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 SG Savings Bond (SSB) & Treasury Bills (T-bills), Guaranteed by Singapore Government

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TSikanbilis
post Jun 1 2022, 07:12 PM, updated 10 months ago

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Risk free investment vehicle offered by Singapore Government.

For reference :

https://www.mas.gov.sg/bonds-and-bills/auct...suance-calendar

https://www.ilovessb.com/


HWZ SSB thread:

https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/...006693/page-501

HWZ T-bills thread:

https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/...769601/page-321

This post has been edited by ikanbilis: Dec 8 2022, 03:36 PM
TSikanbilis
post Jun 1 2022, 07:44 PM

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QUOTE(yklooi @ Jun 1 2022, 07:22 PM)
Not sure if I calculates it correctly....
For a 10yrs holding period.... @2.x%pa....

I would prefer to put in kwsp @abt 5.5%pa...
That is a plus of abt 3%pa.....
I think SGD cannot appreciates at a 3%pa over MYR.
What do you think?
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Epf is retirement fund that most people cannot touch until 55 years old. SSB is more like FD which can withdraw every month. Singapore bank pays very little interests in comparison.

Epf may give a better rate but i don't put all my money in one place. SSB is part of my diversification portfolio on top of my epf and asnb savings.

By the way SSB has a limit of SGD200k per person.

This post has been edited by ikanbilis: Jun 1 2022, 07:53 PM
TSikanbilis
post Jun 6 2022, 05:15 PM

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QUOTE(sgh @ Jun 6 2022, 03:49 PM)
Not sure need to open a new topic but since this is about Singapore Savings Bond, a close relative to this is called Spore T-bill. How it works is below

1. Every 2 weeks Spore govt issue a new/reopen T-bill of 6 months maturity
2. Retail investors can participate by applying. During apply there is competitive and non-competitive bids. Why this work is becuz the 'interest' (they call cutoff yield) of the T-bill is not known in advance. It will only be known once the auction has taken place. The auction involve some primary dealer banks bidding.
3. Once the auction results is out, up to 40% of the T-bill size is first given to ppl on non-competitive bids. If over then pro-rated. The remaining 60% will be alloted to those who place competitive bids. The upcoming 09 Jun 2022 size is 4.1 billion of which 1.64 billion will be for non-competitive bids to get FIRST before the rest is alloted to the competitive bids for those with lowest to the cutoff yield onwards. Compared to SSB latest of only 350 million this T-bill size is so much larger so chance of not getting is lower?

E.g Auction result come out is 1%. Minimum invest is 1000. So you get $10/2 = $5 since it is for 6months. You then hold the T-bill in your CDP until 6 months later mature return you back your $1000. The $5 is your discount for the T-bill but I think of it as upfront interest like Maybank FD. Put get interest already a few days later

Pro and con
1. Cannot redeem each month like SSB. You can sell in secondary market but may lose capital
2. No need pay $2 for apply like SSB. I test using POSB,DBS mobile app
3. You get your "interest" upon know auction results few days later. That is the discount you get actually
4. No 200k SSB limit but per auction limit at 1 million

The last 26 May 2022 auction result is 1.80% for 6 months.
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Yup this is the closest relative to SSB.

But i still prefer the flexibility of the SSB. Meaning i can keep the SSB for few years with an acceptable interest rate, or i can redeem it next month when an investment opportunity arise.

This post has been edited by ikanbilis: Jun 6 2022, 05:17 PM
TSikanbilis
post Nov 3 2022, 09:58 AM

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QUOTE(sgh @ Jun 6 2022, 03:49 PM)
Not sure need to open a new topic but since this is about Singapore Savings Bond, a close relative to this is called Spore T-bill. How it works is below

1. Every 2 weeks Spore govt issue a new/reopen T-bill of 6 months maturity
2. Retail investors can participate by applying. During apply there is competitive and non-competitive bids. Why this work is becuz the 'interest' (they call cutoff yield) of the T-bill is not known in advance. It will only be known once the auction has taken place. The auction involve some primary dealer banks bidding.
3. Once the auction results is out, up to 40% of the T-bill size is first given to ppl on non-competitive bids. If over then pro-rated. The remaining 60% will be alloted to those who place competitive bids. The upcoming 09 Jun 2022 size is 4.1 billion of which 1.64 billion will be for non-competitive bids to get FIRST before the rest is alloted to the competitive bids for those with lowest to the cutoff yield onwards. Compared to SSB latest of only 350 million this T-bill size is so much larger so chance of not getting is lower?

