Anyone have any experience in operating cafe or kopitiam? I would like to know what is the cost to setup the biz and what to expect in daily operation. Where to buy the table, fridge and other equipment? I'm more interested in setting up my own cafe rather than paying for franchise fees. Thanks!

I guess you would have to do your own research. Or at least get a consultant. No easy way in, and once you invest, no easy way out!

im also planning to open one kopitiam a penang in future...at least no need to work as employee...

Depends on how you want your kopitiam to look like. High class cafe or normal kopitiam selling "tai chau" & "chap fan"? The renovation itself will cost a lot.

Not those "tai chau" and "chap fan" kopitiam. Something like old town or station 1.

those tai chau and chap fan kopitiam earn alot from drinks it self and rent their spaces to those hawkers and food stall its very profitable but location is a very important factor you need to consider

those type of cafes only attract young hippie type of customers, you hardly find ppl going there for the sake of "find something to eat", you are more likely selling your reputation aka goodwill, and most likely only your speciality menu is the only stuff that are sell-able which usually charge at a higher price than usual.

so far these type of f&b business had already dominated by those who started early, it's very hard to find 2 competitors selling the same product both doing very good, for example cold coffee by starbucks, hot coffee by old town, donut by dunkin donut, ice cream by baskin robbins etc, so you need to find something to be branded as your "speciality" that no one had it before.

most of the customers if you try to observe are chinese youngsters, may be you can try to travel to taiwan or china to find some ideas of whats popular there.

Yes I totally agree. Those successful coffee house nowadays has already built their own reputation & customer goodwil. They've already sell its name to the public. Therefore, not only you have to think out of the box for new ideas, you gotta tear it up & look for new ways to attract new business market.

I've also thought about opening a cafe' or coffee house someday. But come and think of it, the startup cost is really high. Only for the renovation itself, already sink out a ton of capital. Not forgetting other equipments you need like refridgerator, coffee maker, oven, toaster etc. Also nowadays, these equipments comes with value added technology and all I can say is it ain't cheap.

I'm kinda into the old skool kopitiam whereby I'll just sell drinks and rent out stalls to hawkers. But as mention, location of the shop lot is the biggest issue. Its the backbone that determines the success of your business.

Don't engage in old skool kopitiam business! My parents are doing exactly that. You will regret it!

:blinkHow's the business doing?

Main issue is good place and good food ie) your hawkers must serve quality stuff o/w you gonna die fast death.

1 guy in bandar baru ampang , nice guy , location + food only so so , couldn't tahan for more than a year . Shame couldn't help him live to far to be regular.

ermm, you can consider opening a kopitiam in Shah Alam. According to my frens working there, they can hardly find any chinese food restaurant during lunch time. So those few outlets there always packed although the food is not really nice. I don't how true is this, u gotta go find out lor.

To open a F&B line, the most challenging is how to hire a kitchen cook .The most advantage is if yourself know how the food receipt, then it easier....
Secondly, my advise, dont spend so much on renovation. The most important in a F&B line is the kitchen. I suggest you survey around all the F&B line, there is a way to renovate it & look luxurious with simple & lesser cost renovation.(i did observe quite a lot that just renovate simple but their restaurant look luxurious)

I do agree with Gary1981, no need to spend so much on renovation, just do a simple and modern clean type. The menu is the core thing, must have something out of box. I guess nobody here have any experience in term of such biz start-up cost.

The start up cost will definitely be "at least" RM200,000. First of all, do you have that kind of money?
Operating cost would be more than RM20,000, if you do not have live band. With live band, easily costing up to RM40,000.
So, unless you are "filthy" rich, then no point to even think of such a business.
People's expectations for such cafeteria are VERY high. If you can't deliver, your business will die off just like that.

True true.. lots of things get copied frm overseas. Eg these dessert cafe & char chan theng is actually very old in hk.. even unc & aunts patronise them for a refreshing dessert at their neighbourhood. My fren actually suggested doing that b4 the trend started in m'sia but too bad no $ dat time.

Taiwan famous for tidbits i heard. Mayb u can make a tour there , holiday & study at same time.

TS!

I suggest you can ignore to have live band....you can anytime play ur own songs..eventually live band cost a lot & it can be not that attractive....the most important is your quality of food & convenience of feeling when the consumer step into your restaurant....
I could suggest you that a sum of RM100k would help you the start up cost...

