Kenwood eXcelon series have a good review. But too bad Malaysia not selling.
Anyway there's lots of possible cause to make an amp hot, like :
Using too small power cable
run too low impedance
Don't know why nowadays people like to see big numbers. A pair of good tweeters with 10W of clean power is more than enough to fry your ears.

When using smaller power cables to car amp, current draw is limited to its size and length. And have to consider the output from alternator also. By using bigger cables(overkills it) will prevent such problem.

Howie : I don't know how to say on this, I'll just relate it to current marketing gimmick. Then it will be much easier to answer your questions. Cannot deny that putting more power from amp to driver do bring out more details, but does it really true clean power we are putting in?
There's always arguement between marketing and technical department on this.
HU's output power is 15WRMS, if you connect it to low efficient drivers, for sure it will sound bad.

If you are going for raw drivers, Madisound will be the best source for you.

I won't judge like this. I will judge the brand by my personal budget.
And the term "best" or "worst" is subjective.
For me, $/performance ratio is more important and have to see all inter-related equipments.
For my case, worst brands will be Mcintosh, Tru Billets, Brax, Sinfoni, Genesis due to $/performance is out.
Best brand will be JL Audio, Pioneer Premier, RF Power OS series(smuggle from US direct and I'm using JL Audio) because the $/performance is ok.

Another factor that I will label it as worst brand is fakes that flying around. Fakes can fly around is because they want to increase profit margin and let third party to manufacture them. Brands like Focal and DLS falls under this. They are ware of fakes but never take a better measure to prevent this. Instead, they fry up the price more by urging people to buy from authorized dealers(which they sell fakes also sometimes). The only way to prevent fakes is they manufacture them directly by not letting third party to do the job.

This post has been edited by supersound: Dec 2 2009, 07:27 PM

^I won't say a brand is cap ayam directly.... Each grade of the amps listed got their market segments and that's personal taste when judging how good they are.

^See my post #474 and try understand its meaning.

^Nope, cap ayam means using lower quality stuffs. It may not last long. Alot of brands can say it is designed in somewhere, but that's not important. More important is the QC for it. Like some exepnsive brands, they have 2 place that makes them. 1 is the brand's country of origin another is by their OEM factories. Some acc shops dare to sell stuffs from OEM with the price of from country of origin. Just like handphones.

Best still, work aorund with your budget. As long as they don't produce noise, it is decent for you. Sometimes cheaper stuffs do sound good, depend to what level you are.

^^^^That's why I always say, cheating a newbie is very easy.

^I won't say like that at any 1 time. Each brand got its class. Just like cars.

cengkoi : Well, have to see the amp's price first. If rm150-350 for a 4 channel amp, I may consider. Or I will say, Kennon's amp price range is around there.
Some simple guide to you, try to do as much homework from the net then start comparing price from 1 shop to another. Then when doing installation works, supervision is very important. If you are not there, alot of hanky panky may happen.

^Your reply is too long, I'm very lazy to read it all and have no intention to understand it either. But if you want to say your shop's job is "perfect", I in doubt. There's no perfect job in this world. Reputable shops never do mistakesand pissed their customer off? That will be the best joke ever if got any of such shop dare to say they never.

robinhood : I agree with you on this.... But then our local forum is just another place for people to do free advertisments. I'm just 1 of them.

ckmoy007 : Yes sir, you are right. I'm a very short sighted person, especially dealing with people like to justify a crime is right and try to say he is perfect(or near perfect like you said).

Just take below as example :
A young person that just start working buy a Proton Iswara brand new with alot of small problems. What will he do? Visit a forum and open a thread voice out his frustration.

A middle age manager bought a brand new Merc and facing alot of small problems also. But will he visit forum and voice out his frustration? I in doubt on this.

Such scenario will happen in every business. Some will voice out but some won't.

^^^I will always let my budget do the talking..... But sometimes I just hate when there's a group of people will discriminates such concept.

Cheaper products might have noise issues. But if you have a certain level of skills, you will able to counter such issues. Only those that have no skill will discriminates cheaper brands.
That's why I respect Richard Clark for this. An amp is just an amp.

