I'm more worried about no shop wanting to buy / trade in the 18" tyres and rims because if it comes with a weird offset, and that the shop can only sell it to Mazda6 owners.

cuz lancer GT 18" also has weird size...
but still got people take in what


i think mazda6 should be quite common...

225/45/18
or is it
215/45/18

HID = High Intensity Discharge lamp which is also xenon headlights. Check around the web for an explanation. You can't call the headlights HID if it uses halogen. One of the beams in your car has to be using xenon bulbs, it could be low or high or both. If they state HID in their specifications and give halogen headlights for both low and high instead, then the specification would be misleading.

My Corolla does come with solar and security tint, but I have no idea what brand Toyota uses. My SA says its Llumar, others say Ecotint. At the end of the day, it's always better to do it yourself. But if you're already paying so much money for your car, would you settle for anything less than the best? I think not.

I use the Garmin Nuvi 200W and it works great with Malsing maps.

Do you think you spend more time in KL and suburban areas or do you think you spend more time travelling outstation? Chances are, if you reside in KL/Selangor area, you would spend more time around time then out of it. Regardless of which, you still want to be as comfortable as possible and I think has a lot of comfort and convenience amendities in it.

I agree with you if it's in Malaysia - the level of equipment is one of the defining differences between C&D segment cars.
But I don't agree with you if it's outside of Malaysia where the difference is more with the trim level and size of the car than level of equipment.

And I won't dispute that it's good value, but based on what you've said:

Gives me the impression that you aren't willing to spend that bit of money to improve your car. So if that's the case, then I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who would feel the additional features isn't justification enough for the 7k price difference.

This post has been edited by zweimmk: Aug 19 2008, 12:01 AM

there's 7k different, not 8k.

it'll makes ppl think twice for the gap, that's y i said bermaz decided to increase 3k is not a wise move.

but if i have a chance to choose again, i'll still choose m6.
i think it's worth the 7k extra. the BOSE sound system i think already cost 7k already. and not forget the name of "CBU". also it has the features i like... sunroof, keyless entry,push start,BOSE audio... that's just me.

if someone look for comfortable ride, think should go for accord or camry. i'll choose camry for comfy ride.


from what i know, HID is different with halogen.




Kcng,
i feel 18" more match with the m6 sporty look ler. just change to better design rims and the car will look

yeah its nice but performance rubbers in 18" size is not cheap leh


if normal tyres ok la but performance like AD07 / RE001 / RE01R for 18" is killa

Bi-Xenon would mean both low and high beams are using Xenon bulbs. Do you think if the Accord would have this, they would not advertise it as a premium feature? Why would people complain that the Accord does not have it if indeed it actually does? Something to think about.



Precisely. You've answered your own question and my own doubts for me. Your Altis included it as part of Toyota's sales' package for the Altis. Many other cars do this too. The Suzuki Vitara and the SX4 Sedan / Hatchbacks also do this too. Most of the time, the origin of the tinting is unknown and taken as correct from the SA.

So, do you still insist that the price of the car should include tinting package for the likes of Accord and Mazda6 base on your indispensible ammendities for comfort and take out "unnecessary" options like rain sensing wipers, paddle shift, 18" wheels and auto headlights?



Precisely. But I chose to select a balance of comfort, performance, driving satisfaction and safety. If I had used comfort as my only primary yardstick, I would have gone with the Camry. If I had used brand name as my only primary yardstick, I would have gone with the Accord. My wife would be happy too with those other choices. Well, I cannot blame her for her herd mentality. But now after finally getting the Mazda6, there's not one bit of regret from my wife going with the Mazda6 and she was very happy with the choice made.



I believe the ratings and categories C/D etc are just not categories made up in Malaysia. The categories C/D etc are defined by the generic autoworld industry and not defined by Malaysian auto industry? No?



I personally don't feel the need to change to 17" tyres. I mentioned 17" would be good for ride comfort because it is indeed the truth. Secondly, I personally think it's a lot of wastage just changing brand new tyres + rims even before using them. That's partly one fo the reasons why I choose the Mazda6 instead of Accord or Camry and made my buying decission base on several test drives with the Mazda6 on 18" wheels. Why would I revert to 17" and pay more money? It just does not make sense to me.

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Added on August 19, 2008, 4:10 am

Haiya... If other people say 8k, we just agree lor...