A F&B line have 3 major categories which are the
1.) Bar & cashier
2.) Shop floor
3.) kitchen

The most important you should concentrate is kitchen & the most investment of cost is the kitchen because the equipement for cooking(is stainless steel), i can suggest you opt for a used god condition kitchen equipment.
From the 100k breakdown, spend abt RM35k to 45k for kitchen, renovation abt Rm30k(try to minimize), 15k for small items(table,chair,glass,cutlery,cabinet) & 10k for others. No need spend on high hp air conditions as i did survey nowadays malaysian tends to seat with fan only(this could save u a lot).....
Last but not least, your head count from bar to kitchen. At initial stage, try minimize your head count not more than 10 ppl(kitchen=4, shop floor=3, bar =2).

My last advise, try to persoanally work in a restaurant & experience the tail & head of the business.I did that for a part time to understand the entire busineess. I had plan my F&B restaurant abt 5 years ago & now im still waiting for the right time.

no need 10 staff la, that's gonna cost more than 10k just human resource alone , as a starter, 2 kitchen, 3 floor and 1 bar is sufficient, the boss do the cashier and runner.

kitchen equipment you can lease for it, it will save you a lot of start up cost (although it will definitely cost more it the long run).

a big chunk should be spend on PR , advertising and marketing. you need to let ppl know your existence, a regular promotion during special occasion is a good strategy.

Business so so only because of current economic situation and location wise its not very good.


Yes, kitchen cook is the most important but what will happen if the kitchen cook ask for a pay raise or something while your business are just about to grow or become black?? Trust me this thing happens more often than you think.


If you want to open a trendy restaurant/kopitiam i don't think you can forgo renovation. Bear in mind my parents started the business 5 years ago and the renovation costs already costs more than 200k. They converted the kopitiam into a mamak style setting if you understand what i mean (lots of tiles to cover the walls). Now imagine the cost now if you take into account the recent fuel price hke and the increase in the price of cement, tiles, paint etc. Heck with just 30k for renovation, the most you can do is repaint the interior wall with a new paint and just that. Interior is very important, customers wont come eating at your restaurant if you have bad interiror.

Again i am not trying to pour cold water on the business, i am just giving out an opinion based on my experience in working there. The good thing about kopitiam business is that you receive cash. But bear in mind you also need to pay cash as ur expenses as well. You should also think about the long hours you are gonna spend on the business (need to wake up early and close late and also no weekend holidays!!). Long hours is not a bad thing but what if there are no customers patronising your shop? You will be sitting there squatting flies and wonder whether you are doing the right decision with your idle time!!!

you also got a big competitor: OLD TOWN KOPITIAM

unless you have something diiferent from theirs, a niche.

RM30k for renovation? But I think you missed out the labour cost as well. Most renovators would be asking for RM50k at least for renovation. The charges for residential and commercial area renovation are different. Wiring alone would cost you more than RM10k for KL. For tables and chairs, it depends on which type would you want. You need people to feel comfortable so that they could sit longer and more regular. You CANNOT compromise on tables and chairs. If you think you can save on the tables and chairs, then you are wrong You need a very nice location for a F&B business, and nice location would cost you more than RM10k just for the deposit. Where can you start it with RM100k? Mind you this is not a budget hotel and if you want to save here and there, customers like us will not come to your place. We still have Old Town to go to

You are right, but you have to remember that not every area has an Old Town
So, if you could find an area with no old town to start, then that would be great.

Jordy,

in a high turnover f&b outlets, like old town, McD, Kim gary etc, it's not always a good idea to have ultra comfortable seatings for the customers because you don't want them to hang out too long, sit around without spending and leave no seats for other incoming customers, because every seats are money and they are limited both numbers and time. so it really depends.

my friend told me RM50k for shop renovation is a very simple & basic renovation only. I'm not sure how true is this

JOrdy!!

That estimation cost is i already quoted from a contractor that i knows. Its depend how you want it to renovate your shop....If you does a lot of homework u can do it with lesser cost but if you just only rely on your renovation contractor, i can bet you thhe 50k is nothing. A nice location is the generic ppl perspective for a business, but do you aware some F&B can survive in a outskirt place. Remember a strategic location will increase your cost & competitiveness.Its has good & bad....Strategic location does not gives you a gurantee of business growth. Try to survey at bangsar telawi 3. I used to work one of the branches F&B restaurant there unfortunately the owner close down becos the so call strategic location business does not able to cover the initial investment cost. Thhe owner close all this branches at bangsar, hartamas but only remain the only his F&B at BU centrepoint(2nd floor)....that place is no way so call straetgic location compare to bangsar & hartamas....

