Risk free investment vehicle offered by Singapore Government.

For reference :

https://www.mas.gov.sg/bonds-and-bills/auct...suance-calendar

https://www.ilovessb.com/


HWZ SSB thread:

https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/...006693/page-501

HWZ T-bills thread:

https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/...769601/page-321

This post has been edited by ikanbilis: Dec 8 2022, 03:36 PM

Not sure if I calculates it correctly....
For a 10yrs holding period.... @2.x%pa....

I would prefer to put in kwsp @abt 5.5%pa...
That is a plus of abt 3%pa.....
I think SGD cannot appreciates at a 3%pa over MYR.
What do you think?

Epf is retirement fund that most people cannot touch until 55 years old. SSB is more like FD which can withdraw every month. Singapore bank pays very little interests in comparison.

Epf may give a better rate but i don't put all my money in one place. SSB is part of my diversification portfolio on top of my epf and asnb savings.

By the way SSB has a limit of SGD200k per person.

This post has been edited by ikanbilis: Jun 1 2022, 07:53 PM

20 years ago many think ringgit wont be breaching 3.xx to a Sing dollar, 4.xx to a US dollar

What does that tell? Is savings with KWSP really help the people to have a better retirement years???

I agree with u
Ringgit is a depreciating asset

3% pa variance....
@10 yrs = 30%
Now is 3.1 MYR to sgd
30% = 4.0 MYR to sgd in 10 yrs??
🤔🤔

Is savings with KWSP really help the people to have a better retirement years???
🤔🤔Unless you want to retired in sg.
Being abt to hv abt 5.5-6%pa compounded... Much better than those that aimed at riskier asset or capital protected vehicle?? 🤔🤔

This post has been edited by yklooi: Jun 1 2022, 08:40 PM

They are different investment instruments. SSB is a bond backed by Spore govt rate of default almost zero guaranteed capital. Also when look at percentage also factor in the currency. Can have high rate but inflation MYR become small. I share before Msia bank FD I put after mature come out the interest no power as things are so expensive.

For KWSP, Spore also got equivalent CPF OA at 2.5 and SA at 4 and a whole lot of CPF life annuity to get monthly payment until you die.

As for 1 SGD to 4 MYR in 10 years don't say cannot happen. During my times 1 SGD to 2 MYR I thought that is crazy cannot go higher already and now year 2022 it breach 3 MYR !

This post has been edited by sgh: Jun 1 2022, 11:29 PM

Very hot indeed can also try bank FD for 12 months all going up. CIMB SG FD now is 1.6,1.68% not bad

I think I am beginning to see what you tried to imply.
Even if MYR can goes up to 4 to a sgd in 10 yrs,... Not much untung....
Even if thinking this sdg bond can be easily withdrawn unlike kwsp,... Then no untung if want to diversify in the 1st place.
Those nearer to age 50, if put in kwsp,... At age 50 can do withdrawal... Depends on the amount placed in (used as a discussion comparison above)... The amount withdrawn can be 30% or 100% of the amount placed in.

Is that what you tried to imply?

Is there any USD denominated bond that are on par (risk rating n minimum amount) as this sdg bond that which we can access?
If for diversification and to hv better forex appreciation in 10 yrs.... USD better or sgd better?

This post has been edited by T231H: Jun 2 2022, 12:57 AM

20 years ago SGD was 2.20 to MYR. Now it's 3.20

CAGR of 1.89%.

i am considering to buy some from FSM SG.

Still waiting.

https://secure.fundsupermart.com/fsm/article/view/

This post has been edited by Jitty: Jun 2 2022, 11:03 AM

Good discussions in the above, bros,... For myself,...

1) I put into SSB when I see interest rates are rising, that's when the SSB interest rates will be higher.

2) SSB is a parking facility till interest rates start to turn, and I will liquidate my SSB, to buy REITs, tech stocks and whatever else.

3) Emm,... when I reached my withdrawal age, I MIGHT NOT withdraw everything from EPF to be pumped into SSB. But,.. let's imagine I am able to withdraw my EPF this year, I would have withdrawn half and converted into the SGD at the beginning of this year after I saw MAS did a tightening in end-2021.

