okay, now i have a few questions on the CLP in Malaysia.

as i know, there are only 2 providers; BAC and ATC.

alsree, i see you're very informed about universities.

I will be considering these 2 institutes and it's not a decision i can make immediately. need some advices here!

which one would you guys recommend. personally, ive been to the BAC lecture hall for CLP and it doesnt look very inviting to me. I mean I can't imagine myself attending lectures at that hall, maybe it's just me.

what about in terms of lecturers and modes of teaching ?

hope to get some feedback here. thanks very much

alsree
Thanks for the reply. So, you are saying that a UOL external graduate without at least a 2:2 honours has no chance of taking the CLP and go into legal practice? Not even after getting an LLM? No second chance at all? What about re-doing LLB at another university?

Is it true that the min. 2:2 requirement applies to UOL external graduates only and not graduates from other universities?

This post has been edited by tehtmc: Aug 5 2010, 04:14 PM

Well, i think both institutes offer quite adequate CLP education eventhough BAC is quite well known with its track record.
However, in my view, it makes no difference as long as you are self disciplined.
In fact, though some would say BAC has better lecturers, I see the reasons why they did well is because they worked very hard.
BAC provides you with extensive course materials however, like even a sample Q&A, which those top students didnt really rely on.
So, choose whichever you feel comfort with....?

Honestly, there is little difference between the two colleges. BAC has about 300 to 350 students on average every year for CLP whereas ATC is about 120 to 150. Both are in rather cramped places. Their notes are about the same. The only difference would be in lecturers. For ATC, their lecturers are okay with a couple of really mediocre ones. There are of course pretty good ones with Kevin, Ravi and Mr Joseph being commendable. But I was generally satisfied with ATC. BAC may have better results but honestly, I dun really give a crap about how well other students do. And for CLP, no one really cares whether you get great results. A pass is all u need. If pass rates matter, both institutes are about the same i think...ATC is only slightly higher.
So, I would recommend going to the college where you feel most comfortable and maybe have closer friends.


The LLM does not have any weight towards recognition. It is not a pre requisite. The requirements to be a qualified person is on page 1. Please read through.

alsree - Care to reply to my last question? Will appreciate it very much, thanks.

Further to my earlier post on the question of 'other options' for an external UOL student who is not confident of getting a 2:2, I've found out that students do transfer to universities in UK to further their studies. This is one way to circumvent the 2:2 requirement for CLP as I understand students only need a pass from a full-time uni to be eligible for the CLP, am I right?

Some of the unis that would accept UOL students into the third year are - West England, Northumbria, Abertyswyth and Hertfordshire, the same ones which are twinned with the private law schools like BAC.

I guess all the unis are recognized by the Bar Council? Any comments about these options? Which of the unis are better?

Extracted from Page 1 of this thread - "*There is a requirement of a lower second class honours for University of London (External) Law graduates in gaining recognition for their degrees from the LPQB but the same rule does not apply to Internal Students."

Please ask Schizoprenic for the reference.

As for the second part of your question, it is true that students may transfer but Im curious to know at which stage of his studies is your friend currently in (I do not assume)...and has he received his Part I results yet? Your first post stated that "He did not do very well for his first and second years"...but considering that exams are in May/June and results come out late August, did he also do his Part II this year? Do clarify.

The reason is, if he has done PART II in May I am unsure whether a graduate may apply for transfer, my initial inkling is No. But anyway, if possible, that'll be a good way to circumvent the current problem.

Anyway, amongst the unis mentioned, I guess UWE is the best. I have met a few UWE grads and they are pretty good...practicing in good firms. I don't really bother about rankings but Guardian ranks Aber above the rest. But based on the number of practitioners from UWE here in good firms, stick with UWE imo. That's the only gauge I have. A student from one of the Unis mentioned may provide better insight.

It doesn't matter if the Malaysian Bar Council refuse to recognise any of the Unis. Like I said before, the institution must be recognised either by the LPA or the Qualifying Board. The Qualifying Board and the Bar Council are two separate statutory bodies.

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Added on August 6, 2010, 3:13 pmThe requirement for a lower second class honours is common knowledge among UOL students applying for CLP.
However, the copy that I have of the guidelines by the Qualifying Board is 18.3.1995. The 2:2 requirement was imposed a few years later. I do not have access to any if at all it exist, newer guidelines by the Qualifying Board.

Like I always say, contact the Qualifying Board if you have doubts. :-)


This post has been edited by schizophrenic: Aug 6 2010, 03:13 PM

alsree

My friend sat and passed his Part I in 2009. He studied for his II two but decided to defer registering and sitting for his exam. He encountered some problems getting his thesis topic approved. He was taking tuition privately and the tutor passed away half way through the course.
For his Intermediate, his average mark was above 50 whereas for his Part I, his average was below 50. He would need to do much better in his Part II to get a 2:2.

The other question is : if he were to go ahead and sit for his Part 2 and fail to qualify for 2:2, can he also transfer to do his final year again at one of the unis in UK as mentioned.

Mr Anand?

Firstly, as you may know, Intermediate results are irrelevant. Secondly, it is widely accepted that the jump from Inter to Part I for UOL makes Part I seem to be the hardest year amongst the three (for the normal scheme). Statistically, most students don't do as well for Part I as they do for Part II. It would be easier to gauge whether he shud just try for a 2:2 if we or if privacy matters, then I am provided with his marks for the 4 subjects taken at Part I level.

