his diet to the prey model diet? hmm.gif
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Nope, it's not too young to start at all! In fact, when I had Scottie's pups with me, I also feed them raw as is (meaning with bone on) since they were 7 weeks old smile.gif Easier bones like ribs or keels or backs help them adjust faster. When they're older you can give them harder bones like wings or drumsticks. smile.gif Puppies take to raw easier than adults in my opinion...they adjust really quick and it's a joy to watch them eat and enjoy the food smile.gif


However, I don't think it's necessary to feed bone ALL the time...you would need to monitor your pups to see if their poops are getting crumbly. Too crumbly or powdery indicates too much bone, and you could probably feed them boneless meats for the next one or two meals. For the prey model, bones are only 10% of the amount of food we're feeding, so it's really not much. smile.gif Read up more on the Prey Model first before embarking on it, as you need to know EXACTLY what you are feeding to your pup smile.gif
robbylover89
post Apr 1 2009, 12:08 AM

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QUOTE(Rayne @ Mar 31 2009, 11:00 PM)
Nope, it's not too young to start at all! In fact, when I had Scottie's pups with me, I also feed them raw as is (meaning with bone on) since they were 7 weeks old smile.gif Easier bones like ribs or keels or backs help them adjust faster. When they're older you can give them harder bones like wings or drumsticks. smile.gif Puppies take to raw easier than adults in my opinion...they adjust really quick and it's a joy to watch them eat and enjoy the food smile.gif
However, I don't think it's necessary to feed bone ALL the time...you would need to monitor your pups to see if their poops are getting crumbly. Too crumbly or powdery indicates too much bone, and you could probably feed them boneless meats for the next one or two meals. For the prey model, bones are only 10% of the amount of food we're feeding, so it's really not much. smile.gif Read up more on the Prey Model first before embarking on it, as you need to know EXACTLY what you are feeding to your pup smile.gif
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ok cool!
Thanks alot for all the info..hopefully that my elmo will enjoy his new diet... thumbup.gif
Robey Lim
post Apr 12 2009, 04:42 PM

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Actually where do they get d carbohydrate fr barf diet? Can i add in rice js 4 d sake of carbohydrate? Some said grain products r not suitable 4 dogs....rice belong 2 it rite?? Can potato fit in??

This post has been edited by Robey Lim: Apr 12 2009, 04:44 PM
Rayne
post Apr 12 2009, 08:32 PM

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Errm...not sure about the BARF model, but the Prey Model does not have any form of carbohydrates at all. Dogs don't need (and can't digest) carbohydrates at all, actually. Some are even allergic to any form of grains. Raw potatoes cannot be given too much, as they can be toxic (the 'ears' of raw potatoes are toxic).
Robey Lim
post Apr 12 2009, 10:24 PM

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hmm.gif Hmmm...tats wat i read 2, but wat really confused me is some actually recommend grain puduct such as brown rice...n even my vet asked me bout wat carbohydrate source i fed! rclxub.gif....
Rayne
post Apr 13 2009, 09:15 AM

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I guess it's up to you to decide...but from what I've read, if we are to mimic the diet of wolves in the wild, it doesn't really make sense to feed our dogs grains, as wolves don't have rice cookers in the wild, and they don't really eat grains as is.
crazymouse_yyh
post Apr 14 2009, 09:21 PM

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QUOTE(Robey Lim @ Apr 12 2009, 10:24 PM)
hmm.gif Hmmm...tats wat i read 2, but wat really confused me is some actually recommend grain puduct such as brown rice...n even my vet asked me bout wat carbohydrate source i fed! rclxub.gif....
*
It depends if your dog is allergic or not but there is no need for carbs in their diet. You can like add 1 teaspoon of cooked brown rice. I do that once awhile only. The Barf diet mix I get got veggies and fruits in it for fiber but it is up to you. My dogs do well with prey diet too.

QUOTE(Rayne @ Apr 13 2009, 09:15 AM)
I guess it's up to you to decide...but from what I've read, if we are to mimic the diet of wolves in the wild, it doesn't really make sense to feed our dogs grains, as wolves don't have rice cookers in the wild, and they don't really eat grains as is.
*
Hahahah yah, wolves got no rice cookers. They may take the vegetation in the stomach of the deer or any animal they feed on, that's it I guess.
teddycuddlybear
post Aug 24 2009, 04:33 PM

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Usually in BARF, there is some form of carbohydrates in root vegetables already.
Root vegetables are starchy and sugary, thus providing the essential carbohydrates.
Example is carrots.

It would be easier for them to digest fats and meat for energy. This way they get pure energy. It is good for them to have a certain percentage of fat content in their food. But you gotta make sure its raw. We humans don't eat raw fats cos we can't stand the texture and taste thats why we cook it.
But keep in mind that cooked fats are carcinogenic(cancerous), thus you see quiet a number of dogs in vets suffering from cancer.

You can feed rice. There is no harm in small amount. Just that you will notice the larger amount in terms of stools as rice is not properly digested by their tummies. I know some of my aunts who still add rice to their barf, as they just feel that the furbabies are not getting enough to eat.
Its perfectly normal to think this way.

Anyway a dog's taste in food is very different from human. I can only wonder who tastes the commercially manufactured food and tells the manufacturers if there is not enough chicken or if it needs more taste. I can only pity that person lo.
Fifi2008
post Sep 16 2009, 05:54 PM

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Anyone know where to buy Alfalfa Powder ?
freakfingers12
post Sep 24 2009, 12:26 AM

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Has anyone tried feeding heads? Like pig's head, goat's head?
geraldine.g
post Oct 1 2009, 11:29 PM

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Hi,

I have a 4 mths old pup and am currently feeding her raw for abt 2-3 weeks but I don't seem to notice much enhancement, besides no bad breath & less stool.

She was seriously ill b4 that, not eating, drinking & cud barely sit up. Even vet cudn't find out the real cause besides telling me she's viral infected & be prepared for the worst. Parvo & temper test shown -ve tho. I force fed her with lotsa glucose water to make sure she's hydrated. When she was a lil better, i fed her cooked chicken meat then switched to raw chicken meat when she'd recovered, till now.

she visited vet quite often for different illness, coughing, skin condition swollen eyelid n the last round was mentioned abv.

Recently, I often find mat on her though i brush her everyday. It also cause her lotsa pain when i try to remove matted hair. im not too sure what's considering shed alot, but i constantly find lotsa hair on my shirt n her bed (she's a Westie & suppose to shed lil)

besides that, she often chew her feet and rub her face. her right eyelid get cyst like inflammation again. cud it b due to her constant eye rubbing act?

im not too sure if its food allergy (i only feed her chicken meat & gizzards), but i heard that only happen to pup above 5 mths?

wud appreciate if anyone can advise me what to do on her condition. To me, it seems like feeding raw leads to other problem.

thanks!

This post has been edited by geraldine.g: Oct 1 2009, 11:35 PM
mecharojak
post Oct 1 2009, 11:45 PM

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did you try any red meat and bones?
i don't think you can only feed chicken.
Red meat superior to white meat.

This post has been edited by mecharojak: Oct 1 2009, 11:47 PM
geraldine.g
post Oct 1 2009, 11:56 PM

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QUOTE(mecharojak @ Oct 1 2009, 11:45 PM)
did you try any red meat and bones?
i don't think you can only feed chicken.
Red meat superior to white meat.
*
Nope, only chicken atm.

From my understanding from diff resources over the net, every dog started off with chicken meat for couple of weeks, which is what im doing.

anyway, i can only find lamb or beef from supermarket, which is abt RM22/kg, way above my budget. sad.gif
mecharojak
post Oct 2 2009, 12:05 AM

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TESCO sells australian LAMB shoulders for rm4-5 or so.
For a small dog, that is 2-3 servings.

My Corgi gets tired of her food if i feed her the same thing for more than 4 days. I stock my freezer with a variety of different meats.
geraldine.g
post Oct 2 2009, 12:50 AM

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QUOTE(mecharojak @ Oct 2 2009, 12:05 AM)
TESCO sells australian LAMB shoulders for rm4-5 or so.
For a small dog, that is 2-3 servings.

My Corgi gets tired of her food if i feed her the same thing for more than 4 days. I stock my freezer with a variety of different meats.
*
wont the bone be too hard for a 4 mth pup?
Rayne
post Oct 2 2009, 01:21 AM

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QUOTE(geraldine.g @ Oct 1 2009, 11:29 PM)
Hi,

I have a 4 mths old pup and am currently feeding her raw for abt 2-3 weeks but I don't seem to notice much enhancement, besides no bad breath & less stool.

She was seriously ill b4 that, not eating, drinking & cud barely sit up. Even vet cudn't find out the real cause besides telling me she's viral infected & be prepared for the worst. Parvo & temper test shown -ve tho. I force fed her with lotsa glucose water to make sure she's hydrated. When she was a lil better, i fed her cooked chicken meat then switched to raw chicken meat when she'd recovered, till now.

she visited vet quite often for different illness, coughing, skin condition swollen eyelid n the last round was mentioned abv.

Recently, I often find mat on her though i brush her everyday. It also cause her lotsa pain when i try to remove matted hair. im not too sure what's considering shed alot, but i constantly find lotsa hair on my shirt n her bed (she's a Westie & suppose to shed lil)

besides that, she often chew her feet and rub her face. her right eyelid get cyst like inflammation again. cud it b due to her constant eye rubbing act?

im not too sure if its food allergy (i only feed her chicken meat & gizzards), but i heard that only happen to pup above 5 mths?

wud appreciate if anyone can advise me what to do on her condition. To me, it seems like feeding raw leads to other problem.

thanks!
*
I'd have to say, feeding raw is not a 'cure' like others might think. Yes, it might help a little with some little problems like redness on the skin or itchiness, etc coz that might be because the type of protein our pups are ingesting is not the appropriate ones. When switched to raw, the problems will go away. From what you've described, your pup might be having different problems since coughing, swollen eyelids are not common symptoms of food allergies or what have you. It might be a good idea to maybe consult another vet to find out if there are underlying problems or it might be food allergies. I'm afraid the questions you asked about shedding and eyes might be more for the vet, so it's best to consult them for these medical advises.

If it IS food allergies though, perhaps you an try an elimination diet to find which meats are not suitable for your pup. You've already fed your pup 2-3 weeks of chicken...are her stools good (firm but not crumbly)? If so, you can slowly introduce varieties to her. smile.gif Pups take to raw much faster than adult dogs, but take care not to overdo it too as she's also recovering atm. There are many types of meats you can feed: mutton, lamb, pork, buffalo, fish, quail, squirrel, wild boar, beef, turkey, duck, venison, etc. Look out for sales in the supermarkets. More often than not, you could get good bargains for them..or better yet, buy from wet markets smile.gif I only spend about RM50 - RM70 a month for meats, and it can feed my Scottie (a Min Schnauzer) and Kenji (a Chihuahua) for at least a month...sometimes more if I get good bargains.

Another thing to add is that, you have only fed your pup for 2 - 3 weeks. That's hardly enough time to see much enhancement...if you've noticed she has less bad breath and less stools, that is already an improvement. Raw feeding is not an instant or miracle cure. It's just a better way of feeding our furkids and helping to strengthen their bodies by giving them good and appropriate nutrition.

Re: mutton / lamb bones, please do not feed the weight-bearing bones (ie the leg bones) as they are too dense and are teeth breakers. You do not necessarily have to feed bone all the time, and our dogs don't really need that much bone in their diet anyways. An indicator that you're feeding too much bone is when you notice the stools are crumbly. If so, feed an all meat meal the next time to balance it out..smile.gif There are many types of bones you can feed. I feed Scottie bones from chicken, duck, quail, pork ribs, fish, turkey, and squirrel smile.gif Make sure they are enveloped in meat though smile.gif

One last thing, remember to include some organs in her diet too...raw feeding is not just feeding meat and bones. I don't know if you're feeding the Prey Model or BARF. I follow the Prey Model, and the percentages are about 80% meat, 10% bones and 10% organs. Of the 10% organs, half should be liver, and the rest other organs like kidney, lungs, spleen, etc. Tripe, gizzards and hearts are considered as meats though coz they are mostly muscle. But again, it's more of Balance Over Time...you don't have to feed your pup thte perfect percentages everyday. As long as the percentages even out through the course of time (meaning you've fed mostly meat, some bone and some organs over time), it's good enough. smile.gif

Hope this helps a little!

This post has been edited by Rayne: Oct 2 2009, 01:28 AM
Dcom
post Oct 2 2009, 02:00 AM

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Hi Rayne,

Glad you're back. Thanks for sharing your knowledge on raw. Santa and Minnie has been on raw for 2 months now. So far so good.

My concern now is I have not added other meats. I have tried fish though but both of them are not keen and I ended up giving the fish to stray cats!

As for beef and mutton, do you get the local ones or imported ones? Do I need to freeze them for a week or so before using them? What about pork? Do I need to freeze them for a week or so too?

I have also tried lean pork neck meat and they don't seemed to like it that much and ate just a little.

Now I am just feeding chicken because they only eat that. Would appreciate your advice on how to add other meats or can I just stick to chicken.
Rayne
post Oct 2 2009, 05:11 AM

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QUOTE(Dcom @ Oct 2 2009, 02:00 AM)
Hi Rayne,

Glad you're back. Thanks for sharing your knowledge on raw. Santa and Minnie has been on raw for 2 months now. So far so good.

My concern now is I have not added other meats. I have tried fish though but both of them are not keen and I ended up giving the fish to stray cats!

As for beef and mutton, do you get the local ones or imported ones? Do I need to freeze them for a week or so before using them? What about pork? Do I need to freeze them for a week or so too?

I have also tried lean pork neck meat and they don't seemed to like it that much and ate just a little.

Now I am just feeding chicken because they only eat that. Would appreciate your advice on how to add other meats or can I just stick to chicken.
*
Hi Diana smile.gif Great to hear they're doing very well with raw!

I guess fish is not for every dog. It's not necessary to feed fish if they don't like it, but maybe you can try it again later. Sometimes they change tastes and might like it later. I usually just feed fish that are high in Omega 3's (sardines, salmon) to balance out the Omega 6's from chicken. If your pups don't like fish, you can give them fish body oil (it's the same ones we get from health food stores - capsules) as a supplement to try smile.gif

I've tried both local and imported for mutton. Beef from Australia is too expensive...laugh.gif Local beef also getting quite expensive (I think I've only found bargains for local beef once or twice so far), so I usually get buffalo meat which is cheaper smile.gif I don't really freeze it for a week though. Because I buy quite a lot in one go, sometimes the meat gets frozen for a week or more, but from what I've read in the group, it's not necessary to freeze one week before feeding. Same goes to pork smile.gif I WOULD freeze wild boar meat a little though because of the possibility of trichinosis, but a good friend of mine (who feeds raw too) thinks that wild boars are no different from farm pork. She doesn't freeze her wild boar meat, so I guess it's up to your own preferences smile.gif

When you transition them to other meats, do it like the commercial dog food way. Feed a little of the new meat with most of the meal the meat they're used to. Over the next few days, increase the percentage of the new meat and decrease the 'old' meat until you have successfully fed them a full meal of the new meat. If they don't like the lean pork meat, perhaps you could try lamb or mutton first coz the meat smell much stronger than pork? Or if all else fails, 'tough love', or sear the meat a little first, then gradually decrease amount of searing? If I remember correctly, was it Santa who will have gastric pains? Not very sure how to handle more picky eaters, coz both Scottie and Kenji never gave me any problems when feeding raw :S Hope that helps you a little bit smile.gif


Dcom
post Oct 2 2009, 12:54 PM

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It is Santa that's a picky eater and gastric problem. Somehow or rather she finds things to pick. With raw chicken, she doesn't eat if I don't cut them up in small bite sizes! Maybe we have spoilt her. unsure.gif She can even be picky with treats!! I have never seen any dogs that are picky about treats.

I must say switching them to raw has made feeding much easier. Now I'm feeding both of them twice a day. I've skipped the morning feeding since they do not have the appetite to eat in the morning. And when I feed, whatever's not finished, I just pick them up and put them back into the fridge for the next feeding. I don't weigh out their daily portion anymore. They seem to know when they have enough! Glad that I stumbled upon your post here on "prey model" which is much simpler than BARF. thumbup.gif Once again, thanks for sharing. notworthy.gif
Rayne
post Oct 2 2009, 01:17 PM

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LOL...Santa sure is picky! tongue.gif What about the bones in chicken? Hope she manages to get some of those even when the meat is bite-sized smile.gif

That's great that they know how to self-regulate! As time goes, if you want to make it even more easy, you can follow some of the other raw feeders in the group...they feed bigger meals less frequently. But it also depends if they can take it though...if they're up for bigger meals, feed them a little more in the first meal and decrease the amount in the second meal until they will eat only one meal. smile.gif

Aww..no need to thank me. Just trying to spread the word about raw feeding and its benefits, that's all wink.gif

This post has been edited by Rayne: Oct 2 2009, 01:18 PM
kawa_e
post Oct 3 2009, 06:13 PM

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I have a beagle. She's now 3 years old d. She has itchy chest and belly. We often see her scratching and her belly and chest all inflamed.

Today,she just started with some raw wild boar meat mixed with rice and some chicken gravy. I'll be giving her less rice and gravy day by day. Will this help my dog to accustom to fully raw diet ? What type of meat best to promote skin & coat ? Thanks smile.gif



This post has been edited by kawa_e: Oct 3 2009, 06:17 PM
Rayne
post Oct 4 2009, 01:18 AM

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Hi kawa_e,
As a general 'rule', we don't feed rice or gravy to our dogs in raw feeding. When I switched Scottie, I just switch him straight away from kibbles (ie feed him one meal kibble, the following meals all raw). He never did have any loose poop or transitional problems, and I've been feeding him raw for over a year now. smile.gif No worries in switching straight to raw all the way, but be sure to be well aware about the percentages and not to panic if your dog has loose stools at first. Loose stools are more often than not the cause of not enough bone in her meals...diarrhea is very different from loose stools, so be sure to read more about it smile.gif

All raw meats are good for the skin and coat because they are the correct form of proteins that our dogs are meant to eat. But don't expect to see results instantly. Like I said before in my previous posts, raw feeding is no miracle cure...it takes time to see the benefits. smile.gif

You mentioned that your dog is itchy all over...did you bring her to the vet to check for any cause? It might not all be diet related, so best to check it out too in case it's other things that's causing the itchiness and inflammation smile.gif
freakfingers12
post Oct 4 2009, 10:13 AM

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Uhhh, where do you guys get wild boar meat? Honestly, I've never seen that before.
Rayne
post Oct 4 2009, 02:22 PM

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I get wild boar meat from the wet market. There's one stall in the wet market at Kuchai Lama (Jalan Batu 4 1/2 if you're familiar with that place). They're selling it at about RM10 per kg. You could also have a look out at wet markets to see if there are people selling exotic meats like squirrels, snakes, etc. to ask if they sell wild boar meat too.
geraldine.g
post Oct 5 2009, 06:15 PM

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Rayne, thanks for your advice. My pup just admitted to hospital. Vomiting & diarrhea again, but this time round is worse, she even vomited out the glucose water that I fed her every hour. Blood test result will only be ready by tomorrow. Due to her critical condition, I can only pray & hope for the best.
kawa_e
post Oct 5 2009, 06:43 PM

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QUOTE(Rayne @ Oct 4 2009, 01:18 AM)
Hi kawa_e,
As a general 'rule', we don't feed rice or gravy to our dogs in raw feeding. When I switched Scottie, I just switch him straight away from kibbles (ie feed him one meal kibble, the following meals all raw). He never did have any loose poop or transitional problems, and I've been feeding him raw for over a year now. smile.gif No worries in switching straight to raw all the way, but be sure to be well aware about the percentages and not to panic if your dog has loose stools at first. Loose stools are more often than not the cause of not enough bone in her meals...diarrhea is very different from loose stools, so be sure to read more about it smile.gif

All raw meats are good for the skin and coat because they are the correct form of proteins that our dogs are meant to eat. But don't expect to see results instantly. Like I said before in my previous posts, raw feeding is no miracle cure...it takes time to see the benefits. smile.gif

You mentioned that your dog is itchy all over...did you bring her to the vet to check for any cause? It might not all be diet related, so best to check it out too in case it's other things that's causing the itchiness and inflammation smile.gif
*
Thanks rayne notworthy.gif Fifi is now feeding with half kibble and half raw meat. We feed her twice a day. A v small amount of kibbles in morning and evening a bit of kibbles mixed with one piece of boneless meat (cut to small pieces). Last few days her dinner needed to put gravy but today we didn't put already rclxms.gif I hope few days later no need to put kibbles too.

I havent been monitoring her stools lately. I'll be asking my dad as he's the one scooping her stools and throw it. Haha.

Rayne, icon_question.gif
1. how much do I need to feed my female beagle with raw meat a day ? Twice or once ?
2. We haven't started giving Fifi with bone meat also. Weekend only give or how ? Sorry ya.. I'm v clueless here rclxub.gif

As for Fifi's itchiness, we brought her to see vet and the vet gave her itchy pills,injections and a shampoo to clean only. It did not help at all. I'm guessing it should be diet related hmm.gif
Rayne
post Oct 5 2009, 09:09 PM

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QUOTE(geraldine.g @ Oct 5 2009, 06:15 PM)
Rayne, thanks for your advice. My pup just admitted to hospital. Vomiting & diarrhea again, but this time round is worse, she even vomited out the glucose water that I fed her every hour. Blood test result will only be ready by tomorrow. Due to her critical condition, I can only pray & hope for the best.
*
So sorry to hear about your pup's condition. Hope she'll be better real soon.

QUOTE(kawa_e @ Oct 5 2009, 06:43 PM)
Thanks rayne  notworthy.gif Fifi is now feeding with half kibble and half raw meat. We feed her twice a day. A v small amount of kibbles in morning and evening a bit of kibbles mixed with one piece of boneless meat (cut to small pieces). Last few days her dinner needed to put gravy but today we didn't put already  rclxms.gif I hope few days later no need to put kibbles too.

I havent been monitoring her stools lately. I'll be asking my dad as he's the one scooping her stools and throw it. Haha.

Rayne,  icon_question.gif
1. how much do I need to feed my female beagle with raw meat a day ? Twice or once ?
2. We haven't started giving Fifi with bone meat also. Weekend only give or how ? Sorry ya.. I'm v clueless here rclxub.gif

As for Fifi's itchiness, we brought her to see vet and the vet gave her itchy pills,injections and a shampoo to clean only.  It did not help at all. I'm guessing it should be diet related  hmm.gif
*
I'm very sorry to be blunt, but it sounds like you haven't been reading enough on beginning raw feeding. When we feed raw, it's not about just giving raw meat and that's it. I'm not sure which model you are following, but the BARF model provides some veggie mush along with the meat, bones and offal. The Prey Model (which I follow) doesn't include the veggies. And it's not about just feeding one piece of meat, or just only one kind of meat. Variety, as well as amount and percentages of meat, bone and offal need to be considered too.

I would suggest that you do more reading online or look for reference books about raw feeding and decide which model you would like to follow. I joined a Yahoo group of raw feeders to get advice from and to answer all my doubts and concerns. It's very important that you know exactly what you're feeding and what to expect when raw feeding.

If you would like to know more about the Prey Model, I posted an introductory article on it here: http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=23594536
I have also posted an article on beginning raw feeding (for the Prey Model) here: http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=23620375

Hope that could help you get started on understanding more about raw feeding!
kawa_e
post Oct 6 2009, 10:12 AM

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QUOTE(Rayne @ Oct 5 2009, 09:09 PM)

I'm very sorry to be blunt, but it sounds like you haven't been reading enough on beginning raw feeding. When we feed raw, it's not about just giving raw meat and that's it. I'm not sure which model you are following, but the BARF model provides some veggie mush along with the meat, bones and offal. The Prey Model (which I follow) doesn't include the veggies. And it's not about just feeding one piece of meat, or just only one kind of meat. Variety, as well as amount and percentages of meat, bone and offal need to be considered too.

I would suggest that you do more reading online or look for reference books about raw feeding and decide which model you would like to follow. I joined a Yahoo group of raw feeders to get advice from and to answer all my doubts and concerns. It's very important that you know exactly what you're feeding and what to expect when raw feeding.

If you would like to know more about the Prey Model, I posted an introductory article on it here: http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=23594536
I have also posted an article on beginning raw feeding (for the Prey Model) here: http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=23620375

Hope that could help you get started on understanding more about raw feeding!
*
thanks for the suggested websites! Yes. I have been worrying. I tempted to give Fifi some kibbles if she doesnt eat on the raw.Now I will not do that. I wanted to follow the prey model as it is more approriate for dog smile.gif Thanks. Will try out today. Hopefully Fifi will accept the raw smile.gif

This post has been edited by kawa_e: Oct 6 2009, 10:14 AM
Rayne
post Oct 6 2009, 12:51 PM

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You're most welcome smile.gif Hope Fifi loves her raw meals! smile.gif
Dcom
post Oct 6 2009, 01:22 PM

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QUOTE(Rayne @ Oct 2 2009, 01:17 PM)
LOL...Santa sure is picky! tongue.gif What about the bones in chicken? Hope she manages to get some of those even when the meat is bite-sized smile.gif

That's great that they know how to self-regulate! As time goes, if you want to make it even more easy, you can follow some of the other raw feeders in the group...they feed bigger meals less frequently. But it also depends if they can take it though...if they're up for bigger meals, feed them a little more in the first meal and decrease the amount in the second meal until they will eat only one meal. smile.gif

Aww..no need to thank me. Just trying to spread the word about raw feeding and its benefits, that's all wink.gif
*
Yes, the chicken with bones too that are being cut up. I do away with some bigger bones though. I must say they prefer bones than meat.