4) And finally,... I would buy into Astrea bonds denominated in the SGD and in the USD tho' the risk rating is higher. I would also buy into Astrea bonds when interest rates are rising, like today.

For your infos,... Astrea 7 has been launched and was recently floated in the exchange last week. They are available in the exchange, under the following codes :-

a) V7AB : 4.125% pa denominated in the SGD.
b) V7BB : 6.00% pa, denominated in the USD.

But, be careful,... when interest rates rise further, the bond price (in the secondary mkt) may fall. Then you'll have to hold till maturity if you wish to get back your par values. This is a major risk. Pls read the documents if need to know of other risks.

Yeah KWSP is way better if u have exceeded 1 mil in it.... after 1 mil u can withdraw any amount online anytime...

And also those above 50 yrs.... Can take out 1/3...depending on the amount inside,... It could also mean 100% of what had been in that SSB too.
The amount that can be withdrawn for those that exceeded 1 mil may not be enough equivalent to the amount in SSB, for emergency cash out use.

This post has been edited by MUM: Jun 3 2022, 03:09 PM

Msia EPF system differs from Spore CPF. This explain why for Msian it is easier to lay hands on those funds unlike us. Furthermore 50 years already can touch whereas for us it is at age 55 make sure fulfill X dollars (this year is 192,000) go into some Retirement Account to earn interest to be put into CPF Life annuity plan at age 65 onwards to draw a monthly allowance from that plan. After deduct the 192,000 any remaining then can take out. Then the monthly allowance start at age 65 onwards. What if you got short life?

So Spore expect their citizen live super long life and hence come out with this CPF Life annuity scheme which means to lay hands on those funds you better live long life. I dunno if this is good but for me come on I prefer Msia EPF to lay hands early at age 50 instead. Work like dog whole life must wait until age 65 and furthermore those is monthly allowance not lump sum withdrawal also. Spore smart let the same batch of old ppl feed each other. Those short life rugi and subsidize those live long life in that annuity plan.

curios why short life will rugi? your next of kin cannot inherit the remaining balance in CPF Life annuity plan ?

CPF Life annuity plan actually bear interest from what I was told. So when you pass away, your nominees get back your "capital" put in. The interest earned is in the big pool to fund other surviving member monthly payout. This lead me to think the monthly payout we get is our capital+interest although it is not stated explicitly in the website

Don't under-estimate that interest portion, 192K is only for this year and it will increase every year. Imagine this 192K put into the CPF Life annuity with compounding interest that amount is not small. And since it is a big common pool of all ppl of same batch that is a lot of monies! This scheme is very good for government as they just administer the scheme they no need to cough out govt monies to feed this group of old ppl. Basically each one is supporting each other. But there can be a freak (small most likely) scenario is same batch of ppl majority live super long over age 90 then the common pool of monies may have problem continue to pay monthly perhaps even reducing the payout or maybe govt need pump in monies.

Above is what I read in the other Spore forum so please don't treat it as the truth. But the points flagged make sense. A big pool of monies cannot be sit there just to distribute monthly payout it has to be invested to grow the pool logical?

Not sure need to open a new topic but since this is about Singapore Savings Bond, a close relative to this is called Spore T-bill. How it works is below

1. Every 2 weeks Spore govt issue a new/reopen T-bill of 6 months maturity
2. Retail investors can participate by applying. During apply there is competitive and non-competitive bids. Why this work is becuz the 'interest' (they call cutoff yield) of the T-bill is not known in advance. It will only be known once the auction has taken place. The auction involve some primary dealer banks bidding.
3. Once the auction results is out, up to 40% of the T-bill size is first given to ppl on non-competitive bids. If over then pro-rated. The remaining 60% will be alloted to those who place competitive bids. The upcoming 09 Jun 2022 size is 4.1 billion of which 1.64 billion will be for non-competitive bids to get FIRST before the rest is alloted to the competitive bids for those with lowest to the cutoff yield onwards. Compared to SSB latest of only 350 million this T-bill size is so much larger so chance of not getting is lower?