E.g Auction result come out is 1%. Minimum invest is 1000. So you get $10/2 = $5 since it is for 6months. You then hold the T-bill in your CDP until 6 months later mature return you back your $1000. The $5 is your discount for the T-bill but I think of it as upfront interest like Maybank FD. Put get interest already a few days later

Pro and con
1. Cannot redeem each month like SSB. You can sell in secondary market but may lose capital
2. No need pay $2 for apply like SSB. I test using POSB,DBS mobile app
3. You get your "interest" upon know auction results few days later. That is the discount you get actually
4. No 200k SSB limit but per auction limit at 1 million

The last 26 May 2022 auction result is 1.80% for 6 months.
*
You mentioned T bill 26 May was 1.8%.

Most recent T bill 27 Oct already 4.19%!

Interest rate is fast rising! Glad i subscribed the 4.19% T bill. Planning to subscribe the next T bill 10 Nov auction.

This post has been edited by ikanbilis: Nov 3 2022, 01:13 PM
TSikanbilis
post Nov 6 2022, 09:18 PM

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QUOTE(TOS @ Nov 6 2022, 08:14 PM)
You can... reinvest those funds into new issues of T-bills...and wait for the next downturn...  tongue.gif

They call it "laddering". The most conservative bond investment strategy.

------------------------------

I have been looking at short-term deposit solutions to solve the "6-month-too-long" issue.

I presume you are in SG most of the time? If so, you can open as many SG FD accounts as you like with the banks found via this tool: https://sgfd.neocities.org/

And last time mentioned about MAS Bill via institutions, that's one avenue to consider too.

Recently, I am looking at USD FD deposits. DBS/UOB has USD FD deposits for short tenures of 1-3 months. The minimum deposit is 5k USD (UOB) and 5k SGD (DBS). You can use IBKR-DBS Remit to move money in and out in USD and other currencies. But you may only do so once a month due to IBKR's monthly withdrawal limit.
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I will do the ladder strategy for the T-bill as well. Spread my T-bills into 13 tranches so that my ladder would complete by 2 May 2023. biggrin.gif
TSikanbilis
post Nov 6 2022, 09:26 PM

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QUOTE(TOS @ Nov 6 2022, 09:19 PM)
You are very rich... That's 13k SGD in total at the minimum...
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Please dont say that. There are a lot of rich sifus in lowyat. Im only ikan bilis.

#usernamecheckout cool2.gif
TSikanbilis
post Nov 8 2022, 08:04 AM

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Reminder : Tomorrow would be the last day to apply for BS22122Z T-bill.

After trying out NC for the last issue, i am bidding for comp for the first time. I am bidding for 4.25% yield, a bit on the low side to ensure higher chance of getting it. tongue.gif
TSikanbilis
post Nov 8 2022, 10:39 AM

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QUOTE(TOS @ Nov 8 2022, 08:32 AM)
Why didn't you wait until today's MAS Bill auction results out and check their bids first?
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I just check the US 6 month treasury bill rate then just hentam one figure i think is nice. tongue.gif

https://ycharts.com/indicators/6_month_treasury_bill_rate

This post has been edited by ikanbilis: Nov 8 2022, 10:40 AM
TSikanbilis
post Nov 8 2022, 11:01 AM

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QUOTE(TOS @ Nov 8 2022, 10:52 AM)
laugh.gif Seriously, that's how you bid for something in an auction? ... laugh.gif

Ok lah, but I think 4.4% looks more reasonable. 20bp behind current yield, similar to past issue. We will see today's results soon.
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Yes i also think most probably 4.4% will also get it. I just want to bid lower.
TSikanbilis
post Nov 8 2022, 01:34 PM

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QUOTE(Hansel @ Nov 8 2022, 01:29 PM)
bros,... if you are bidding for 4.4%, why not you buy : FPTREA 4.49%270916XB# ?

The above is now giving out more than 4.49% yield since the price is below the par value of $1.00 now.

With the Feds soon to pivot,... or least pause,... the price won't drop much anymore.
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One is issued by Sg Gov another by private company. If both about same yield which one would you choose?
TSikanbilis
post Nov 8 2022, 02:06 PM

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QUOTE(Hansel @ Nov 8 2022, 01:59 PM)
If truly same yield, then obviously, the SG Govt's one.

But I would not under-rate Frasers' credit rating here. And secondly, Frasers offers a slightly higher effective rate now since the bond price is below $1.00,...

The Frasers Green Bond is 'continuous' for the next few years and will not leave me exposed with money in my hands after the next 6 mths, unlike the T-Bill which will return my money in 6-mths time.
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It all depends on individual risk appetite. When i was younger, i have no problem investing 80% of my assets in shares, futures, unit trust and private bonds.

