well if u said cap ikan oledi,suppose its an immitation rite? buttt..i saw their ads in magz,n ofkos, the shop.. already ask dat shop. its canadian brand, assembly in malaysia. seem suspicious rite? well for budget-savvy like me,naahhhhh like some sayin' it here, its tuning factor.

^Nope, cap ayam means using lower quality stuffs. It may not last long. Alot of brands can say it is designed in somewhere, but that's not important. More important is the QC for it. Like some exepnsive brands, they have 2 place that makes them. 1 is the brand's country of origin another is by their OEM factories. Some acc shops dare to sell stuffs from OEM with the price of from country of origin. Just like handphones.

Best still, work aorund with your budget. As long as they don't produce noise, it is decent for you. Sometimes cheaper stuffs do sound good, depend to what level you are.

Work on the budget you have will do... Even if it is some other brand, you might like it after you listen to it.

^^^^That's why I always say, cheating a newbie is very easy.

ha,quite agree wit dat. conning a newbie can be very easy heh heh but let share dis kennon links :

Kennon

new brand ah?

Hahaha...some would say cap ayam...

^I won't say like that at any 1 time. Each brand got its class. Just like cars.

cengkoi : Well, have to see the amp's price first. If rm150-350 for a 4 channel amp, I may consider. Or I will say, Kennon's amp price range is around there.
Some simple guide to you, try to do as much homework from the net then start comparing price from 1 shop to another. Then when doing installation works, supervision is very important. If you are not there, alot of hanky panky may happen.

Put your self in the manufacturer's shoes, do you wann to target mass market or niche market?
Mass market will have better volume.
Niche market will be otherwise.

Analogy to this, Cd's like Black Eye Peas(generic CD) Vs Dianna Krall(audiophile CD) which has better sales world wide?
If you are into the music business, and you have a choice to get either one record license to sell/distribute in South East Asia, which would you choose?

So there's no really bad amp for anybody. If an A person can afford a RM3K amp, so thats a good amp for him/her.
If B person can only afford a RM300 amp, thats a good amp for him/her too.

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If one were to be a pure seeker in high-fidelity hifi system, the person would buy the best amp, best HU, best speakers and etc...
Having a RM30K amp, RM20K HU, RM30K speakers and etc... + superb tuning/installation skills, would you be able to achieve 'audio nirvana' ?
Some might be happy some might not. It depends on the maturity level or exposure to music.
Ex: when I was young, I never like Bittergourd but now as I crazed for Bittergourd cook with chicken.. nice:)

Please dont be confuse here, I'm not saying that a RM30K speakers will NOT sound good whereas a RM2K speaker will sound better.

I still believe having the best hardware to achieve 'audio nirvana'. But then again having the best hardware + superb tuning/installation skills still will NOT be able to achieve but with better hardware it makes life a little easier.
Why?
-cause to build a hi-end system is NEVER about plug-and-play.
To me in my opinion and pls dun flame me, the route is 'customized' setup.
Ex: Some people like to use the word customized sub box by juz building one enclosure and expect to get it right cause they based on manufacturer's recommendation or using winISd.
Those are just theoretically values which can be accurate, but NOT optimum!!!
Why NOT build 4-10 different enclosure and you might juz get the sub sound even better!!..

Let talk more about a RM20K amp/HU, is it the best amp/HU? Well it could be as compared with the rest. But is it the best amp for the music?
Most probably NOT!!
It could have a very good amp topology design, but fail to have premium parts in it.
Example -
Why still use an opamps where a discrete HDRam are much better
Why use a normal transformer where a pure silver toroidal is even better
Why still use a thin aluminium heat sink+ chasis wher a thick solid aluminium block CNC machined out is even better for lower floor noise
Why the amp chassis go 'zing' when we run our finger across the chassis/heatsink where this is what we would hear when its amplified
Why still use a PCB board design where as point-to-point soldering can improved the sound to a few notches up
Why still use carbon potentiometer for volume attenuation where using a single high quality resistor in series with the signal and there is only one switch contact with multiple series resistor tap is better
Why still used the generic switching power supply where it is known to generate 'noise'
and etc...

