Click baiting?

half true
lol

I think most people misunderstood my question. But I thought I was pretty clear when I used Islam as an example. I was not just talking about Islam per say.
I was not just talking about the Jesus that Muslims believes per say. I was also talking about the Jesus that Mormons, Jehovoh Witness, Hinduism even so called "Christian" churches believes.

So just a question. How do you even know that the Jesus that you believe in is real. How certain are you that when you "die", you will actually go into sleep until you are "called" up by God. How certain are you.

After all, from Bible Study that I had in the past, there is one verse that says that Salvation is almost impossible

"With men it is impossible, but not with God"

So what makes you so confident that you are saved just because you made one sinner's prayer before?

Because for most Christians, when they believe. Life still goes on. It's like "hey I make a confession". Then maybe they go to church for a short while but then they stop but they believe that they will go to heaven just because they once make a confession. But then there is nothing different from them compared to the non Christians. They cursed, they drink etc. So how come they are still confident if they die, they will be going to heaven. Or this confidence is just syok sendiri. That's all.

And the other thing. What makes you think that your bible is the word of God. After all, there are so many different versions. And those versions have differences as even many scholars will say. So how can you tell others that the bible that you are using is perfect when there are so many differences in the different versions.

Looking for a discussion.


This post has been edited by BrookLes: Feb 9 2023, 03:26 PM

So if someone raped your kid,but he got hungry and homeless.

You will still shelter him in your kid's room.

I believe the 'Jesus' i know is true and real because i take time to study scriptures and ascertain for myself, at the same time believing that God will help me.
i believe that God will not judge me for trying but He will judge me for being lazy and dead spiritually.
So ask me anything specifically about Jesus and i will try to answer.


That, according to scriptures is 'dead faith'. i believe dead faith is what it is dead, and it will not result in life.
Faith requires obedience. Yes, we will go wrong and sin. But we will still try to be discipline according to God's will.

This is the thing. There are not many VERSIONS. But there are many translations. Translations are, translations.
They are not perfect in the minute non fundamental details. However, in the essentials of the faith, they are generally consistent.
So if i had to study a subject, i will try to go back to the original languages that the original texts were written in and study those.
No English or any language will perfectly translate the Hebrew language. There is no possibility for word for word translation.

Ok fair enough. So can I say that more then 90% of the Christians out there are probably worshipping the false version since they do not even know about the Jesus they proclaimed?

Secondly, so you think salvation is something that is on going rather then the instant you believed?

Thirdly, so you cannot point towards a bible and say it's god's word then? Or god's word can be imperfect.
Your god is not capable of translating the Bible from Hebrew to English in a perfect manner then. You know in a language that people can actually understand. Not in an ancient Greek where even the Greeks themselves probably will find it difficult to understand.

Why would god only hide his truths in a language that 99% of the people cannot understand. So this god expects us to believe him when he does that?

I cannot judge the 90% that you mention. Only God knows them. I can only say that most will just follow what is taught to them. And often not checking the bible themselves.

2nd: i believe it is ongoing process. That's why Paul warns us of faith shipwreck and it being a long distance race. Discipleship is a life process.

3rd: As i said, we are reading translations and for most fundamentals, they are consistent.
God gave His message in Hebrew. The Jews understand it. We can also learn.
The most important thing is that God demonstrated everything He mentioned in His word in the Messiah named Jesus.
All the hundreds of prophecies.

He used Israel, the smallest and insignificant nation at the time, to demonstrate His love, power and will.
So He used their language to deliver His message. The message of salvation through His Messiah. This message is the same in all the notable translations.

1st. So you are implying that someone believing in the wrong jesus can be saved. So I guess Muslims, Jehovah Witness, Mormons, Free Masons and Hindus cannot be judged then. And there is no need to tell them about Jesus since they already believe in jesus.
2nd. So Jesus was lying then when He said whoever believed will have eternal live.
3r.d. You have not answered my question then. So is all of the bibles that are imperfect considered god's word then.
Are you sure the message is the same in all translations? For example one translation talks about salvation being instant while the other transactions talk about salvation being an ongoing process like you said. Are you 100% sure that the message is the same in all translations?

And I would like to add something. Why should I trust the bible more then any other religious text then if it's not 100% perfect.
Even Muslims claim that their text is 100% accurate.

You can say that all of the prophecies are fulfilled. But then you cannot say that the Bible is 100% accurate? And a Greek or Hebrew scholar is required in order to tell me the truth? How can I trust this Greek scholar then that has no ulterior motives. Didn't the Bible mentioned before that the Heart is deceitful above all things? So why would I trust a Greek scholar to provide me the Truth then. Because if as you say the Truth is contained in the Greek text, then I have to rely on a Greek scholar to tell me the truth right?

And you still have not answered some of my harder questions.

So the god you believe in did not provide his bible in a way that the public can understand then. Yes or No?