My personal advise, try to minimize you initial cost & do a lot of homework & i gurantee you can do it with the minimal cost. The higher initial cost u invest, the slower your business ROI & if u cant sustain, you will thats it. Start your business & dont compare to others strong capital franchise business like kopitiam....A business should growth from small to big(unless you have straong tycoon financial backup)....

Thank you guys for all the inputs. I'm interested in F&B biz and my purpose of creating this thread is to gather some opinion and info. I do believe renovation can be done at minimal cost. Look at some of the franchise outlet, they only paint the wall and hang some nice photo, no full wall tiles.

Location wise, alternatively can consider office area or business center. It is to cater office crowd for breakfast and lunch, little for dinner I guess.

my friend just ask me want to open a makan shop in Shah Alam or not.
bcos he say that side lack delicious food. even those so-so food restaurant also packed during lunch time bcos the working crowd there really got not much choice. and the food in glenmarie area damn expensive!

You could be right, but for youngsters, they want comfortable settings. I remember during my "younger" days when I really queued up with the others for a place in Kim Gary. Well, those days I used to have my lunch at Kim Gary, so I wouldn't mind, as long as I am promised of good service and comfortable setting

I believe that is true. As I said, it WILL be hard for you to get someone to renovate a shop for you for less than RM50,000.

You have a point, but how many cafeterias really "survived" opening in the non-strategic areas?
In my opinion, don't just use one "lucky" cafeteria to compare with hundreds of others that could be closed down as well.
If you have renovators as friends, then I believe you could ask them to do a makeover for your shop at cheaper rates. But since TS asked this question, it can be assumed that he knows no one. Also, please beware of "friends" as you won't know if they would give you a quality finish.

If you plan to open in office or business centre, do not open a cafeteria. A cafeteria is NOT a place just for quick lunch. It is a place for discussions and get-togethers in my opinion. For quick lunch, those office people would rather have them at coffee shops.
Another problem if you open in these areas, would you have sufficient parking lots? Your business could be affected in the longer term because many people would get frustrated with this problem. If they could find a cafeteria with more parking lots elsewhere, then say bye-bye to your customers

I might be interested
Is it Chinese, Malay or Indian restaurant?
Where exactly is the location?
He has any proposals?

so it's not location, location, location afterall, it's about location, parking, and food.

Dear bro!!you really get my point of view & you hit my jackpot..congrat bro.....this is what i call renovate with minimum cost & it has the unique look....My additional personal advise to you, jsut paint your top wall in black colour & not bright colour..& when i gurantee you will save another penny of renovation cost... Hope you get what i meant. Good luck bro...
My last advise, the kitchen & food is the most important for a F&B business. You can have no knowledge on others sector but you must have the food knowledge & how to cook & you must in control of the chef.

Jordy,

He told me working folks in Shah Alam, don't have much choices when it comes to Chinese food. so he was thinking of opening something like economic rice shop or kopitiam. Something like the chap fan shop in bukit tinggi klang? simple renovation + simple concept = big money

plus, food in shah alam really expensive lor, although it is not so delicious. especially the glenmarie side. Look at the kesas shah alam that side, every morning huge jam because too many ppl going there to work, but when it somes to makan, they have not much choices

Ah, is it "My Home" in Bukit Tinggi Klang? That is a brilliant idea, affordable and good food + lots of varieties. I eat there often
First of all, your friend can cook? Is he going to manage the whole shop himself? I am interested if it is "real" money

Yeah, that's what I call simple renovation + simple concept = big money
although there's a new competitor in the 1toeat which is called Foodex , but it didn't affect "My Home" business much. Sometimes i see their table extend past the bridal shop at night.

I personally think that My Home cooking is better than Foodex.

about the ideas with my fren, actually we are just casually exchanging ideas whenever we meet up. so we didn't really go into serious discussion. He and his wife bz with work, biz and their kid. Me pulak bz with my job and my biz

Yup, I agree that My Home's food is good. That's why you could see me there
So, your friend isn't really interested in setting up the restaurant, isn't it?

yeah next time you going there you PM me lar, so that I can know which one is you

About my fren I don't really know. But somehow I think this is good idea also. But of course before we jump into any conclusion, we should go and survey that area first right?

