Wong Seafood,

How would u deal with Sales Charge in your CAGR worksheet? Especially when u have switched from Fund A to Fund B, and the SC of Fund A gets "credited" to Fund B, thus u need not incur SC on Fund B?

@silentemotion

Thanks, Wilmar is on my watchlist

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Added on August 23, 2012, 11:44 pm
@wongmunkeong

Thank you. Will take your views into consideration

My 60% are all in normal stocks. I'm aggresive and aim for deeply undervalued stocks that are potential multi-baggers as opposed to those offering steady returns, so no REITs for me. Am a property owner, but not keen on renting out properties.

Regarding my 5% stock exposure every month, it's my clumsy version of dollar cost averaging (nope, I do not take into account my monthly savings ) My reasoning is "one bird in the hand is worth two in the bush". The political leaders and central bankers seem determined to prevent the Day of Lelong. So I start accumulating now, and take comfort in the fact that many of the stocks I'm buying is at 3 year lows price- and valuation-wise.

Btw. Cerebos Pacific is being taken private. And you might want to consider Sembcorp Industries instead of Sembcorp Marine.

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Added on August 23, 2012, 11:46 pm@Pink Spider

Sorry, I got lost

But I got some EPF money in mutual funds mah

This post has been edited by Angel On Fire: Aug 23 2012, 11:49 PM

You are right.. Totally diff from 2003 to 2007. Personally.. I like the 2003 version..

Sifus,

Currently I'm holding funds as below
1. Eastspring Investments Asia Pacific Equity MY Fund
2. AMB Dividend Trust Fund
3. OSK-UOB Emerging Markets Bond Fund

I'm still researching & analyzing which developed market equity fund might be the most appropriate to add in my portfolio.

Hereby, i hope to gain more suggestions and ur recommendation^^
Right now, i'm aiming those undervalued & potential fund coz as you guys always said "buy low sell high"^^

This post has been edited by Macrusin: Aug 24 2012, 12:58 AM

Whoa.. a professional property flipper
I'm still toe-in/toe-out in properties - just sold my 1st investment property (homes sold 2x liao ), was for rental but since someone is offering to pay me more NOW vs X years accumulated rental+cap appreciation+equity built-up in mortgage, why not Found i dislike landlording - i'm a lazy baka.
Where/when can i pick your brains (Bah Kut Teh / Subway enticement to loosen your tongue) on flipping properties ?

Thanks for the info on SembCorp & CerebosPac - i was wondering what the heck was happening to CerebosPac recently spiking like mad. Dang - why lar, 2 out of 4 or 5 SGX targets gets taken over (chased up already)...

Looks like U & i share similar thinking in terms of hedging our bets due to crazy QEs by central bankers. I hope Pink and the rest of the gang that are hoarding their ammo don't keep their ammo dry too long IF the lelong doesn't happen soon.

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Added on August 24, 2012, 1:30 amOoo... free food.. when when? (yeah yeah, i'm a cheap bast*rd - free food wor)

Technically, 2007 & 2010 version has more rows and columns, thus less limitations. In addition, XLSX (native SAVE file type of Excel 2007 & 2010) is a compressed file by itself, thus much smaller than XLS.

Yes yes, it's a bloody pain to get used to when moving from Excel 2003 - imagine a power user reduced to googling basic functions and menus (as in where the heck to access them).

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Added on August 24, 2012, 1:43 amer.. SWITCHING? in short, total value (ie. value SWITCHed OUT from Fund A) becomes total cost of Fund B.
I've 1 worksheet for HELD + 1 for SWITCHED/SOLD (ie. EXITed transaction)

Thus, in when i SWITCH:
a. From SWITCHed Out in HELD worksheet
minus the units and avged cost (if partially SWITCHed out)
or
delete row (if whole transaction was SWITCHed out)

b. In SWITCHED/SOLD worksheet
Capture date of buy transaction,
costs of units (units * average cost of that transaction, keeping in mind, i re-distribute dividend reinvested units to all buy transactions still held )
VS
date of SWITCH/SOLD,
$ gotten for it (the SWITCHed out value)

c. to SWITCHed In in HELD worksheet
new row with date of purchase, total cost & units

er.. i think easier to see screenshots eg BUT i'm currently on my spare PC in my bedroom (insomnia due to over eating heheh), no access to my files. Will snapshot and add here tomorrow.

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Aug 24 2012, 01:46 AM

Similar to what I did previously, redemption value of Switch-Out fund becomes the cost of Switch-In fund. But I find that such way did not aid comparison between performance of different funds (the Switch-In fund will have a lower cost of purchase, cos zero SC, it starts with a "tongkat" ).

So what I did was, ALL SCs are taken as Transaction Costs which are treated as something like, "Portfolio Overheads", all funds are recorded at net purchase price (invested amount less SC). Performance of individual funds are compared on basis of current NAV vs average purchased NAV without SC.

What u guys think?

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Added on August 24, 2012, 8:04 amkecil meow replying...

Seems that many are buying AMB Dividend Trust Fund
Do u know that, Hwang Investment Management is the external manager for this fund?
And that Hwang Select Dividend Fund actually performed better than AMB Dividend Fund?
I believe FSM recommended the AMB fund only because it has a longer track record

IMHO, it is not that straightforward to pick a good developed market equity fund, as it is harder to outperform consistently with developed market equity than with emerging/Asia Ex-Japan ones. Yesterday I briefly browsed thru FSM Singapore, even their best developed market equity fund could not deliver half the returns of Kenanga Growth Fund.

Just pick one that u like its investment mandate. At least its your choice, kalau salah pun hanya boleh salahkan sendiri.

