true ar...if give too much pear can get diarhea?

btw..do gliders have good memories?

Aiyah, you only do selective reading lor. She always said its not a good idea to give catfoods as daily food. Yes, she did aware about the high level protein in Origjen.

"... The only brand that is alright and safe to give gliders is Orijen. Giving the dog/puppy version of this brand is better as cat food usually have taurine and much higher levels of protein whilst the dog food is more towards the omnivour side, which is better"

See! She already mention about that!

And its not about what they like and what they dont like to eat. Its about providing them the best nutritions needed by their body. Sure, some people like curry and some like to eat western foods. But those some people have doctors and personal trainers to repair whatever damages they caused through treatment and exercises. But do the gliders have a skilled vet here thats a specialist on glider? I dont think so.

I dont know about you, but giving the glider the best care and nutritional foods would save me trips to the vet that should be unnecessary in the first place.

---

Added on January 22, 2008, 5:36 amDont worry, I will of course neuter him at that time. I just want to experience having both of the gender. Unlike the gerbils where I can wait till its their time to go before trying another gender, gliders took longer time since they have longer lifespan .

Plus, also kinda afraid another male would bully him because of the size. Huhu~

This post has been edited by emino: Jan 22 2008, 05:42 AM

alamak...after all this while i salah ker? i got 2 joeys. n i feed them apples, pear n orange. i cut them in small bits like 1cmsq each. n 1 biji of each can last to 2 weeks. but sumtimes also give pessimons, plums, papaya, mangos. like today apple, pears n orrange, tomorrow papaya. then apple again, then mangos. n i give them low fat yogurt, when i eat them like 2 - 3 times a week. i nvr feed them mealworm yet but i gave them eggs - scrambled or boiled. n baby food, like heinz n gerber. vege one.

I'm responding to all your Q's above.

The joeys in the pix are 3 months old FROM BIRTH, NOT OOP (Out Of Pouch)

A joey is ready to be sold or separated from their parent only at 2 months (8 weeks) OOP. 3 months form birth means it's only 1 month OOP.

Believe me, I know how a 1 month OOP joey looks like and a 2 months OOP joey looks like.

You wanna see how a 2 months OOP joey look like? Feel free to come and see me!

Yes, all the diet/food listed sounds like it came from MILLER/Commercial Breeder. Their diet is not restricted to only that, itis much, much more wider!

NO, pears does not cause diarrhea. My suggies loves pears! They have never gotten any diarrhea case from it. The only thing I know is pears is more expensive than apples... Perhaps they would like to cut cost?

Who the heck came up with giving mealworms will cause blindness to gliders???

Same goes with feeding live insects will cause them to turn aggressive... Where does all this superstition come from???

Mealworms and cricket is a good source of protein.

Overall, I think the joeys are still too young. Even tho they are seen eating by themselves, that's their survival instinct to do so because they have been cut off from nursing too young...

I am not against people buying/getting a joey like that from those sellers or even pet shops because I have a heart for them and wish to see them in a better home... BUT, you must clearly understand what you are getting and must not whine or complain if there's any complication in the future except for giving the best you can to your suggie, because we have told you so...



Yes, cat food is not good for suggies because it's CATFOOD, NOT glider food!

Yes, Orijen is one of the best if you want to give cat food still to your suggies, BUT it is not given as staple food, only sparingly and as treats.

We are aware of the high protein content, and we are also aware of all the natural ingredient and not to mention wheat and gluten free content which is one of the most important factor. Because of the high protein content also that we advise it to be given sparingly and as treats only, NOT as staple.

Miller is normally used to refer for those who breeds in large amount, not to mention the care factor.

Looking at those young joeys, one can guess how they are being raised. And like I've mentioned above, I know how a 2 months OOP joey would look like and it's nothing like the pixs shown.

I've seen how a commercial glider breeder breeds and how they are kept like, so don't say I don't know.