Haha, sure sure. I agree with the surveying part. If you find it suitable, maybe you could rope me in for a partnership. Better yet if any of you has the expertise in F&B

Well, to anyone who is interested in going down F&B line, please bear in mind is a hell of a job.

You have to prepare for long hours, insufficient rest and sleep, no REAL off days (If you are the boss, then you better be there, can't expect the ship to sail without its captain!), sleepless nights, tired feet and hands etc.

If you are prepared for the stress on your body and mind, then please prepare at least RM200,000 at THE MINIMUM for a small cafe.

Even if you don't do much renovation, you need money and cashflow to sustain you for at least 3 to 6 months.

If you are thinking opening up a cafe or restaurant just because you want to be your boss, forget it. You have to be the best EMPLOYEE in your restaurant.

You are the first one to arrive in the morning, the last one to leave.
You should be the first one to calm down a complaining guest, the person they will blame on the most for their bad experience.

Overall, owning a restaurant is no joke, only if you had to passion to service you can last.

that's the reason I never open my own restaurant. Few of my friends own restaurant and it is a hell of a job. Unless you are really only sitting at the cashier. But by sitting at the cashier only shows that you are not a good boss.

Could someone explain about this 1toeat Sdn Bhd to me? Is it a company that owns coffeeshop style kopitiams?

Actually, all along I'm also more interested in these kind of so-called "old school" kopitiams rather than cafes, especially outside the city areas. Jordy, count me in for the partnership too! Haha it seems we have several business owners and interested investors but not enough people with F&B experience to run the daily operations...

this 1 to eat is all over Klang, I think puchong side also got (somebody clarify please?).

They are doing the many stalls type of corner lot makan shop lar.

To me I think they are very successful. They can open few shop in 1 area, eg: Bukit Tinggi, Klang. Every shop have different name but all own by the same company I think.

Thanks zenwell. Does anyone know if they own the shoplots or rented it from someone else?

I'm actually interested in this model of operation and even opened a thread to discuss it in the Property sub-forum. Take over a makan-shop, spruce it up, make it simple but clean and hygienic with clear and attractive signboards. Self-run the drinks stall and rent the food stalls out. Anyone interested in such a venture? Oops have we accidentally hijacked this thread??

now lots of ppl going into this biz. But there will be problem if no customer patronize your shop and nobody will rent from you also. But looking at the positive side, this business is good, no doubt about that. Most prefer to target the working crowd as the operating hours are not so long. Sunday no need to open. But of course earning will be less. Well I will see if anyone interested to do joint venture, I will contact you and Jordy. Meantime if got other oppoturnities, I will let you guys know as well.

How much can a kopitiam like oldtown earn? anyone know the approx figure?

I agree with you beebuu. Was put in charge of operating a small cafe only during the weekend functions (part time) and it was already quite taxing.

Although it was more of a service rather than an actual business, it does give a some insight and a glimpse of what owning a business in F&B would look like.

Some people think that because they love cooking and have a passion to cook that they will be able to open a successful restaurant, but it takes much more than that. It must be coupled with determination, some financial knowledge and a whole lot of people skills.

Of course, all businesses have their own challenges

And you need to have very good staff! My friend who have a cafe, the food is nice but the attitude of the staff is so bad that the customer goes away. There is really a lot of things to consider before going into this.

Hi just to share with you, in opening a cafe / kopitiam business, you need approximately RM250k for a
place with approx 1,700sq. ft.

Most important, you must be passion towards your business despite the long hours working schedule.

Anyhow, if you really serious abt opening one and needed help in setting up, you may
write to me @ candywong@mcwcorporation.com as i do provide service in assisting clients
to open up outlet where they already have their ideas and places.

My scope of covering will be like,
1. Suppliers sources
2. Menu & Recipes creation / standardization
3. Operation advises
4. Concept & Renovation

The fee charge will be base on your requirements, and not too worried as I wont charge too high
price as it is only my sub-business despite my interest of sharing experiences and giving advises.

Feel free to visit my website too www.mcwcorporation.com

Well I come across this posting just today. Was searching around for some people who have experience in opening a kopitiam style shop.

I am not sure if anyone here still post or read this posting since it stop since 2009! But at least contributing some experience here might help.