I think I would have to stick to 2 meals a day since Santa has gastric. Furthermore, I should say she is a small eater. Though I leave out quite a lot of pieces of chicken for them, Santa knows when she has enough.

Just now I tried beef. Both of them turned away. I seared the beef slightly and after tasting them, they wanted more! biggrin.gif
Rayne
post Oct 6 2009, 01:35 PM

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Haha, guess that's the way for you to introduce new meat for them then wink.gif Once a while, maybe you could give them a bigger piece of chicken with bone to help them chew. Chewing bones help to scale their teeth, and since they self-regulate, over eating won't be a problem smile.gif
lteh9262
post Oct 17 2009, 02:03 PM

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i came across this article when researching about barf diet. i haven't started on my golden yet. http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/barf-myth.html . any comments? my most main concern is exposure
to bacteria and also as this article points out that domestic dogs are NOT the equivalent of wild wolves
as they evolved more than 400,000 yrs apart. ( i think?)
fresh_ideas
post Oct 26 2009, 02:34 AM

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why everything I read about "do not feed to dogs" seems to be useless here... sweat.gif

I thought we shouldn't feed chicken bones? because it might cut the dog when they are chewing/in stomack? (not sure about blended ones, never blend chicken bones before so dunno how small is can get)

I thought we shouldn't feed raw eggs as well?

Do you guys feed lamb/beef/pork with bones or without bones?

What if I give boneless chicken and replace calcium with other food instead?
Rayne
post Oct 26 2009, 09:50 AM

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QUOTE(lteh9262 @ Oct 17 2009, 02:03 PM)
i came across this article when researching about barf diet. i haven't started on my golden yet. http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/barf-myth.html . any comments? my most main concern is exposure
to bacteria and also as this article points out that domestic dogs are NOT the equivalent of wild wolves
as they evolved more than 400,000 yrs apart. ( i think?)
*
There will always be two sides to a coin, as they say. It's really up to you as an owner to decide what is best for your dog. If you feel the best way to feed your furkid is kibbles, there is no reason for you to change it, right? As with all information gleaned from the Internet, we ourselves need to know how to 'filter' through these kinds of misleading information. Although I have no science-y articles or what not to back me up, I have been raw feeding Scottie and Kenji for more than a year. I don't only get my info from the Internet, but also books and fellow raw feeders who've been feeding for a longer time than me. These issues (exposure to bacteria and evolution of dogs from wolves) I think have been discussed time and time again from loads of people...it probably won't do us any good to argue over this either. It's only whether YOU yourself think it (raw feeding) is good or bad. I took the plunge to raw feeding, and have not looked back since...Scottie is doing very well on it, and I have no problems whatsoever with him on raw. My family has not have any illnesses from bacteria, and I didn't have to send Scottie to the vet for almost a year now. Compared to previous experiences, I would have to send Scottie to the vet every few months for something or other. Your call. smile.gif


QUOTE(fresh_ideas @ Oct 26 2009, 02:34 AM)
why everything I read about "do not feed to dogs" seems to be useless here... sweat.gif

I thought we shouldn't feed chicken bones? because it might cut the dog when they are chewing/in stomack? (not sure about blended ones, never blend chicken bones before so dunno how small is can get)

I thought we shouldn't feed raw eggs as well?

Do you guys feed lamb/beef/pork with bones or without bones?

What if I give boneless chicken and replace calcium with other food instead?
*
Same goes to these questions...it's been discussed in previous posts, so go back a few pages to read if you want. smile.gif It's really up to you if you want to feed kibble or raw. Just make sure what you're feeding is balanced, and you're good to go smile.gif
fresh_ideas
post Oct 26 2009, 10:02 AM

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oh yeah, what I know organs also cannot. sweat.gif

QUOTE(Rayne @ Oct 26 2009, 09:50 AM)
Same goes to these questions...it's been discussed in previous posts, so go back a few pages to read if you want. smile.gif It's really up to you if you want to feed kibble or raw. Just make sure what you're feeding is balanced, and you're good to go smile.gif
*
I read through the whole thread I don't remember reading topic about the last four questions. FYI, I am not questioning about raw, I am asking so to know what and what not to feed. Anyway mine is not small breed. sweat.gif

actually most people started this raw thingy recently, as in this few years. So we only can tell the physical thingy, but what about internal? We won't know how their internal organs doing until they started aging. I know there are some people feeding raws for more then 10 years, but it's quite a small ratio compare to now. (small ratio = less obvious medical case when they age)

so how can you prove that organs and chicken bones are really good for dogs? Because there are alot cases where raw chicken bones cut through dogs' mouth/intestines and dogs got some organs failure due to feeding organs.

Again, I am not questiong about feeding raw or comparing raw and kibbles. Just asking what's best and what not in raw.

This post has been edited by fresh_ideas: Oct 26 2009, 10:57 AM
Rayne
post Oct 26 2009, 10:38 AM

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QUOTE(fresh_ideas @ Oct 26 2009, 10:02 AM)
oh yeah, what I know chicken liver also cannot.  sweat.gif
I read through the whole thread I don't remember  reading topic about the last four questions. FYI, I am not questioning about BARF, I am asking so to know what and what not to feed.
*
There is no big 'topic' about these things...it's mostly discussions with the other forumers here. But, FYI:

1) We don't feed COOKED chicken bones. In fact, I don't feed any kind of cooked bones to Scottie or Kenji. What they consume are raw (that includes meat, bones and organs, which includes liver as well). Raw bones are more pliable as opposed to cooked bones. Splintering and cutting through internal organs stuff probably are from cooked bones. I don't feed grinded bones either, because I follow the Prey Model diet which doesn't grind anything. Scottie and Kenji just chew through the bones (enveloped with meat) that I give them, so no issues there.

2) Raw eggs are suitable to eat. You've probably read about raw eggs causing our dogs to be unable to absorb biotin (or something like that), but that amount is very small. You would have to actually feed a large amount of eggs everyday to get to that point. I've fed raw eggs to Scottie before...he doesn't like them as much, and since it's not so much of a requirement to feed eggs, I don't feed them to Scottie which makes my job a bit easier. So, your call smile.gif

3) Lamb/beef/pork bones are way too big for Scottie to consume, so I don't give him those. Best not to feed weight-bearing bones (read: leg bones) of these big animals. They are teeth-breakers. The biggest type of bone I've given to Scottie & Kenji probably would be pork ribs...but I don't feed that to them often either. Scottie & Kenji's sources of bone come from chicken, duck, turkey, fish, pork ribs, quail, and sometimes squirrel. You don't actually have to feed so much bone. I feed about 80% meat, 10% bone and 10% organs through time, so I don't worry so much about giving bones.

4) I have not tried replacing calcium before, so I think you need to read up on how to go about doing that. Like I said before, bones and organs are not the big percentage...meat makes up most of the Prey Model diet. Having said that, we'd still need to feed SOME bones and organs as they are important as well (even though in small proportions). I don't know which model you might be following, but this is what I've learnt from Prey Model feeding.

5) Liver is liver, whether it's from chicken or other sources. They all serve the same purpose in the animal, so what's so different from us feeding chicken liver or pork liver? Liver takes up half of the percentage in organs for the Prey Model (which means from the 10% of organs, I feed 5% liver and the rest are other organs like lung, spleen, kidney, etc)

This post has been edited by Rayne: Oct 26 2009, 10:39 AM
fresh_ideas
post Oct 26 2009, 11:44 AM

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QUOTE(fresh_ideas @ Oct 26 2009, 10:02 AM)
oh yeah, what I know organs also cannot.  sweat.gif
I read through the whole thread I don't remember  reading topic about the last four questions. FYI, I am not questioning about raw, I am asking so to know what and what not to feed. Anyway mine is not small breed.  sweat.gif

actually most people started this raw thingy recently, as in this few years. So we only can tell the physical thingy, but what about internal? We won't know how their internal organs doing until they started aging. I know there are some people feeding raws for more then 10 years, but it's quite a small ratio compare to now. (small ratio = less obvious medical case when they age)

so how can you prove that organs and chicken bones are really good for dogs? Because there are alot cases where raw chicken bones cut through dogs' mouth/intestines and dogs got some organs failure due to feeding organs.

Again, I am not questiong about feeding raw or comparing raw and kibbles. Just asking what's best and what not in raw.
*
bout most of you guys are talking about for small breed... sweat.gif
anyway I didn't mean COOOKED bone, im talking about RAW actually
Rayne
post Oct 26 2009, 12:03 PM

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Raw feeding probably started getting attention here in Malaysia for only a few years, but there have been lots of people who have been feeding raw for way longer than that (I've heard of people doing that for more than 20 years, but they are overseas). None of them had any medical cases from raw feeding as far as I know. And I have known people who feed large breeds raw...all are still alive and kicking if that's what you're asking. Some have lived up to more than 14 years of age, which is quite impressive for me.

How can you really prove that kibbles/canned food/cooked food are good for dogs too? What about diseases caused by feeding kibble? There's always these kinds of questions going around. I personally haven't seen these things (chicken bones cut through intestines and what not) before, so I guess I can't comment much.

You're talking about 'what's best and what's not in raw'...it still feels the same to me. Whether we compare kibbles and raw or not, there will always be two sides to a coin. So my previous point still stands. It's really up to you if you want to feed raw or not. Nobody's forcing you to feed raw to your dog. If you strongly feel that raw is not the way to go for your dog, by all means feed kibbles. We're all just doing what's best for our dogs according to our own understanding. It's not a matter of which side is the best or not...
teaspoon.t
post Oct 26 2009, 01:04 PM

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Since you guys are in this topic n RAW/BARF diet nd the claims on the 'best' commercial pet food.... this is from speaker who will admit that even his (tho holistic and organic) brand of pet food Addiction is not THE BEST FOOD FOR PET but will explain on the benifits of raw food and also on the rotation diet.

Maybe this talk would be of interest to you guys and also do your bit in helping the helpless animals ie animal aid organisation.

The Raw Thruth
Choosing the Right Diet for Your Cat & Dog

Date: Saturday, 31 October 2009

Time: 15:00 - 18:30

Location: Wisma Bentley Music (Above Courts Mammoth/Next to Ikea)

Street: Mutiara Damansara

Town/Country: Petaling Jaya, Malaysia

Explore the evolution of pet food today! This workshop will benefit conscientious pet owners like yourself and gives you the opportunity to examine the science behind pet food nutrition and the great controversy surrounding the benefits of raw diets. There will be door gifts* and prizes.

Participants will be able to purchase Addiction products at special event only prices. If your furkid is an Addiction user, this is an event you will not want to miss for their sakes.Tickets will be sold at the door @ RM 30.00 per pax and ALL ticket sales proceeds will donated to Furry Friends Farm other animal aid organisations. This is a good opportunity to come together as a community to do something for the less fortunate animals.

Guest Speaker: Dr. Jean-Paul

LyDr. Ly is the founder of Addiction Pet Foods, Veterinary Surgeon BVSc (Sydney), Dip. Ed. (Sydney), Dip. Bible Studies, Dip. Clinical Nutrition, Member of Integrative Medical Therapeutics for Anti-Aging and the Founder & Resident Veterinarian at Animal Recovery Veterinary Centre.

Rayne
post Oct 26 2009, 01:39 PM

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Yup, I've already gotten my ticket to the talk. But I am a bit confused about your statements though. First you mentioned that Dr. Ly will talk about the 'benefits of the raw diet', but towards the bottom you mention that 'pet owners like yourself....examine the great controversy surrounding the benefits of raw diets'. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's a little contradicting?
fresh_ideas
post Oct 26 2009, 03:18 PM

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QUOTE(Rayne @ Oct 26 2009, 12:03 PM)
Raw feeding probably started getting attention here in Malaysia for only a few years, but there have been lots of people who have been feeding raw for way longer than that (I've heard of people doing that for more than 20 years, but they are overseas). None of them had any medical cases from raw feeding as far as I know. And I have known people who feed large breeds raw...all are still alive and kicking if that's what you're asking. Some have lived up to more than 14 years of age, which is quite impressive for me.

How can you really prove that kibbles/canned food/cooked food are good for dogs too? What about diseases caused by feeding kibble? There's always these kinds of questions going around. I personally haven't seen these things (chicken bones cut through intestines and what not) before, so I guess I can't comment much.

You're talking about 'what's best and what's not in raw'...it still feels the same to me. Whether we compare kibbles and raw or not, there will always be two sides to a coin. So my previous point still stands. It's really up to you if you want to feed raw or not. Nobody's forcing you to feed raw to your dog. If you strongly feel that raw is not the way to go for your dog, by all means feed kibbles. We're all just doing what's best for our dogs according to our own understanding. It's not a matter of which side is the best or not...
*
again, you see, when I am asking only raw food you got offended and take processed food and compare. for the second time you are telling me "It's really up to you if you want to feed raw or not".

Did I sound like I am defending processed food?

Because I know that processed foods got cause problems that's why I did not mention anything about it!

This post has been edited by fresh_ideas: Oct 26 2009, 03:19 PM
Rayne
post Oct 26 2009, 03:59 PM

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For the record, I never took offense to what you have posted. I guess you construed something entirely different from what I meant when I posted that. Probably one of the bad points of 'talking' virtually tongue.gif

The reason I say that is because I feel that we all always want to pin point something when we are not sure of it. (or maybe it's just me) True, there's no harm in finding out what is the good and bad points about something, but it will never end because there will always be two sides to a topic. That's what I'm trying to say.

The way that you're asking sounded to me like you're trying to find something (I don't know what) that might cause you to NOT feed raw. That's fine with me, but you already said that processed food can caused problems...what more are you hesitating about? The only way you can truly know is to take the plunge yourself. No amount of reading or waiting to listen to other people's opinions will change your mind if you have already set your mind to either feed or not feed raw.

So far, I have not read any scientific papers on whether we can prove raw feeding will be detrimental OR being beneficial to our pets. So, I guess there is no real answer to what you've been asking (whether our dogs' internal organs will be fine after a long feeding). For me, no one can predict the future...I might fall down and die tomorrow, so why over-think things?

I have not said that you are defending processed foods. What I mentioned was that if you feel raw is not the way to go, then you should go with whatever works for you and your dog (kibble being the popular choice). Either way, WE are the ones who feed our dogs, right? What's wrong with my statement of 'It's really up to you'? Ultimately, we as owners determine what, when and how much to feed our pets...so isn't that up to us?
mecharojak
post Oct 26 2009, 05:39 PM

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My dogs dont like to eat the same food for more than 3 days.
Even with food which they like (raw Australian Lamb shoulders from tesco).
I also notice Prey model RAW/Barf can never supply all the nutrients and vitamins that comes with Ultra high quality commercial pet food (Innova EVO).

My conclusion is rotation feeding.
Rotate 2-3days randomly in no particular order of Raw Prey model, BARF, Innova Evo kibble and Addiction Dehydrated RAW.

My furkids seem to be fine so far after 3 weeks of this rotation. No runny stool at all.
Furkids are a 7 months old corgi and a 5 months old yorkshire.

QUOTE(fresh_ideas @ Oct 26 2009, 02:34 AM)
Do you guys feed lamb/beef/pork with bones or without bones?
What if I give boneless chicken and replace calcium with other food instead?
*
I feed them raw meaty bones if i feel my furkids can crush it.
Overdosed calcium can leads to kidney stones.
Bones and marrows are more natural i feel.

This post has been edited by mecharojak: Oct 26 2009, 05:51 PM
freakfingers12
post Oct 26 2009, 05:56 PM

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Would raw egg cause salmonella or watery stools? I've once fed my dog with raw egg and she lau sai.
mecharojak
post Oct 26 2009, 05:57 PM

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QUOTE(freakfingers12 @ Oct 26 2009, 05:56 PM)
Would raw egg cause salmonella or watery stools? I've once fed my dog with raw egg and she lau sai.
*
even i cannot take raw eggs.
Learn from your observation.
If raw lausai, try cooked egg lo.
kawa_e
post Oct 28 2009, 11:37 PM

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been feeding Fifi(beagle) with raw since the day I posted here. More than 3 weeks maybe.

Fifi is more active now however she still shows sign of itching and scratching. Her tail has bald patch(could be fungi or excessive bitting) sad.gif

Been feeding her with raw wild boar/dori fillet and some chicken liver twice a day.
Rayne
post Oct 29 2009, 12:17 AM

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QUOTE(freakfingers12 @ Oct 26 2009, 05:56 PM)
Would raw egg cause salmonella or watery stools? I've once fed my dog with raw egg and she lau sai.
*
Salmonella can be found anywhere...even in kibbles if not handled properly. Raw eggs could cause watery stools if your dog is not used to it. I've fed Scottie raw eggs before, but I didn't feed the egg by itself. I made sure the portion of the food he's used to is bigger than the egg portion so that he didn't get tummy upset. He never did get watery stools. But it's not a big requirement to feed eggs. If your dog can't take raw eggs, you can just omit it or feed it cooked, like what mecharojak suggested smile.gif


QUOTE(kawa_e @ Oct 28 2009, 11:37 PM)
been feeding Fifi(beagle) with raw since the day I posted here. More than 3 weeks maybe.

Fifi is more active now however she still shows sign of itching and scratching. Her tail has bald patch(could be fungi or excessive bitting) sad.gif

Been feeding her with raw wild boar/dori fillet and some chicken liver twice a day.
*
Have you sent Fifi to the vet to check if it is fungi? Is the patch a big one? Kenji got fungal infection on his fur before, and it was not a pretty sight. He shed a lot, but after treatment, he's better now. So, to avoid major shedding, better to go check with a vet.

Since she's doing quite well after 3 weeks on wild boar, perhaps it's time to introduce a new kind of meat. Some bones will help too, coz just feeding all meat meal is not quite enough. You could also introduce other organs slowly too, since she can take liver. You can get stuff like lung, spleen, kidney, pancreas, etc.

This post has been edited by Rayne: Oct 29 2009, 12:20 AM
kawa_e
post Nov 21 2009, 02:51 AM

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QUOTE(Rayne @ Oct 29 2009, 12:17 AM)
Have you sent Fifi to the vet to check if it is fungi? Is the patch a big one? Kenji got fungal infection on his fur before, and it was not a pretty sight. He shed a lot, but after treatment, he's better now. So, to avoid major shedding, better to go check with a vet.

Since she's doing quite well after 3 weeks on wild boar, perhaps it's time to introduce a new kind of meat. Some bones will help too, coz just feeding all meat meal is not quite enough. You could also introduce other organs slowly too, since she can take liver. You can get stuff like lung, spleen, kidney, pancreas, etc.
hi there,
Thanks for ur concern ya. Fifi's doing good now. She is HYPER ACTIVE & SLIMMER now compared to the old kibbles diet Fifi.The fungi thingy is recovering.All the furs are back.I'll be doing extra checking on her tails from now on. Fifi is scratching lesser now. But sometimes she does shed sad.gif Thanks to my dad's fish/crab soup. My dad very stubborn and I need to watch him when he prepares the food for Fifi as he insisted on feeding Fifi himself. He said Fifi wouldnt eat the raw unless with some taste on it. As I told him Fifi shed a lot, he stopped.

Fifi's new favourite diet is chicken neck,chicken liver and dori fish. Her stool is chalky which is not good as she consumes a lot chicken neck. I'm guessing 3-5 necks/half dori fish & 1-2 chicken liver per meal. Can this diet use on Fifi continuously or lacking of red meat ?
My concern is Fifi DISLIKE wild boar meat suddenly sad.gif Is there any suggestion ? How do I make Fifi like wild boar meat again ? Are there any boar parts which are tasty ? My dad can afford up to boar meat but still can buy some organs of pig at market..

This post has been edited by kawa_e: Nov 21 2009, 04:28 PM
freakfingers12
post Nov 29 2009, 12:03 PM

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How do you guys clean up after your dogs eat? I don't cut meat and bones into smaller pieces because the chances of choking is higher, so I give her the whole piece, but she just drags it around everywhere and it attracts flies. I tried spraying with vinegar solution, 1/3 vinegar, 2/3 water but it doesn't work.
Rayne
post Nov 29 2009, 02:55 PM

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QUOTE(kawa_e @ Nov 21 2009, 02:51 AM)
hi there,
Thanks for ur concern ya. Fifi's doing good now. She is HYPER ACTIVE & SLIMMER now compared to the old kibbles diet Fifi.The fungi thingy is recovering.All the furs are back.I'll be doing extra checking on her tails from now on. Fifi is scratching lesser now. But sometimes she does shed sad.gif Thanks to my dad's fish/crab soup. My dad very stubborn and I need to watch him when he prepares the food for Fifi as he insisted on feeding Fifi himself. He said Fifi wouldnt eat the raw unless with some taste on it. As I told him Fifi shed a lot, he stopped.

Fifi's new favourite diet is chicken neck,chicken liver and dori fish. Her stool is chalky which is not good as she consumes a lot chicken neck. I'm guessing 3-5 necks/half dori fish & 1-2 chicken liver per meal. Can this diet use on Fifi continuously or lacking of red meat ?
My concern is Fifi DISLIKE wild boar meat suddenly sad.gif Is there any suggestion ? How do I make Fifi like wild boar meat again ? Are there any boar parts which are tasty ? My dad can afford up to boar meat but still can buy some organs of pig at market..
*
Just chicken necks and some fish I feel is not enough variety, as chicken necks are too bony and has not enough meat. Dory fish is not really what I would feed too, as it does not provide the Omega 3s. I usually only feed fish that has quite a bit of O3s like sardine, mackerel or salmon (salmon VERY rare, coz it's so expensive). If you plan to feed chicken, get the whole chicken and whack it to pieces. It's not that expensive especially if you buy from supermarkets that had sale for chicken. Chalky stool means too much bone. Up the amount of meat and you should see a difference in the stool smile.gif

I would also go down on liver actually...too much liver is not good at all. They only need a LITTLE bit of liver every day...what I would do is to feed a bigger chunk of liver every 4-5 days. 1-2 chicken livers is a bit too much, I think. Organs does not mean just liver. It means also things like lungs, kidney, spleen, pancreas, brain, etc. The percentage to feed this is also VERY little, so go easy on them.

If you feel that Fifi is ready for new variety, you can slowly introduce new meat...smile.gif There are quite a lot of meat that is affordable to feed, especially during sales time. Look out for deals in the papers for hypermarkets. It's not really that expensive if you can get a good deal, and your dog is not a big breed dog smile.gif I usually only spend about RM50 per month for Scottie's food, and more often than not I can get varieties like chicken, lamb, mutton, buffalo, pork, duck, beef, turkey, sardine, wild boar, etc. Of course, RM50 doesn't buy all of that, but I can get at least 2-3 kinds of meat from that list, and I rotate it every month.

If Fifi doesn't like wild boar meat, you don't have to force her to eat it...you can leave it in the freezer and try it again after a while smile.gif Maybe she doesn't like it now, but later she will...smile.gif Or, you could also try searing the meat a little (meaning cook the meat in a drying pan without any oil for a few seconds just to get the smell, but not cook until it's all cooked kind) and offering it to her.


QUOTE(freakfingers12 @ Nov 29 2009, 12:03 PM)
How do you guys clean up after your dogs eat? I don't cut meat and bones into smaller pieces because the chances of choking is higher, so I give her the whole piece, but she just drags it around everywhere and it attracts flies. I tried spraying with vinegar solution, 1/3 vinegar, 2/3 water but it doesn't work.
*
You mean clean the floor, or the dog? For the dog, I just wipe Scottie's beard with baby wipes, but he doesn't drag his food around everywhere, so it's all good. For the floor, I use Germisep to clean the floor. If you are concerned that your dog will dirty the floor, you could use an old piece of cloth or towel and get her to eat only on the cloth / towel. If she tries to bring it away, you bring the food back to the cloth / towel. After the meal, just dump the towel into the washing machine smile.gif
luvdog
post Nov 29 2009, 05:30 PM

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hello,
hv been feeding raw to my gals for almost 1 month. initially dont really like it but now, they just love it!!!

i started off by giving them chicken and blended vege. mostly green veges. I hv read that capsicum and brocolli are good for them too. would like to ask normally how do you all prepare the capsicum and brocolli?just blend them both and mix with chicken?

oh, btw, is garlic powder ok for them?


Added on November 29, 2009, 5:33 pmone more thing...for meat, so far i hv been feeding them chicken. mostly chicken wings or chicken breast cut in small pieces. should be alright? afraid of choking but we really cut into real small piece.

This post has been edited by luvdog: Nov 29 2009, 05:33 PM
crazymouse_yyh
post Nov 29 2009, 10:49 PM

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Yah, blending the veggies and giving it straight is ok. I do that too.

But I think you need to give a more varied diet. Some organ meat, different meats like lamb or beef or even game meat if can find. I'm looking for lamb meat and quail but so far my dogs eat chicken, lamb, mutton and beef. Plus bones from chicken wings and neck. Just bought 2 lamb leg bones for my big dogs to enjoy.
luvdog
post Nov 29 2009, 10:53 PM

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QUOTE(crazymouse_yyh @ Nov 29 2009, 10:49 PM)
Yah, blending the veggies and giving it straight is ok. I do that too.