Further, as for your second question, I'm sorry, but I am really uncertain as to whether that is possible. I don't think the universities will allow such transfers, but anyway the best way to find out is to contact the universities mentioned directly.

Hope I helped.

appreciate the replies. made things clearer to me now.

Hi. It's great to see your post here. I have some questions to ask for your guidance. I am currently a chambering student in Ipoh. I have just started for 2 weeks. However, I am not comfortable with the working environment there. The firm had been established since 30 years ago. Nevertheless, because of the employer's problem, the old staffs all resigned. The staffs now are new and some even just joined the firm few months ago. My master is very fierce and strict to me. If i dont understand anything and i ask him about it he will look at me and say sarcastically:" like this u also dont understand?" but i just graduated from University 1 month ago. Besides, as i said earlier, all the staff are new. The LA is new too. Therefore, the operation of the firm is slow and messy. I dont know how to handle the workload. I have noone to guide me also. I wish i could change another firm but i have filed in Form 1 to 5 and have paid RM300 for the fees. I have got my short call last friday. I am so frustrated because i am there to learn yet i have to deal with the old cases left behind by the former clerks and lawyer. Everyday i am so stressful because i am answerable not only to my master, i have to deal with the clients, answer phone calls, and doing paper works. The conveyancing clerk comes after 6. so i have noone to guide me yet the clients are chasing after me because of the cases. I will get scolded by my master and clients. i wish to change to another firm but i have no idea what are the procedures. my master has paid me the RM300 for the forms. do i need to pay again if i were changing to another firm? thank you so much!

This post has been edited by daphne911: Aug 10 2010, 10:53 AM

Thanks alsree again for the advice. Yes, Mr Anand. He may be a great lecturer but I don't believe one lecturer can be master of all subjects. I am also not in favour of idea of attending private evening tuitions which is really meant for working people.

If he were to carry on with Part 2, there is the risk of not making it to 2:2. The risk is higher judging from his past performance. He has only been scraping through his previous exams.

If he were to transfer to study for final year in UK uni, he is more or less assured of being eligible for CLP as long as he passes the internal uni exams, which should be easier than external UOL.

The 2nd option, though more expensive, is safer. Unless there is the other 'fail-safe measure' of doing the final year again at the UK uni after completing the UOL with less than a 2:2 - an option he is trying to find out.

My advice to him is: better be safe/play safe than to be sorry later.

This post has been edited by tehtmc: Aug 11 2010, 12:01 PM

Well usually a full time lecturer can teach about 5 to 6 subjects especially when they are quite senior. Further, he had a team of lecturers with him, I don't think it was just him that was handling everything. Anyway, the 2006 KCL scholarship winner was his student if im not mistaken.

Alrite, he's your friend, and I'm sure you will be much more familiar with his capabilities. Anyway, honestly, if your friend cannot handle getting a 2:2 for UOL, with that, it'll be hard for him to pass the CLP the first time at least. The CLP is twice the bulk of the UOL prog and is 5 subjects spread over 1 1/2 weeks. I would have thought that getting a 2:2 and going to the UK to do the BPTC would maybe be a better option. Further, the problem with most UOL students (myself included ) is that they tend to start studying only in February or March, with exams being in May/June.

My advice to your friend would be to work harder (and maybe smarter as well), whatever his next step.

Do you mean sitting for the UK Bar? I understand the requirement for doing that is quite high, higher than the requirement for sitting for the Malaysian CLP. The reason for him considering going to UK for final year is to get round the CLP requirement in the first place. Of course, if he can do well there in the final year to meet the Bar requirements, that would be added bonus.

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Added on August 11, 2010, 4:30 pmHi Daphe
Sorry about the unhappy state of affairs you are in. It's like being thrown into deep water and learning to swim. Well, try to look at it from the positive side, you'll be on a steep learning curve.
I am sure you can change to another job since you are not happy with your present job. I am from a different profession but also based in Ipoh. I have always thought that it is advisable for fresh graduates to get their experience and exposure in bigger cities. I understand that most of the firms in Ipoh are sole-proprietor setups - lean and mean, more business-orientated that being professional. Good luck.

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Added on August 11, 2010, 4:42 pmalsree

I have another question to ask.

You seem to be more in favour of my friend completing his Part 2 UOL.

In professional practice, what degrees are more highly regarded - an external LLB from UOL or a LLB from any of the universities in UK? Or does it not matter unless you are from one of those top-rated universities? From the point of view of the employers i.e. the legal firms? From the point of view of the clients?

I would have thought that once you are out in the working world, it's not what qualification you have or what you know but who you know that makes the difference in whether you get the job or not. More so, in the legal profession. As for litigation cases, you establish your reputation through your track record of your practice, the cases won?

This post has been edited by tehtmc: Aug 11 2010, 04:55 PM

Is HELP LLB recognised by LQPB?

No, it is not a recognised qualification for purposes of a 'qualified person' under s.3 of the LPA.

Anyway it is the LPQB or 'Qualifying Board'.

:-)

is it qualified for the board if don't have a Credit in BM in spm, but already passed a-levels and had done LLB ?

You may sit for the CLP exams but you must take your BM Qualifying Examination before being eligible to file your final papers for your petition for admission into the Malaysian Bar (Commonly known as your long call papers).

thanks for the info. the BM Qualifying Examination is a must ? even there's credit in BM in spm,

You will be eligible for exemption if you have a credit in BM for SPM