My experience is totally in F&B, it have been 14 years since I start work until now. I have help to open countless shop front for my employer and even oversea. But my experience is more to Singapore and Malaysia is mostly observe. The regulation is more or less the same.

Actually it is not hard to open a shop but most important is the passion. If you are financially short, well think of something within the budget. But plan ahead of 2 budget, your renovation and working capital. Renovation if possible keep it small like what the rest of the bro's advise. You will need your working capital as big as possible as this will be use for your day to day operation.

F&B is a cash business! what you earn is all by cash exchange for the service and food serve (credit card is the same but well... interest will be charge!) As you will be new in this line and no backing, unlikely supplier will extend credit term for you! So ... all your daily purchase will be by cash as well! So plan carefully and watch your cost! everything count ... even water and electicity.

If no exprience, why dont start small? simple as long the food and service is there ... people will be back with more business and slowly from there you expand! then again, every n3, 6 and 1 years try look into your menu, whichever not popular, erase it! Switch to a new one ... excite and suprise your customer!

Color wise for the shop front, perhaps all bro here should consider something bright and strong ...

well this is some of the simple experience in choosing your shop and business. If anyone need to discuss , well drop me email or PM me ... if possible will be glad to assist!

Cheers ...

---

Added on November 18, 2010, 1:19 amThis post has been edited by jackygan: Nov 18 2010, 01:19 AM

NOTICE: This domain name expired on 02/19/2011 and is pending renewal or deletion

My brother open his 1st kopitiam at bukit jelutong. he brought corner shop lots and and make renovation almost 150k.

for first month,hard to get customer and second month,customer keep on coming ever days after change the menu style(unique menus) and business hour(7am till 1am).

Kopitiam concept is actually what I called a 'Rasa Sayang Cafe' where normal local fare are sold at slightly upscale prices to offset the higher renovation cost. It is a good concept with a lower price for coffee and tea compared to Starbucks and Coffee Bean. There are already many successful 'Kopitiams' notably Old Town, the rest like Kluang Station, Pak Hailam and many others who do not want franchise.

For this concept, location is very important. I also see many Uncle something in Bdr.Mahkota Cheras which failed and also one in Cameron Highlands that also failed. The one in CH is funny, CH the majority being chinese, the shop hung big white lanterns on the front resulting it looking like a chinese funeral parlour. This is what I call not doing research. There are some places that are still very very conservative and they definately won't pay RM3 to RM4 for a coffee and pay RM7 to RM8 for a nasi lemak no matter what condiments you have. To this people, renovations and ambience means nothing.

Research the area's spending capabilities before venturing. One popular criteria is area. Old areas like most PJ's old area have better spending capabilities because the house they are living would have been fully paid meaning more money to spend.

Rm 150k ~300K- monthly
Nett 10%

Cafe beter

Starting a cafe restaurant.

Start business this month.

Will issue Promotion Voucher soon.

Keep reading this post.

Location : Jalan Maharajalela, after Hotel Mandarin Court.

This post has been edited by great.eastern: Apr 1 2013, 08:55 PM

kopitiam better.

Hi fellow forumers,

I have a question to anyone with prior experience or have been quoted for renovation + ID + kitchen + table&chairs costs out there.
Well basically put, it I have been given an estimate from franchisor that I will need as much as 320k to set up in a retail outlet which basically will allow me to start operation...the mentioned will include:

Partitioning for enclosed kitchen with glass see through panel above counter height
Kitchen renovation for pipes, gutters etc.
Wiring
Stainless Kitchen equipments
Table & Chairs
POS machines
Interior Design wall panels
Dropped down false ceiling storewide to create soft lighting
Counter
Mirrors
Lighting fixtures
Flooring panels

The outlet in mind would be about 1400sq ft which works out to be 1400x RM 225 per sq ft = RM315,000

Is this way over estimated or is this competitively priced? The sum price would be RM 225 per sq ft if we just do an estimate to include all the above. I might have missed out some on the list.

Any help or feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks in advance to the sifus out there

hi all, is it easy to get those kopitiam (foodcourt) business license?

customers are harder

...

This post has been edited by sms1987: Jan 14 2015, 11:54 AM

So....does anyone here start up a Cafe/Kopitiam business? I am interest to know and learn.

If you are really serious about starting the business, you may pm me as I’m in the industry at klang valley. Perhaps we can work out something in the business.

Feel free to PM me. Cheers.