But I think you need to give a more varied diet. Some organ meat, different meats like lamb or beef or even game meat if can find. I'm looking for lamb meat and quail but so far my dogs eat chicken, lamb, mutton and beef. Plus bones from chicken wings and neck. Just bought 2 lamb leg bones for my big dogs to enjoy.
*
for lamb bones, how do you feed them? just give it to them like dat or you ask the butcher to chop in smaller pieces?
now i am trying to give them beef as well but not sure if they will like it. coz they seem to prefer chicken with bones. but beef with bones seem too big la...
crazymouse_yyh
post Nov 29 2009, 10:57 PM

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Oh, the bones from beef or lamb should never be cut. Coz very hard, I think dangerous if cut to small pieces. Coz my dogs are a boxer and labrador, I just give the whole leg bone, and let them chew only. After they chew till left only the middle part of the bone, then I take it and throw away coz it's dangerous if they try to crack and swallow it. I forgot what my friend told me, if you wanna give lamb or beef bones for them to eat, not chew for fun, then only certain bones can give. I believe tail bone or neck bone, can't remember. My smaller dogs, cavaliers I only let them have chicken bones. 1 likes any meat, salmon also eat. But one is picky, only like chicken but we make him eat a bit of every meat lah. We also give a bit of liver.
luvdog
post Nov 29 2009, 11:25 PM

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QUOTE(crazymouse_yyh @ Nov 29 2009, 10:57 PM)
Oh, the bones from beef or lamb should never be cut. Coz very hard, I think dangerous if cut to small pieces. Coz my dogs are a boxer and labrador, I just give the whole leg bone, and let them chew only. After they chew till left only the middle part of the bone, then I take it and throw away coz it's dangerous if they try to crack and swallow it. I forgot what my friend told me, if you wanna give lamb or beef bones for them to eat, not chew for fun, then only certain bones can give. I believe tail bone or neck bone, can't remember. My smaller dogs, cavaliers I only let them have chicken bones. 1 likes any meat, salmon also eat. But one is picky, only like chicken but we make him eat a bit of every meat lah. We also give a bit of liver.
*
icic...yeah la...i am wondering how my poodle will be able to eat the lamb bone...hahahah..too big for her. i guess chicken bone will be the best for her then...perhaps i will try mince beef....

i used to give her chicken meat. but she seems to prefer chicken meat with bones. not very interested if meat alone. i hope she will be fine with minced beef. planning to buy her capsicum as well. so far have given her 'siew pak choy', celery, apple & carrot. she's ok with the vege & fruits.
Rayne
post Nov 30 2009, 12:27 AM

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QUOTE(crazymouse_yyh @ Nov 29 2009, 10:49 PM)
I'm looking for lamb meat and quail but so far my dogs eat chicken, lamb, mutton and beef. Plus bones from chicken wings and neck. Just bought 2 lamb leg bones for my big dogs to enjoy.
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I usually get my quail meat from Jusco...it's sold frozen. But it's a bit pricey (about RM5 for 2 birds only), so it's not a staple for Scottie. I've heard that some wet markets sell quail too, but it's not as easy to find compared to other meat, so I only feed quail whenever I can find it. smile.gif


Added on November 30, 2009, 12:31 am
QUOTE(luvdog @ Nov 29 2009, 10:53 PM)
for lamb bones, how do you feed them? just give it to them like dat or you ask the butcher to chop in smaller pieces?
now i am trying to give them beef as well but not sure if they will like it. coz they seem to prefer chicken with bones. but beef with bones seem too big la...
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I have a Min. Schnauzer, so I think his size is similar to your Poodle's size...for lamb bones, I don't feed it to Scottie. It's best not to feed the weight-bearing bones of the big animals (which is the leg bones of animals like cows, sheep, goat, deer, etc) because they are too hard, and will cause the teeth to break. Whenever I can find lamb, it's usually the lamb shoulder cuts, so I take away the bone and just feed boneless to Scottie. His source of bone comes from chicken, duck, turkey, quail and fish (but mostly chicken, duck and fish).

This post has been edited by Rayne: Nov 30 2009, 12:31 AM
freakfingers12
post Nov 30 2009, 10:36 AM

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Do you defrost the food before handing them to your pets? Wouldn't defrosting cause bacteria to attack the raw food?
Rayne
post Nov 30 2009, 11:06 AM

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Yes, I do kind of defrost the food for Scottie...what I do is the day before, I take the food out from the freezer and put it in the fridge overnight. When it's feeding time (usually in the evening), I just take it out from the fridge and feed it. I don't really see any problems if there are any bacteria attacking the food...dogs' tummies are quite hardy compared to ours. That's why you can see some dogs foraging through rubbish, or eating contaminated food and still be quite unharmed.
muchan86
post Nov 30 2009, 03:24 PM

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audrey, how u feed bone to ur dogs? I mean normally I will bought chicken neck for my girl... but it really took hard work for me to cut it into pieces o.0 is there anywhere that sell those chicken necks that already in pieces? its been a month I only fed autumn with raw meat without bones as I'm busy preparing my exam n no time to cut the neck bones... trying to find the easier way to feed her bone now as I had finish my exam
Rayne
post Nov 30 2009, 04:25 PM

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Err..I don't feed bone just because I have to feed bone tongue.gif Because I buy whole chickens to keep, I just whack it to pieces and let Scottie eat. Whichever parts have bone, he will have bone for that meal. Sometimes it's boneless meals. The bones that I feed are usually enveloped in a lot of meat, and I feel that Scottie doesn't need that much bone..once he gets too much, his poop gets very crumbly. I used to feed him chicken necks too, but often times the neck is attached to part of the chicken, and not just the neck itself (coz if feed only the neck, it's more bone than meat actually. Same goes for wings).

I think if you want to feed meat with bones, maybe just buy chicken breasts or keels (if you don't want to buy whole chickens), and cut it into smaller pieces for Autumn. Since she's quite small, the breast bones will not be that hard for her to eat, and it's quite enveloped in meat to give her a good workout also smile.gif
luvdog
post Nov 30 2009, 07:15 PM

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QUOTE(Rayne @ Nov 30 2009, 12:27 AM)


Added on November 30, 2009, 12:31 am
I have a Min. Schnauzer, so I think his size is similar to your Poodle's size...for lamb bones, I don't feed it to Scottie. It's best not to feed the weight-bearing bones of the big animals (which is the leg bones of animals like cows, sheep, goat, deer, etc) because they are too hard, and will cause the teeth to break. Whenever I can find lamb, it's usually the lamb shoulder cuts, so I take away the bone and just feed boneless to Scottie. His source of bone comes from chicken, duck, turkey, quail and fish (but mostly chicken, duck and fish).
*
Thanks Audrey. Yeah, i think bones from chicken, duck etc should be sufficient for them. For fish, how do you feed scottie? only the fish meat? is fish bones safe? normally u will feed him with salmon? i thot i hrd from someone that seafood not very good for dogs. dats y until now don really dare to feed them with seafood. is it true ah?


QUOTE(muchan86 @ Nov 30 2009, 03:24 PM)
audrey, how u feed bone to ur dogs? I mean normally I will bought chicken neck for my girl... but it really took hard work for me to cut it into pieces o.0 is there anywhere that sell those chicken necks that already in pieces? its been a month I only fed autumn with raw meat without bones as I'm busy preparing my exam n no time to cut the neck bones... trying to find the easier way to feed her bone now as I had finish my exam
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hello muchan86. normally u can ask the butcher to cut into smaller pieces. dats wat my mum and I do. we'l inform the butcher dat it's a for smaller dogs and ask them to cut into smaller pieces. but u may need to choose those 'not so busy' stall to ask them for such service. smile.gif
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post Nov 30 2009, 07:59 PM

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QUOTE(Rayne @ Nov 30 2009, 12:27 AM)
I usually get my quail meat from Jusco...it's sold frozen. But it's a bit pricey (about RM5 for 2 birds only), so it's not a staple for Scottie. I've heard that some wet markets sell quail too, but it's not as easy to find compared to other meat, so I only feed quail whenever I can find it. smile.gif


Added on November 30, 2009, 12:31 am
I have a Min. Schnauzer, so I think his size is similar to your Poodle's size...for lamb bones, I don't feed it to Scottie. It's best not to feed the weight-bearing bones of the big animals (which is the leg bones of animals like cows, sheep, goat, deer, etc) because they are too hard, and will cause the teeth to break. Whenever I can find lamb, it's usually the lamb shoulder cuts, so I take away the bone and just feed boneless to Scottie. His source of bone comes from chicken, duck, turkey, quail and fish (but mostly chicken, duck and fish).
*
Shoulder cuts? Is it those shoulder chops found frozen at supermarkets? Jusco at wangsa maju no quail..... I saw at Hock Choon but forgot the price and I think it was expensive so I didn't get. I also saw rabbit meat but also expensive. Sigh.....

Turkey bone can give? I thought quite hard. So far my smaller dogs never take any other bones accept chicken. Only my big dogs I let them chew on leg bones but my dad and I watch closely to make sure they don't crack and swallow. I love the way they lick out the marrow.
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post Nov 30 2009, 10:00 PM

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QUOTE(luvdog @ Nov 30 2009, 07:15 PM)
Thanks Audrey. Yeah, i think bones from chicken, duck etc should be sufficient for them. For fish, how do you feed scottie? only the fish meat? is fish bones safe? normally u will feed him with salmon? i thot i hrd from someone that seafood not very good for dogs. dats y until now don really dare to feed them with seafood. is it true ah?
Usually I will feed sardines to Scottie...they are about the only time I can feed Scottie whole. I feed it as is (without de-boning). Scottie has not had problems with it...the fish are usually not that big, and the bones are enveloped with meat, so he just chew chew for a while and swallow. smile.gif Err, I have not heard about seafood not being good for dogs though...but then, fish is only the kind of 'seafood' I feed to Scottie. I only feed fish that are known to have good amounts of O3s, and not other kinds of fish tongue.gif

QUOTE(crazymouse_yyh @ Nov 30 2009, 07:59 PM)
Shoulder cuts? Is it those shoulder chops found frozen at supermarkets? Jusco at wangsa maju no quail..... I saw at Hock Choon but forgot the price and I think it was expensive so I didn't get. I also saw rabbit meat but also expensive. Sigh.....

Turkey bone can give? I thought quite hard. So far my smaller dogs never take any other bones accept chicken. Only my big dogs I let them chew on leg bones but my dad and I watch closely to make sure they don't crack and swallow. I love the way they lick out the marrow.
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Yup, the lamb cuts I usually get are the frozen shoulder cuts. I have on occasion seen quail at the Jusco in Midvalley or Cheras Selatan, but I haven't been to Wangsa Maju, so not too sure about that. Where did you see rabbit being sold? Was thinking of introducing that to Scottie before, but I haven't found it sold nearby my place sad.gif

Usually the bones from turkey that I could find are from drumsticks or wings. I've fed wings to Scottie before with no problems. He crunched through them like chicken...laugh.gif The turkey drumsticks sometimes are cut to pieces...if I feed they are not too sharp, i would just give it to Scottie, but if not...I just remove it. No biggie smile.gif
luvdog
post Nov 30 2009, 10:26 PM

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Thanks Audrey! Now i have more options of food to feed my gals rclxms.gif

oh btw, for vege, besides blending, any other option of preparing for them? and is garlic powder ok for them?
Rayne
post Nov 30 2009, 10:32 PM

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Haha, I feed the Prey Model, so I didn't feed any fruits or veggies to Scottie, except as occasional treats tongue.gif But my partner does veggie blends, and from what I can see, she just blends everything into a pulp. Because dogs can't digest the cellulose walls in fruits and veggies, the only way they can get the most out of it is to eat them already blended.

If you feel it's too mar fan to blend, we do sell just the veggie blend (hehe...promote promote a bit tongue.gif). Click on my siggy (Nature's Way) to check it out wink.gif

I have fed garlic before to Scottie, but it's not very often...I would try to feed most things raw if possible, because I feel that garlic powder might have other additives inside. Except when I'm baking for Scottie...SOMETIMES I would add a teensy bit of garlic powder just to get the smell out. When I used normal garlic to bake, it didn't smell as strong. Haha! tongue.gif

This post has been edited by Rayne: Nov 30 2009, 10:34 PM
teddycuddlybear
post Dec 18 2009, 12:15 PM

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It has come to our attention that one established commercial pet food company is addressing BARF in their Myths and Facts page. We don't know how many more are doing the same though.
This shows that (and in our opinion) raw feeding is catching up in this region and it is impactful enough to their business that they are doing something about it. Bashing/ bad-mouthing something without proof is something not nice to do la.

We wish to highlight them right here.

The following are excepts from a prominent commercial pet food company which has 5 food brands in Malaysia,
P***** O*E, P***** P*O P**N, P***** F***Y F***T, P***** A**O, P***** FR**K**S

Myth 5: BARF (Raw Food) is better than dry food
Fact 5:

Raw food diets
• Usually are not complete and balanced
• Risk of infection and contamination-Salmonella is very dangerous to both pets and humans and can be found in the stools of pets.
• Bones can get stuck in your pets mouth

Our comment: I wish to state here that there is no proof/facts/studies to support this as they have done with their Myth No. 7.

Myth 6: Cooking destroys enzymes and nutrients
Fact 6: Cooking is beneficial.
Cooking:

• Changes the digestibility of nutrients
• Alters structure of amino acids
• Breaks down non-nutritional factors to increase digestibility
• Kills bacteria and parasites

Dogs manufacture their own enzymes needed to digest food and utilize nutrients like protein. Also manufacturers of high quality pet foods maintain safety margins built into formulations. Any nutritional loss in PRO PLAN® during cooking and storage is accounted for and will always be added back to ensure high quality in our pet food.

Our comment: What is the purpose of destroying the naturally occuring nutrients and later adding them back later in the process? To make sure the food is able to be kept for 24-36 months?


Myth 7: Corn causes allergies
Fact 7:
10 different studies, representing 253 dogs
Roundebush, Guilford , Shanely(2000) Adverse Reactions to Food, Small Animal Clinic Nutrition (4th edition)

• Beef, dairy products and wheat account for 65% of all reported cases of food allergies
• Chicken, egg, lamb and soy account for 25% of all reported cases of food allergies
• Only 6 confirmed (2.4%) cases of allergies to corn

Our comment: Representing 253 dogs, ONLY? I think one single pet shop has supplied food to more dogs in a month. I rest my case.


Sourced from: http://www.p*****.com.my/DogCare/caredog_article2.html

This post has been edited by teddycuddlybear: Dec 18 2009, 05:28 PM
yueyi5730
post Dec 18 2009, 10:25 PM

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hello everyone...i'm thinking of introducing barf to my dogs at home...one of my dog a mongrel she is always having itchyness...probably she's allergic to certain food thats what the vet say...
can u guys teach me how to switch her diet?do i gradually add to her food and reduce the old food portion??or do i just serve them straight..
will she like the taste?what if she refuse to eat?
Rayne
post Dec 18 2009, 11:08 PM

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Hi there! Well, for me I just switch Scottie straight away. Meaning today's meal is kibble...tomorrow is full raw smile.gif He took to it very well, and had no problems at all smile.gif It's best to switch cold turkey, because mixing kibbles and raw is not that feasible.

In the beginning of a raw meal, your dog might not be used to it. When Scottie had his first meal, he looked at me like I just gave him some weird thing to eat, but after he chewed on it, he liked it and we never looked back since then smile.gif If your dog hasn't gotten used to eating, you could cut lines into the meat to make it easier for her to bite onto the meat and tear it off smile.gif Some people also use strong smelling food like cheese to make the raw meat more palatable, but I think you should let her try the meat as it is first before doing that. If she really doesn't want to eat, you could try that. smile.gif


yueyi5730
post Dec 18 2009, 11:36 PM

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QUOTE(Rayne @ Dec 18 2009, 11:08 PM)
Hi there! Well, for me I just switch Scottie straight away. Meaning today's meal is kibble...tomorrow is full raw smile.gif He took to it very well, and had no problems at all smile.gif It's best to switch cold turkey, because mixing kibbles and raw is not that feasible.

In the beginning of a raw meal, your dog might not be used to it. When Scottie had his first meal, he looked at me like I just gave him some weird thing to eat, but after he chewed on it, he liked it and we never looked back since then smile.gif If your dog hasn't gotten used to eating, you could cut lines into the meat to make it easier for her to bite onto the meat and tear it off smile.gif Some people also use strong smelling food like cheese to make the raw meat more palatable, but I think you should let her try the meat as it is first before doing that. If she really doesn't want to eat, you could try that. smile.gif
*
ok i will try that...coz i tried many medication to relive her itchyness and just doesn't work..hopefully by giving her barf diet she gets all better..thanks for the info
Rayne
post Dec 18 2009, 11:46 PM

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Well, changing the diet might help with the itchiness if it is caused by the diet..raw feeding is not a miracle cure. It's just a way of feeding the biologically appropriate food for a dog smile.gif And I don't think you can see results in one feeding. It might take a while before you see results, so you have to be patient. If the itchiness still persists though, it could be something else that's making your dog itch. Sometimes it's the environment, like parasites, or cleaners that we use to clean the floor, etc. Hopefully it's the diet, and the itchiness goes away after she was switched to raw smile.gif
kawa_e
post Jan 11 2010, 09:55 AM

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hi hi,

thot this thread went missing after the lyn database server update thingy. Couldnt find it for like days lol..
Anyway, would love to ask some advise on raw diet again for spayed dog. I'm planning to bring Fifi 2 spay after her current cycle.. what should I feed her most that time.. ?very confused here
devil86
post Mar 6 2010, 06:03 PM

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Lol...y tis thread so quiet...? I have a question here..hopefully have kind person answer me...
My min. Schanauzer, Miki, juz took the second vacine by today..can i continue feed the raw food to my miki since she juz took the injection n might not feel well...?
luffy4688
post Mar 6 2010, 07:22 PM

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QUOTE(devil86 @ Mar 6 2010, 06:03 PM)
Lol...y tis thread so quiet...? I have a question here..hopefully have kind person answer me...
My min. Schanauzer, Miki, juz took the second vacine by today..can i continue feed the raw food to my miki since she juz took the injection n might not feel well...?
*
It would be fine to continue feeding raw. Wouldn't affect Miki's health.
devil86
post Mar 26 2010, 04:11 PM

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Hi all, the quatity of BARF raw food i feed to Miki is 10% of her body weight, now my Miki only 1.5kg, so i feed 150g raw food to her daily. But when i bring my Miki to c Vet, the vet say Miki's weight gain so slow, need to eat more....last month Miki weighted 1.3kg, now 1.5kg, gain 0.2kg only doh.gif
Is feeding raw food to a pup will make a pup's weight gain slower? or I really need to feed more to my Miki? rclxub.gif

and can anyone of u give comment on my BARF ingrdient? The following is my ingredient...
- Chicken (chicken rib) 40%
- wild boar + beef + mutton 30%
- 2 eggs + spinach + carrot + red bell pepper + very small portion of garlic and ginger 15%
- beef liver + chicken gizzzard 10%
- papaya + kiwi 5%
- with adding multi vitamin bought from pet shop for each meal....

*I will change some of the ingredients every 3 weeks when i prepare the food.

Finally, i want to thank to Muchan, who recommend me to feed raw to my pup, and Audrey (Rayne) whom i get my 1st BARF raw food and gave me some advises b4, love u all,haha... thumbup.gif

This post has been edited by devil86: Mar 26 2010, 08:00 PM
Rayne
post Mar 26 2010, 08:44 PM

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Just a little thing abt the offals. Gizzards and hearts are not considered as organs because they are full of muscle, so they are mostly fed as meaty meats. Other organs you can get from supermarkets or markets are like lungs, kidneys, spleen, and brain.

Puppies who grow up on raw will actually grow slow and steady, instead of having growth spurts so fast. Too fast of a growth will not be good because the pup wouldn't have enough time to adjust and develop properly. So, no worries about the slow growth. It's normal and ideal actually smile.gif
devil86
post Mar 26 2010, 09:48 PM

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QUOTE(Rayne @ Mar 26 2010, 08:44 PM)
Just a little thing abt the offals. Gizzards and hearts are not considered as organs because they are full of muscle, so they are mostly fed as meaty meats. Other organs you can get from supermarkets or markets are like lungs, kidneys, spleen, and brain.

Puppies who grow up on raw will actually grow slow and steady, instead of having growth spurts so fast. Too fast of a growth will not be good because the pup wouldn't have enough time to adjust and develop properly. So, no worries about the slow growth. It's normal and ideal actually smile.gif
*
thanks for the info, audrey biggrin.gif
i cant find the organ u mentioned at hypermarket when i purchase the materials, thas y i oni buy liver n gizzard...
cphcphcph
post Apr 4 2010, 07:36 PM

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for a 23kg of 10 months golden puppy....how much should feed per day?
Rayne
post Apr 5 2010, 11:00 AM

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For puppies, you could go with 4-10% of their current weight per day, OR you could choose to use 2 - 4% of the IDEAL estimated adult weight (meaning that you have to estimate how much your pup will weigh when he's grown up, and feed 2-4% of that weight every day). These are all estimates though. The key is to always monitor and know your dog. If he/she is getting too chubby, cut down the amount and if too thin, up the amount.

Since 10 months old is still a puppy, I would go with two feedings a day, meaning that you have to take the total amount to feed per day and divide it into 2 meals. Eg: if I am feeding 4% of his current weight, that is about 920g per day. So, one meal is about 460g of food. Hope that helps a little!
devil86
post Apr 5 2010, 11:15 AM

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QUOTE(Rayne @ Apr 5 2010, 11:00 AM)
For puppies, you could go with 4-10% of their current weight per day, OR you could choose to use 2 - 4% of the IDEAL estimated adult weight (meaning that you have to estimate how much your pup will weigh when he's grown up, and feed 2-4% of that weight every day). These are all estimates though. The key is to always monitor and know your dog. If he/she is getting too chubby, cut down the amount and if too thin, up the amount.

Since 10 months old is still a puppy, I would go with two feedings a day, meaning that you have to take the total amount to feed per day and divide it into 2 meals. Eg: if I am feeding 4% of his current weight, that is about 920g per day. So, one meal is about 460g of food. Hope that helps a little!
*
My pup weighted around 1.6kg now n i fed her round 200g food per day..since the vet n groomer oso say she a bit thin..
Rayne
post Apr 5 2010, 11:20 AM

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Yup, definitely. If your pup is still thin, you can just up the amount and stay with that amount until you feel she has gotten to that ideal size. Feel along the sides to get a better gauge instead of relying on weight only. smile.gif
devil86
post Apr 5 2010, 11:28 AM

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I feeding 200g per day still like not enuf for her..seem like her little stomach never feel full.. =="
Rayne
post Apr 5 2010, 11:36 AM

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No, when I meant feel along the sides is not to see whether the stomach feels full or not (if bloated also not really a good sign), but rather to see if your pup is growing the way she should be, by feeling for the ribs...if she is growing well, you would only need to apply a little bit of pressure to feel the ribs. If by just barely touching the sides and you can feel the ribs already (or if the ribs are already very prominent without touching), then she is too thin (and you need to up the amount of food). If you can't feel the ribs at all after applying a little pressure, she is getting chubby (and you need to decrease the amount of food).
devil86
post Apr 5 2010, 12:03 PM

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QUOTE(Rayne @ Apr 5 2010, 11:36 AM)
No, when I meant feel along the sides is not to see whether the stomach feels full or not (if bloated also not really a good sign), but rather to see if your pup is growing the way she should be, by feeling for the ribs...if she is growing well, you would only need to apply a little bit of pressure to feel the ribs. If by just barely touching the sides and you can feel the ribs already (or if the ribs are already very prominent without touching), then she is too thin (and you need to up the amount of food). If you can't feel the ribs at all after applying a little pressure, she is getting chubby (and you need to decrease the amount of food).
*
Then i think my pup was in "too thin" category... ohmy.gif
Rayne
post Apr 5 2010, 12:18 PM

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Is she still active as usual? Playing and eating good? If so, then just up the amount to feed her smile.gif I'm guessing she might just be a bit bigger size when she grows up. I'm guessing this because I follow the estimated ideal adult weight to gauge the amount to feed Scottie. After looking up the breed standards and all, the ideal weight for a Min. Schnauzer is around 6-8kg, so I put it as around 7kg. I feed about 2% of that weight, which is about 140g a day. But, seeing as Scottie is at his best weight (that I liked so far) which is 6.75kg, the amount I feed is around 120g plus or minus depending on the cut meat. So, he's maintained it well smile.gif

For your pup, I think she might be bigger sized as 200g would be the amount to feed an 8kg adult dog. Seeing that one can feed up to 4% of the ideal adult weight (of 8kg, it's around 320g) you could definitely up the amount to that, provided she is still active, playing and eating well smile.gif Just keep adding more (and monitoring constantly) to see how much she can eat and be in an ideal weight smile.gif All these numbers are really just an estimate. Some dogs need more, some need less. I'm guessing your pup is one of them that needs more wink.gif
devil86
post Apr 5 2010, 01:33 PM

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QUOTE(Rayne @ Apr 5 2010, 12:18 PM)
Is she still active as usual? Playing and eating good? If so, then just up the amount to feed her smile.gif I'm guessing she might just be a bit bigger size when she grows up. I'm guessing this because I follow the estimated ideal adult weight to gauge the amount to feed Scottie. After looking up the breed standards and all, the ideal weight for a Min. Schnauzer is around 6-8kg, so I put it as around 7kg. I feed about 2% of that weight, which is about 140g a day. But, seeing as Scottie is at his best weight (that I liked so far) which is 6.75kg, the amount I feed is around 120g plus or minus depending on the cut meat. So, he's maintained it well smile.gif

For your pup, I think she might be bigger sized as 200g would be the amount to feed an 8kg adult dog. Seeing that one can feed up to 4% of the ideal adult weight (of 8kg, it's around 320g) you could definitely up the amount to that, provided she is still active, playing and eating well smile.gif Just keep adding more (and monitoring constantly) to see how much she can eat and be in an ideal weight smile.gif All these numbers are really just an estimate. Some dogs need more, some need less. I'm guessing your pup is one of them that needs more wink.gif
*
Scottie edy adult n oni eat 120g...my 3 months pig Miki eat 200g per day, oh gosh doh.gif She is still very active n eating very well..especially when she c me take her food going to feed her, she will jump like monkey. Mayb i need to maintain the quantity of food at 200g per day to see how is she going 1st...but today she produce loose stool, i duno wat is going on..