E.g Auction result come out is 1%. Minimum invest is 1000. So you get $10/2 = $5 since it is for 6months. You then hold the T-bill in your CDP until 6 months later mature return you back your $1000. The $5 is your discount for the T-bill but I think of it as upfront interest like Maybank FD. Put get interest already a few days later

Pro and con
1. Cannot redeem each month like SSB. You can sell in secondary market but may lose capital
2. No need pay $2 for apply like SSB. I test using POSB,DBS mobile app
3. You get your "interest" upon know auction results few days later. That is the discount you get actually
4. No 200k SSB limit but per auction limit at 1 million

The last 26 May 2022 auction result is 1.80% for 6 months.

Yup this is the closest relative to SSB.

But i still prefer the flexibility of the SSB. Meaning i can keep the SSB for few years with an acceptable interest rate, or i can redeem it next month when an investment opportunity arise.

This post has been edited by ikanbilis: Jun 6 2022, 05:17 PM

Problem with SSB is over subscribed you cannot get full allotment. For T-bill the amount size are much bigger so chance to get full allotment higher but it is only 6 months so yes not really for long term which SSB provide and the flexibility to withdraw every month if needed. Just sharing the alternatives.

10-year average return for Singapore Savings Bonds rewrites record high at 3.47%

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/s...ecember-3036231

SINGAPORE: Returns on the Singapore Savings Bonds hit record highs for the second straight month, with the latest December issue offering a 10-year average return rate of 3.47 per cent.

The first-year interest rate of 3.26 per cent is also the highest ever, beating the record set in the previous issue, according to information from the Monetary Authority of Singapore released on Tuesday (Nov 1) afternoon.


The Singapore Savings Bonds are a type of Singapore Government Securities (SGS), meaning they are issued and fully backed by the Singapore Government.

They were first rolled out in 2015 to provide retail investors with a flexible and risk-free investment option. About 120,000 individuals hold more than S$5.7 billion worth of savings bonds as at the start of 2022.

New tranches of the Singapore Savings Bonds are released at the start of each month, with fixed interest rates that step up for each year they are held and locked in for 10 years.

The interest rates of each issuance are based on the average SGS yields in the month before applications open. These yields have been on an uptrend like all other major economies’ bond yields, as global central banks raise interest rates.

The previous record highs for returns were set last month when the 10-year average return hit 3.21 per cent and the first-year interest rate touched 3.08 per cent. That issue received applications worth S$2.2 billion, outstripping the S$900 million worth of bonds issued.

You mentioned T bill 26 May was 1.8%.

Most recent T bill 27 Oct already 4.19%!

Interest rate is fast rising! Glad i subscribed the 4.19% T bill. Planning to subscribe the next T bill 10 Nov auction.

This post has been edited by ikanbilis: Nov 3 2022, 01:13 PM

Oh didn't know there's an SSB thread here. Next time will post all SSB stuffs over here.

It would be nice if you can change title to T-bills and SSB rather than just SSB so we can discuss both products here rather than just SSB.

This post has been edited by TOS: Nov 3 2022, 01:04 PM

how a person in MY buys SSB ...

ikanbilis Make sure you add these 2 HWZ threads to your first post so that prospective SSB and T-bill applicants can access the materials easily.

HWZ SSB thread: https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/...006693/page-501

HWZ T-bills thread: https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/...769601/page-321

You need to open a CDP account in Singapore first, which requires you to have the following documents:

1. Malaysia NRIC/passport

2. Work Pass/Student Pass

3. Mailing and residential address in Singapore, proven by an MAS-license bank statement (usually DBS, UOB or OCBC) or IRAS tax assessment document

Source: https://www.sgx.com/securities/retail-inves...urities-account

You may submit your application here: https://investors.sgx.com/cdp-account-openi...line-form-intro

Sporeans and PR can directly sign up using MyInfo.

--------------------

After opening a CDP account, you need to activate Direct-Crediting Service to receive coupon/interest payments, which requires you to have at least one of the following SGD bank accounts:

Citibank
DBS/POSB
HSBC
Maybank
OCBC
Standard Chartered Bank
UOB

Source: https://www.sgx.com/securities/retail-investor/cdp-faqs

Thanks for the reply.
But i don't have 2 and 3 ....
which is kinda sucks.

Ok, let me suggest you some possible solutions.