1. I agree with you on this.

2. I not agree with you on this. Reason is, our local forum is run by acc shops or people that have direct interest on this field while other countries forum are mixed by all level people, from acc shops, manufacturer to end users. I don't see any forum dynamic over here, I see only free advertisments by few acc shop's personal.
I like Agako amps basicly, based on the price/performance ratio. But later I have to sell them off because I need more power and channels for my new setup. And the price I can get them is the price I'm getting Jl Audio amps from US.

3. Focal speakers..... The reason 1 get the tweeters with harsh sound is maybe fake sets. Who knows? That's why I always hate a brand that has fakes around.

^Basicly, I sell speakers is just to get lower price when I'm changing speakers. I treat this as part time job. And have the chance to listen others speaker also, free audition.
Yup, is not wrong to do free ads basicly, but what I don't like is the group bashing that this gang doing.
mycarhifi is run by those acc shops basicly. Is there any effort to quiet others? You are wrong again. As they are moderators, they say the sun is rising from west also can. They can just use their power to slaugther other's post.

Newbies? Yeah, indeed, we can always see newbies trying to ask questions when they have problem. But why? Because nowadays people have not much intention to spend more on acc shops. That's why they open thread here. Changing our experience to them is ok, but then again some acc shops being introduced. How you expect newbies to learn? I in doubt.

Indeed, ICE is hobby, but when there's some jokers say cheap stuffs cannot be listened and always got problem, is this right? For me, this is like a person robbed a bank and say that he is right. For me, with proper skills, it should able to counter potetntial problems. And do you come accross a rm10k hifi set with the active sub internal QC very bad(need to resolder anything inside) and the speaker enclosure leaking?

Use 1 sub and run the sub on its highest impedence. Benefit on doing this is :
you won't stress your alternator and battery
you won't have lights dimming issues
you cannot see red light on your amp

I never check the specs for your sub an amp. But as long as your amp power at highest impedence > sub power, it will be ok. Enclosure also play an important role on this. Go ported as it require lesser power compare to sealed which you need double of the sub power(sub rated 200W means you need atleast 400W from amp).

^Wow, you change your statements very fast... Initially, cheap = fake. But Howie only sell real products? How sure you are on this? Just the name? Now alot of people still not wake up, maybe fast fast change your statement in post#512 will be great(in misleading people).

^Well, if you are not bafukie and is bufukie, you maybe right. But then you are under the same gang, your statement is same as mine, baseless, if thaat's the thing you want to call for.
Well, if you want to defend your friend, go ahead. Already known that you want to help your gang to do free ads here.


On the side note, I guess I've gone a little bit too far by attacking some acc shops and their gang that doing free ads here(especially that coward bafukie and another coward mod from mycarhifi). I'm sorry for that.
Now to all the cowards that always doing personal attacks on me and wanted to help their boss to do business on forums, what can you do to guarantee and safeguard newbies investments? Will you buy back their items if any problem arise?

Like liquiddog's question, for ckmoy, since you change your statement like changing underwear, will you buy them back if Howie do sell fake speakers?

This post has been edited by supersound: Mar 2 2010, 10:36 AM

Ask me to accept them? Means justifying crime is right, can be like this? As you use the word "enthusiasts", what does "enthusiasts" means? For me, "enthusiasts" means that we are neutral and won't simply suggest people to go this or that acc shops. We share knowledge and give free helping hands to people have problems. Do you see other countries ICE forums got such situations(where workers in acc shops doing free ads) except Malaysia and Singapore?
And is good that you understand post #512 and #514. Initial cheap = fake, but after knowing that it is under same gang's shop, cheap = real. What I cannot accept is, the stand changes very fast. And after I state my opinion, others starts to bash me.
And I like your statement on "if you can't fight it, work with it" too. But if I were to work with them, which acc shop concerned will pay me? I won't do free ads for nothing, correct?

This post has been edited by supersound: Mar 2 2010, 04:21 PM

Work with them and agree with them that you can buy a rm0.50 per meter wire for rm10 per meter? I'll pass on this.