This post has been edited by devil86: Apr 5 2010, 01:37 PM
Rayne
post Apr 5 2010, 02:57 PM

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Well, all dogs are sized differently. You can't actually judge how much they eat because they are the same breed. Scottie is kind of small for his age and sex, so that's why he eats less. Quite a few Min. Schnauzers that I see his age are usually bigger than him. Plus, puppies are meant to eat more because they are growing, and so definitely need more food smile.gif You should up the amount until she is older, and then only maintain it at a certain amount to feed.

Loose stools can mean a lot of things...it could be too much food, introducing too many new foods at one time, treats that didn't agree with her, or she picked up something that she shouldn't eat, etc. If she is still active and all, just monitor her and cut down on all treats. She should be fine in a couple of days smile.gif
devil86
post Apr 5 2010, 03:05 PM

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QUOTE(Rayne @ Apr 5 2010, 02:57 PM)
Well, all dogs are sized differently. You can't actually judge how much they eat because they are the same breed. Scottie is kind of small for his age and sex, so that's why he eats less. Quite a few Min. Schnauzers that I see his age are usually bigger than him. Plus, puppies are meant to eat more because they are growing, and so definitely need more food smile.gif You should up the amount until she is older, and then only maintain it at a certain amount to feed.

Loose stools can mean a lot of things...it could be too much food, introducing too many new foods at one time, treats that didn't agree with her, or she picked up something that she shouldn't eat, etc. If she is still active and all, just monitor her and cut down on all treats. She should be fine in a couple of days smile.gif
*
Erm, really thanks for ur advice, Audrey smile.gif
I think Miki oso will feel thanksful to u coz u gv lot of useful opinion to her owner =P
Rayne
post Apr 5 2010, 03:10 PM

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No worries, we all are still learning also, so help each other out lo smile.gif
Chinchillas
post Apr 16 2010, 08:30 PM

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Hi Guys, i accidently browse through this website of Purina Malaysia, I wondering, do your agreed with the "information Cum Education". Your have a look. --> http://purina.com.my/DogCare/caredog_article2.html I know dog have ability to withdraw nutrient from grain, vege, cooked meat, etc.

This post has been edited by Chinchillas: Apr 16 2010, 08:48 PM
Miko_Chan
post Jul 1 2010, 05:01 PM

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QUOTE(shayne @ Nov 27 2008, 06:56 PM)
i wan to share my Barf feeding experience here. I have a toy poodle name Ice. her bad breath was gone after 2 weeks of Barf feeding. her poo become lesser and less smelly too. Ice was having sensitive stomach and poor digestive system during her kibbles' time, but now, she is very healthy and guess wat, her skin & coat condition become better too.

i started with a bit bit of vege mixed with kibbles, then slowly add in some raw chicken breast meat with kibbles & vege. after 2 weeks, i just change her food to a total BARF - drumstick with bones+egg+a bit bit of vege+supplement powder. my Ice seems to adapt very well with her new diet and now, i hav bought her more variety of meat, she is having chicken, beef & lamb on rotating.

to share 1 of my very simple Barf menu for 1 meal:-

chicken - grinded with bones
a small slices of beef tenderloin
1 baby carrot
a bit bit of alfafa sprout
apple slice 1 cm
1 spoon of natural yogurt
egg
+supplement
*
I'm having maltese... I wan his coat to be more healthy n shiny... Healthy skin lar...
Hot spots, and itching and scratching......... gone
What menu can i prepare??
Affordable one la...
And why i c u all say put in refrigerator?
The food not cooked one ar? Feed raw?
I prefer cooked food for my dog...

Grind chicken breast, carrots and rice mix all together okay?
How do i cook them? Boiled? Steam? Cook with olive oil?
Or what??
I know nothing... =(

This post has been edited by Miko_Chan: Jul 1 2010, 05:06 PM
Rayne
post Jul 1 2010, 05:33 PM

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Umm...I think you're asking in the wrong thread here. If you notice, BARF = Bones and Raw Food so yes we are all feeding raw to our furkids. No cooking whatsoever. If you're looking at cooking for your furkid, I would suggest reading up more about it as well because cooking is definitely different from feeding raw as cooking changes the protein structures in the meat.
^4ever_Fan+a5y^
post Jul 2 2010, 02:26 PM

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Dear all BARF feeders here, i owned a 6 months min.schnauzer and she is around 4kg now (is she underweight?),may i know that should i feed my pup 400g of raw food per day (400g per day like too much for me)?i'm feeding her 200g per day now...
Rayne
post Jul 2 2010, 02:48 PM

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Umm...feeding 400g when your pup is only 4kg would mean you're feeding her 10% of her body weight everyday O.O" That's a bit too much, in my opinion. At 6 months, she is young, but not THAT young anymore, if you get what I mean. If you need to up the amount from 200g, do it slowly in small increments (10g maybe?) instead of going up double like that.

For me, I feed Scottie (a Min. Schnauzer too) about 120 - 150g a day only, and he's about 6-7kg of weight now. Granted, he's already 3 years old, but even for his puppies, I actually go with the formula of 2% of the breed's ideal weight (which is around that weight also) and monitor as I feed. Feeling the dog's sides will help you get some gauge also whether she is underweight or overweight. If the pup is underweight, I just up the amount by about 10-20g first for a few days and go on from there.

Again, this is all by estimation...you need to actually monitor your dog to see if she is too thin or too fat, or just nice. If it's just nice, just keep on feeding the amount you're feeding now. If not, then adjust accordingly smile.gif Hope that helps smile.gif
^4ever_Fan+a5y^
post Jul 2 2010, 03:03 PM

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QUOTE(Rayne @ Jul 2 2010, 02:48 PM)
Umm...feeding 400g when your pup is only 4kg would mean you're feeding her 10% of her body weight everyday O.O" That's a bit too much, in my opinion. At 6 months, she is young, but not THAT young anymore, if you get what I mean. If you need to up the amount from 200g, do it slowly in small increments (10g maybe?) instead of going up double like that.

For me, I feed Scottie (a Min. Schnauzer too) about 120 - 150g a day only, and he's about 6-7kg of weight now. Granted, he's already 3 years old, but even for his puppies, I actually go with the formula of 2% of the breed's ideal weight (which is around that weight also) and monitor as I feed. Feeling the dog's sides will help you get some gauge also whether she is underweight or overweight. If the pup is underweight, I just up the amount by about 10-20g first for a few days and go on from there.

Again, this is all by estimation...you need to actually monitor your dog to see if she is too thin or too fat, or just nice. If it's just nice, just keep on feeding the amount you're feeding now. If not, then adjust accordingly smile.gif Hope that helps smile.gif
*
this really help, Rayne, thanks for the info given^^ i think i will keep feeding the amount of food to her which is 200g per day....if based on the amount of food i feed now + the theory of 2% of the breed's ideal weight, then my MS will growth to 10kg? shocking.gif or should decrease the amount of food when she is getting elder and maintain the food at certain amount when she is 1 year old?

This post has been edited by ^4ever_Fan+a5y^: Jul 2 2010, 03:05 PM
Rayne
post Jul 2 2010, 03:29 PM

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Well, I follow the ideal weight thing coz it so happens Scottie falls under that range, but not all dogs are in that ideal weight range...so yeah, again it's back to the monitoring. By no means you should reduce coz your pup is still growing unless she has become too fat as a puppy. So, the food SHOULD increase when she's growing steadily until she has reached adulthood (around 1 - 1.5 years old). By then, you would have had an amount that you should feed steadily to maintain that ideal weight for your pup smile.gif The best advice I've always seen from other experienced raw feeders is to keep monitoring our dogs and KNOW OUR DOGS smile.gif There is no set amount of food to feed coz each dog grows differently, so keep monitoring and adjusting until you get that ideal weight for YOUR pup smile.gif
Miko_Chan
post Jul 2 2010, 05:05 PM

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i went to the barf website, it said raw bcos to keep the nutrients... really? is it safe? no bacteria ar? I wanna feed him barf too... wan his skin n coat to be more healthy and boost his immune... he is 2yrs old.... 2-3kg... How much shud i feed and how many times a day?? How to prepare barf?? PLS TEACH ME~ I can afford a simple diet... such as chicken and vegetables and egg... what can i make with these ingredients?
Rayne
post Jul 2 2010, 05:22 PM

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Well, to be honest I don't really know that much with regards to preparing BARF. Although I too feed raw, I follow the Prey Model which does not use as much vegetables and all that. So, I don't really know much about what kinds of veggies and their ratio. But, if you have the time, go look up the pages in this thread...they also have some recipes in the beginning few pages and what not. Also, read up more about raw feeding to clear your doubts about the questions that you have asked...not that I'm discouraging you to feed raw, but before feeding raw you need to know WHAT you can or cannot feed, and should you come across some 'bumps in the road' along the way, how to deal with it.

It is extensive reading I would say, especially if you want to prepare the raw food yourself. It's better for you to read up yourself as much as you could instead of relying on just one person's opinion. I myself took about 2 months of reading before I went into raw feeding and I still am learning smile.gif
devil86
post Jul 2 2010, 05:28 PM

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QUOTE(Miko_Chan @ Jul 2 2010, 05:05 PM)
i went to the barf website, it said raw bcos to keep the nutrients... really? is it safe? no bacteria ar? I wanna feed him barf too... wan his skin n coat to be more healthy and boost his immune... he is 2yrs old.... 2-3kg... How much shud i feed and how many times a day?? How to prepare barf?? PLS TEACH ME~ I can afford a simple diet... such as chicken and vegetables and egg... what can i make with these ingredients?
*
erm...juz my own opinion from what i had learned from Rayne and from internet,

the ingredient u may put into ur self prepared BARF food are:
- 30% of meaty bones (such as chicken wings and chicken necks),
- 40% chiken meat (meat only)
- 10% organ (such as brain and liver)
- 15% vegetables
- 5% fruits

the vegetables u can add into are: broccoli, turnip, celery, carrots, garlic (in small amount), cauliflower, spinach, kale, sweet potatoes, cabbage, dark or light greens, etc… (with vegetables diversity and variety is the key.
*i personally add 1 or 2 whole eggs to be blended together with vegetables.

the fruits: apple, orange, papaya, kiwi and etc (normally i put apple, kiwi and papaya)

**note that all fruits and vege must be blended!

the raw food can be in chunks or blended form.

u may oso refer to this link for more info.

or for the easier way, u could buy the packaged raw food from Rayne, bought from her b4 and now try to prepare myselve~ click here is her selling link for her selling link thumbup.gif
falcon16
post Jul 3 2010, 03:10 AM

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guy i;m planning to feed my dog a BARF diet... i wish to add the following ingredients to her diet :

Chicken Breast (buy frm tesco and cut cut)
Vege
Apple cider vinegar
yogurt
Rice (she loovvveeesss rice gila gila so yeah)

what do you guys think?
devil86
post Jul 3 2010, 08:35 PM

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QUOTE(falcon16 @ Jul 3 2010, 03:10 AM)
guy i;m planning to feed my dog a BARF diet... i wish to add the following ingredients to her diet :

Chicken Breast (buy frm tesco and cut cut)
Vege
Apple cider vinegar
yogurt
Rice (she loovvveeesss rice gila gila so yeah)

what do you guys think?
*
Chicken breast better include the bones...n if can, avoid the rice..hehe..
Miko_Chan
post Jul 3 2010, 11:16 PM

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how to keep the barf? and for how long can keep for??
falcon16
post Jul 4 2010, 01:49 AM

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lol why avoid rice?... yeah including bones as well... so just feed it raw like dat?...wat if she duwan to eat the fruits and vege =.='
Divas
post Jul 4 2010, 10:18 AM

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All the answers you are looking for are already in this thread. If you read through at least the first 2 pages or so (it only took me a couple of hours to go through the whole thing so first 2 pages won't take long) you will probably have a better understanding of what BARF/Raw feeding is.

This is not the kind of diet you can just jump into, to do it properly you really need to have at least a basic understanding of what goes into the food and why (or just buy a readymade version).
Miko_Chan
post Jul 8 2010, 03:09 PM

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i read alredi... but i dont know how to prepare and how long can keep it in the refrigerator... and what ingredients shud i use.... meaty bones, protein : eggs , celery, carrots... and?? do i nid to add something else?
Rayne
post Jul 8 2010, 04:17 PM

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If you're talking about meat, start out with chicken first...it's the cheapest and easiest to find meat available. What I would do is buy a whole chicken and chop it into pieces. Since Scottie is not that big, I usually get about 8-10 pieces from a whole chicken. I weigh the chicken of course to make sure it's around the amount I feed Scottie. Rinse and feed. Note that I feed Scottie only once a day, and I don't cut into very small chunks because I want him to chew the meat and bones to clean the teeth better. If your pup is a really small breed, or just a young pup in general the 'rule of thumb' is to cut the pieces either really small that they can eat easily, or something that is big enough to make them chew. Anything in between might be cause for choking.

When we say 'meaty bones', it's not just chicken wings and necks. They have too much bone and not enough meat. I prefer to use bones that are heavily enveloped in meat, like breasts, thighs or drumsticks. But since I buy one whole chicken anyways, it's kind of like a balance: you get some bony parts and some not-so-bony. When you mix and match, you get Balance Over Time (which is what we want). If you find that your pup is having a hard time chewing the bone, you can use the back of a chopping knife or a hammer to smash the bones a little (the bones MUST still be enveloped in meat) to help with the chewing. Since you're starting off, I would suggest using breast meat first...the rib and keel bones are soft and more pliable compared to the rest, so they are good for beginners. I have posted an article that I found very useful for beginners here in this thread if you would like to start on the Prey Model diet...if you already have read the whole thread, it is enough to start on but you would still need to read up more from other sources to expand your knowledge on this.

As for veggies, I can't really help you much but from what I've observed from my friend (who feeds the BARF model), the veggies MUST be blended. Dogs can't digest the cellulose from the vegetables easily, so to help it along, you need to blend the veggies into a mush. From what I can tell, she uses most kind of leafy green veggies, celery, carrots, capsicum, tomatoes and sometimes she also adds fruits like apples (whatever you can find at the market). If you want to give variety, you can use different kinds of vegetables each time...no hard rule to use a set number of veggies. If I remember correctly from the previous postings in this thread, there was a post by Shayne about not using too much broccoli, cauliflower or the 'night flower' family (go back and read that up).

Veggies & fruits to avoid: ONIONS, GRAPES. There have been mention that garlic is also something to avoid, but if you give a very minimal amount, it is still okay.

You can also mix offals into the veggie mush to make it smell more appealing, as most dogs tend not to like the veggies. Offals are things like liver, kidney, spleen, heart, gizzard, brain, etc etc. Be careful not to overdo this though as too much offal might cause loose poop. My friend also adds apple cider vinegar in the veggie mush as kind of a supplement. If you want to add other supplements, you could also add things like salmon body oil (NOT to be confused with cod liver oil) but you need to be aware of how much to give as per your dog's weight. I've also heard people add on occasion yogurt for digestion, but my friend doesn't.

Again this is just a rough estimate. I cannot stress this enough, but please please do more reading than just reading the thread here about raw feeding. You will definitely find more info from books and a bit of Googling instead of just relying on other people to spoon feed you. Since we all want the best for our furkids, I think a little bit more effort on our part is not that much to ask for. smile.gif

EDIT: To answer your question about storage...I store my furkids' food in the freezer. They last for about a month or so in the freezer. If you keep the meats in the fridge they last for only about 2-3 days.

This post has been edited by Rayne: Jul 8 2010, 05:07 PM
TSWhite Palace
post Jul 10 2010, 12:52 PM

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Juz read back this thread, it seems so wonderful that after about 2 years time, we do notice there are more people actually accepted BARF and we can even see many kind people here sharing their knowledge!

I start to feel that my first post is not detailed enough already. If you guys felt that there is anything I should adds on to the first post, please do PM me alright?
devil86
post Jul 23 2010, 11:46 AM

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Hi all raw feeder here,

I wish to add fish into my raw diet, may i know what fish is recommended to add? the best fishes for dos as i know are mackeral and herring, anyone know where can i get these fish meats?
Rayne
post Jul 23 2010, 12:22 PM

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I've fed mackerel, sardine and salmon before to Scottie smile.gif Mackerel is actually the fish that was used to make fishballs (I THINK it's called tenggiri if I remember it correctly). You can just get those from any wet markets or supermarkets smile.gif Have not tried herring though, but fresh sardines definitely can be found in wet markets smile.gif It's rather cheap too and the easiest to feed as Whole Prey...I usually just get them scaled and washed. Then I feed them as is (no cutting off the heads, gutting, deboning, etc).

But it's not really a pre-requisite to feed fish though...I mean, if your pup doesn't want to eat fish, you don't have to force it on her smile.gif Maybe give her some time and introduce again later...she might develop a taste for it smile.gif I feed Scottie fish just to give him more Omega-3s, which is why I only feed those fishes that have high O3s smile.gif
^4ever_Fan+a5y^
post Jul 23 2010, 12:40 PM

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QUOTE(Rayne @ Jul 23 2010, 12:22 PM)
I've fed mackerel, sardine and salmon before to Scottie smile.gif Mackerel is actually the fish that was used to make fishballs (I THINK it's called tenggiri if I remember it correctly). You can just get those from any wet markets or supermarkets smile.gif Have not tried herring though, but fresh sardines definitely can be found in wet markets smile.gif It's rather cheap too and the easiest to feed as Whole Prey...I usually just get them scaled and washed. Then I feed them as is (no cutting off the heads, gutting, deboning, etc).

But it's not really a pre-requisite to feed fish though...I mean, if your pup doesn't want to eat fish, you don't have to force it on her smile.gif Maybe give her some time and introduce again later...she might develop a taste for it smile.gif I feed Scottie fish just to give him more Omega-3s, which is why I only feed those fishes that have high O3s smile.gif
*
Thanks audrey, long time din c u at ms thread,guess u r busy wif ur work, hehe.

I used google translate n it translated mackerel as ikan kembung in malay. When translated into malay, it sound more familiar with me, haha..

Btw, is it ok to let a dog to eat raw fish every meal for round 1 month? Coz i'm going to add mackerel as main source of bone n omega together with other meat n ingredient for my miki's next batch of food.. =P
I think miki wont hv problem to eat fish coz tat little devil love to eat anything!

Edit: ops, forgot to tell tat i'm anson (devil86), tis id was created for my gf.

This post has been edited by ^4ever_Fan+a5y^: Jul 23 2010, 12:51 PM
Rayne
post Jul 23 2010, 12:49 PM

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Yeah, kind of smile.gif But I still lurk about at the Schnauzer thread...just that I have nothing to say tongue.gif

I'm not too sure mackerel is kembung though...kembung is the really small fish. The mackerel is a deep sea water fish, and when I see my Mom buys it to make fishballs, they're usually big. If I remember correctly, my Mom says it's "Ma Yau Yu" in Cantonese. If you go to the wet markets and ask the fishmongers, I think they can guide you better since they know more about fishes smile.gif

Yeah, sure...I've done that before when I was rotating meats for Scottie. I fed lots of sardines, pork and buffalo for about a month to Scottie & Kenji. But before you do that straightaway, I think it's a better idea to introduce the fish to Miki first to see if she'll like it. Some dogs take to it better, some don't...I'm lucky Scottie wallops everything that I get for him. tongue.gif Kenji is a tricky thing though...he doesn't really like fish, wild boar and quail. So I feed him a bit differently...but lucky he's small, so it doesn't impact the cost too much wink.gif


devil86
post Jul 23 2010, 02:01 PM

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QUOTE(Rayne @ Jul 23 2010, 12:49 PM)
Yeah, kind of smile.gif But I still lurk about at the Schnauzer thread...just that I have nothing to say tongue.gif

I'm not too sure mackerel is kembung though...kembung is the really small fish. The mackerel is a deep sea water fish, and when I see my Mom buys it to make fishballs, they're usually big. If I remember correctly, my Mom says it's "Ma Yau Yu" in Cantonese. If you go to the wet markets and ask the fishmongers, I think they can guide you better since they know more about fishes smile.gif

Yeah, sure...I've done that before when I was rotating meats for Scottie. I fed lots of sardines, pork and buffalo for about a month to Scottie & Kenji. But before you do that straightaway, I think it's a better idea to introduce the fish to Miki first to see if she'll like it. Some dogs take to it better, some don't...I'm lucky Scottie wallops everything that I get for him. tongue.gif Kenji is a tricky thing though...he doesn't really like fish, wild boar and quail. So I feed him a bit differently...but lucky he's small, so it doesn't impact the cost too much wink.gif
*
erm....finally i make it clear,

mackerel = ikan kempung
sea mackerel = tenggiri
according to google translate la... sweat.gif

btw, i think i will try to search for sardines since it is small and easy to feed as a whole (no nid to cut)....hehe... tongue.gif

My question is, if i feed sardines a whole, do i still nid to add organ meat into my barf diet? since the sardines itself edy contain organ...

This post has been edited by devil86: Jul 23 2010, 02:04 PM
Rayne
post Jul 23 2010, 02:13 PM

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Umm...I guess it depends on how big the fish is compared to the amount of food you're feeding, but then again, the amount of organs in the food is very VERY little compared to the meat portion. Sometimes I feed a bit of organs to Scottie, and sometimes I don't when I feed fish....I guess no need to be so overworked about it wink.gif It's Balance Over Time, anyways...as long as there is meat, bones and organs it's fine smile.gif Just monitor the stools I guess...sometimes too much organs can result in loose poop.
devil86
post Sep 2 2010, 12:20 PM

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after feeding Sardin fish to my lovely MiKi for 1 month...planning to feed her Duck meat for the next batch of food....anyone here know where can i buy the raw duck meat in KL or selangor area? I think duck meat is haram food for Muslim, so its kinda hard for me to find duck meat seller around my area...had went to several wet market...but cant find also...
Rayne
post Sep 2 2010, 01:12 PM

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Not too sure if duck is actually haram, but I've seen duck being sold in Giant supermarkets near the chicken section smile.gif Sometimes I get duck from the Giant in Bandar Kinrara if they have a good deal. Most ducks in the wet market (my Mom usually frequents the one in Kuchai 4 1/2 Miles if you're near that area) sell for about RM19-20 per duck. Sometimes Giant can go down to about RM18 if they have sales. 1 duck can last Scottie & Kenji for about a week or so, depending on if I mix with other kinds of meat or not smile.gif Hope this helps!
uSry^_^
post Sep 2 2010, 01:28 PM

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QUOTE(devil86 @ Sep 2 2010, 12:20 PM)
after feeding Sardin fish to my lovely MiKi for 1 month...planning to feed her Duck meat for the next batch of food....anyone here know where can i buy the raw duck meat in KL or selangor area? I think duck meat is haram food for Muslim, so its kinda hard for me to find duck meat seller around my area...had went to several wet market...but cant find also...
*
Duck is not haram la.. shakehead.gif
devil86
post Sep 2 2010, 02:44 PM

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QUOTE(Rayne @ Sep 2 2010, 01:12 PM)
Not too sure if duck is actually haram, but I've seen duck being sold in Giant supermarkets near the chicken section smile.gif Sometimes I get duck from the Giant in Bandar Kinrara if they have a good deal. Most ducks in the wet market (my Mom usually frequents the one in Kuchai 4 1/2 Miles if you're near that area) sell for about RM19-20 per duck. Sometimes Giant can go down to about RM18 if they have sales. 1 duck can last Scottie & Kenji for about a week or so, depending on if I mix with other kinds of meat or not smile.gif Hope this helps!
*
Thanks Audrey, will pay a visit to Giant to look for Duck meat....went to Carrefour and Jusco, juz cant find any duck there....

QUOTE(uSry^_^ @ Sep 2 2010, 01:28 PM)
Duck is not haram la..  shakehead.gif
*
opps...my mistake....coz seldom see muslim eat duck...hehe...
conangirl
post Sep 6 2010, 10:24 PM

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I just bought chicken neck for my dogs (mongrel/Shih tzu and silky) to clean their teeth... Can somebody tell me how to serve? Should I cook it or give them raw? Now in freezer, should I warm it/defrost before serve? How much should I give per dog?

And I have bought minced lamb for Shih tzu and silky as their coat and skin diet, how should I serve? Can I mixed with kibble? What's the quantity? Need to cook?
devil86
post Sep 7 2010, 09:28 AM

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QUOTE(conangirl @ Sep 6 2010, 10:24 PM)
I just bought chicken neck for my dogs (mongrel/Shih tzu and silky) to clean their teeth... Can somebody tell me how to serve? Should I cook it or give them raw? Now in freezer, should I warm it/defrost before serve? How much should I give per dog?

And I have bought minced lamb for Shih tzu and silky as their coat and skin diet, how  should I serve? Can I mixed with kibble? What's the quantity? Need to cook?
*
NEVER cook or warm the raw food b4 giving them to ur dog especially the born. Cooked bone is more hard if compared to raw bone and this may be harmful to ur dog. Juz freeze them, then defrost them b4 feeding ur dog. Dun serve only chicken neck in a meal, mix it with other muscle meat, organ meat, vegetable and fruit. The quantity to feed should be 2-3% of ur dog weight (assuming ur dog is adult).