1. On pass, all student passes and any of the following work passes will work: https://www.mom.gov.sg/passes-and-permits

It does not matter if you just stay for 1-2 months for a short-term training/student exchange etc., as long as it's under the above pass, it's accepted.

The key thing here is the FIN number which you need to fill up your CDP application form. And only "passes" will give you the FIN number.

Once the pass expires, you can just update CDP with your Malaysian TIN number (your MY income tax number) using the "Update Account Particulars" form here: https://www.sgx.com/securities/retail-investor/cdp-forms and tell CDP to cancel your earlier FIN number. I can share more details if necessary. You get to keep your CDP account after the pass expires.

-----------------------------

2. On address, if you have relative in Singapore and is in a study exchange/short-term work training programme etc., you may use your relative's SG address to open your SG bank account first, then use the same address to apply for CDP account since the bank statements will show an SG address on it.

An SG address is also important for opening a DBS/UOB/OCBC SG bank account which are the only means of purchasing SSB/T-bills for a retail investor.

Try looking for friends/relatives you can trust and obtain their approval to use their address. Then, get the SG company/university/school to validate the residential address in a formal letter which can then be used as proof to open DBS/UOB/OCBC bank account. Once bank account is opened and with your pass, you are 100% guaranteed of successful CDP account opening, even if the pass is invalid or cancelled in the midst of CDP account opening (since as stated in 1. above, you can always change the tax status as needed).

If you are working, try hard to look for jobs in SG. If you are a student, never give up any chance of a student exchange or further studies in a Singapore university. Good luck.

This post has been edited by TOS: Nov 3 2022, 05:51 PM

It's still early even though it's a little less than 1 week away. Need to monitor US 6-month yield movements as always.

I do see some on HWZ claiming to bid at 4.5 to 4.6% p.a using their CPF OA monies.

I shall wait for next Tuesday's 4-week and 12-week MAS bill auction results to make the final decision.

...tq bro,... problem is,... after it has matured, what do we do with the funds returned to us ? Perhaps too late to go into REITs and stocks,... and by then, interest rates could have pivotted. Then we're stuck with a lot of money in-hand,...

You can... reinvest those funds into new issues of T-bills...and wait for the next downturn...

They call it "laddering". The most conservative bond investment strategy.

------------------------------

I have been looking at short-term deposit solutions to solve the "6-month-too-long" issue.

I presume you are in SG most of the time? If so, you can open as many SG FD accounts as you like with the banks found via this tool: https://sgfd.neocities.org/

And last time mentioned about MAS Bill via institutions, that's one avenue to consider too.

Recently, I am looking at USD FD deposits. DBS/UOB has USD FD deposits for short tenures of 1-3 months. The minimum deposit is 5k USD (UOB) and 5k SGD (DBS). You can use IBKR-DBS Remit to move money in and out in USD and other currencies. But you may only do so once a month due to IBKR's monthly withdrawal limit.

There is another thing you can consider trying: US Corporate Bonds with min 2k USD, subsequently 1k USD-interval denomination.

Pick the AAA/super strong ones like AAPL, MSFT and JNJ. Choose maturity 1-2 months away. Only 1-2 USD commissions per trade. Check the coupons though. Make sure they are comparable with prevailing rates.

I have checked their reactions during crises. Still some very small spikes, but good enough substitutes, if you are fine with it.



This is one example:

https://bondfacts.finra.org/AAPL4562449?

You can see from this link that the bid/ask spread has widen this year, resulting in larger difference in daily yields: https://finra-markets.morningstar.com/BondC...cusip=037833DE7

You may calculate the dirty price here, which included the accued interests: https://www.bondsupermart.com/bsm/bond-fact...et/US037833DE71

And there's some chance of little capital gain if you bid a low enough price: https://finra-markets.morningstar.com/BondC...=11%2F04%2F2022 (arrange by yield descending from the largest to the smallest)



This post has been edited by TOS: Nov 7 2022, 10:16 AM

I will do the ladder strategy for the T-bill as well. Spread my T-bills into 13 tranches so that my ladder would complete by 2 May 2023.

You are very rich... That's 13k SGD in total at the minimum...