I guess the reason for the above is cost. A pure silver toroidal transformer can cost up to a brand new honda accord. A block of Alumimium CNC machined out just for a single amp, will cost several thousand of dollars
So in conclusion to me at least, a RM20K amp/HU is still far away from achieving 'audio nirvana'...

The above statement is strictly based on my personal opinion and as you know music is always subjective to different people.
Analogy to this- If A person were to drive a Evo9 he/she would like to hang out with all the crazy car mods guys as we have the same level of interest/exposure/goals BUT you can never expect B person who believe in pump and drive to mix with them. Hence different opinion!!...

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Added on January 21, 2010, 3:16 amTo me if you wann near close to perfection install job, an analogy is like this:
Send the car for a premium aftermarket paint job.
Was quoted RM4K for the job. This particular owner is very fussy about everything and he has and 'eye' for paint works.
So if you were to sent to a premium body shop, bare in mind that there will be stages in doing the job.
1. Mudguard/Body knocking to rectify irregular surface - A guy doing it
2. Boh lai and then sanding it down to flat perfect surface - B guy doing it
3. Primer/Basecoat/Clear coat spray - C guy doing it
4. Compounding/Polish to remove surface imperfections - D guy doing it(probably bangla/mynmmar)

Highest paid worker generally will be A,B,C guy.
But overall there's always a main guy(sifu/boss) to supervise overall job or even hands-on on certain areas.

So if this owner wanns near perfection job, I recommended to him that only the so-called 'sifu' should do the whole entire process of the new paint job. No one else should help or touch the car.
That way you can rest assured a quality premium job.
But be prepare to pay extra + more time needed to finish such high premium expectation job.

Conclusion, the owner is nice guy. He juz wanns a peace of mind and job to be done professionally. He understand the whole thing, and without hesitation he juz ask how much more for the 'sifu' to do my car


This post has been edited by carcrazy: Jan 21 2010, 03:16 AM

^Your reply is too long, I'm very lazy to read it all and have no intention to understand it either. But if you want to say your shop's job is "perfect", I in doubt. There's no perfect job in this world. Reputable shops never do mistakesand pissed their customer off? That will be the best joke ever if got any of such shop dare to say they never.

I don't see that carcrazy has ever mentioned his shop is providing perfect service. Anyway, if the forum is going to turn into a battlefield for those in the ICE business, I think the forum will lose its credibility as a platform for exchange of ideas.

My philosophy for ICE is very simple, "The best set up will be the one that you are satisfied with. Sound quality is always 'individualized' (nobody knows it better than yourself)".

dat shows how short-sighted and arrogant u are. ppl said near perfection, and u get all hyped up... sometimes u need to sit back and relax, dun get so tensed.

robinhood : I agree with you on this.... But then our local forum is just another place for people to do free advertisments. I'm just 1 of them.

ckmoy007 : Yes sir, you are right. I'm a very short sighted person, especially dealing with people like to justify a crime is right and try to say he is perfect(or near perfect like you said).

Just take below as example :
A young person that just start working buy a Proton Iswara brand new with alot of small problems. What will he do? Visit a forum and open a thread voice out his frustration.

A middle age manager bought a brand new Merc and facing alot of small problems also. But will he visit forum and voice out his frustration? I in doubt on this.

Such scenario will happen in every business. Some will voice out but some won't.

well... i do agree with R.Hood... but problem arise when sellers tries very hard to "snatch" business...

other situation... i dun see there is any problem with knowledge sharing...

one more thing is... there is a lot of ICErs out there... but there is 2 type of ICErs... one group brand oriented(branding, budget, fame oriented)... the other group are knowledge oriented(tunings, installs, technicalities oriented)...

to spot them... easy...
first one talks about how good a brand is...
another talks about what proper setup is...

I agree with you too.

You pay for what you like, even though it might be Chap Ayam to some... But when the moment is right, you'll enjoy every single moment/sound of it.

Enjoy your ICE~~

^^^I will always let my budget do the talking..... But sometimes I just hate when there's a group of people will discriminates such concept.

Cheaper products might have noise issues. But if you have a certain level of skills, you will able to counter such issues. Only those that have no skill will discriminates cheaper brands.
That's why I respect Richard Clark for this. An amp is just an amp.