Ofcourse it's not necessary to follow what I feed to my suggies, but it is necessary to follow the basic guidelines that every suggie owner in the world gives their suggie right? And to understand and examine what long time glider keepers around the world has experienced and such.

So far, no one, NO ONE here has ever claim to be the best breeder or for the fact, even breeds suggies... Because breeding suggies is a BIG commitment and takes a LOT of time, plus if you follow the right way to breeding suggies, follow the right timeline and all, you're not gonna make much out of selling it anyway...

Why we react this way is simply because we care.

It's up to one person to buy the joey from any source they like, be it miller or pet shop, BUT they must fully understand what they are in for, that's all.



Nope, pears don't cause diarrhea as far as I know.

Yes, gliders do have good memories if they have been associated to one certain thing long enough It will stick with them



Aiyarrr, you said you read this thread...

How come now baru say you got it wrong...

1st page already has so much info maaa...



-----

Adoiiiii, what a morning...


KP

Sorri....today jugak i'll try to vary their diet more. I solemnly promise.
and KP can u do me a favour...these pictures of our joeys are taken recently. I really need to know how old are they.
the pics are a bit blur. camera hp only.

Cheekoo
Koochee

Yup..n they are really2 small.

spel'it,

They look very-very small dear.

I'm guessing appx. 3-4 weeks OOP...



When did you get them?

KP

i got them abt a month ago. 19th Dec. Yep, compared to the pics u guys posted in the 1st page, we had guess that the petshop owner lied to us. but then, we've already bought them at that time, n they just so cute n i cant help but falling in love with them instantly.

When reading this thread, i've tried my bess to keep them healthy. Feed them with fruit juices, yogurt, n eggs. Bcoz, as i said, they hardly know how to chew yet at that time. Now ok skit la. N b4 this, Cheekoo hardly eats. So i need to kinda rub the juices on his mouth so that he can lick it. It takes nearly or more than one hour each time -each.

This post has been edited by spel'it: Jan 22 2008, 11:21 AM

I am always and constantly doing research on gliders.

Searching for infos and answers here and there.

To me I am still learning, because learning is a never ending process.

There are many-many websites with information about gliders, but if you have gone through all a million of times, you will be able to detect which ones good and which ones are not.

In the 1st page we have in fact listed some reference websites that we've referred to, however it must've slipped out of all of your mind.

The one in my siggy is good, but I don't know how many of you have actually clicked on it and complete reading it...

Another one that is good or I could say the best is of course Glider University because they really-really care about gliders and their care standard is even almost out of our reach...

They even have courses for people to enroll in!

Anyway, it is a good place to refer to... But I must warn you, it will make you feel like you're not such a good owner after all!

:: Glider University ::



KP

I see.

When was that pix taken?

Do you have any latest pix like taken today or this week?

I need to see a latest pix.

When you got them, have they opened their eyes?