Please dont say that. There are a lot of rich sifus in lowyat. Im only ikan bilis.

#usernamecheckout

Tq for all your replies, bro,... Yes, I'm already into USD FDs with DBS. But,... how do you buy the US Corporate Bonds ?

Let's continue our discussion here: https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...#entry105780117

For Eurodollar deposits like USD FDs in non-Fed regulated entities, counterparty risk is of paramount importance because the deposits are not insured. So you entirely dependent and count on the bank to refund you the money at the end of the deposit tenure.

Obviously you are unlikely to deposit USD FDs at Credit Suisse at the moment unless they offer you higher-than-market USD FD rates to factor in counterparty risk.

So far DBS is financially sound enough for us to deposit USD without the need for insurance. But uhm, prudent monitoring is still needed.

This post has been edited by TOS: Nov 7 2022, 09:16 PM

Reminder : Tomorrow would be the last day to apply for BS22122Z T-bill.

After trying out NC for the last issue, i am bidding for comp for the first time. I am bidding for 4.25% yield, a bit on the low side to ensure higher chance of getting it.

Why didn't you wait until today's MAS Bill auction results out and check their bids first?

I just check the US 6 month treasury bill rate then just hentam one figure i think is nice.

https://ycharts.com/indicators/6_month_treasury_bill_rate

This post has been edited by ikanbilis: Nov 8 2022, 10:40 AM

Seriously, that's how you bid for something in an auction? ...

Ok lah, but I think 4.4% looks more reasonable. 20bp behind current yield, similar to past issue. We will see today's results soon.

Yes i also think most probably 4.4% will also get it. I just want to bid lower.

4-week 3.8% cut-off, 12-week 4.6% cut-off.

It is interesting to note 12-week median is 4.33% p.a. while average is 3.85%. So 50% of institutions bid between 4.33% and 4.6% for a 3-month bill.

Source:

4-week: https://www.mas.gov.sg/bonds-and-bills/auct...date=2022-11-11

12-week: https://www.mas.gov.sg/bonds-and-bills/auct...date=2022-11-11

Tomorrow gonna bid 4.7%!

bros,... if you are bidding for 4.4%, why not you buy : FPTREA 4.49%270916XB# ?

The above is now giving out more than 4.49% yield since the price is below the par value of $1.00 now.

With the Feds soon to pivot,... or least pause,... the price won't drop much anymore.

One is issued by Sg Gov another by private company. If both about same yield which one would you choose?

ikanbilis You may want to put ILoveSSB's link on the first page of the thread for ease of reference.

https://www.ilovessb.com/

I think this is an important "service" for SSB subscribers.

If truly same yield, then obviously, the SG Govt's one.

But I would not under-rate Frasers' credit rating here. And secondly, Frasers offers a slightly higher effective rate now since the bond price is below $1.00,...

The Frasers Green Bond is 'continuous' for the next few years and will not leave me exposed with money in my hands after the next 6 mths, unlike the T-Bill which will return my money in 6-mths time.

It all depends on individual risk appetite. When i was younger, i have no problem investing 80% of my assets in shares, futures, unit trust and private bonds.

For my age now i am so risk averse that i would only invest in government bonds, FDs and ASNB fixed price fund.

Just be cautious of any private bonds. For reading pleasure only

https://www.dividendtitan.com/frasers-prope...-buying-at-4-49

https://www.dividendtitan.com/frasers-property-green-bonds/



This post has been edited by ikanbilis: Nov 8 2022, 03:21 PM

Yes,... to diversify your risks among bonds, you can actually buy into a bond fund. Bond funds was one of my first instruments when I first started investing,....

Very optimistic even higher than MAS t-bill 4.6%. I will bid lower maybe 4.5%

lol still reasonable.

I was looking at 3 month SG in comparison with 3 month US rates. The cut-off for SG side was 4.4, but US only side only 4.2%, so I suspect the SG rates may be better than US side.

That would also possibly mean SGD may not appreciate that strongly against USD in near term or may have mild depreciation since the SG rates are higher than US rates.

No bro,..................

Look at the USDSGD Chart in Yahoo Finance,............... the SGD has been APPRECIATING vs the USD. The SGD is getting stronger and stronger in the past few days. The SGD might end up as the best performing currency in the near term,...