Well, brands are serves merely as a benchmark of quality. But it is not necessarily a well-known brand produced the best equipments and meets your needs. The goal post always changes from one person to the other (or as his/her experience evolves).One has to understand the manufacturer's target market and product segmentation as well. Based on my personal experience through various change of amps from Blaupunkt, JVC, Alpine, Helix, Arc Audio and Agako, I find that brands have actually created a lot of misconceptions to the market particularly the Agako amps.

The Agako Reference amps has indeed open my eyes on how wrong can those brand orientated groups are. By the way, don't forget the forum dynamics as well. The more u talk about it, the more popular it becomes (either the positive way or in the contrary)

Same thing goes to speakers, some people proclaimed Focal K2P are lousy speakers with harsh tweeters, but have they really heard of a well-tuned system yet???? ICE is not merely about brands anyway. I don't think I need to elaborate on the ingredients in the journey to audio nirvana again (since it has been comprehensively covered earlier).

1. I agree with you on this.

2. I not agree with you on this. Reason is, our local forum is run by acc shops or people that have direct interest on this field while other countries forum are mixed by all level people, from acc shops, manufacturer to end users. I don't see any forum dynamic over here, I see only free advertisments by few acc shop's personal.
I like Agako amps basicly, based on the price/performance ratio. But later I have to sell them off because I need more power and channels for my new setup. And the price I can get them is the price I'm getting Jl Audio amps from US.

3. Focal speakers..... The reason 1 get the tweeters with harsh sound is maybe fake sets. Who knows? That's why I always hate a brand that has fakes around.

Are you also one of the forummers who have direct ICE business interest?? Well, this is just what I deduced from the replies I saw from other threads. There is nothing wrong in advertising your products or services but I think you should be more open to opinions. ICE is not 1+1=2. Don't get me wrong. I am not judging you, but this is just my personal opinion.

It is unavoidable that forums are used as a platform for free publicity. Even the mycarhifi forum which proclaimed to be a 'clean' forum is tainted. Worse, one of the moderators has a direct business interest and there are efforts to quiet those who try to expose them too.

As for the newbies, they should learn and filter what ever is necessary. Do your research and homework. Make price comparison and experience various set ups before jumping to the bandwagon because ICE ain't cheap.

Lastly, ICE is only a hobby. One doesn't need to be too hard on it....relax and enjoy your music

^Basicly, I sell speakers is just to get lower price when I'm changing speakers. I treat this as part time job. And have the chance to listen others speaker also, free audition.
Yup, is not wrong to do free ads basicly, but what I don't like is the group bashing that this gang doing.
mycarhifi is run by those acc shops basicly. Is there any effort to quiet others? You are wrong again. As they are moderators, they say the sun is rising from west also can. They can just use their power to slaugther other's post.

Newbies? Yeah, indeed, we can always see newbies trying to ask questions when they have problem. But why? Because nowadays people have not much intention to spend more on acc shops. That's why they open thread here. Changing our experience to them is ok, but then again some acc shops being introduced. How you expect newbies to learn? I in doubt.

Indeed, ICE is hobby, but when there's some jokers say cheap stuffs cannot be listened and always got problem, is this right? For me, this is like a person robbed a bank and say that he is right. For me, with proper skills, it should able to counter potetntial problems. And do you come accross a rm10k hifi set with the active sub internal QC very bad(need to resolder anything inside) and the speaker enclosure leaking?

Need some advise from u guys.

Isit BM VTK-S12 is a acceptable sub for SPL and how durable?I'm going to get 2 of those to add in my car which is currently running on Mid and components only.Wanna add some heart pounding.

So 2pcs of BM VTK-S12 1300W 4Ohm Double voice coil and a MA Audio MA-3001D 600W RMS Class-D Monoblock.

Spec of amp:

300W RMS @ 4 Ohm
600W RMS @ 2 Ohm
Max Power: 1400W PMPO
PWM MOFSET switching power supply
Adaptive Class D technology
High powered transformer
High powered stacked inductor
Pure N-channel design
Doubles power into 2 ohms

Possible to wire both sub into 2ohm with that amp bridged?How?Or i need more juice/other high RMS monoblock?

Thanks

This post has been edited by Conroe: Jan 27 2010, 03:12 AM