For more details, i think u can read through the whole thread, there is many useful information here.
gidlcin
post Sep 8 2010, 05:42 PM

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guys just wan to have a quick check with ur..
i saw some malays setting up stalls n selling beff..
so i tot wanna buy the Cow Bone for my rott to eat which i wanted to do long time ago..
so i went to buy the big white bone.. but the problem is.. lots of fatts n meat still staining on the bone..
is it ok for me to feed my rott like that? or how to get rid of those fats?
boil it first?? and do i need to boil the bone before i give it to my rott.
thanxz
conangirl
post Sep 10 2010, 07:33 PM

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QUOTE(devil86 @ Sep 7 2010, 09:28 AM)
NEVER cook or warm the raw food b4 giving them to ur dog especially the born. Cooked bone is more hard if compared to raw bone and this may be harmful to ur dog. Juz freeze them, then defrost them b4 feeding ur dog. Dun serve only chicken neck in a meal, mix it with other muscle meat, organ meat, vegetable and fruit. The quantity to feed should be 2-3% of ur dog weight (assuming ur dog is adult).

For more details, i think u can read through the whole thread, there is many useful information here.
*
The minced mutton and chicken neck I defrost it then give to my dogs together with kibble... I'm just give minced mutton to replace canned food and chicken neck to clean their tooth..
kawa_e
post Sep 30 2010, 04:24 PM

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I've been feeding my dog(beagle) with raw diet since October last year. But her black coat is fading with a bit of white hairs lately. She's 4 years old now. Most of the time feed her with boar and chicken neck. Can her coat condition improved ? What could be the cause ? Sometimes my dad feed her with boiled big wild boar bone. Could this be the problem ? icon_question.gif
vasalis
post Oct 25 2010, 01:55 AM

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dont cook the bone dont cook d bone.. =.=''

ppl alrd mention like 1283791284 times all over the topic lorrr..


DONT COOK THE BONE ! ! ! ishh~~


devil86
post Oct 25 2010, 03:23 PM

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QUOTE(conangirl @ Sep 10 2010, 07:33 PM)
The minced mutton and chicken neck I defrost it then give to my dogs together with kibble... I'm just give minced mutton to replace canned food and chicken neck to clean their tooth..
*
and dun mix the raw food with kibble in 1 meal, coz the digestion time for raw food and kibble is different, doing this will make ur pup stomach upset..1 meal raw food and other 1 meal kibble is fine..


Added on October 25, 2010, 3:30 pm
QUOTE(kawa_e @ Sep 30 2010, 04:24 PM)
I've been feeding my dog(beagle) with raw diet since October last year. But her black coat is  fading with a bit of white hairs lately. She's 4 years old now. Most of the time feed her with boar and chicken neck. Can her coat condition improved ? What could be the cause ? Sometimes my dad feed her with boiled big wild boar bone. Could this be the problem ?  icon_question.gif
*
duno wat is the cause..but maybe u can try increase the variety of the food u gv to ur beagle? try other meat other thab boar and chicken neck..dun gv only chicken neck to ur dog in 1 meal, at least mix with other "pure meat" without bone..coz chicken neck oni is too bony..this i learnt from Rayne =)
maybe u can try to feed sardine to ur beagle? sardine is rich with omega 3 and the price is not expensive oso..

so far my schnauzer dun hv skin and coat problem, she still have a healthy and shining coat..btw, she oni had 7 months raw food experience which is lesser than u..hehe..

This post has been edited by devil86: Oct 25 2010, 03:30 PM
freakfingers12
post Oct 25 2010, 08:06 PM

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QUOTE(gidlcin @ Sep 8 2010, 05:42 PM)
guys just wan to have a quick check with ur..
i saw some malays setting up stalls n selling beff..
so i tot wanna buy the Cow Bone for my rott to eat which i wanted to do long time ago..
so i went to buy the big white bone.. but the problem is.. lots of fatts n meat still staining on the bone..
is it ok for me to feed my rott like that? or  how to get rid of those fats?
boil it first?? and do i need to boil the bone before i give it to my rott.
thanxz
*
Just scrape the fats perhaps? I bought cow's head for my dog before. Didn't scrape any fats or remove the brain, just fed it like that. The seller did chop it though, just wasn't too small to choke my dog.
devil86
post Oct 25 2010, 10:15 PM

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QUOTE(freakfingers12 @ Oct 25 2010, 08:06 PM)
Just scrape the fats perhaps? I bought cow's head for my dog before. Didn't scrape any fats or remove the brain, just fed it like that. The seller did chop it though, just wasn't too small to choke my dog.
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cow's head? blink.gif wont it be too hard for ur dog?
bei00
post Oct 26 2010, 02:16 PM

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Dear all,
wanna ask, give dog eat chicken neck will clean their teeth? when buy chicken neck from wet market, need freezer 1st only give dog eat or can directly give dog eat? will the dog get choke ? sorry, im new here wanna know more. tq
devil86
post Oct 26 2010, 02:37 PM

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QUOTE(bei00 @ Oct 26 2010, 02:16 PM)
Dear all,
wanna ask, give dog eat chicken neck will clean their teeth? when buy chicken neck from wet market, need freezer 1st only give dog eat or can directly give dog eat? will the dog get choke ? sorry, im new here wanna know more. tq
*
please go through this thread 1st b4 asking the question...this question had been answered many many times.. yawn.gif
freakfingers12
post Oct 26 2010, 05:38 PM

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QUOTE(devil86 @ Oct 25 2010, 10:15 PM)
cow's head?  blink.gif  wont it be too hard for ur dog?
*
My dogs have massive jaw strength, they're pitbulls. tongue.gif

But still not strong enough to break the skull, so they don't chew the bones actually.
bchan28
post Nov 11 2010, 11:31 PM

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Hi all,

Will start to feed my boy BARF diet soon. Try to mix kibbles with raw egg (with shell) and amazingly he eat all the egg shell but cant finish his kibbles. I also feed him 2 pcs of chicken neck and he eat it in less than 2 min. Will try to switch to BARF diet in 2 week time. Hopefully my boy will love the new diet rather than begging him to eat his kibbles everytime.

Thank Shayne for providing me all the useful information.
myhugoboss
post Nov 12 2010, 12:02 AM

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QUOTE(devil86 @ Oct 26 2010, 02:37 PM)
please go through this thread 1st b4 asking the question...this question had been answered many many times..  yawn.gif
*
mayb going through a 18page thread is not that easy..plus sometimes eventhough answer many times might be hard to know which page and wat is being discuse.. smile.gif
low yat 82
post Nov 12 2010, 09:10 AM

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how much $$ per daily u spend for dog? my dog r eatin more n more.. i think im gonna broke...zzz
bchan28
post Nov 12 2010, 09:31 AM

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QUOTE(low yat 82 @ Nov 12 2010, 09:10 AM)
how much $$ per daily u spend for dog? my dog r eatin more n more.. i think im gonna broke...zzz
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What breed you having with you? My puppy don't really like to eat that why I try to feed him BARF. But I do spend a lot on his supplement.
low yat 82
post Nov 12 2010, 09:50 AM

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QUOTE(bchan28 @ Nov 12 2010, 09:31 AM)
What breed you having with you? My puppy don't really like to eat that why I try to feed him BARF. But I do spend a lot on his supplement.
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its mongrel i guess. my pup love chicken...zzzzzz . rm3 perday. a week alrady rm21... 1 month 80-90..........

dat day he poo cacing so besar.... like noodle mee size.. then i go buy frontal pill (if not mistaken) giv him eat.. now much better... poo also vry little d..


Added on November 12, 2010, 9:51 ami think all pup/dog r same.. they like meat.. if giv kibbles..zzzzzzz. u can see different when feed it wit meat.. they wallop all so fas...lol

This post has been edited by low yat 82: Nov 12 2010, 09:51 AM
Red11DEvils
post Nov 12 2010, 10:05 AM

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i feed raw chicken breast meat to my shih tzu pup, 4 months old..

as the poo still soft, so still trial/error by add one more bone.. i noticed that for chicken breast meat, my pup just swallow piece by piece..lazy to chew doh.gif maybe the teeth not fully grown yet..

as for the organ parts, can i always feed the same chicken organ? or must i change the organ part once a while?
bchan28
post Nov 12 2010, 10:05 AM

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QUOTE(low yat 82 @ Nov 12 2010, 09:50 AM)
its mongrel i guess. my pup love chicken...zzzzzz . rm3 perday. a week alrady rm21... 1 month 80-90..........

dat day he poo cacing so besar.... like noodle mee size.. then i go buy frontal pill (if not mistaken) giv him eat.. now much better... poo also vry little d..


Added on November 12, 2010, 9:51 ami think all pup/dog r same.. they like meat.. if giv kibbles..zzzzzzz. u can see different when feed it wit meat.. they wallop all so fas...lol
*
Worm as big as noodle ...omg.....thats scarry. But after deworm the dog should fine. Yes my boy don't like kibbles, he will only eat when he is really really hungry if not he will smell it and walk away. I try to feed him chicken neck yesterday and he eat it like no tomorrow....hahahaha...Happy to see that. And this morning the poo is abit soft and white grey in color. Hope to switch to barf soon.
low yat 82
post Nov 12 2010, 10:19 AM

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QUOTE(Red11DEvils @ Nov 12 2010, 10:05 AM)
i feed raw chicken breast meat to my shih tzu pup, 4 months old..

as the poo still soft, so still trial/error by add one more bone.. i noticed that for chicken breast meat, my pup just swallow piece by piece..lazy to chew  doh.gif maybe the teeth not fully grown yet..

as for the organ parts, can i always feed the same chicken organ? or must i change the organ part once a while?
*
y not chop it to smaller? so big, my pup also telan 1 @.@ chop smaller abit, can eat longger...lol

QUOTE(bchan28 @ Nov 12 2010, 10:05 AM)
Worm as big as noodle ...omg.....thats scarry. But after deworm the dog should fine. Yes my boy don't like kibbles, he will only eat when he is really really hungry if not he will smell it and walk away. I try to feed him chicken neck yesterday and he eat it like no tomorrow....hahahaha...Happy to see that. And this morning the poo is abit soft and white grey in color. Hope to switch to barf soon.
*
wats act is deworm or mka? lol.... i jus buy d pill...isdat call deworm? XD

white grey in color? ooo..i thought its from milk... lol....


ooo...can feed neck onli? wanna buy also.. much cheaper...lol
bchan28
post Nov 12 2010, 10:33 AM

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wats act is deworm or mka? lol.... i jus buy d pill...isdat call deworm? XD

white grey in color? ooo..i thought its from milk... lol....
ooo...can feed neck onli? wanna buy also.. much cheaper...lol
*

[/quote]

Deworm pill is the pill that kill all the worm i think (correct me if im wrong) and MKA is Malaysia Kennel Association (birth certicaficate for the pup). And for the grey white poo...I never feed my boy any milk products so not sure why. From information i gather from some of the dog lover, they said dog need boney meat more than just pure meat. And chicken neck is softer than other part of chicken so I start with chicken neck first if he is ok with that I will start feeding him chicken wing and other boney meat.


low yat 82
post Nov 12 2010, 10:58 AM

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[quote=bchan28,Nov 12 2010, 10:33 AM]
wats act is deworm or mka? lol.... i jus buy d pill...isdat call deworm? XD

white grey in color? ooo..i thought its from milk... lol....
ooo...can feed neck onli? wanna buy also.. much cheaper...lol
*

[/quote]

Deworm pill is the pill that kill all the worm i think (correct me if im wrong) and MKA is Malaysia Kennel Association (birth certicaficate for the pup). And for the grey white poo...I never feed my boy any milk products so not sure why. From information i gather from some of the dog lover, they said dog need boney meat more than just pure meat. And chicken neck is softer than other part of chicken so I start with chicken neck first if he is ok with that I will start feeding him chicken wing and other boney meat.
*

[/quote]


icici.... mayb i shud try neck also since its cheap XD


u noe anythin ab vaccinated? wats it ab? lol....
bchan28
post Nov 12 2010, 11:22 AM

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[quote=low yat 82,Nov 12 2010, 10:58 AM]
Deworm pill is the pill that kill all the worm i think (correct me if im wrong) and MKA is Malaysia Kennel Association (birth certicaficate for the pup). And for the grey white poo...I never feed my boy any milk products so not sure why. From information i gather from some of the dog lover, they said dog need boney meat more than just pure meat. And chicken neck is softer than other part of chicken so I start with chicken neck first if he is ok with that I will start feeding him chicken wing and other boney meat.
*

[/quote]
icici.... mayb i shud try neck also since its cheap XD
u noe anythin ab vaccinated? wats it ab? lol....
*

[/quote]

My pup start his first vaccination on 8 week i think (breeder do the first jab) then after a month i bring him to the vet for second jab and a month later 3rd jab. The next jab will be one year from the 3rd jab. I only do the 6 in 1 (cost RM35 per jab as my breeder told me 6 in 1 is more than enough to cover all those like parvo, kennel cough, distemper thingy). This is from my own personal point please correct me if im wrong. smile.gif
mavericksam
post Nov 12 2010, 11:51 AM

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QUOTE(Red11DEvils @ Nov 12 2010, 10:05 AM)
i feed raw chicken breast meat to my shih tzu pup, 4 months old..

as the poo still soft, so still trial/error by add one more bone.. i noticed that for chicken breast meat, my pup just swallow piece by piece..lazy to chew  doh.gif maybe the teeth not fully grown yet..

as for the organ parts, can i always feed the same chicken organ? or must i change the organ part once a while?
*
While you can feed the same food again and again, it is nice to change once in a while so your pup wouldn't develop a rejection on other type of meats.

i usually fixed it with chick... once in a month, i'd switch to beef / pork / fish for a few days...

Switching to other type of meats needs normalization... (add in to her mains bit by bit till your pet can eat it stand alone)


QUOTE(low yat 82 @ Nov 12 2010, 10:19 AM)
y not chop it to smaller? so big, my pup also telan 1 @.@  chop smaller abit, can eat longger...lol
ooo...can feed neck onli? wanna buy also.. much cheaper...lol
*
i would say leave it larger... if there is a bone with the meat the better... i started my dog with chick thighs... neck only is not advisible as it has too much bone content... you will see your dog poo being powderish when dried... it would also cause them to have difficulty in pooing...

i am currently feeding my dog a drumstick a meal... 2 days' meal (2 chick drumstick) cost me about RM4... so a month is about rm30... if get thigh i would need to chop it to half... with bones in the meat, my dog would have to work it to eat the meat first before finishing the bones... with that, she can't just swallow...

sorry i have hijacked the thread as i am not feeding barf but really just raw meat... (anyhow, my furkid doesn't like vege also... she would separate the vege out if i feed her barf... lol...
low yat 82
post Nov 12 2010, 12:05 PM

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QUOTE(mavericksam @ Nov 12 2010, 11:51 AM)
While you can feed the same food again and again, it is nice to change once in a while so your pup wouldn't develop a rejection on other type of meats.

i usually fixed it with chick... once in a month, i'd switch to beef / pork / fish for a few days...

Switching to other type of meats needs normalization... (add in to her mains bit by bit till your pet can eat it stand alone)
i would say leave it larger... if there is a bone with the meat the better... i started my dog with chick thighs... neck only is not advisible as it has too much bone content... you will see your dog poo being powderish when dried... it would also cause them to have difficulty in pooing...

i am currently feeding my dog a drumstick a meal... 2 days' meal (2 chick drumstick) cost me about RM4... so a month is about rm30... if get thigh i would need to chop it to half... with bones in the meat, my dog would have to work it to eat the meat first before finishing the bones... with that, she can't just swallow...

sorry i have hijacked the thread as i am not feeding barf but really just raw meat... (anyhow, my furkid doesn't like vege also... she would separate the vege out if i feed her barf... lol...
*
u mean 1 week or 1 month? lol....



Rayne
post Nov 12 2010, 12:24 PM

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QUOTE(myhugoboss @ Nov 12 2010, 12:02 AM)
mayb going through a 18page thread is not that easy..plus sometimes eventhough answer many times might be hard to know which page and wat is being discuse..  smile.gif
*
I kind of disagree with this. As all raw feeders know, raw feeding is totally different than just scooping up some food and feed. We need to know and read more about what to feed, ratios/percentages, what things to expect in raw feeding, as well as basic stuff. It's not for everyone, as you can see. I myself took 2 months of reading and researching (online and otherwise) before I switched, so I don't think spending a few hours to read through a thread is a hard thing. If we really want to do it right, some effort is needed. Even just reading this thread I feel is not enough to learn as much as you can about raw feeding. If reading through one thread is too difficult, I would suggest you stick to kibbles for your dog.


QUOTE(Red11DEvils @ Nov 12 2010, 10:05 AM)
i feed raw chicken breast meat to my shih tzu pup, 4 months old..

as the poo still soft, so still trial/error by add one more bone.. i noticed that for chicken breast meat, my pup just swallow piece by piece..lazy to chew  doh.gif maybe the teeth not fully grown yet..

as for the organ parts, can i always feed the same chicken organ? or must i change the organ part once a while?
*
Do you feed just the breast meat in itself, or does the breast meat have some bone in it? It's better to have at least SOME bone in the meat. The keel and ribs of chicken are good also for pups since these bones are the softest. Dogs don't really chew because they don't have the same kind of digestive system that we have. When we chew, the saliva is helping to digest the food (hence chewing our food is good), but for dogs their digestive system starts in the stomach itself so they don't need to chew. When they chew,it's just to break the bigger pieces into small enough pieces to swallow.

When you feed organs (liver, pancreas, brains, kidney, lungs, etc. Gizzards and hearts are more towards meaty meat instead of organs as they are made mostly of muscle) especially to a puppy, the amount needs to be small coz organs only play a small part in ratio for a meal. Too much organs will cause loose poops. And yes, it's best to have as much variation as we can (meats, organs and bones) so that they get the best out of the different meats as each meat have their own nutrients.


QUOTE(mavericksam @ Nov 12 2010, 11:51 AM)
While you can feed the same food again and again, it is nice to change once in a while so your pup wouldn't develop a rejection on other type of meats.

i usually fixed it with chick... once in a month, i'd switch to beef / pork / fish for a few days...

Switching to other type of meats needs normalization... (add in to her mains bit by bit till your pet can eat it stand alone)
i would say leave it larger... if there is a bone with the meat the better... i started my dog with chick thighs... neck only is not advisible as it has too much bone content... you will see your dog poo being powderish when dried... it would also cause them to have difficulty in pooing...

i am currently feeding my dog a drumstick a meal... 2 days' meal (2 chick drumstick) cost me about RM4... so a month is about rm30... if get thigh i would need to chop it to half... with bones in the meat, my dog would have to work it to eat the meat first before finishing the bones... with that, she can't just swallow...

sorry i have hijacked the thread as i am not feeding barf but really just raw meat... (anyhow, my furkid doesn't like vege also... she would separate the vege out if i feed her barf... lol...
*
Agree with this mostly. For beginners, it's good to feed slightly more bone as bone helps to firm up the poop a bit. Once they've gotten used to the raw meals, we can slowly decrease the amount of bones until the poop is the right consistency. It's better to feed in bigger chunks as it gives the dog a better chance to chew. Since they only chew to break the big pieces, it kind of makes sense to feed bigger pieces because we need them to chew. Chewing works out the jaws and cleans the teeth.

Honestly, feeding raw is not that expensive especially when you count the amount you will save from having to visit the vet too often. We all want what's best for our pets, no? Since we can feed ourselves 3 meals a day which definitely costs more than RM3, why not spend that RM3 a day? They only eat one meal if you think of it wink.gif

Sam, what we're feeding is still raw feeding, so it kind of falls under this thread too. I follow the Prey Model too, so I don't really give Scottie veggies except occasionally like treats.
Red11DEvils
post Nov 12 2010, 01:15 PM

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Thanks Rayne and mavericksam...

i put one chicken wing for my pup to chew but see him eat like so tired moving the drumlet from left to right side of jaw and vice versa.. look so tiring for me haha...

balance part abit hard..just have to keep on play around with it.. think increase 2 wings and less breast meat(those soft bone part)


mavericksam
post Nov 12 2010, 02:05 PM

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QUOTE(Red11DEvils @ Nov 12 2010, 01:15 PM)
Thanks Rayne and mavericksam...

i put one chicken wing for my pup to chew but see him eat like so tired moving the drumlet from left to right side of jaw and vice versa.. look so tiring for me haha...

balance part abit hard..just have to keep on play around with it.. think increase 2 wings and less breast meat(those soft bone part)
*
Actually i enjoy watching my dog eat that way... i know she is working on it and actually they are good for the dog too... as Rayne has put it, it helps them to clean their teeth... prior to raw, i had to clean her teeth and give those greenies to keep her teeth nice... now i don't need to do that to keep it clean and nice breath too... so it saves some monies in that sense too...
bchan28
post Nov 15 2010, 09:09 AM

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Just start my boy on BARF Diet yesterday and eat everything in less than 5 min (compare to when he is on kibbles 30 min also canot finish). But he is having mix of solid and watery poo this morning (alot of poo though). Is this consider normal as I just start feeding him BARF yesterday before that I did give him some raw egg and chicken neck for snack.

Thanks
Red11DEvils
post Nov 15 2010, 03:00 PM

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QUOTE(bchan28 @ Nov 15 2010, 09:09 AM)
Just start my boy on BARF Diet yesterday and eat everything in less than 5 min (compare to when he is on kibbles 30 min also canot finish). But he is having mix of solid and watery poo this morning (alot of poo though). Is this consider normal as I just start feeding him BARF yesterday before that I did give him some raw egg and chicken neck for snack.

Thanks
*
I think it's normal if u just switch it.. Wait for the stomach to get used to it..
bchan28
post Nov 15 2010, 04:44 PM

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QUOTE(Red11DEvils @ Nov 15 2010, 03:00 PM)
I think it's normal if u just switch it.. Wait for the stomach to get used to it..
*
Thats what I think as well. He seem alrite playing with his toy, walk up and down but can see he is abit tired. Will feed him BARF tonight again and see what his reaction tomorrow morning.

Thanks cool2.gif
Red11DEvils
post Nov 26 2010, 10:46 AM

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wanna ask regarding supplying fish oil to pup...

which kind of fish oil you all use? is it the same fish oil that we human buy from pharmacy?


Rayne
post Nov 26 2010, 10:56 AM

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I usually use fish body oil / salmon oil. Yes, you can get the oil from pharmacies.

Just to copy and paste back some comments I wrote re: fish body oil at another thread:
QUOTE
There's no limit to how long to feed fish oil...it's just a supplement anyways, so if you feel like your pup's coat is good and you want to stop, you can just stop feeding it. I feed Scottie everyday, but the thing to remember is to get fish body oil / salmon oil..NOT cod liver oil. Also, note that the dosage of the EPA + DHA should be around 300mg combined per capsule of 1000mg (you can find this on the bottle label). Feed this amount for every 15kg of your dog's weight.

Scottie is about 6-7kg, so 300mg of EPA + DHA is about all that I feed. The capsules I have are only 200mg EPA + DHA, so I give him and Kenji 2 capsules everyday.

Alternatively, if you find this very troublesome, you could get the MyBeau supplement from the pet stores. I've tried it with Scottie & Kenji and they do quite well on that too...just follow the instructions on how much to give per meal



Hope this helps smile.gif
Red11DEvils
post Nov 26 2010, 11:11 AM

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QUOTE(Rayne @ Nov 26 2010, 10:56 AM)
I usually use fish body oil / salmon oil. Yes, you can get the oil from pharmacies.

Just to copy and paste back some comments I wrote re: fish body oil at another thread:
Hope this helps smile.gif
*
Thanks Rayne... Reason I ask due some petstore fish oil more expansivethan those from normal pharmacies...
Rayne
post Nov 26 2010, 11:31 AM

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Yeah, I normally don't get those from pet stores except for the MyBeau supplement. Human grade fish body oil is good enough...just make sure the EPA + DHA is at least about 300mg per capsule smile.gif
bchan28
post Nov 26 2010, 11:50 AM

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I am feeding my boy flaxseed oil in the food and do you suggest to add some fish oil in it. Do you give the whole capsule or break in and mix it to the food?

Thanks
Rayne
post Nov 26 2010, 02:16 PM

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I don't really know much about flaxseed oil coz I follow the Prey Model. The reason I give fish body oil or feed fish to Scottie is because I want him to have a balance of Omega 3s and Omega 6s. But if you want to feed fish body oil, it should be fine also I think...so far I don't think I've read any cases where the dog gets ill from fish body oil tongue.gif It depends on the dog whether they will take the capsule as is or you would need to break it. Some dogs will eat the whole capsule, but for Scottie he doesn't like the capsule, so I'll break the capsule and squeeze the oil onto the meat for him.
bchan28
post Nov 26 2010, 02:49 PM

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So I assumed Fish oil is good for my boy too. My boy also dun like anything in capsule form.

Thanks
freakfingers12
post Dec 7 2010, 08:57 AM

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I was just having a random discussion with a friend that day. What if you were to base your dog's diet solely on chicken rather than varying it? Would prey model that way still be considered better than budget pet foods like Pedigree and Alpo?
luffy4688
post Dec 7 2010, 10:12 AM

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QUOTE(Rayne @ Nov 26 2010, 02:16 PM)
I don't really know much about flaxseed oil coz I follow the Prey Model. The reason I give fish body oil or feed fish to Scottie is because I want him to have a balance of Omega 3s and Omega 6s. But if you want to feed fish body oil, it should be fine also I think...so far I don't think I've read any cases where the dog gets ill from fish body oil tongue.gif It depends on the dog whether they will take the capsule as is or you would need to break it. Some dogs will eat the whole capsule, but for Scottie he doesn't like the capsule, so I'll break the capsule and squeeze the oil onto the meat for him.
*
Remember, if you feed fish/flaxseed oil regularly, to supplement it with Vit E, or make sure their regular diet has sufficient vit E.