I ain't a chartist. You can consult dwRK for chart matters.

But I am aware of a macroeconomic principle known as "interest rate parity". There are others like PPP (purchasing power parity) and IFE (international fisher effect) but IRP has been shown to be true empirically, allowing for some trading costs and other opportunity costs.

http://mays.tamu.edu/center-for-internatio...Chapter-008.pdf



You can check the USD/SGD forward rate here: https://www.investing.com/currencies/usd-sgd-forward-rates or here https://www.barchart.com/forex/quotes/USDSGD.M/overview

Of course another possibility is difference in US and SG inflation rate, that's Fisher effect at play. I can't find SG inflation forecast data, so can't deduce that.

But you can be sure in the long run, SGD's appreciation (against USD) will always mean SG rates are lower than the US side. Short-term, I may be wrong.

higher rates... increases its currency value... by locking up supply... reducing liquidity...

this is one of few ways central banks manipulate its currency

Good news (ladies and) gentlemen:

https://www.mas.gov.sg/news/letters-to-edit...on-linked-bonds

Inflation-linked SGS bonds may be coming soon. MAS still need to do some study anyway.

This post has been edited by TOS: Nov 9 2022, 06:15 PM

since 2010... usd has gotten stronger overall... now looks like it is range-bound

also looks like mas has intervene recently and sgd is slowly strengthening... until break the support, don't think is going anywhere soon...

for comparison...


the 2015-17 rise in USD imho is GE/1mdb... and unlike sg lately, BNM not intervening much... except today something is happening... myr doing OK relatively before 1mdb...


This post has been edited by dwRK: Nov 9 2022, 06:52 PM

You bid 4.7% today? I see from hwz mostly bid from 4.2 to 4.6 only…

Yup 4.7%.

I always bid higher than those kiasu kiasi HWZ members...

Ok lah maybe they are old age uncles, so cannot get too much shock when MAS announces bid results.

We will see tomorrow. Today's US 6 month is already 4.65%. https://www.investing.com/rates-bonds/u.s.-...onth-bond-yield

If I don't make it through the cut-off yield, will try again 2 weeks later.

Well,... off the top of my head now, I'm not using any theory. I just called out an observation to you, and an internal gut feel that the SGD is strengthening vs the USD now. But longterm wise,.. I'm not making any calls. Look at the USDSGD=X graph,... I recalled it's been rangebound these few years.

MAS intervened by strengthening its currency using the S$NEER band. I think,.. MAS has done this 4 times this year. I noticed every night, in the ppast few evenings,.. watching CNA. The running news at the bottom of the screen,.. at a certain interval, the 'Currencies' will roll past.

And I saw for SGD, it's gotten to below 1.40 last night,... I think it was at 1.39XX,... hence, the strengthening.

I feel,... the SGD will have a chance to strengthen to,.. say, 1.38 vs the USD,... soon,...

Yes 1.38 ish quite doable

MAS seems to have trouble producing the bid results...

Normally it's available between 1 to 2 pm. This time maybe CPF hot money flowing in...

Guess my 4.7% will not make it with those kiasu kiasi CPF monies bidding low...

Maybe between 4.4 to 4.5?

Maybe. I still keep my fingers cross that institution money will outnumber those CPF hot monies since institutions provide "more realistic" figure.

Did you submit a few competitive bids with different desired yields? At least can get some.

No, I am a strong believer in the "1 market 1 price" mantra. I don't treat bidding in an auction like some fun number/lottery game where you "test water" with multiple bids and hope all stars aligned.

So just 1 yield for each auction. If it does not meet my expectation, I will go in next round or move my funds elsewhere.

Of course it's totally fine if you submit multiple bids. I just feel like such action distorts the market pricing and is a very irresponsible market abusing behaviour.

This post has been edited by TOS: Nov 10 2022, 04:51 PM

no bro... one big order at one price creates a buy or sell wall... this basically block the price from moving... this is actually the irresponsible action...

big orders are encouraged to split/spread it around... even ibkr has a tool for it... or do it otc to not disrupt the market...