Well, certain people do not think it's worth it just because Camrys and Accords that are selling around the same price do not have them. Therefore these other equipments normally found on premium cars like Lexus and BMW are considered as worth nothing on a car like Mazda6.


This post has been edited by jchue73: Aug 19 2008, 04:10 AM

U need not to worry about that issue. I think there will be quite a number of M6 2.0L owner would like to have ur RIM in a few more months later once our m6 get more popular.

You're right. I forsee that Mazda6 2.0L owners as the only potential clients for the 18" tyres and rims. But then would it void their warranty if they change from stock 16" to 18" tyres? Acceleration would certainly suffer since it's 2.0L.

but really some ppl will feel those features useless to them. no right or wrong, one man's meat is another man's poison ma.
like those who choose toyota comfy drive will hard to accept mazda sporty tune. my dad feel his friend's C-class crappy compare to camry coz of it's firm ride. makes me lol when he told me, but he got his point base on comfy ride rite... . so i think it's hard to compare cars with different charactor. it's all up to personal preference.

i heard nissan already increase their car price, and toyota gonna raise their price too. i think honda will follow them very soon. same to our proud local brand car with no special discount now. correct me if im wrong.

You know...ppl who says those extra features in Mazda 6 as 'useless' is like telling someone why buy a Rolex or Piaget when you can get correct time with Seiko or Casio? These are the ppl who will usually buy a Toyota or Honda..IMO Mazda owners are more passionate and sophisticated when it comes to owning a car.....It is all individual preference..Some may find it useless but others might appreciate it...At least we know, Singaporean really appreciate it..

As far as i know, if you put bigger rim like 18' to a OEM 16' car, you need to change the suspension too...because the big rim, you need a harder suspension setup...I m not sure if they have the same bearing too....

not sure about that, but I do personally prefer big tyres, especially the Wider ones

You have to ask Honda then, I wouldn't know. But it is certain Honda Malaysia states on its website for the Accord 2.4 VTi-L to have HID headlights. As I have said before, you may have xenon headlights for either low, high or both. In the Accord's case, I think it has just the low beam as xenon HID. Actual confirmation will still have to come from a 8th gen. Accord owner on this.

Hey if it was up to me, I wouldn't mind not having rain sensing wipers, paddle shift, 18" wheels and auto headlights for a lower price and use the cost savings for something else. But I wouldn't sacrifice HID headlights or cruise control at any day for tinting. Alternatively, if they sacrifice the 4 items mentioned and gave me a power seat with massage function (OSIM car seats anyone?) or in-dash DVD with sat-nav, I would be very happy with that as those features would serve a more practical purpose

This is my breakdown and my opinion of why they are unnecessary:

Rain sensing wipers - nice to have but seriously, how difficult is it to turn the wiper knob? It's already by the steering wheel
Auto Headlights - note in this case I mean auto on/off and not AFS. The reasoning is the same with rain sensing wipers.
Paddle shift - nice feature to shift from the steering wheel but most people keep their gear in D for automatics, even with my car - I have really yet to bother with the sequential shifting. Not likely I would bother much with Paddle shifting.
18" wheels - I'm not driving a sports car, it's a mid-size family sedan. It's not like I'm going to be racing in it, I guess it improves cornering but it's not like I'm going to be doing an Initial D anytime soon. So if 17 inch is good enough and more comfortable, why bother with an 18 inch?

My point is they could have given something else with better value.
Still, what the Mazda 6 offers is a level better than what's offered in the local Accord or the Camry. No arguments about that.

The difference between C & D catagories is with size, nor will I dispute the engine size between the 2 segments. But it seems to me you're talking about the difference coming down to the equipment found between C & D catagories. But as far as amendities goes, they both can have the same level of options. Just do a lookup on various C-segment cars in different countries. Let's take the US Mazda 3 for example - the grand touring trim has ALL the options you've described found in Mazda 6. The Corolla in Thailand - has all the features found in the Mazda 6 except for Bose premium speakers and 18 inch wheels. The Civic in Thailand - again has all the features found in Mazda 6 save for Bose premium speakers and 18 inch wheels. It's the same story with Singapore, China, Taiwan and Hong-Kong. To add more insult to injury, these same cars all have an optional sat-nav and reverse camera function found elsewhere but not here.