This post has been edited by luffy4688: Dec 7 2010, 10:13 AM
derking96
post Feb 8 2011, 09:41 PM

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may i know whether http://www.furrenz.com 1 good or bad.... and may i know how much a shih tzu puppy at around 2-3 month must eat 1 day,and the price???
alkt
post Feb 17 2011, 01:49 AM

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Good day all!

After spending few days researching about BARF and by reading from this thread, i went to my wet market this morning and bought a big pork bone, minced meat and chicken organs for my 6 months old Mastiff pup. Doubt he is a pure mastiff as my dad-in-law told me he's mixed (his neighbour gave it to him, claimed to be a breeder in Johor) and then my dad-in-law passes Bobby the Mastiff to me.

Ok long story short, fed my pup the minced meat, chicken heart and a gizzard for breakfast. He ate them slowly and ended up finishing them for the 1st time cos all this while he has been eating dog kibbles. Normally after eating dog kibbles, he'll poop a lot and it smells bad! After the raw meat consumption, his poop shrinks and doesn't smell at all. Quite happy with the results.

As for dinner, i gave him the big pork bone with meat, a drumstick and some chicken organs such as heart and a gizzard. He slowly ate them unlike dog kibbles, totally gobbled them up.

Now what i need to do is, find other variety of meats and give it to Bobby and will definitely order some products from Rayne sometime next week smile.gif

Quick question though, Bobby is kinda especially active after eating the raw foods. I guess this is the side effect of raw food? laugh.gif

Check out the following pics.
3 months old:-
user posted image

Present:-
user posted image
luffy4688
post Feb 17 2011, 04:02 PM

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It's good you've done your research before starting your dog on a barf diet. smile.gif

1 thing that you should always ensure when making a homemade diet is to ensure it is not lacking any minerals or vitamins the dog need. Especially seeing your puppy is a large breed dog and will still grow a lot more, thus he needs all the proper nutrients.

What I would advice if you're unsure or not fully confident with the diet you're giving him yet is to supplement his barf meals with a high quality kibble as well. You could say feed the kibble for breakfast, and barf for dinner. Then at least you could be assured he is getting the nutrition he needs for a growing boy.
alkt
post Feb 18 2011, 10:12 AM

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Thanks luffy4688 for the advices.

Fed him dog kibbles earlier about 9am but he only ate half of it...now at 10am only continue to eat finish the rest laugh.gif

genielee_83
post Jul 9 2011, 12:36 AM

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Rayne, i have two labs. Both stay with me for 3 years. Their age unknown coz adopted.

male is smaller compared to standard lab size( large or medium?), female is like mongrel's height.. maybe can consider as medium?

I juz used furrenze calculator to calculate a 15kg. it stated 2.1kg per week. So one whole chicken enough for a week? need to purchase extra necks and organs like hearts?
genielee_83
post Jul 9 2011, 09:24 AM

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Day One on Prey:
mum is chopping up fresh whole chickens so i asked for the head neck and legs parts.
Fed to my boy and girl. I tried one leg each.
Big boy sniffs and chomped down in 2 minutes. Little girl sniff and think and sniff and chomp in 10 minutes. She's a very polite eater..

Next i gave my boy head neck, he pick up , put down many times. I pat his head and coaz him.. he bit me.. first time in 3 years.. maybe he's protective over a proper meal? I'm not even close to the chicken ..ouch~~ sad.gif
devil86
post Jul 9 2011, 07:20 PM

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QUOTE(genielee_83 @ Jul 9 2011, 12:36 AM)
Rayne, i have two labs. Both stay with me for 3 years. Their age unknown coz adopted.

male is smaller compared to standard lab size( large or medium?), female is like mongrel's height.. maybe can consider as medium?

I juz used furrenze calculator to calculate a 15kg. it stated 2.1kg per week. So one whole chicken enough for a week? need to purchase extra necks and organs like hearts?
*
if u r feeding prey, u need to feed the whole part of the "animal", like a whole duck, chicken, rabbit, fish etc...this include all the organ inside the "animal"...u dun have to add extra necks or organs, as long as u feed the whole part of the "chicken" if u feeding chicken, u can divide the whole "animal" into few part so that u can feed them to ur kids in different days. Ur furkids will get a balance nutrition in the long run.

Ideal feeding amount of the food PER DAY is 3% of ur furkid ideal weight for adult, 10% of the weight for a puppy.
genielee_83
post Jul 9 2011, 09:49 PM

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ok. thanks.
I just grab what my mum would usually throw away..
Wanna see how they react to raw.
Now, chicken is rm7.50/kg in kuching. Don't know semenanjung how much..same or not..

if i practice prey,can i grind the chicken alternate with chopped?
My little one have difficulty chow chow the bones..so kinda got me thinking.

This post has been edited by genielee_83: Jul 9 2011, 10:08 PM
devil86
post Jul 10 2011, 12:14 AM

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QUOTE(genielee_83 @ Jul 9 2011, 09:49 PM)
ok. thanks.
I just grab what my mum would usually throw away..
Wanna see how they react to raw.
Now, chicken is rm7.50/kg in kuching. Don't know semenanjung how much..same or not..

if i practice prey,can i grind the chicken alternate with chopped?
My little one have difficulty chow chow the bones..so kinda got me thinking.
*
U can grind it or chop it into chunk, no problem...but i personally prefer chunks...their teeth wont get dirty so easy =P

This post has been edited by devil86: Jul 10 2011, 12:15 AM
genielee_83
post Jul 11 2011, 11:20 AM

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Just back buying chicken for my precious.
Prices at Pusing, Ipoh:
chicken with head leg rm8/kg
old chicken ( headless and feetless) rm5.50/kg
chicken biasa rm8.50/kg--i think

minced meat ( skin+head+neck) rm4/2kg

I only managed to buy old chicken coz wish to start aArf but not enough money. Is that alright?
genielee_83
post Jul 12 2011, 06:23 PM

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Day 3:
Hotdog and Sushi are dealing with raw just fine.
Now even the slow eater Sushi is having a great time eating raw.
I just mix a bit of their regular My Beau.
I've never tried chopping meat so fiercely. Like barbarian. Whack Whack Whack!! thumbup.gif

This post has been edited by genielee_83: Jul 12 2011, 06:23 PM
mavericksam
post Jul 13 2011, 09:59 AM

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QUOTE(genielee_83 @ Jul 9 2011, 09:24 AM)
Day One on Prey:
Next i gave my boy head neck, he pick up , put down many times. I pat his head and coaz him.. he bit me.. first time in 3 years.. maybe he's protective over a proper meal? I'm not even close to the chicken ..ouch~~  sad.gif
*
seems like a behaviour problem rather than a food problem. gotta show your furkid who is the boss. make him wait before food and during food if he growls when you are around, step in between his food and him and not let him eat till he stops growling...

QUOTE(genielee_83 @ Jul 9 2011, 09:49 PM)
if i practice prey,can i grind the chicken alternate with chopped?
My little one have difficulty chow chow the bones..so kinda got me thinking.
*
give whole piece. it would be better for the development of their teeth and also gets them chewing (helps them relieves stress as well)

QUOTE(genielee_83 @ Jul 12 2011, 06:23 PM)
Day 3:
Hotdog and Sushi are dealing with raw just fine.
Now even the slow eater Sushi is having a great time eating raw.
I just mix a bit of their regular My Beau.
I've never tried chopping meat so fiercely. Like barbarian. Whack Whack Whack!!  thumbup.gif
*
are you mixing? i don't think you need to mix at all. anyway unless you are practicing whole prey model, you don't really need to feed whole chick with innards and all at one go. innards could be fed once a week and sometimes you could even feed raw eggs.
anyway whichever part of meat would be fine. i personally rotates between chick drumsticks, thighs and breast meat; lamb or mutton shoulders and beefs... just remember that calcium (from bones) is a must too... depending if you have budget, then you could rotate more often, else have something main and others comes in once in a while would be fine too. just remember that when you are introducing a new meat to them, give them time to adjust (means feed them the same thing for a while) else they may have loose poop...

MacchiatoCJ
post Jul 13 2011, 01:56 PM

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I have a 7 years old shih tzu who have extreme skin sensitivity. Remember when she was 1 year old, changed her kibbles to a lower grade/cheaper price, she started to have rashes all over her body at the 3rd day.
On and off she would get infection but past month her skin infection got more serious as she always scratch herself so hard until it bleeds.
Early June 2011, her skin got scars and I make her wear UFO head cover and tee so she could scratch herself, and after 2-3 weeks her skin got better and I stop making her to wear those things as it is really hardache to see her climb the stairs while keep on hitting the UFO head cover.
Just a week later, I came home seeing her neck with a scar covered with blood.
Started to do a little research on skin allergies and kibbles notice that the kibbles i have been feeding is only at grade 3, and realize it might be the root cause to her skin infections as I only feed her kibbles and apple before.
After more research and notice about BARF diet and tried that last week. I was first really afraid she might not take it well and all this while I have the mindset where dogs eat kibbles is a lot more healthy.
So far we have tried raw egg with shell, chicken wings, chicken thigh, chicken breast, carrots and sweet potatoes, yogurt, and apple.
Though that is only for a week + now, but I do feel that she seldom scratch herself and she is a lot more active and happy.
This is my personal experience and I would really love to share BARF diet with the rest of the pet lovers here.
And 1 question to the pros here, since my dog have skin allergies, what kind of meat can improve that? And fish oil is benefit to the fur instead of skin, right?
genielee_83
post Jul 13 2011, 11:55 PM

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Day 4:
Wow~~ both of them are having a party!
They really enjoy.
And the poop is so small and it dries up really well.
No more smelling poop. The air is so much more cleaner. laugh.gif
devil86
post Jul 18 2011, 01:40 PM

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QUOTE(MacchiatoCJ @ Jul 13 2011, 01:56 PM)
I have a 7 years old shih tzu who have extreme skin sensitivity. Remember when she was 1 year old, changed her kibbles to a lower grade/cheaper price, she started to have rashes all over her body at the 3rd day.
On and off she would get infection but past month her skin infection got more serious as she always scratch herself so hard until it bleeds.
Early June 2011, her skin got scars and I make her wear UFO head cover and tee so she could scratch herself, and after 2-3 weeks her skin got better and I stop making her to wear those things as it is really hardache to see her climb the stairs while keep on hitting the UFO head cover.
Just a week later, I came home seeing her neck with a scar covered with blood.
Started to do a little research on skin allergies and kibbles notice that the kibbles i have been feeding is only at grade 3, and realize it might be the root cause to her skin infections as I only feed her kibbles and apple before.
After more research and notice about BARF diet and tried that last week. I was first really afraid she might not take it well and all this while I have the mindset where dogs eat kibbles is a lot more healthy.
So far we have tried raw egg with shell, chicken wings, chicken thigh, chicken breast, carrots and sweet potatoes, yogurt, and apple.
Though that is only for a week + now, but I do feel that she seldom scratch herself and she is a lot more active and happy.
This is my personal experience and I would really love to share BARF diet with the rest of the pet lovers here.
And 1 question to the pros here, since my dog have skin allergies, what kind of meat can improve that? And fish oil is benefit to the fur instead of skin, right?
*
Great to know that BARF feeding improve ur kid conditions smile.gif

For the skin allergies, try to feed ur kid the sardin fish, i mean the whole raw sardin fish....u can buy from the supermarket and wet market...

If i'm not mistaken, the mutton meat can also help to improve the skin condition....

If u worried the fish bones will hurt ur kid, although my kid has no problem to eat the whole fish, you can feed the fish mince to ur kid. I would always recommend the BARF feeder (especially the "new joiner" tongue.gif ) to buy from furrenz.com, they provide good products, good advice for barf, and with the reasonable price laugh.gif


I had fed my kids the sardin fish, beef, wild boar meat and mutton mixed with the organ meat, eggs, vege and fuits....she loves them all biggrin.gif

Btw, can anyone here recommend any good multivitamin for me to add into my kid's BARF? and where can i buy...?

This post has been edited by devil86: Jul 18 2011, 01:40 PM
genielee_83
post Jul 20 2011, 11:07 AM

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Dear Devil, will chicken give flaky skin like dandruff?
Multivitamin? i browsed a certain mandarin forum, got one seller selling various kind of vits. Mine, i just put MY Beau for the omega.
genielee_83
post Jul 20 2011, 11:12 AM

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Chewy for teeth

Sk Pet Store
xDingx
post Jul 20 2011, 12:49 PM

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edited

This post has been edited by xDingx: Jul 20 2011, 01:01 PM
devil86
post Jul 20 2011, 01:04 PM

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QUOTE(genielee_83 @ Jul 20 2011, 11:07 AM)
Dear Devil, will chicken give flaky skin like dandruff?
Multivitamin? i browsed a certain mandarin forum, got one seller selling various kind of vits. Mine, i just put MY Beau for the omega.
*
I dun think chicken will cause the flaky skin like wat u mentioned smile.gif

normally i put chicken wings or neck (sometime i put the whole sardin fish) as the source of the bone, and mixed with other meat (beef, mutton, etc...), organ, fruit and vege...

So my girl has eating the raw chicken for over a year...no skin problem found biggrin.gif instead, she is very healthy and active...hehe...



I know myBeau is very good for the skin and coat...but i'm looking for a good multivitamin as a supplement into the BARF...in case the barf i prepared lack of any vitamin or nutrition, the multivitamin can help tongue.gif\


But from this Vitamin Nutrition Chart, seem like the ingredients i put in my girl's barf contain all the vitamins stated in the chart... hmm.gif
genielee_83
post Jul 20 2011, 03:10 PM

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So i think enough. I also " think" my Lab needs some multi to strengthen the legs..
Why flaky skin..Looks like the Clear Hair shampoo ad..
"It's snowing when i'm brushing him. And i think that part is a bit out of reach". He's a bit cranky when i brush the thigh part..
Maybe is the bath? Anything u can rec for shampoo( flaky skin)?
devil86
post Jul 20 2011, 03:56 PM

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QUOTE(genielee_83 @ Jul 20 2011, 03:10 PM)
So i think enough. I also " think" my Lab needs some multi to strengthen the legs..
Why flaky skin..Looks like the Clear Hair shampoo ad..
"It's snowing when i'm brushing him. And i think that part is a bit out of reach". He's a bit cranky when i brush the thigh part..
Maybe is the bath? Anything u can rec for shampoo( flaky skin)?
*
hmm....did u cleanse thoroughly the shampoo when u bath ur lab? or u bath him too often? it is better to bath ur lab maximum once a week...

or u may change to a better shampoo like pet esthe and others...sorry, i'm not really familiar with the shampoo brand...mayb others can help u...u may go to the poodle thread as well, as they discuss about shampoo quite often... smile.gif
genielee_83
post Jul 23 2011, 05:02 PM

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Barf is great!
My champs are happy and eager waiting their 5pm meal.
There's no flies, no ants and no left - over issues icon_rolleyes.gif
Even their plates are licked squeky clean thumbup.gif


Added on July 23, 2011, 5:03 pmP/s Thanks to preparing Barf, my left arm is strong with all those hacking.

This post has been edited by genielee_83: Jul 23 2011, 05:03 PM
genielee_83
post Aug 14 2011, 07:36 PM

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Pork is now rm7/kg. Now chicken is more expensive.
Time for me to make char siew for my babies rclxms.gif rclxms.gif
xDingx
post Aug 14 2011, 10:38 PM

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QUOTE(genielee_83 @ Aug 14 2011, 07:36 PM)
Pork is now rm7/kg. Now chicken is more expensive.
Time for me to make char siew for my babies  rclxms.gif  rclxms.gif
*
somehow i feel not so comfortable to feed those commercial pork to my girl... normally i feed wild boar to my girl, my grandpa is a wild boar hunter, so my girl can have those meat for free tongue.gif

This post has been edited by xDingx: Aug 14 2011, 10:38 PM
genielee_83
post Aug 17 2011, 09:01 PM

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yo~~ Envy~~
I can't get boar here. Only old chicken at rm5.50 i can afford.
Once a while duck rm7.50/kg or young chicken rm7.50/kg.
Still looking for pork wholesaler for better price.

xdingx, where you from?
xDingx
post Aug 18 2011, 08:16 PM

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QUOTE(genielee_83 @ Aug 17 2011, 09:01 PM)
yo~~ Envy~~
I can't get boar here. Only old chicken at rm5.50 i can afford.
Once a while duck rm7.50/kg or young chicken rm7.50/kg.
Still looking for  pork wholesaler for better price.

xdingx, where you from?
*
i'm at kl, but my grandpa is at pahang smile.gif
genielee_83
post Aug 18 2011, 08:35 PM

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wondering how much boar per kilo now.
Got standard price or not?
yuen300
post Aug 22 2011, 10:04 AM

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For boar, the price is Rm7/kg.
But the only cons is u cannot find it all the times.
Where u live? Maybe I can suggest u some location that has better deal in buying meat.
*Swine is still not my first choice but pig's organs are my choice when the butcher give me the organs for free.


Added on August 22, 2011, 10:13 am
QUOTE(devil86 @ Jul 20 2011, 02:04 PM)
I dun think chicken will cause the flaky skin like wat u mentioned  smile.gif

normally i put chicken wings or neck (sometime i put the whole sardin fish) as the source of the bone, and mixed with other meat (beef, mutton, etc...), organ, fruit and vege...

So my girl has eating the raw chicken for over a year...no skin problem found  biggrin.gif  instead, she is very healthy and active...hehe...
I know myBeau is very good for the skin and coat...but i'm looking for a good multivitamin as a supplement into the BARF...in case the barf i prepared lack of any vitamin or nutrition, the multivitamin can help  tongue.gif\
But from this Vitamin Nutrition Chart, seem like the ingredients i put in my girl's barf contain all the vitamins stated in the chart...  hmm.gif
*
If I am not wrong, the raw meaty forum advices that only supplement that we should put in is the salmon oil.
This is the salmon oil that I used previously.
user posted image

Besides that, maybe the sea kelp as the supplement?
Although it is not a must supplement, it is a good supplement. Just google it and u can find what the magic it does to the dog.

This post has been edited by yuen300: Aug 22 2011, 10:13 AM
genielee_83
post Aug 22 2011, 03:43 PM

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500ml for rm59.90 is good price. Even better after discount.
I gave My Beau. I think 500ml is 59-69rm. Some even selling rm70. Had not yet restock my beau.

* i'm from Ipoh.

This post has been edited by genielee_83: Aug 22 2011, 03:43 PM
yuen300
post Aug 22 2011, 04:30 PM

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QUOTE(genielee_83 @ Aug 22 2011, 04:43 PM)
500ml for rm59.90 is good price. Even better after discount.
I gave My Beau. I think 500ml is 59-69rm. Some even selling rm70. Had not yet restock my beau.

* i'm from Ipoh.
*
Not so familiar with Ipoh, so cannot recommend u good place.
Or u can go to the restaurant that cooked “野味" , maybe u can ask from the restaurant for contacts.

genielee_83
post Aug 22 2011, 05:39 PM

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Recently saw a herd of cows raoming, shitting round my " territory"
The owner so senang, let them roam when tiba masa sembelih earn money.. doh.gif

Ok.. i mean so many cows for me to pick the smallest to kidnap and create "accident" whistling.gif
yuen300
post Aug 22 2011, 08:35 PM

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QUOTE(genielee_83 @ Aug 22 2011, 06:39 PM)
Recently saw a herd of cows raoming, shitting round my " territory"
The owner so senang, let them roam when tiba masa sembelih earn money..  doh.gif

Ok.. i mean so many cows for me to pick the smallest to kidnap  and create "accident" whistling.gif
*
But u need to chop the cow urself b4 u have the free beef for ur dogs. drool.gif
genielee_83
post Aug 23 2011, 06:19 AM

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yalor~ where to look for butcher knife?
I only have fruit and veggie knife ==

If only i can jampi the cow ckean without blood and intestines
xDingx
post Aug 23 2011, 08:41 PM

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haha....i dun feed cow bone to my girl, it is too hard for her....haha...
mrkenjiro
post Oct 17 2011, 01:17 PM

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I've went through the entire 21 pages and I am interested to feed raw to my dog - a GR weighing at 26kg.

My question is - During the transition period, from dry kibble to BARF how should introduce the raw food to the dog. Do I do something like
1st week - feed kibble + raw egg twice a day
2nd week - feed kibble + raw egg morning, barf evening
3rd week - barf only

For those that successfully do this what was your plan?

Rayne
post Oct 17 2011, 04:11 PM

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QUOTE(mrkenjiro @ Oct 17 2011, 01:17 PM)
I've went through the entire 21 pages and I am interested to feed raw to my dog - a GR weighing at 26kg.

My question is - During the transition period, from dry kibble to BARF how should introduce the raw food to the dog. Do I do something like
1st week - feed kibble + raw egg twice a day
2nd week - feed kibble + raw egg morning, barf evening
3rd week - barf only

For those that successfully do this what was your plan?
*
For me, I switched Scottie straight away...as in, let's say yesterday was his last meal was kibble. The next day onwards, it is all raw. No transition period, and he has been doing well on it. I've been feeding him raw for close to 3 years if I remember correctly laugh.gif and he hasn't had any problems with it smile.gif If you are thinking of doing a transition though, might I suggest feeding kibble in the morning and raw in the evening, and not adding an egg just yet. Especially when your dog is new to raw, eggs MAY cause loose poop...or your dog might not like it (depending on your dog). Scottie doesn't like eggs much so I only give it to him once in a blue moon. LOL! Hope this helps smile.gif
berry5788
post Oct 20 2011, 09:38 AM

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hello all,

i wanna ask.. if i would like to prepare BARF, must i add in any supplement? how much apple cider to put in for one whole chicken?
TRiSTAN1002
post Nov 3 2011, 11:52 PM

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QUOTE(berry5788 @ Oct 20 2011, 09:38 AM)
hello all,

i wanna ask.. if i would like to prepare BARF, must i add in any supplement? how much apple cider to put in for one whole chicken?
*
It is not nessecary to give supplements to a healthy dog. And about the apple cider, just about 5-8 drops should do it.
babymiki
post Nov 4 2011, 12:26 AM

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hello all, would like to ask if you guys make ur own BARF or purchase from outside?
i am number 2
post Feb 13 2012, 09:03 PM

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Hi all,

I had been feeding my schnauzer barf for 2 years, i bought the barf from furrenz.com....currently thinking to self make barf to my girl..can anyone tell me where can i get cod fish oil and apple cider vinegar that i can add to my barf?

Thanks.
akuning
post Feb 16 2012, 04:38 PM

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Anyone feeding like人参鸡汤?药材鸡?@@
just to ask whether can feed or not....
pls advice if there is anyone feed before...
KittyKat
post Mar 1 2012, 04:28 PM

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QUOTE(i am number 2 @ Feb 13 2012, 09:03 PM)
Hi all,

I had been feeding my schnauzer barf for 2 years, i bought the barf  from furrenz.com....currently thinking to self make barf to my girl..can anyone tell me where can i get cod fish oil and apple cider vinegar that i can add to my barf?

Thanks.
*
Those organic thingie shops should have. Maybe Nature's Farms, etc
Fitrah
post Apr 9 2012, 06:45 PM

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Just would like to share quotes from Jesse Dallas, author of "Pets Need Wholesome Food Also" and "What's New PussyCat" plus a link regarding wholesome homemade pet food;

"If you really apply some common sense analysis of commercial pet foods, then you are going to begin to notice that in many ways, commercial pet foods are not healthy for our pets and are in fact, no different than fast food diets for humans. Commercial pet foods are killing our pets. I know that some will find this to be a harsh statement, but for those that have suffered the pain of a sick pet, then this statement is anything but harsh and in fact, can be more of an understatement."

~=~

"Feeding a wholesome raw meat diet makes sense to me because I prefer not to focus on the word raw but rather on the word wholesome. Nobody can deny that our pets, just as we humans, need wholesome foods for good health. For some, they will think that commercial pet foods constitute a wholesome diet and that's fair enough. To each their own. But for myself (and hopefully for you too), if we meditate on what constitutes a wholesome diet then our thoughts should lead us to a diet that most closely imitates and resembles what Mother Nature herself would feed."

~=~

"Sad to say, some people just see a pet as a pet and not as living being that requires wholesome foods. It's always difficult for those of us that realize that, as pet guardians, we have a responsibility to treat our pets with love in every way including the food we feed them. I am often asked how can we change those that feed unhealthy pet foods? I always tell people that we should not try to change or convince others, but rather we should be a shining example. When you shine bright your light will eventually guide others too."

~=~

"Hopefully, like me, after learning about wholesome homemade pet food and the benefits of wholesome nutrition, you too will realize the insanity of feeding the enzyme depleted and nutritionally inadequate foods made from overly processed ingredients that a carnivore would never eat in the wild known as commercial pet food"

~=~

Homemade Pet Food -- Holistic Health Care Information For Dog and Cats -- Natural Pet Food

Please do visit the link and spare some time to read the extremely informative articles and a hassle free guide to natural homemade pet food (totally 100% free to read) for the sake of our beloved furry friends smile.gif

This post has been edited by Fitrah: Apr 18 2012, 09:07 PM
yueyi5730
post May 12 2012, 10:00 PM

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can i feed 2 months old puppy raw diet immediately??
Fitrah
post May 13 2012, 06:51 AM

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QUOTE(yueyi5730 @ May 12 2012, 10:00 PM)
can i feed 2 months old puppy raw diet immediately??
*

It's awesome to know you'll be feeding your puppy a wholesome raw meat diet smile.gif

"I do not suggest feeding meat chunks to puppies that are younger than 6 to 8 weeks of age. Each puppy will develop slightly differently, but a puppy should be at least 6 weeks of age before eating meat chunks. When the puppy is younger than this, ground meat should be fed. Ground meat more closely resembles the regurgitated food the mother would provide its puppies. It is at about 6 weeks of age that puppies really begin to be able to eat larger pieces of meat."