KP

spel"it why r u so worried about the age of ur gliders ? Since they have been bought by u what u should be more concerned is to feed them with proper n nutituos food...make them healthy n grow up not getting worried about how many months r they ? knowing exactly thier age cant help in their upkeeping n growth so don cry over spilt milk n get more info on how to feed n upkeep them...I fullly support n agree with what iory mentioned about the accusation of millers...Firstly why should u ppl accuse breeders as millers ? They might not be feeding the gliders like what u all do cos they have lots of suggies to feed n it involves lots of cash flow... some bigger ones i seen have about hundreds of suggies so how do u expect them to cover their costs if they were to feed the suggies like what u alll feed ? u have only 2 to 3 pairs n its alright to give them the best food available but if u have hundreds of them eating just tell me la can u afford it ? so they still maintain the food quality but of course its not like what we feed as pets..the suggies stilll get their fruits n some catfood as treats m also mealworms...some breeders still look into the quality of the food cos they know if there is no nutituos food there wont be production n they will be on the losing end...Well if without these breeders where does ur suggies come from ? U wanna import them ? Can u afford to buy them if they r imported ?So i hope that breeders r not accused as millers just bcos they have lots of suggies n not feeding them like what u all feed ur suggies.... u must understand the costs n the overheads of breeding... Well as for the quality of joeys i think they willl also take care of the joeys properly cos its money for them after waiting so long for the joeys to be produced for sale.... If u find the joey not healthy or weak then just don buy... I think u all homebreeders also take care of the joeys properly too cos u sell them to cover up for the foood u spent on them... the same goes for these breeders n i think they r not wrong ..So lets be fair n don BRAND breeders as MILLERS cos without them u wont be having ur joeys...breeding pets n keeping them as pets is a totally different subject n the attention to them is also different..I have about a hundred hamsters n i m breeding them n i know what the breeders do n feed them with...i mix the food for my hamsters myself n i do not buy those branded n expensive foood for my hamsters cos i know whats inside those bags... why waste all ur money when u can buy the ingredients urself n mix them for ur pet ? Thats what breeders do to cut costs..all i wanna point out to u alll is that not every breeder is a MILLER n please don brand them like that.. thank you

Let me teach something so valuable to you. Its called ENTER key. A karangan like this is hard to read ler. I just got past third line and zzz already. Even in UPSR students are taught to write in paragraphs. If you want people to read it, seperate the paragraphs based on points.

And I dont agree on your point. We should breed to enhance the quality of the pets and to provide healthy line of pets, not to make money.

If you dont have enough cash to give the best care possible to the glider, why do you start in the first place?

And I dont support pet breeders who cant spend enough time and cash to make sure they are healthy and tame. Its not about accusations and such. Its about the quality of the pets that you breed.

And yes, of course we need to worry about age since if they are indeed underage, we need to gives more attention and care since they are a lot more fragile.

And about the whole 'without them, how would we get them in the first place', back then we dont have a choice. But now we do. And those who knows better should educate those who dint. And now since we get to choose, I rather choose a good, well-fed pet with solid home-breed parentage background rather than those pets that are only fed food that is cukup makan.

This post has been edited by emino: Jan 22 2008, 11:55 AM

KP,
Gerber baby's 2nd food, issit ok to give to them? I mean the one with niacin, riboflavin? Its organic, but then when i read the ingredients, there are these things. Can or not? I think its the mixed fruits one. I've bought the carrot n sweet patatoes one. They hardly touch it.

Cat food is just nice for our Malaysian weather?

Let's see, why do we call them 'millers' in the first place? Why not breeder or home breeder? There is a significant difference in the words. A miller can apply to almost anyone breeding any specific or multiple animals in mass production. Do you know how many gliders they have? They usually have almost 200 wild caught adult gliders breeding all year round. You say that they don't need to follow what we feed, yes, you don't need to, but do gliders eat cat food and apples as their staple in the wild? No right? The breeder that supplies to Pet Safari does not feed them Orijen because if he did, he wouldn't be making profit as it's a lot more expensive compared to other more commercial brands.

The research done is not as perfected as dogs or cats, like I said before, they are EXOTIC animals, so since so little research is done, the best diet for them is to replicate the variety they get in the wild. It's like me saying I should feed cat food to my snake because buying rats and mice is too much hassle and it's cheaper to feed cat food, since I have a cat anyway, so I feed cat food.

Btw, we're not naming or labeling anyone here as a miller, I just said the advise is from a typical miller.

How can you say this, 'some love western food n others might not like it tooo so i think the best thing for all of us to do is feed ur suggies with nutritous food according to ur budget as long as the suggies r well looked after n have proper care.' This 'according to your budget as long as they are looked after and properly cared for', please explain. How can feeding apples and cat food, 'according to the miller's budget', be properly looking after and caring for them? The most care he can probably give IS feeding them, unless the miller does nothing but spend time with all the breeding sugar gliders.

The thing why ppl worry about the age is usually because 'If they are too young is there a risk they might fall sick or die?'