I certainly hope you're not impling me here Btw, I would not consider any of those features (eg. keyless entry) mentioned as premium because they have been available to the same cars in other countries (just not in Malaysia) but your argument holds water because these features are not found in the local Camry or Accord.

Oddly enough a lot of these features we've listed are found in the Peugeot 407 CKD at a much lower pricing, which really makes you wonder about Honda's pricing Even if you draw a median between the 2 different marque, the price difference is still considerable.

This post has been edited by zweimmk: Aug 19 2008, 12:48 PM

Well your statement make me think our local T & H are selling cars with low features @ rip off price.

I still wonder why all Malaysian cars are having less features even Bermaz drop the Mazda6 GPS feature, voice recon feature etc, and we are paying nearly twice the price of the original car price.

This post has been edited by billytong: Aug 19 2008, 01:05 PM

Edited:

I think I just made a mistake on the 407, which is a 2.0L car right?

The comparison should be with the Peugeot 407 2.0 vs the Mazda 6 2.0 vs the Accord 2.0 and the Camry 2.0

Camry: RM 151,246.10
Accord: RM 141,800.00
Mazda 6: RM 147k+
Peugeot 407: RM 133k+

The price difference is about over 10k and better loaded with features and this difference becomes even more glaring vs. the 2.4&2.5 variants. Still, even though the Accord and Peugeot fall under CKD, you really have to wonder if they pay the same kind of taxes Huge price discrepancy.

Added:

More interestingly now is Volvo's move, to quote from motortrader

This post has been edited by zweimmk: Aug 19 2008, 03:01 PM

I hv to agree with some who said 407 is a old model...Yes, continental cars normally change their model later than the japanese but this 407 is already almost 5 years...Obviously globally the demand will be much lower now....

Normal cars won't have it. Premium cars would. Is it a sin to have these features for the same price range as cars that do not have it?

Putting the question the other way around... Do you see a mark decrease in price for Accord's case? Why is the Accord only slightly cheaper than the Mazda6 despite not having all the features like rain sensing wipers, paddle shift, 18" wheels and auto headlights? Is CKD price indeed more expensive than CBU?



Yes, but I'm sure you've experienced situations when heavy rain is mixed with light intermittent rain and this can go on. The rain sensors would determine the aqequate speed of the wiper without us having to manually intervene to increase wiper speed when the rain pours down heavy or reduce speed when rain is light. Isn't that comforting for the driver? Isn't that what application of technology is all about?



Going in and out of tunels, the light sensor switches on the lights when it thinks that the surrounding ambient light is insufficient. Going from darkness to daylight say coming out of a parking lot would automatically switch off the headlights.



I guess you and my wife can belong to the same group. If you're not the sort who likes driving, then paddle shifting is not for you. The old style manual overide in Automatic gearboxes are usually the ones using the conventional stick to manually upshift or downshift the gears. Now they put it on the steering wheel (technology and idea borrowed from F1) and makes it convenient for the driver to make downshifts and upshifts without taking their hands off the steering wheel thus making it safer and more convenient for the driver to concentrate on driving. Isn't this what technology is about?



Don't confuse between drifting and racing with better driving excitement and high performance by associating things like 18" wheels and paddle shifting with racing. If I was racing, I would not even consider the Mazda6. If you're not the sort who thrives for better driving excitement, then 18" wheels are not for you. Period. Yeah there's always 17".

Perhaps you should write to BMW, Audi and Lexus and post a question to them on why they offer 18" wheels as option on their cars. Maybe it's a good idea that they follow the cue and stick with 14" in their standard family saloons. Saves everybody money since 18" tyres belong on the track.



Can you give examples? Better tinting (which this argument has already been shot down)? Replace the stock seats with OSIM iMedic? Come on. We need to be realistic here.

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Added on August 19, 2008, 3:44 pm

What I meant by features is the gadgets in the car. Ride comfort is directly related to suspension setup. If people like floaty type of driving, the Camry is nice. But if you like a little more excitement and performance in driving, then the Mazda6 provides it.

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Added on August 19, 2008, 3:44 pm

Yeah, like the 20" tyres on the CX-9.

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Added on August 19, 2008, 3:45 pm

But that does not explain the little price differences of the Mazda6 and the Accord as both prices were established during the same time.