This post has been edited by Fitrah: May 14 2012, 02:39 AM
yueyi5730
post May 13 2012, 08:14 AM

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QUOTE(Fitrah @ May 13 2012, 06:51 AM)
It's awesome to know you'll be feeding your puppy wholesome raw meat diet smile.gif

"I do not suggest feeding meat chunks to puppies that are younger than 6 to 8 weeks of age. Each puppy will develop slightly differently, but a puppy should be at least 6 weeks of age before eating meat chunks. When the puppy is younger than this, ground meat should be fed. Ground meat more closely resembles the regurgitated food the mother would provide its puppies. It is at about 6 weeks of age that puppies really begin to be able to eat larger pieces of meat."
*
=) read a lot of benefits on eating raw diet, thank you for the additional info u sent me

i just want to know how u guys handle the mess?
will the puppy develop diarrhea in the begining when u first start the diet?

i was advise to allow the puppy to adpt to my new home before switching him to raw cold turkey
Fitrah
post May 13 2012, 11:03 PM

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QUOTE(yueyi5730 @ May 13 2012, 08:14 AM)
=) read a lot of benefits on eating raw diet, thank you for the additional info u sent me

i just want to know how u guys handle the mess?
will the puppy develop diarrhea in the begining when u first start the diet?

i was advise to allow the puppy to adpt to my new home before switching him to raw cold turkey
*

You're welcome smile.gif

You may spread out a thick piles of newspapers at the bottom of the plate to help prevent messy cleaning afterwards.

Please kindly read this article on Thoughts About Detoxification

I don't think there's a problem if you start introducing your puppy to the wholesome raw meat diet as soon as you brought her home smile.gif

And it's best if you could let the food sit on the counter for at least 1 hour after thawing it in the refrigerator overnight to remove the chill (since cold food shuts down the digestive system).

"If you don't have time to remove the meat and vegetables from the fridge at least 1 hour before feeding, that's okay. The only reason why this is done is to help remove the chill. But if you are in a rush and must feed the food cold, it's okay. It's not the end of the world.

Remember, when letting the food sit on the counter that cats (and some dogs) have been known to eat the food before it's time to eat. So you might need to cover or somehow protect the food.

One additional benefit of letting the food sit on the counter for about 1 hour before feeding is that your puppies can smell the food. This gets many puppies excited and so when it comes time to eat, they're ready to go. However, it's not difficult to get puppies excited about food. They are a growing body and they will be hungry and ready to eat."
xecton
post May 14 2012, 09:15 AM

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Guys, where do you get your raw from?

I buy chicken from Tesco at RM4.99/kg.
Now looking to get some beef. But those are pretty expensive. Cheapest cut is at RM14/kg. And they were also trying to sell me skins and fats for RM7/kg. This is from the butcher.
beawolf64
post May 14 2012, 03:08 PM

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barf recipe for my bengal cat :

1) Raw Meat - Chicken,Beef, Buffalo meat
2) Alfafa sprout
3) Sweet Potato
4) Raw Egg
5) homemade Ground Egg Shell(from fitrah link)
6) Fish Oil.

Additional Suppliment that seperately added from those recipe,and appllied 3 time a week.

1- Brewer Yeast
2- Dr. Clauder Multivitamin


Result = 1 week shedding fur...replace with soft ,pelted gilitter coat...ideal weight, poo and pee less that before plus its odourless...

note : cat will drink water lesser while in Barf Diet
TSWhite Palace
post May 14 2012, 03:28 PM

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QUOTE(beawolf64 @ May 14 2012, 03:08 PM)
barf recipe for my bengal cat :

1) Raw Meat - Chicken,Beef, Buffalo meat
2) Alfafa sprout
3) Sweet Potato
4) Raw Egg
5) homemade Ground Egg Shell(from fitrah link)
6) Fish Oil.

Additional Suppliment that seperately added from those recipe,and appllied 3 time a week.

1- Brewer Yeast
2- Dr. Clauder Multivitamin
Result = 1 week shedding fur...replace with soft ,pelted gilitter coat...ideal weight, poo and pee less that before plus its odourless...

note : cat will drink water lesser while in Barf Diet
*
Aside from that, poo is small and solid, non sticky on cat sand, save on $$ for cat sand also. biggrin.gif
beawolf64
post May 14 2012, 04:11 PM

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QUOTE(White Palace @ May 14 2012, 03:28 PM)
Aside from that, poo is small and solid, non sticky on cat sand, save on $$ for cat sand also.  biggrin.gif
*
+1 rclxms.gif
A-Note
post May 14 2012, 09:25 PM

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would it smell? cos i keep my dog in my room most of the time when i go out for class :/ i scared ltr come back the whole room smells like rotten raw meat
TSWhite Palace
post May 14 2012, 09:54 PM

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Encourage your dog to finish it once serve as raw food is not advisable to be placed in room temperature for hours. Just like normal meat, left uncooked outside. smile.gif
A-Note
post May 14 2012, 10:08 PM

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QUOTE(White Palace @ May 14 2012, 09:54 PM)
Encourage your dog to finish it once serve as raw food is not advisable to be placed in room temperature for hours. Just like normal meat, left uncooked outside.  smile.gif
*
wow is that your maltese in your picture? smile.gif so whiteee!! mine's starting to turn brown sad.gif if i feed him with BARF the coat will be prettier rite? is it advisable to feed him with already-prepared barf like http://furrenz.com/?
TSWhite Palace
post May 14 2012, 11:38 PM

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Yes, thats my maltese. Picture taken with morning sunlight, hence the brightness. smile.gif

Yes, its alright to feed with prepared BARF. You can google more on BARF and how can it improves dog's coat.
A-Note
post May 14 2012, 11:56 PM

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QUOTE(White Palace @ May 14 2012, 11:38 PM)
Yes, thats my maltese. Picture taken with morning sunlight, hence the brightness. smile.gif

Yes, its alright to feed with prepared BARF. You can google more on BARF and how can it improves dog's coat.
*
should i just change his diet from kibbles to barf straight? :/ Im kinda worried if he doesn't like it and leave it.... and i also scared he puke all over the place in my room especially my bed -.- he loves hanging around on my bed


Added on May 15, 2012, 12:03 amand i see your maltese... there are like literally no tear stain... how do i remove them? its becoming a huge problem for me for my puppy sleep.gif the tear stain non stop one i wipe away d tmr appear again

This post has been edited by A-Note: May 15 2012, 12:03 AM
babymiki
post May 15 2012, 02:06 AM

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try health and shine!
TSWhite Palace
post May 15 2012, 11:22 AM

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QUOTE(A-Note @ May 14 2012, 11:56 PM)
should i just change his diet from kibbles to barf straight? :/ Im kinda worried if he doesn't like it and leave it.... and i also scared he puke all over the place in my room especially my bed -.- he loves hanging around on my bed


Added on May 15, 2012, 12:03 amand i see your maltese... there are like literally no tear stain... how do i remove them? its becoming a huge problem for me for my puppy sleep.gif the tear stain non stop one i wipe away d tmr appear again
*
U can try switching him gradually rather than straight away change it to BARF. For pups who never taste BARF before, they might not like it at first, but after a few times, they'll go crazy over it. tongue.gif

How old is your pup? Tear stain can be caused by several factors such as teething, ear infection, stress, etc. Health N Shine only solves tear stain which is caused by red yeast bacteria which caused the tears to be red and eventually turn brown/black. Other than that, daily eyes wiping is also important.
Renelle
post May 16 2012, 10:46 AM

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fyou may try eye vita as well for tear stain. my pooch loves it!
yiyibrowers
post May 16 2012, 04:50 PM

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my dog enjoying eat those own recipe but those meat can be cooked... cos i always put cooked meat with some carrot or maybe occasionally dried meat that we usually buy for cny season..
melstrawberry81
post May 17 2012, 11:51 AM

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cooked food has no nutrition value to dogs already
yiyibrowers
post May 17 2012, 12:46 PM

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OOhh... I thought is better cooked for meat and those fish instead of raw meat or fish... but my dog enjoy eating the cooked fish instead of raw fish...
A-Note
post May 20 2012, 05:19 PM

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uuhh i want to ask um... about the furrenz right... we have to go their shop and pick up? im staying quite far away... isit possible for them to mail me the food? :/
Furrenz.com
post May 20 2012, 09:53 PM

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Hi, we do have delivery available for our raw food throughout Klang Valley, Penang and also Johor. Do place an order in our website and we'll arrange it for you, thanks.

This post has been edited by Furrenz.com: May 20 2012, 10:07 PM
xecton
post May 21 2012, 09:07 AM

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QUOTE(yiyibrowers @ May 17 2012, 12:46 PM)
OOhh... I thought is better cooked for meat and those fish instead of raw meat or fish... but my dog enjoy eating the cooked fish instead of raw fish...
*
If you are feeding cooked, make sure to remove the bones.
Cooked bones are hard and can harm your dog.
mfak0511
post May 25 2012, 04:59 PM

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I'm going to change my kitten's diet to BARF
I changed to Royal Canin last month, and my mum said "Ape nampak kurus je kucing-kucing ko ni..tak makan ke ape?"

So kesian with my kittens and will (this weekend try the recipe from Beawolf (great kucing guy)
TSWhite Palace
post May 25 2012, 05:12 PM

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QUOTE(mfak0511 @ May 25 2012, 04:59 PM)
I'm going to change my kitten's diet to BARF
I changed to Royal Canin last month, and my mum said "Ape nampak kurus je kucing-kucing ko ni..tak makan ke ape?"

So kesian with my kittens and will (this weekend try the recipe from Beawolf (great kucing guy)
*
U'll see a big difference in your kitten with BARF. smile.gif
mfak0511
post May 25 2012, 05:14 PM

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thanks sifu
duke_nikkon
post May 26 2012, 04:15 PM

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I have a question here... can dog eat raw fish in whole? including the bones and head?? 0.0
If yes, Which type of fishes are recommended or, which type are NOT?
mfak0511
post May 27 2012, 03:35 PM

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tried it, and spent RM166 yesterday
and one of my cat don't even bother with it

and the eggs are telur ayam kampung fyi
i have to go to certain length to get the real ayam kampung's egg

why is she so picky over her food? shes thinner since i bought her

i tried everything already..sigh

how can i make her eat when she's not even bother with her survivability and well being..so odd of a cat she is..doesn't like other cat i ever know or read in articles/books etc..

and i'm not gonna spend another cent just to entertain her picky behaviour

i guess i'm gonna starve her to death then..
RIP Mo

tried: already starved her 25 hours, she's not gonna eat either, even her old kibbles

This post has been edited by mfak0511: May 27 2012, 03:38 PM
TSWhite Palace
post May 27 2012, 08:03 PM

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QUOTE(mfak0511 @ May 27 2012, 03:35 PM)
tried it, and spent RM166 yesterday
and one of my cat don't even bother with it

and the eggs are telur ayam kampung fyi
i have to go to certain length to get the real ayam kampung's egg

why is she so picky over her food? shes thinner since i bought her

i tried everything already..sigh

how can i make her eat when she's not even bother with her survivability and well being..so odd of a cat she is..doesn't like other cat i ever know or read in articles/books etc..

and i'm not gonna spend another cent just to entertain her picky behaviour

i guess i'm gonna starve her to death then..
RIP Mo

tried: already starved her 25 hours, she's not gonna eat either, even her old kibbles
*
Did u leave her food (barf/kibble) available 24/7?
Fitrah
post May 27 2012, 09:54 PM

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QUOTE(duke_nikkon @ May 26 2012, 04:15 PM)
I have a question here... can dog eat raw fish in whole? including the bones and head?? 0.0
If yes, Which type of fishes are recommended or, which type are NOT?
*

Please kindly read this article on Feeding Fish To Dogs and Cats
mfak0511
post May 27 2012, 10:17 PM

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QUOTE(White Palace @ May 27 2012, 08:03 PM)
Did u leave her food (barf/kibble) available 24/7?
*
she just ate right now..i found out that the problem is the odour of the food, the smell of vegetables is stronger than the smell of meats
right shes eating fine

REEN YONG
post May 27 2012, 10:43 PM

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After reading and was told that barf is good for dog. I tried it on my beagle but turn up she need to see the vet. I only gave her few pieces of raw chicken feet and wing for breakfast and dinner i still give her kibbles (Acana Lamb). But the result is she shedding her fur extensively only at the area near her belly. Brought her to see vet and was told that is food allergy and the vet told me to STOP giving her any raw meat. cry.gif
duke_nikkon
post May 27 2012, 11:26 PM

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QUOTE(Fitrah @ May 27 2012, 10:54 PM)
Please kindly read this article on Feeding Fish To Dogs and Cats
*
thank you bro! Have got some mackerel for the furballs at home rclxms.gif can't wait to feed them tomorrow
TSWhite Palace
post May 28 2012, 12:04 AM

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QUOTE(mfak0511 @ May 27 2012, 10:17 PM)
she just ate right now..i found out that the problem is the odour of the food, the smell of vegetables is stronger than the smell of meats
right shes eating fine
*
Good that your cat is eating now. BARF for cats is different from BARF for dogs. Cats are carnivorous, they eat more meat compared to dog, tend to be more fussy too. Do some online reading and you'll get some idea. smile.gif


yueyi5730
post Jun 8 2012, 11:37 PM

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feeding raw to my pup 3rd day already.. she's 4 months old and accepts raw well.. no watery poop.. well controled poop and good consistency.. =) pretty pleased.. how often do u deworm ur dogs?
Fitrah
post Jun 9 2012, 03:04 AM

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QUOTE(yueyi5730 @ Jun 8 2012, 11:37 PM)
feeding raw to my pup 3rd day already.. she's 4 months old and accepts raw well.. no watery poop.. well controled poop and good consistency.. =) pretty pleased.. how often do u deworm ur dogs?
*

It's wonderfully great to know you've started feeding your puppy a wholesome raw meat diet smile.gif

"Once you begin feeding a raw meat diet, the body will naturally expel worms when the body has reached a point where the body's level of health and immune system is strong enough.

What this means to you is that as the body gets healthy, the environment within the body begins to change meaning it is no longer is an environment that worms like to live in. Thus the worms actually want to leave. But in addition, we have to wait until the immune system is strong enough that the immune system begins to natural expel worms.

In an adult dog or cat, once they begin eating a raw meat diet, this could begin in as little as two weeks. Whether you see the worms leave or not is a different story. The worms could leave with a bowel movement, by coughing the worms up, when the dog or cat vomits and/or by sneezing.

But with a puppy or kitten we have to wait until they are about 8 to 10 months of age before this begins to happen. Why? Because while an adult dog or cat can obtain a strong immune system within about 2 weeks of feeding a raw meat diet, a puppy or kitten will not have an immune system that is working at 100% until they are about 8 to 10 months of age.

When you then allow their immune system to naturally expel worms, at about 8 to 10 months of age, then you also help to provide them with natural immunity to worms in the future.

Most vets will deworm a puppy or kitten at about 6 months of age. But this is too early and if you are patient, the worms will naturally come out starting as early as 8 months, but probably more likely around 10 months and possibly lasting until about 14 months of age. It's not that you will see worms be expelled every day but you have to be patient for the body to fully cleanse itself and to cleanse any babies that have yet to be born. Thus one of the reasons why a puppy or kitten can still expel worms up to about 14 months of age.

When the body pushes the worms out of the body, the worms will be full size and 100% alive. The worms won't be dead — they will be moving and scrambling for their survival. After the worms are expelled, the worms will survive probably for about 12 hours before naturally dying.

If you feed a commercial pet food diet or any type of cooked meat diet then our dogs and cats will always be susceptible to worms because any type of cooked meat diet shuts down the digestive system, begins to create mucous and an unhealthy environment within the body which in turn creates the perfect habitat for worms. But, when you feed a raw meat diet, the body keeps itself clean and the worms no longer have a suitable host body."

~=~

"Homemade pet food is not only free of such harmful additives, but has the added benefit of containing natural remedies for common ailments.

The acidity of raw meat destroys the mucous in which worms live. Since these parasites cannot survive in a healthy, mucous free system, homemade pet food has the added advantage of increasing the animal's vitality and reducing the vet bills for the owner."

~=~

"Many people need to give their pets a deworming pill to get rid of the worms. Unfortunately, these deworming pills only address the symptoms. When you see worms leave the body without the use of medication, people become believers in the importance of wholesome food. People begin to understand how wholesome food helps, at a simple level, the body's own natural healing ability."

~=~

"Fleas — this word alone conjures an image of ruthless, blood sucking parasites and in many ways, this description is correct. Fleas are members of what I call the M.N.W.R.U. (Mother Nature's Waste Reduction Union). Unfortunately, fleas never go on strike and unfortunately they fully understand their job description.

A flea's job description in nature is to suck the blood from animals and they are more naturally found on dead carcasses. Unfortunately, fleas don't realize that our animals are alive. However, because so many pets are not as healthy as they should or could be, fleas may become attracted to a pet's body. We must try and get your pet to optimal health because otherwise to fleas, your pet's skin may be similar to that of a dead carcass.

Realizing that fleas are only trying to do their job, a job which in Nature's scheme of things is very important, we can begin to help minimize the numbers of fleas that hop on to our pets and maximize the number of fleas that hop off.

To help fleas hop off our pets, one should try to minimize the amount of toxins that enter your companion and maximize the toxins that leave.

Your pet's skin is not immune to chemicals or poisons. It is important that we, the guardians of pets, become more educated. The arsenal used to rid pets of fleas should be sound common sense, natural products and wholesome food."

~=~

"We should be glad in an uncanny way that our companion has fleas. Fleas are a sign of a problem. We should not look at fleas as being the problem. True, fleas can pass tapeworms (healthy animals should not get tapeworms) into the system of our animals and can even cause anemia, but ultimately they are our friends because they're letting us know that our companions are not healthy.

An unhealthy system has a low immune system and lacks vitamins and minerals. Thus, really the problem is an unhealthy body with the symptom being a flea infestation.

To treat the problem we must solve the malnutrition. Contrary to popular belief, commercial pet foods are not complete, if they were, we wouldn't be seeing so many cases of chronic disease in dogs and cats today.

Commercial pet foods may contain unnecessary preservatives and lack real nutrition. Since 90% of disease is nutritionally related, the goal of every dog or cat guardian should be to feed a quick and simple homemade diet that contains maximum nutrition and is natural.

A homemade diet simulates what dogs and cats would get in the wild, does not take long to prepare and is extremely affordable, especially when you consider veterinarian bills become virtually non–existent as now the animal is amazingly healthy."

~=~

"Many people, including myself, have seen dramatic results and improvements in their pet's health by simply feeding natural and wholesome food.

Some have had to cancel appointments to get their pet's teeth cleaned after introducing natural foods, other have seen skin and coat problems improve or disappear completely; some pets experience less of a flea problem, bad breath, bad gas, and bad body odour have also been known to mysteriously disappear after introducing homemade food (although it is no mystery when you understand what is happening).

Some people have experienced even greater benefits from simply feeding homemade food. The one thing I have discovered is that nothing surprises me. The stories I have heard from people and the things I have seen are absolutely incredible and heart stopping. I have heard of cats clearing all of their symptoms of feline urilogical syndrome, feline leukemia, and even feline AIDS after incorporating wholesome food."
yuen300
post Jun 9 2012, 01:22 PM

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QUOTE(duke_nikkon @ May 26 2012, 05:15 PM)
I have a question here... can dog eat raw fish in whole? including the bones and head?? 0.0
If yes, Which type of fishes are recommended or, which type are NOT?
*
Best fish will be talapia. Actually, any fish you can feed everyday besides salmon.
The only thing you need to worry is that ensure nothing sharp is inside your fish body. Other than that, fish is harmless.
genielee_83
post Jun 10 2012, 08:24 PM

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hmm~ i think i'll try fish when i do my next shopping for chicken and veggies.
Mum even said:" You ar~ never cooked, yet you go to the market to buy meat and veggies for you dogs and iggy. Don't know how to describe you."
TSWhite Palace
post Jun 10 2012, 11:16 PM

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QUOTE(genielee_83 @ Jun 10 2012, 08:24 PM)
hmm~ i think i'll try fish when i do my next shopping for chicken and veggies.
Mum even said:" You ar~ never cooked, yet you go to the market to buy meat and veggies for you dogs and iggy. Don't know how to describe you."
*
Buy meat and vege is not consider cooking, buying is much easier tongue.gif
Jo1603
post Jun 10 2012, 11:47 PM

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My JRT is 1.5 year old and weight about 7kg.
How many gm of barf should I be feeding him?

Thank you.
TSWhite Palace
post Jun 10 2012, 11:54 PM

Angel - Top Maltese 2006 @ Best Malaysian Bred In Show
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QUOTE(Jo1603 @ Jun 10 2012, 11:47 PM)
My JRT is 1.5 year old and weight about 7kg.
How many gm of barf should I be feeding him?

Thank you.
*
Hi,

Feeding guideline is 3% if you want to maintain his weight. 3% of 1.5kg is 45gsm daily.

3% is a guideline, u can re-adjust (add or minus) if u find him too thin/fat after consuming for 1-2weeks. Considering your dog is an active breed, it might need more than 3%.

Hope this helps. biggrin.gif
Jo1603
post Jun 10 2012, 11:58 PM

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Got it, thank you.

I tried giving him raw meat, he sniff and walk off ...how to make him want to eat icon_question.gif

He only eat raw eggs...and boiled lamb bone with herbs...

Fruits and vege also picky, certain types only he take.

Any tricks to make my boy want to eat it daily?
TSWhite Palace
post Jun 11 2012, 01:34 AM

Angel - Top Maltese 2006 @ Best Malaysian Bred In Show
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QUOTE(Jo1603 @ Jun 10 2012, 11:58 PM)
Got it, thank you.

I tried giving him raw meat, he sniff and walk off ...how to make him want to eat  icon_question.gif

He only eat raw eggs...and boiled lamb bone with herbs...

Fruits and vege also picky, certain types only he take.

Any tricks to make my boy want to eat it daily?
*
Perhaps u can give him when he's hungry. If usually u feed him in morning, try skip the kibbles and feed raw instead. Add in raw eggs too perhaps.

Will boiled lamb bone be too hard for your dog? We don't encourage feeding cooked bones for dogs.

If u have the time, u can try grind vege n fruits and mix with the meat.
mfak0511
post Jun 11 2012, 11:24 AM

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Help,
my cat is very ill
feed her BARF and shes sick, vomitting and diarrhea
will throw up 1 hour ~ 4 hours after eating anything
right now i have to feed her plain water only
went to the vet and she gave me clavamox and activated charcoal which is costed me RM25
right now I'm broke only left RM 3 coins i can't go to the vet with empty pocket

bought RM250++ of quality vegetables and meat just to make BARF for her, because she so thin, i thought giving her pure uncooked meat will make her fluffy like she used to be T.T

no fate.......

i'm a student and used all my practical training allowance

help me, what can i do to make her better?

she is sick since Friday

This post has been edited by mfak0511: Jun 11 2012, 11:24 AM
Fitrah
post Jun 11 2012, 08:36 PM

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QUOTE(mfak0511 @ Jun 11 2012, 11:24 AM)
Help,
my cat is very ill
feed her BARF and shes sick, vomitting and diarrhea
will throw up 1 hour ~ 4 hours after eating anything
right now i have to feed her plain water only
went to the vet and she gave me clavamox and activated charcoal which is costed me RM25
right now I'm broke only left RM 3 coins i can't go to the vet with empty pocket

bought RM250++ of quality vegetables and meat just to make BARF for her, because she so thin, i thought giving her pure uncooked meat will make her fluffy like she used to be T.T

no fate.......

i'm a student and used all my practical training allowance

help me, what can i do to make her better?

she is sick since Friday
*

Please kindly read these articles on;
How To Prevent Vomiting While Feeding Your Dog or Cat Natural Homemade Pet Food
Enzymes — The Benefits of Supplemental Enzymes for Dogs and Cats

Thoughts About Detoxification
Review of Detoxification
mfak0511
post Jun 11 2012, 10:39 PM

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QUOTE(Fitrah @ Jun 11 2012, 08:36 PM)
Thank you very much mate
you're the most kind of a man

but I quit giving my cats raw foods I guess
because I am don't trust those articles any more unless they're cited from scholarly works such as research papers and theses

because I hate so much seeing my kitten suffer from starvation after series of vomiting and diarrhoea

but thank you again my friend

I guess this is where the part that I must put some emoticons
smile.gif
there you go
Fitrah
post Jun 11 2012, 11:45 PM

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QUOTE(mfak0511 @ Jun 11 2012, 10:39 PM)
Thank you very much mate
you're the most kind of a man

but I quit giving my cats raw foods I guess
because I am don't trust those articles any more unless they're cited from scholarly works such as research papers and theses

because I hate so much seeing my kitten suffer from starvation after series of vomiting and diarrhoea

but thank you again my friend

I guess this is where the part that I must put some emoticons
smile.gif
there you go
*

Thoughts About Health Concerns

Pet Allergies

Nutrition The Raw Truth

"Feeding a kitten a wholesome raw meat diet is mind boggling simple. Not only that, but doing so will help your kitten grow up to be healthier than those that have not eaten a wholesome raw meat diet. In fact, I live most of the year in the Philippines where I used to operate a cat sanctuary. All of the cats that I fed a raw meat diet too were stray cats — they were scruffy and dirty looking. But after I began feeding them a wholesome raw meat diet, they started to get so healthy that everyone thought I gave them a bath — which of course is hard to do with a domesticated cat, let alone a wild outdoor cat. When I had to close my cat sanctuary due to the fact I had to move, I took along two kittens that I adopted. I have the healthiest cats in the Philippines. If you were to see them in person, you would be amazed at how vibrant their hair is, how well their skeletal system has formed, how much their eyes sparkle and so on. Truly, feeding a wholesome raw meat diet is the best thing one can do for their kitten (and puppy too)."