I don't think it's wrong to ask and worry about his/her gliders, though a bit late as it's after the person bought them, it's still not too late to ask and know more about their health and nutrition. It's IS important to know the age because gliders that are too young can't even take fruits, they need milk and the milk they need is not your average cow or goat milk you buy from the super market.

Of course you fully understand what he is saying, it's because you are a hamster miller yourself. It fits the criteria. You have about 100 hamsters. You are breeding them for quantity, not quality right? But the difference here is, hamster nutrition cannot be compared to gliders.

You get grains from the pet store that sells them in huge sacks. Get a few grains, barley, wheat, oat groats, let's not forget the kuaci, millet etc. Mix them all up and store them in some store room. It'll last you a month or so, everyday just open the bag, dish out a bowlfull, chore done. But you take initiative to go buy sacks of grains from the shop! You take initiative to mix it all together! But we know what hamsters need to eat. We know that it's mainly grains like those. Do we know what gliders need to eat? Can their nutritional needs be fulfilled by cat food and apples? Course not.

This mindset about, 'If it weren't for these ppl breeding in mass quantity, you won't have such a pet.' I find that wrong. A number of years ago, gliders were not RM300. not even RM488, they were above RM1000. They were already AVAILABLE, just that ppl couldn't afford to buy. They were not MADE AVAILABLE by ppl that bred them in mass. In a way it was good that they were that price, make ppl treasure them a lot more and curbs impulse buyers from getting on impulse.

This post has been edited by Reanne: Jan 22 2008, 01:20 PM

Just for the records, I gave my joey pears before.. and he got diarrhea. I stopped and start giving apples and catfood. Their great and active now. Dont wanna give them dog food, it's dog food la.. aya.. I dont even want to touch that.. haha!

Then the other one, I saje2 give him pears, also diarrhea, this time really sick and made me go to Dr Yeoh. yup, I changed the diet and he's going great ever since.

The other day I sms KP asking whether its ok or not to give cococrunch to joey, she said not (same as what I researched). But for the last 3 months, my friend is giving his joey eating cocorunch and his joey is doing well.

Hurm, feel free to argue bout this but I'm telling based on experience. Just a tip for all of you, dont wash your fruits after cutting it. Just give it to them.

I just feel like, there's much more to discover bout this comel animal. Dont just read from the internet, it's not all true. Try exploring it yourself with your glider.

About gliders getting blind, yup, I heard few breeders telling that too.. But they still give it but in small amount. Bout eating insects being aggressive, yup, happen to mine also.. like to cakar2 org.. tensyen!

Bout the seller mentioned before, wah really cute and adorable (as he says). If I was you, I would just take it, because at least he's playing with them, and looks like their having much fun. Rather than getting from petshop where they just leave it in its cage or glass tank. Yup, it's small but start eating by itself is a good sign already. But if others are trying to say not to buy from him/she, it's up to you then. Go and have a look first la.. tak salah pon kalau nak tengok je..

Sometimes you could meet people with 2 years experience with glider but knows nothing, other time you meet people with 2 months experience but knows almost everything. But try to avoid those people who only have a few months experience and trying to act like know everything. Oh god damn, I met so many of them. And one of them is the petshop that I bought mine. I'm planning to kick her in the ass! but she has so many workers that I'm afraid that I cant fight back alone.. haha!

Good luck you guys in having a new pet!

Lastly, just wanna let u guys know that I'm working as a musician and we travel alot. Sugar gliders are not as hard as they're telling to keep as a pet. They are so clever and cute, and they are more famous than I am.. damn! Just make sure you've prepared with all their requirement and knowledge, that's good enough...

Happy Thaipusam!

Cococrunch? Wah, need to stop that eh. The joey may look fine, but chocolate(cocoa) is poisonous to a lot of animals, even to dogs. The joey may look fine now, but goodness knows what's going on inside it and later when discovered might be too late. Some ppl also give chocolate to their dogs and say that their dog loves it and their dog is still alive, but it already has been proven as toxic, just that some dogs don't get affected as fast so soon, but it will show later if they continue to feed.