If god wanted the people to know just the fundamentals, why would he provide a bible to do that? Isn't it a waste of time for people to read the bible just to know fundamentals that can be described in a few pages? I would think God wanted the people to know more then just the fundamentals that is why he provided the Bible dun you think? Maybe something slightly "deeper" then the fundamentals?

ok I understand where you are coming from when you are saying translations. So in other words, god did not provide his truth in a language that people can understand then but they have to learn Greek and Hebrew in order to truly read god's word. Is that where you are coming from as well?

This post has been edited by BrookLes: Feb 9 2023, 04:27 PM

1st Read carefully. I cannot judge any of them God does that. You said 90% of CHRSITIANS were worshipping the false version. i was replying to this. And i do not think 90% are worshipping the wrong version!
So what if they think Jesus has blue eyes? Will that bring them to hell? I dont know.

2nd. No. Jesus was not lying. Faith is an ongoing process. You can turn your back on Jesus too. You cannot just take ONE verse and interpret anything.

3rd. All the bibles are imperfect TRANSLATIONS. Yes. I am sure the message of the Messiah is same in most known translations.



You seem to make your mind about what you think you know.
Show me the passages on instant salvation. And i will show you passages about faithful obedience to God.

It's ok.
Case proven.

And aren't you supposed to be the "Christian"?

Neither it is right to allow the rapist to continue what he is doing, wouldn't right on his part wouldn't it?

He would be sinning against God to do that.

So how do you balance out? You can bring the person elsewhere to a proper organization to be counselled and fed.

It is perfect in it's original texts. Which is something you do not seem to comprehend.
Not as if there is only ONE scholar to teach you? The same can be said of the ENGLISH, MALAY, CHINESE Scholars who teaches another person. How can that person trust them?

He has provided in the way He deems fit and right. I understand His message translated in English. And the Chinese understands the message in Chinese.
It may not in the way YOU want it. But it works.

There are lots of depth in the fundamentals. Who told you in your presumption that it can be described in a few pages?
Presumptous, are you not?
Again. The Jews understood it. We understand it in the English transmitted message. The world understands it in their respective languages. Waht's wrong with that?

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Feb 9 2023, 04:38 PM

And what are going with your multitude of Presumptions?

The top portion classic questions that will ultimately lead to Calvinism vs Arminian.

I am not talking from the rapist point of view but from the "Christian" who is supposed to be kind to the rapist.
But you still do not get my point.

No point in further discussions at this point but I will just entertain you by replying to your latest reply to me.
I will let the public judge for themselves at this point.

Good.
Because their presumptions are getting tiresome.

The way you answer my queries, I wonder if an actual unbeliever ask you those questions, what will their conclusion going to be? That Christianity is an unreasonable religion?

And I already answered your part on "perfect in the original text"? Your god is incapable of producing the Truth in the form that most people can understand? Why should people believe in your god then?

At least if there is a perfect form in English and Chinese or in any common language, I do not need a third party to interpret the language for me. So now I am not supposed to trust my own understanding of English or any other languages that I have spoken from? Then how about let's extend it. I cannot trust my thoughts as well since my thoughts were influenced by my education? So how far do you want to do?

And you still have not answered my question then. How can I trust the god that you believe in if He cannot provide His text in a form that most people can understand. See after all these while, you still cannot answer my question. So why continues?

Not a few pages. How about a few hundred pages. See you are already avoiding the main gist towards what I am saying. You are obviously defensive and not worthy of my time anymore

You keep talking about the Jews. When right now it's not about the Jews. See. You are even confused yourself. So why should I trust you in anything.

Point proven.

Like I said. Let the public judge for themselves.


My advice from you. Take your "Christian" blinkers off and see how ridiculous you sound all these while.
Of course. Most Malaysian "Christians" would probably be on your side. They do not even know who their real Christ is.

This post has been edited by BrookLes: Feb 9 2023, 05:54 PM

Thought you were going to leave it at that.
Your presumptions is tiresome.
Not to mention silly.
If the scriptures did not work, how come the bible is the best seller in history? Not to mention the number of believers whose lives are changed by it.
Presumptuous.
End of. Checking out.

See. You have proven my point again.

I guess you mean the Greek and the Hebrew is the best seller in history right the way you defend them.

Same goes to you as well. If I were making presumptions. How come you cannot handle them properly? But then you are going to assume you did that right?

Sure. They are being changed by the bible even though it's not god's word. Or unless you are implying god's word is not perfect. If it was all about morality, why do you even need the Bible? Any religious text would do right?

You see, the imperfect versions of the bible are no different then other religious text. I can also claim that the other religious text change people as well. So what is your point?

And you are already going away from the main discussion. I thought the discussion was always about whether The English versions of the bible is the word of God given that each version is different from each other. Not on whether the truth is found in Christianity or not. You cannot even be consistent and you want people to trust you.

BTW, I thought your standard of integrity should be higher then mine. Since you claim to be a "Christian"? But looking at your replies, it does not seem that way. I wonder why?

And why am I being presumptive when I am questioning from an outsider point of view

But like I said. Let the public judge for themselves.

This post has been edited by BrookLes: Feb 9 2023, 06:37 PM