~=~

"Many people, including myself, have seen dramatic results and improvements in their pet's health by simply feeding natural and wholesome food.

Some have had to cancel appointments to get their pet's teeth cleaned after introducing natural foods, other have seen skin and coat problems improve or disappear completely; some pets experience less of a flea problem, bad breath, bad gas, and bad body odour have also been known to mysteriously disappear after introducing homemade food (although it is no mystery when you understand what is happening).

Some people have experienced even greater benefits from simply feeding homemade food. The one thing I have discovered is that nothing surprises me. The stories I have heard from people and the things I have seen are absolutely incredible and heart stopping. I have heard of cats clearing all of their symptoms of feline urilogical syndrome, feline leukemia, and even feline AIDS after incorporating wholesome food."

~=~

"Feeding a wholesome raw meat diet makes sense to me because I prefer not to focus on the word raw but rather on the word wholesome. Nobody can deny that our pets, just as we humans, need wholesome foods for good health. For some, they will think that commercial pet foods constitute a wholesome diet and that's fair enough. To each their own. But for myself (and hopefully for you too), if we meditate on what constitutes a wholesome diet then our thoughts should lead us to a diet that most closely imitates and resembles what Mother Nature herself would feed."

~=~

"Hopefully, like me, after learning about wholesome homemade pet food and the benefits of wholesome nutrition, you too will realize the insanity of feeding the enzyme depleted and nutritionally inadequate foods made from overly processed ingredients that a carnivore would never eat in the wild known as commercial pet food"

~=~

"A natural raw meat diet is not necessarily a miracle diet. But it can do wonders. More importantly though, when you feed a natural raw meat diet you give your cats (and dogs) the opportunity to be healthy. With age, genetics and other factors, illness can eventually creep in - but that's part of life. What we want to achieve by feeding a natural raw meat diet is to minimize the problems and hopefully have none. But when you feed a commercial diet, you don't give your pets the opportunity to be healthy and instead only give them the opportunity to be sick. That is why many people, including myself, can only feed a natural raw meat diet because in our heart we know it's the right thing to do. I've been feeding a natural raw meat diet now for 19 years - and I will never go back to commercial pet food smile.gif"

This post has been edited by Fitrah: Jun 12 2012, 12:00 AM
yueyi5730
post Jun 12 2012, 12:00 AM

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thank you fitrah.. why not post some of ur pets photos??
Fitrah
post Jun 12 2012, 12:23 AM

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QUOTE(yueyi5730 @ Jun 12 2012, 12:00 AM)
thank you fitrah.. why not post some of ur pets photos??
*

You're welcome. Actually our cats are camera shy smile.gif
mfak0511
post Jun 12 2012, 09:02 AM

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Fitrah-chan
can you share your weekly recipes?

i might try it someday, just this one kitten..she seems so sensitive about her health


Added on June 12, 2012, 9:15 amit is always the recipes that troubles me

a few days back, i bought some quails, livebearers tropical fishes and munias because i read about Prey Model. The author claimed that giving foods that are natural but not suitable for carnivores like cats are ridiculous, so i killed a quail and gave it raw to my kitten

this one kitten seems to be okay while the other fell ill; vomiting after 5 to 6 hours.

but on the same day, I cleaned their ears with mineral oil and spill some, i think 5 to 6 drops and the kitten lick it off her fur but the vet said that mineral oil is okay for kittens eventhough you give them a tablespoon which is true after i did some researches on the internet.

please share with us the recipe of wholesome food of yours


This post has been edited by mfak0511: Jun 12 2012, 09:15 AM
xecton
post Jun 12 2012, 09:57 AM

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From: Penang


QUOTE(mfak0511 @ Jun 12 2012, 09:02 AM)
it is always the recipes that troubles me

a few days back, i bought some quails, livebearers tropical fishes and munias because i read about Prey Model. The author claimed that giving foods that are natural but not suitable for carnivores like cats are ridiculous, so i killed a quail and gave it raw to my kitten

this one kitten seems to be okay while the other fell ill; vomiting after 5 to 6 hours.

but on the same day, I cleaned their ears with mineral oil and spill some, i think 5 to 6 drops and the kitten lick it off her fur but the vet said that mineral oil is okay for kittens eventhough you give them a tablespoon which is true after i did some researches on the internet.

please share with us the recipe of wholesome food of yours
*
You have gone one step beyond most raw feeders, by killing the livestocks yourself and feeding them really fresh.
But perhaps it is not really necessary. Feeding your pets human grade meat should be sufficient.
I get cheap Tesco chicken for my dog, RM4.99/kg.
mfak0511
post Jun 12 2012, 01:42 PM

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QUOTE(xecton @ Jun 12 2012, 09:57 AM)
I get cheap Tesco chicken for my dog, RM4.99/kg.
*
what? that cheap? you're going to tesco just before they close?
xecton
post Jun 12 2012, 02:59 PM

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From: Penang


QUOTE(mfak0511 @ Jun 12 2012, 01:42 PM)
what? that cheap? you're going to tesco just before they close?
*
No, it's a regular price.
Fitrah
post Jun 12 2012, 03:25 PM

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QUOTE(mfak0511 @ Jun 12 2012, 09:02 AM)
Fitrah-chan
can you share your weekly recipes?

i might try it someday, just this one kitten..she seems so sensitive about her health


Added on June 12, 2012, 9:15 amit is always the recipes that troubles me

a few days back, i bought some quails, livebearers tropical fishes and munias because i read about Prey Model. The author claimed that giving foods that are natural but not suitable for carnivores like cats are ridiculous, so i killed a quail and gave it raw to my kitten

this one kitten seems to be okay while the other fell ill; vomiting after 5 to 6 hours.

but on the same day, I cleaned their ears with mineral oil and spill some, i think 5 to 6 drops and the kitten lick it off her fur but the vet said that mineral oil is okay for kittens eventhough you give them a tablespoon which is true after i did some researches on the internet.

please share with us the recipe of wholesome food of yours
*

"Recipes! Everybody Wants Recipes – But Why???
People have been brainwashed into thinking that a recipe is needed to make natural homemade pet food. But, making wholesome homemade pet food is mind boggling simple. Recipes, as a result, only make the process unnecessarily complicated. Natural homemade pet food requires a maximum of three things:

1. Raw meat
2. Finely chopped vegetables (optional)
3. Some nutritional supplements, most important of which is calcium

Today, you are going to learn the basic principles and guidelines to making natural homemade pet food and how to mix it all together – without recipes!

Recipes are very restrictive. If you don’t have one part of the recipe, you can’t make the meal. Plus recipes are always complicated – you also spend too much time measuring. Oh what a hassle those recipes are!

The principles and guidelines that I will teach you will provide you with freedom. The freedom to relax, the freedom to have fun, the freedom to use what you have – and ultimately, the freedom to spend more time loving your pets."

~=~

"Let's Dispel Some Myths About Homemade Pet Food
• homemade dog food and homemade cat food is not hard to make, it is in fact easy and childishly simplistic
• you can be lazy and still make homemade pet food with minimal effort, that's right, I said minimal effort
• homemade pet food does not take a lot of time, it is simple and
incredibly quick if you know how

No pet food recipes are required!

Recipes, everybody wants pet food recipes. A recipe is a technique and a technique is a specific method of accomplishing a desired goal. Unfortunately the problem with techniques is that if you don't have one part of the pet food recipe, then you can't make it, plus you have to follow directions that never make sense!

Well, let's break loose and follow guidelines which are based on principle. Principles are codes of conduct. Codes of conduct allow you to adapt based on the principle. We are going to be focusing on the principles behind homemade food for dogs and cats because it's the principles that give you the flexibility you need to make the food hassle free and quick!!!"

~=~

Please kindly check your PM for the guidelines.
xecton
post Jun 12 2012, 05:38 PM

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Joined: Feb 2006
From: Penang


QUOTE(Fitrah @ Jun 12 2012, 03:25 PM)
"Recipes! Everybody Wants Recipes – But Why???
People have been brainwashed into thinking that a recipe is needed to make natural homemade pet food. But, making wholesome homemade pet food is mind boggling simple. Recipes, as a result, only make the process unnecessarily complicated. Natural homemade pet food requires a maximum of three things:

1. Raw meat
2. Finely chopped vegetables (optional)
3. Some nutritional supplements, most important of which is calcium
~snipped~
*
Aren't bones the source of calcium in raw diets?
If you suppliment with more calcium, won't you risk too much calcium in the animal's diet?
Fitrah
post Jun 12 2012, 05:58 PM

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QUOTE(xecton @ Jun 12 2012, 05:38 PM)
Aren't bones the source of calcium in raw diets?
If you suppliment with more calcium, won't you risk too much calcium in the animal's diet?
*

"Our pet's body must have a 2:1 ratio of calcium and phosphorus to be healthy and if this ratio is not achieved, then your pet's body will be out of balance. This simple nutritional imbalance can then affect other aspects of your pet's health especially the kidneys."

Bones Are Not The Best Source of Calcium For Dogs and Cats

Calcium — The Importance of Calcium In Natural Homemade Pet Food

Ground Egg Shells — How To Make Your Own Ground Egg Shell Supplement and How Much To Give

Filling You In On Dental Care
TSWhite Palace
post Jun 12 2012, 09:16 PM

Angel - Top Maltese 2006 @ Best Malaysian Bred In Show
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Joined: May 2006
From: Kepong, Kuala Lumpur



QUOTE(Fitrah @ Jun 12 2012, 03:25 PM)
"Recipes! Everybody Wants Recipes – But Why???
People have been brainwashed into thinking that a recipe is needed to make natural homemade pet food. But, making wholesome homemade pet food is mind boggling simple. Recipes, as a result, only make the process unnecessarily complicated. Natural homemade pet food requires a maximum of three things:

1. Raw meat
2. Finely chopped vegetables (optional)
3. Some nutritional supplements, most important of which is calcium

Today, you are going to learn the basic principles and guidelines to making natural homemade pet food and how to mix it all together – without recipes!

Recipes are very restrictive. If you don’t have one part of the recipe, you can’t make the meal. Plus recipes are always complicated – you also spend too much time measuring. Oh what a hassle those recipes are!

The principles and guidelines that I will teach you will provide you with freedom. The freedom to relax, the freedom to have fun, the freedom to use what you have – and ultimately, the freedom to spend more time loving your pets."

*
Well said. smile.gif
xecton
post Jun 13 2012, 03:41 PM

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From: Penang


This should be interesting biggrin.gif
Fitrah
post Jun 14 2012, 07:48 AM

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QUOTE(alcmalaysia2012 @ Jun 13 2012, 03:29 PM)
She is sick from coccidiosis, that's what you get from feeding them raw meat, uncooked meat

one of my brother's persian died because of coccidiosis, just because my sister in law so stubborn to treat coccidiosis until it's too late, she insisted that it's the effect of giving raw food to cats; the vomiting and diarrheoa

one thing about domestication: the domesticated animals can consume a wide variety of classes of food, thus you can't just feed them raw food anymore, but it's depends on how many generations your kittens are removed from it's feral/reintroduction to wild ancestors

just use google scholar on research papers of domestications if you demand the truth about the above fact
*

"I must admit, I don't consider myself an expert - instead, I am just a person who loves pets and wants to encourage people to feed their pets a natural and wholesome diet. There are many who are far more of an expert than I ever will be.

When it comes to serious health problems like this, I always encourage people to get professional advice simply because I am not qualified to answer and I am not a healer - instead, I try to assist people by providing information that can help them make better decisions.

But in my years of experience I have realized that many people have different views on what constitutes a wholesome diet and so there will always be people who don't share the same view as you or I regarding the benefits of a raw meat diet.

In my years of experience, what I have also realized is that many dogs and cats are sick today due to generations of poor and unhealthy diets. All you need to do is look at how many vet clinics there - I personally see more vet clinics than human clinics and the reality is that most pets are still fed commercial diets.

But what I've realized is that since so many pets are sick due to generations of poor diets, there are cases when a natural raw meat diet simply is not enough. There are also cases when a person has no choice but to feed a cooked meat diet simply because the pet is too weak to eat raw. I've experienced a few situations like this - not many, but enough to make me realize that each situations needs to be viewed with an individual viewpoint.

Whether this cat has coccidiosis, I don't know. There can be many things happening. Everyone says that raw meat can lead to food poisoning, as an example, yet many pets eating cooked meat diets get food poisoning and nobody blames cooked meat or commercial pet foods for the problem.

So it is unfair to blame raw meat. Many dogs and cats are sick today while eating commercial pet foods and cooked meat diets. Health problems can happen at any time, for any reason - regardless of the diet fed.

I always tell people that the reason why I feed a natural raw meat diet is not because I expect my pets to always be healthy but rather because I want to minimize as many health problems as possible. The reality is though, with age and other factors, all pets will eventually get sick to some degree - some worse than others - regardless of what diet you feed. I feed a natural raw meat diet because I believe that by doing so I give my pets a chance to be healthy - while when you feed a commercial diet or even cooked meat, you only give your pets a chance to be sick.

The funny thing about health is that you can never know when you have been successful because no problems materialize. But as soon as there is a problem, people say "see, it doesn't work", yet how many problems have been avoided? You can never know and you will never know how beneficial your healthy approach to feeding has been - yet in your heart, you will know the truth about a raw meat diet.

I've personally been feeding raw meat diets now for 19 years and I've helped many people switch to raw. In all my years, only a small percentage have had difficulties with a natural raw meat diet - while the rest do quite well. Unfortunately, people are attached to the idea of what health should be rather than embrace health as it is - not as we want, hope or expect it to be, but as it is. This is when and where debates happen.

So myself, while I promote a raw meat diet, this might be a situation in which the person might have to feed cooked until the body is stabilized especially since this person seems to have limited resources.

For me personally, in this situation I would do whatever it takes to get the body stable. Once stable then I would begin rebuilding the health and constitution of the cat. But what I would do or what you would do to help create stability might be, would be and probably should be different to what this person does simply because we have access to more resources, funding, education, experience, availability to remedies, etc.

If this person had access to homeopathic remedies, as an example, or something like colloidal silver then I would be using them - but I don't think this person does.

Saying all of this, sometimes during a detox, the body will vomit. In addition, during a detox the body can get worse before it gets better. My own dog, that I rescued from the streets of the Philippines, went through a 6 week detox recently yet because I've been following her health since the day I rescued her, I knew it was a detox. But is this cat going through a detox? Hard to say.

I would need more information such as how long has the dog or cat been eating a raw meat diet for, etc before I could even guess if it was a detox. But it is always hard for me to guess if someone else's dog or cat is going through a detox because you also need to know the history, the personality, the characteristics, etc to make a good guess.

In some cases, when a dog or cat is fed a raw meat diet for the first time the digestive system is weak and that leads to vomiting. In this case, I just add extra pancreatic derived enzymes to the diet and then the vomiting stops. But this person is saying their cat is very ill and so we don't know if they are just panicking or if the cat is just detoxifying.

The challenge is that detoxification and illness appear to be the same - yet one means the body is getting healthier while the other means the body is getting weaker. But the activated charcoal will probably help clean up some bacteria if that is the problem.

What we also don't know is if this cat is an indoor or outdoor cat? The reality is that in Asia there is a lot of rat poison and some people purposely poison pets. It's for this reason that I personally have my cats locked into my yard in the Philippines because I don't want them to escape and eat rat poison. One of my friends in Indonesia had several cats die to rat poison.

So it is difficult to know what is happening and while I believe a raw meat diet is beneficial, this person has some challenges and so does their cat.

In situations like this, I often refer people to someone like Dr. Kim, a naturopathic vet:

Aspenbloom Pet Care

You might actually want to send her an email to get her input as well. Now she's an expert smile.gif

But without more details, everyone is just guessing as to the problem."

~=~

Why Feed Natural Homemade Pet Food
xecton
post Jun 19 2012, 10:52 PM

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From: Penang


QUOTE(alcmalaysia2012 @ Jun 19 2012, 03:42 PM)
long post
ok you win
*
That's it? All the scholarly talk and you are going to end it like a little troll?
jess7
post Feb 4 2013, 05:12 PM

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Yippee!!!
finally, stray dog Woody has succumb to raw food diet that i have diligently prepared for him smile.gif
SO HAPPY!
firstly, i would like to give thanks to Rayne for helping me with the start up, couldn't have made it easier thumbup.gif
so to all starters out there, if you ever need any help, i am glad to do so tongue.gif

however, an obstacle arise again...
CNY is coming and i'll be away for a week, so are my neighbours (vegetarians, so they can't handle meat...)
any suggestions on how i can feed Woody while i'm away?
neighbour suggested last resort: FEED DRY COMMERCIAL DOG FOOD! rclxub.gif
so i'm all out to listen to any suggestions!
please advice smile.gif
jess7
post Feb 5 2013, 12:15 AM

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oh ya btw, chicken going at rm3.78/kg at mydin~
went and got 3.8kg at rm13, made 13meals for Woody thumbup.gif
OKLY
post Feb 5 2013, 09:36 AM

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Anyone can share a simple recipe that is hassle free to prepare for my 8 months old Alaskan Malamute? Would like to try a BARF diet for him. biggrin.gif
jess7
post Feb 5 2013, 05:42 PM

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QUOTE(OKLY @ Feb 5 2013, 09:36 AM)
Anyone can share a simple recipe that is hassle free to prepare for my 8 months old Alaskan Malamute? Would like to try a BARF diet for him. biggrin.gif
*
what info have you collected from the above discussions?
babymiki
post Feb 6 2013, 04:36 PM

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anyone know where can i get meat + bone grinder?
blackright
post May 13 2013, 12:10 AM

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Wonder anyone still comes to this threat??
I'm also a raw feeder, but I'm more into Prey Modal Diet..
Any raw feeder/ BARFer from or around puchong? I'm thinking about getting few more raw feeder and to variety of fresh meat in bulk ( for better price) and split among us.. Anyone?
I'm feeding poultry mainly, but looking for lamb/ mutton, rabbit and other meats.
bei00
post May 14 2013, 02:25 PM

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where to buy the barf diet and i would like to have the ingredients.
please anyone provide me the ingredients. tq
Jeebs
post Jun 7 2013, 01:24 PM

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QUOTE(blackright @ May 13 2013, 12:10 AM)
Wonder anyone still comes to this threat??
I'm also a raw feeder, but I'm more into Prey Modal Diet..
Any raw feeder/ BARFer from or around puchong? I'm thinking about getting few more raw feeder and to variety of fresh meat in bulk ( for better price) and split among us.. Anyone?
I'm feeding poultry mainly, but looking for lamb/ mutton, rabbit and other meats.
*
Hi, i want to start on the raw feed for my dog. I would like to share with you if you still looking. I'm staying at Bukit Jalil.
jess7
post Jun 17 2013, 09:59 AM

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QUOTE(Jeebs @ Jun 7 2013, 01:24 PM)
Hi, i want to start on the raw feed for my dog. I would like to share with you if you still looking. I'm staying at Bukit Jalil.
*
yup, still coming back to this thread to look see look see hahaha,
yeah, i'm currently also feeding only fresh chicken bought from mydin but will be moving soon, making buying chicken a little bit more difficult sad.gif
but bought myself a chest freezer just for little doggie so that can stock up alot tongue.gif
need stock up so that no need make frequent round to hypermarket.

About the sharing of meat, how does it work?
xecton
post Jun 17 2013, 10:11 AM

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From: Penang


QUOTE(jess7 @ Jun 17 2013, 09:59 AM)
yup, still coming back to this thread to look see look see hahaha,
yeah, i'm currently also feeding only fresh chicken bought from mydin but will be moving soon, making buying chicken a little bit more difficult  sad.gif
but bought myself a chest freezer just for little doggie so that can stock up alot  tongue.gif
need stock up so that no need make frequent round to hypermarket.

About the sharing of meat, how does it work?
*
Chicken only is not that good, read meat has much more nutrients.
My dog lost weight when I changed her from mixture to chicken only meal of the same weight. Why I did that was because there were some controversy about Indian buffalo.
jess7
post Jun 17 2013, 10:51 AM

Getting Started
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Junior Member
155 posts

Joined: Apr 2012
From: Shah Alam


QUOTE(xecton @ Jun 17 2013, 10:11 AM)
Chicken only is not that good, read meat has much more nutrients.
My dog lost weight when I changed her from mixture to chicken only meal of the same weight. Why I did that was because there were some controversy about Indian buffalo.
*
hi there xecton!
i knw chicken is not as good when compared to red meat,
but it is the meat that i can afford as i am still student,
just adopted this stray when bandaran ppl came over to catch dogs in the neighbourhood i'm currently residing in
ever since then, he has been neutered, trained and exercised everyday smile.gif
what meat would you recommend which is easily available?
i also homemake dog shampoo consisting of amway gentle on skin soap, apple cider vinegar.
when i feed him raw meat i will also add in a tablespoon of acv, his coat now so soft to touch! prevents ticks too!
blackright
post Jun 20 2013, 12:28 AM

New Member
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Newbie
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Joined: Dec 2008
QUOTE(Jeebs @ Jun 7 2013, 01:24 PM)
Hi, i want to start on the raw feed for my dog. I would like to share with you if you still looking. I'm staying at Bukit Jalil.
*
hi thanks for the reply.
Mind sharing what do you usually get for your dogs?
blackright
post Jun 20 2013, 12:31 AM

New Member
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Newbie
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Joined: Dec 2008
QUOTE(jess7 @ Jun 17 2013, 09:59 AM)
yup, still coming back to this thread to look see look see hahaha,
yeah, i'm currently also feeding only fresh chicken bought from mydin but will be moving soon, making buying chicken a little bit more difficult  sad.gif
but bought myself a chest freezer just for little doggie so that can stock up alot  tongue.gif
need stock up so that no need make frequent round to hypermarket.

About the sharing of meat, how does it work?
*
Sharing of meat as in, anyone found good deals in meat/ parts, spread the words and others pull in together to buy in bulk to keep cost lower.
ie. I got good deals on freshly slaughtered green tripe last month selling at RM15/kg, but if buy more than 5kg will be RM12/kg, but I need only 2kg, so maybe Mr A wants to have a share of 1kg, and Ms B wants another 2kg....etc
saoirse
post Jun 23 2013, 09:25 PM

Getting Started
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Junior Member
82 posts

Joined: Jan 2007
From: seremban<=>kl,setapak


OMG nice to see people feeding raw to their fur kids locally. I'll check out this forum more closely. smile.gif hello happy to meet u all, i have a 6 months old husky. I just started feeding raw to him 2 days ago. but seems like hes craving for more food. I stick to the rule of 2% of his weight daily. should i feed him more or its just his old diet habit that will go off in time?
saoirse
post Jun 23 2013, 09:25 PM

Getting Started
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Junior Member
82 posts

Joined: Jan 2007
From: seremban<=>kl,setapak


As well as meat sharing, i like to join as well just to get cheaper meat for him. smile.gif thank you.
xecton
post Jun 24 2013, 12:41 AM

The Reverend
*****
Senior Member
734 posts

Joined: Feb 2006
From: Penang


QUOTE(saoirse @ Jun 23 2013, 09:25 PM)
OMG nice to see people feeding raw to their fur kids locally. I'll check  out this forum more closely. smile.gif hello happy to meet u all, i have a 6 months old husky. I just started feeding raw to him 2 days ago. but seems like hes craving for more food. I stick to the rule of 2% of his weight daily. should i feed him more or its just his old diet habit that will go off in time?
*
My understanding of these percentage rules is this:
Feed puppies 10% of their current weight.
When that 10% exceeds the 2% of their ideal weight, then switch to 2% of their ideal weight.
That said, understand that each dog will have different body and weight, so you can adjust accordingly.
These percentage rules are a guideline only, not hard rules.
saoirse
post Jun 24 2013, 07:17 AM

Getting Started
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Junior Member
82 posts

Joined: Jan 2007
From: seremban<=>kl,setapak


QUOTE(xecton @ Jun 24 2013, 12:41 AM)
My understanding of these percentage rules is this:
Feed puppies 10% of their current weight.
When that 10% exceeds the 2% of their ideal weight, then switch to 2% of their ideal weight.
That said, understand that each dog will have different body and weight, so you can adjust accordingly.
These percentage rules are a guideline only, not hard rules.
*
Hi nice to see someone replied. Thank you very much. My puppy is 20kg now. If i fed 10% then i would be 2kg, thats a whole chicken :woot: lol. Ideal weight is 28kg and 2% is 560 or 600gms daily. I just fed him breakfast meal a whole drumstick plus the thigh which is nearly 500gms plus an egg. I will see how he reacts later on.

And between his poop been kind of watery with mucous. Its been day 3 feeding on raw no kibbles at all. The diarrhea starts ytd afternoon. Is this okay and normal?

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