I have no moral obligation to care about price movement. I bid at the price I want. Whether you want to sell to me at this price/yield is entirely your choice. We have different moral views haha. (My fiduciary duty is to "get the best execution price for my client (i.e. me)", not "generating liqudity and ensure market moves smoothly". That is the job of a market maker, which is why you have primary dealers for T-bills.)

Fair enough. But that is if you have the capital to do so. Retail investors won't have that luxury unless you go in at 10-20k SGD each time. It would be nice if I can split my bids at 100 SGD for 10 different bids, but minimum is 1k SGD, so I reserve that for the highest yield I believe to be reasonable.

Anyway, this is an auction, not continuous market making. In typical Sotheby-like artifacts auctions, I don't see bidders "split" bids like what you mention. The bidders just throw out any price they deem reasonable. MAS bills auctions differ from Sotheby-like auctions in that you can't inspect the order books before hand, nor can you see what other bidders are bidding in real-time. So there is no way you can "split" bids while ensuring no one bumps into you at the price range you bid. Not sure if your IBKR comparison is relevant to either case.

This post has been edited by TOS: Nov 10 2022, 07:10 PM

My bid 4.25% got refunded. Hwz reported the yield is about 3.99% only. All these kiasu pipu…

Arghhhh.... Those kiasu kiasi bidders!!!





Source: https://www.mas.gov.sg/bonds-and-bills

This post has been edited by TOS: Nov 10 2022, 07:49 PM

I'm responding to your last para... "Of course it's totally fine if you submit multiple bids. I just feel like such action distorts the market pricing and is a very irresponsible market abusing behaviour."

this is a very strong view/position... imagine buying lottery or playing roulette but you are limited to only one... but since multiple bids are allowed, obviously MAS doesn't share your concerns...

anyways... do what you must...

You got a point. I should drop the word "very".

I choose the NC route, partially refunded...

Bid 4.3% got refunded as well. I think a lot people buy with CPF funds..

We underestimated CPF power... Many Sporeans like my SG friend also got refunded. They bid around 4.2-4.5% too.

I wonder how those institutions would react. I don't believe they bid at 4% p.a, judging by the fact that just a few days back 50% bid between 4.2% to 4.6% for a 12-week/3-month bill.

Wahh, bros,... 4% only,... AND LOCKED FOR 6 MONTHS. Might as well go for SSB,....

And bloody CPI Reading for October was just released. Only 7.7%,... below the 7.9% consensus. So,.. stocks will fly tmrw,.... bad for me. Bad for us,....

SSB most probably will get sgd10k or less only. Anyway i will still try to apply 15k maybe get lucky….

The difference this time compared to the last round is,.. the allocated amt this time is $1bil,... correct me if I'm wrong,... last mth,... this amt to be 'given out' was just $800mil,... So,.. maybe can get allocated 10K units again, because more people might be applying.

Yeah,... I'll use 15K to enter too,...

I got alloted 10.5k for last month SSB. Total alloted was 900mil, not 800mil. Hence got 100mil increase for this coming SSB.

Ok bro,... tq for the correction,...

I got alloted only 10K last round.

Good prediction, the stocks really fly today.. Will this signal the end of interest rate hike cycle or still too early to tell?

My SG friend said yesterday next round he gonna bid 3% only...

I think T-bills are no longer "investible" going forward with retail money influx.

We can tell going forward if divergence is spotted in yields between MAS bills and T-bills auctions.

For interest rate hikes, we will need to see CPI numbers in the future. If next month the number exceeds consensus all profits now will surely be erased.

I'll reply my bro here against every sentence,...

The spread wasn't that terrible last few rounds. It's always been 50bps behind US 6 month, last round (2 weeks ago) 20 bps above US 6 month. Now suddenly 60-70 bps behind US 6 months. That's too volatile a change.

As for divergence in yields. If you compare 3M to 6M, it wasn't too bad in the previous few rounds. All differences are reasonable to within few bps to 20 bps.

MAS 3M	T-bill 6M
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And that's even with retailer coming in and started spoiling the party since August... This round is really unprecedented.

The Fed is wholly focused on getting inflation down. Uhmm... what other numbers matter more than CPI/PCE readings?