As mentioned a lot before, we don't encourage buying from pet shops because they usually get their stock from mills.

My gliders eat mealworms and crickets almost everyday, they do not bite or cakar me. Same goes to the other 10+ glider owners here. Did you leave your glider too long without playing with them? Or they happen to jump on you and accidentally scratch you?

Toxic? Yeah, that's what I told him but he said he'll do anything to make his glider happy. So I said dont say that I didnt warn ya! haha..

Leave my gliders? Wah, they are with me almost all the time. If not, with my girlfriend. They are even on stage with me.. haha!

Well, can't really say anything if he doesn't want to listen.

Try not to give them much baby food.

I'd recommend Heinz over Gerber. Do look carefully at the ingredients.

Make a mix or buy it. It's better.



Read carefully what Reanne has said PLEASE...

It makes sense and is only for the better.

And yes, as far as I can see, she has never pin point anyone as a miller, it's just a matter-of-factly saying.

If "feed ur suggies with nutritous food according to ur budget as long as the suggies r well looked after n have proper care." There are so many other nutritious foods to feed if according to your budget rather than cat food and apple lar... All you have to do is research and analyze it.

Suggies are very resilient creature and can conceal sickness very well. If you feed them wrongly or give them an improper diet, you may not see the effect externally and may not be able to tell if there is anything wrong until it is too late to do anything.

Age is important not only for suggies but for all young off springs...

One important thing that the researches has been stressing is that a joey that is not fully weaned or taken from nursing too young, will not be receiving all the necessary nutrient and antibody from their mother's milk.

They will most definitely survive, but will have less antibody against sickness in the future and is most likely to have shorter life span than the average 10 years.

The selling of under aged gliders is booming now.

I'd like to see 5 years from now if these little joeys are still breathing finely.



That's weird, none of us old timers (refering to those owning suggies more than 6 months) has ever experience diarrhea by giving the suggies pear...

Hun? Reanne? CFP? Anyone? Ada ke??

Cococrunch is a No-No as what I've told you.

Yes, you say your friend's glider is doing fine and normal now. Let me know how his suggie is doing in 5 years time okay

I indulge my suggies with mealworms! Fat Live Mealworms! More than 10-15 ekor per day! But none are aggressive what so ever pun...

I did say not everything you read from the websites are good/true, but if you have gone through millions of sites, you sure can weigh yourself what is true and what is not.

Ofcourse you should explore yourself with your glider, but would you wanna risk exploring something that is said to be harmful for them?

Hey, be my guest everyone... Go ahead... Feed your gliders what ever you want, what ever you like, heck even what ever your suggie wants!

I'd really like to hear from you/everyone that does 5 years from now!



KP

After giving reference to the Glider University site, I wanted to share this excerpt too, but unfortunately my net went down and every body started squabbling already.

Anyway, here's an excerpt from the 1st page on Basic Nutrition for gliders.



It already says "NO CATFOOD"... Ever...

Infact in our 1st page also has said NO too...

But some of us are already being flexible enough by allowing it sparingly and as treats only...

Still a lot of people choose to include it as their staple...

WHY?

KP

Sorry to all, long long reply.... but this needs to be replied.

The nail broke off, you need not worry. The nail will regrow but it would look bigger and weird.... then after it has regrown properly, it would take a few trimmings before it looks like normal. I know coz I also experienced before with my glider....

Brown spots like chicken? I find that so strange hahaha,.....

OK, so it is dirt. Do not use baby oil.... just take a wet towel or cloth, dip it in warm water and wipe. Soak the fur if you must but never soak your whole glider lah. The wet towel would do well.

Hahaha.... Teddy suits him. Your lil boy is slightly bigger now, still the sweet little thing, waiting for you hehehe.