For my age now i am so risk averse that i would only invest in government bonds, FDs and ASNB fixed price fund.
TSikanbilis
post Nov 8 2022, 03:11 PM

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Just be cautious of any private bonds. For reading pleasure only

https://www.dividendtitan.com/frasers-prope...-buying-at-4-49

https://www.dividendtitan.com/frasers-property-green-bonds/

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This post has been edited by ikanbilis: Nov 8 2022, 03:21 PM
TSikanbilis
post Nov 9 2022, 06:50 PM

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QUOTE(TOS @ Nov 8 2022, 01:08 PM)
rclxm9.gif

4-week 3.8% cut-off, 12-week 4.6% cut-off.

It is interesting to note 12-week median is 4.33% p.a. while average is 3.85%. So 50% of institutions bid between 4.33% and 4.6% for a 3-month bill.

Source:

4-week: https://www.mas.gov.sg/bonds-and-bills/auct...date=2022-11-11

12-week: https://www.mas.gov.sg/bonds-and-bills/auct...date=2022-11-11

Tomorrow gonna bid 4.7%!
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You bid 4.7% today? I see from hwz mostly bid from 4.2 to 4.6 only…
TSikanbilis
post Nov 10 2022, 04:37 PM

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QUOTE(TOS @ Nov 10 2022, 04:28 PM)
MAS seems to have trouble producing the bid results...

Normally it's available between 1 to 2 pm. This time maybe CPF hot money flowing in...

Guess my 4.7% will not make it with those kiasu kiasi CPF monies bidding low... laugh.gif
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Maybe between 4.4 to 4.5? biggrin.gif
TSikanbilis
post Nov 10 2022, 07:40 PM

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My bid 4.25% got refunded. Hwz reported the yield is about 3.99% only. All these kiasu pipu…
TSikanbilis
post Nov 10 2022, 10:45 PM

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QUOTE(Hansel @ Nov 10 2022, 10:35 PM)
Wahh, bros,... 4% only,... AND LOCKED FOR 6 MONTHS. Might as well go for SSB,....

And bloody CPI Reading for October was just released. Only 7.7%,... below the 7.9% consensus. So,.. stocks will fly tmrw,.... bad for me. Bad for us,....
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SSB most probably will get sgd10k or less only. Anyway i will still try to apply 15k maybe get lucky….
TSikanbilis
post Nov 11 2022, 10:02 AM

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QUOTE(Hansel @ Nov 11 2022, 09:55 AM)
The difference this time compared to the last round is,.. the allocated amt this time is $1bil,... correct me if I'm wrong,... last mth,... this amt to be 'given out' was just $800mil,... So,.. maybe can get allocated 10K units again, because more people might be applying.

Yeah,... I'll use 15K to enter too,...
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I got alloted 10.5k for last month SSB. Total alloted was 900mil, not 800mil. Hence got 100mil increase for this coming SSB.


TSikanbilis
post Nov 11 2022, 04:42 PM

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This is out of topic but for the benefit of those who missed the T-bill with short term idle funds.

DBS eFD : 3 month 3.5% use code SR4M

DBS eFD : 5 month 3.8% use code SR7M

Minimum SGD20,000

Applicable only on the DBS app

I have placed the 3 month 3.5% eFD myself.

This post has been edited by ikanbilis: Nov 11 2022, 08:34 PM
TSikanbilis
post Nov 12 2022, 01:36 PM

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QUOTE(Hansel @ Nov 12 2022, 01:14 PM)
Tq bro,...

I keyed-in the codes 'SR4M' and 'SR7M', said the codes are not valid, bro,...

These codes are the promo codes under the screen called : 'Place Fixed Deposit', right ?
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Did you use the web instead of the app? Another forummer also asked me the same issue. To use the promo code you have to use the dbs app.
TSikanbilis
post Nov 12 2022, 01:59 PM

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QUOTE(Hansel @ Nov 12 2022, 01:45 PM)
Firstly,.. wanna thank bros TOS and Ikanbilis here for the help,...

Yes, I used my iPhone app,... keyed-in your code just now and got the 'Not Valid' reply,... maybe becos it's Saturday today, bros ? I saw somewhere,.. can't put FDs for Saturdays and Sundays,...

Ahh,... if early withdrawal, got penalty,... then dangerous,...  biggrin.gif ,... THANK YOU for the heads-up, bro TOS.....
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Saturday and PH can place the eFD. I just tried and able to do so.

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