My recommendations:

Alliance Global Equities
- 1/3 in developed markets, managed passively; 2/3 in Asian markets, actively managed
- strong performer
- but be careful of overexposure to Asian markets in your portfolio should u pick this fund

OSK-UOB Global Equity
- relatively low volatility as it focuses on dividend stocks
- as at 31 July its exposure is roughly 77% developed markets, balance in Asia/emerging markets

Eastspring Investments Global Leaders
- seeks out undervalued stocks that are (or have potential to be) their industry leaders
- about 80% in developed markets, overweight US (about 40%+) and Japan

Pacific Global Stars
- from what I read in its prospectus, its approach is more technical than fundamental (seeks stocks that have potential to outperform the market)
- weighting between developed markets and Asian markets is close to 50/50, so be careful of overexposure to Asian markets

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Added on August 24, 2012, 8:08 amWong Seafood, just to add, "Portfolio Transaction Costs" will affect porfolio performance evaluation, but will not affect individual fund performance evaluation.

This post has been edited by Pink Spider: Aug 24 2012, 08:08 AM

Ah.. cool, U got my gibberish without screenshots

Well, in my situation, i usually (99.99%) SWITCH only between Equity <--> Bond funds, to either lock-in some profits into bond funds OR enter into equity market. Thus the SC "paid" by the first time Equity fund in (loaded units) is not comparable to Bond fund SC
ie. the 3% or 5.5% (or my actual cost of 1.5%+ or 2.75%+) for Equity funds VS 0.25% Bond Funds doesn't my tracking much as Equities' returns <> Bonds' returns.

I guess one will have COMPARATIVE problems when U often SWITCH between Equity to Equity or Bond to Bond funds only.
ie. SWITCHing between same class causes comparison issues during one's review of transactional / fund performances if the 2nd Fund "does not pay SC" as the 1st Fund paid SC and is loaded already.

If i were to accumulate all SCs as some sort of overhead - how to absorb to each transaction and at what basis? especially when Equities' and Bonds' SC varies wildly.
If i don't absorb these overheads, how to calculate CAGR as close as possible? only simple calc & averaging can be done - unless there are some other methods of calculation lar (pls share share - maths baka here).

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Aug 24 2012, 08:18 AM

I'm a P lesen akauntan, remember?

1 solution I see to this is...

Fund performance evaluation
- Current NAV to Average Purchased NAV comparison (SCs excluded)
- CAGR for individual fund on NAV-to-NAV basis

Portfolio performance evaluation
- Cash flows (SCs will come in here) vs Current Portfolio Value comparison
- CAGR for portfolio would be based on actual cash invested analysis

What I lack now is time data to calculate CAGR

Wah...
Personally i just track my personal investments' CAGR (ie. costs-to-value), not the funds' performance NAV-to-NAV, coz NAV-to-NAV tracked & published by fund houses mar

Nav to nav performance published is not YOUR nav to nav returns

it is - if i take a specific transaction and date, then map to fund house's data & get FROM.. TO.. CAGR
anyhow, i'd still factor in total costs per transaction, rather than have another set of tracking for cost-value, in my case - lazy lar, too many worksheets liao

Yea, we too anal sometimes

Analysing n doing excel sheets is fun, SOMETIMES

it's bloody fun when U see your net worth AND investable assets grow at x.xx% pm
And during yearly reviews.. and in 3 to 5years time, go.. whoa... i didn't know something that simple can have such impact...

Yes yes, i'm a gamer at heart - "hitting the next level" and seeing the "stats grow" monthly, quarterly, yearly, etc. (RPG gaming & levelling up anyone?) is addictive and an incentive for me to keep "plugging along"

Here shd be not allowed any advertisement related post. U need move to another section. thks

Yea, it keeps us going, like, "hey this is REALLY better than FD/EPF!!!"

*back to reality, starting work*

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Added on August 24, 2012, 10:16 amWow the magic of Excel punya XIRR function...no need to design long and complicated formula...thanks Wong Seafood

Wait, will withdrawals/switching outs mess up the XIRR function?

This post has been edited by Pink Spider: Aug 24 2012, 10:20 AM

er.. withrawals/switching outs doesnt mess (much) from mine coz i've a separate "SOLD/SWITCHED OUT" worksheet to capture realized gains/losses
VS
held & paper gains/losses
- bad habit carried forward from my stock trading days (ie. paper vs realized)

Yea I know, switchings will not affect the portfolio returns (because no cash movements involved), but it will affect returns of individual funds.

Just tested, XIRR function will take care of outflows too.
Tonight will get my transaction data from FSM to do a new worksheet. 3 years' worth of data to churn.

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Added on August 24, 2012, 1:30 am
Ooo... free food.. when when? (yeah yeah, i'm a cheap bast*rd - free food wor)

Technically, 2007 & 2010 version has more rows and columns, thus less limitations. In addition, XLSX (native SAVE file type of Excel 2007 & 2010) is a compressed file by itself, thus much smaller than XLS.

Yes yes, it's a bloody pain to get used to when moving from Excel 2003 - imagine a power user reduced to googling basic functions and menus (as in where the heck to access them).

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Added on August 24, 2012, 1:43 am


Sifu... anytime la. When you are free.. but not ugrent la because my investment timeframe just 2 yrs, so without XIRR still ok still. Also, havent switch or sell out before yet..

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Added on August 24, 2012, 3:58 pmWah.. you also another sifu la. So cleaver on XIRR and learn it in a short time!

This post has been edited by Kaka23: Aug 24 2012, 03:58 PM

Senang je...what I did was, I create a simple case study and used the XIRR function. Then, I test the figure generated by XIRR by doing a more manual calculation of IRR. Both methods produced the same figure.

Wong, we do include the subsequent distributions amount into the XIRR calculations right? Those are considered the 'different time of investment' too, I suppose?