This post has been edited by jchue73: Aug 19 2008, 03:45 PM

Definitely not a sin and after some thought I think it doesn't really cost too much to have:

1. Rain sensing wipers
2. Auto on/off lights

Both of these are sensor driven like your car alarm or parking sensors and I doubt it cost much.
Paddle shifting is another matter though, it probably does command somewhat of a premium but since I'm no expert, I will avoid commenting on that. On the other hand, the 18" wheels will probably contribute some price difference as compared to a normal 17".

I definitely can't answer this question because I don't know how Honda's prices and costing structure is. It could be for profit or it could be for other reasons, but at the end of the day, a CKD car should scale according to its price and equipment and am, the Accord isn't scaling very well if you put the Peugeot 407 into the mix. I've never really looked at the Mazda 6 2.0 equipment list so I have no idea how well the 2.0 compares to each other.

I agree, no dispute that it does add some comfort value though it really is near negligible to me. It would be nice to have and should have been included since its doubtful that this feature would really add much cost.

It's actually not too hard to switch on the lights yourself, which is why I said the reason was same as the rain sensing wipers. I do agree that it's great that you it does add some comfort level due to the fact that everything is automated. Again though, the value it offers isn't really that significant imo although it really should be a feature that should have been included since it is doubtful this particular feature would cost much.

Didn't I already do that? Put in Power driver seats with basic shiatsu & momi function or an In-dash DVD with sat-nav as a trade for paddle shifters, 18 inch wheels, rain sensing wipers and auto-on/off lights. You may not agree with the power seats but I think you will agree the In-dash DVD with sat-nav holds a bigger draw than say the 18 inch wheels, rain-sensing wipers and auto-on/off lights right? 3 out 4 of these items combined should at least equate the price of an In-dash DVD player with sat-nav don't you think?

No it does not, but strictly speaking the Accord 2.0 and 2.4 is still cheaper; the value for money factor on the other hand, is definitely suspect.
Reasons are probably what we've debated earlier in the thread. The additional of the Volvo S40 in the Camry/Accord & Mazda 6 price range now tosses things up more.

One common thought would probably be: Rather than paying so much for the Camry/Accord/Mazda 6, why not go for the Volvo? It's in the same price range.

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Added on August 19, 2008, 4:36 pmGlobally, I don't think the Peugeot brand has ever fared very well

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the Peugeot brand is:

Non-existent in America
Average in Europe and probably rubbish in UK where it gets consistently bashed by Top Gear peeps
Very low market penetration in Asean countries
No idea about China/Japan/Australia
No idea about South America

This post has been edited by zweimmk: Aug 19 2008, 04:37 PM

Just a stupid question? all our cars now make of steel? Does that mean rusty proof?

Rush proof and chemical resistant only if it's stainless steel. If it's mild steel sheets then it will rust. Even galvanised steel will rust after sometime. High tensile steel is probably an alloy combination but does not make it immune to rusting if exposed to air. That's why you have a few layers of car paint to prevent rusting.

Well, I'm admitedly shy to say that the Mazda6 2.0L variant is very sparse from features for it's price. From a price point of view, I believe you can get better value elsewhere.

But then again if people value the zoom zoom driving dynamics of a Mazda6, the 2.0L offers it. Just that it's plane Jane.



That's correct. I've been doing that since day one of driving. Our parents have done that and never complained. But then this is what we call technology advancement associated with premium cars. You would say the same for reverse camera and automated parking assist on Lexus that even parks the car for you automatically !

If based on current pricing and tax structure in Malaysia, cars that are sold below RM 100k would be excused for not having these features. Yes, indeed they don't look too expensive to add.



I'm still awed by the 407's inclusion of the in car Sat-Nav at such a low price point. But not having it is really nitpicking. How many cars out there besides the 407 can boast the inclusion of a built-in Sat-Nav? Those that have it are not within the price range of a normal wage income earner. But most Sat-Nav options that I've come across includes Bluetooth and Reverse Camera budled together. So probably that explains the premium price while the one on the 407 does not have Bluetooth and reverse camera.

This is the only thing on my wish list for the Mazda6. But then I would cringe at the thought of the price addition.



The recent announcement of the S40 really caught my eye. But I'm actually a little confused by what is included and what is not in that price. The downloadable brochure from the website says one thing (perhaps it's a generic brochure) but if you look at the website under Features and Options of the S40, it says the 2.4L standard version does not come with this and that. I would reserve my judgement and hold on to that thought.

Perhaps you could start a new thread discussing about the Volvo S40. I would think it would attract a lot of input.