It depends on the gliders. My females don't mind other gliders, but my male joey is now anti-social a bit hahaha.... Each glider have different friendliness hahahah.

You wanna get one?

Pear doesn't really cause diarrhea unless it is the only fruit you are feeding. Apples has a higher fiber content than pear. Is like if you feed a glider with too much papaya, then say hello to watery smelly poo poo. So the key thing is to feed a variety of fruits.

Mealworms are fattening, that is why we prefer crickets. The fat content is super high, so if we feed them say RM1 worth of mealworms a day, and that means everyday for a year, the glider is very likely gonna have some vision problems. It is not BLINDNESS.... it is just a white fat build up that covers up the eye.... It interferes with vision only.... and it can be treated too. If you feed 10 mealworms a day, is alright.... no biggie coz that WOULD NEVER cause a glider to go blind.

Catfood.... choose one which is holistic, has no garlic or avocado, no soy, no corn. Protein % should be high as that is good, but make sure you never feed more than 2 pieces a day. Only as a treat coz this can be given as a supplement.

No lah.... pear won't give diarrhea but if say given without other types or fruits, then yes.... coz as said before, the fiber content in pears is not as high as apples....

Whoa.... cut back on the oranges. Only feed 1 piece of orange once a week as it is high in citric acid. Well, do go on with as many foods as you can give. I feed mine jambu air madu, ciku, , guava, water chestnuts, sugar apple, mango, papaya, apples, pears, oranges, melons, sawi, bayam, carrots.... is good to alternate the variety of fruits and veggies so that they can get different nutrition.

Ahahaha... adoii for me as well.

But I agree with you too. A miller or commercial breeder is someone who breeds for quantity, not quality. I get sooooo many phone calls from god knows who, asking for hamsters.... ok fine, you want hamsters.... then I'll say I only got 2 left.... then they will freaking ask "When will you have more?" and since I'm no commercial breeder, of course no more.... then he/she would reply that he wants a constant supply, wanting gerbils and hamsters at wholesale price. Ok.... byebye to you, I will never sell to anyone who wants my animals at that price, for petshops or whatever.

There is a difference. A hobbyist breeder would be breeding to improve quality of the species or variety of the animal. Care, good quality food and spacious husbandries are used to produced quality pets. Selection of proper breeding lines, resting schedules and so forth.... so many things to think about. And most of the time, hobbyist breeders never make money. Honestly, I never make a profit for myself.... I'm always short of cash, I work part time to gain money to feed my pets.... I never indulge in luxury, everything goes to my pets. A commercial breeder would not be thinking of quality, more like how many he can churn up in a month for the increasing demand.

The "breeder" would then of course say what he feeds is the best.... but say this to oversea breeders, PETA may come and create a riot over the care of these animals at commercial breeders.... dogfood..... catfood.... if you do not feed a holistic brand without garlic.... then the glider would never have a long life. 10 years! A glider has a long lifespan for a small animal. Feeding dogfood and catfood that we have mentioned are given as treats, NEVER as a 24 hour staple. Apples are loaded with Vit A and Vit C, same as pears.... so where is the glider getting the other nutrition? From the dogfood? Dogfood and catfood are staples for dogs and cats, never for a glider.

How about cages? Tiny bird or hamster cages, crammed up with 4 gliders in 1 cage, with only 1 coconut to share, a bowl of dogfood and a bottle of water. I have seen it before, filth and everything.... this is why we tell people to get from proper breeders.... My 1st glider came from a commercial breeder, totally regret it coz her size was so small.... now my other gliders are from breeders, can see got a difference in them.

Is like buying dogs..... if we get from a proper breeder, we get a quality pet.... but from a puppy miller or certain petshop like Petsmore? Tsk.... I have seen my friends suffer and regret getting dogs from petshops and non-ethical dog breeders.

So far we have not pointed fingers nor mention names publicly, we did mention people to check their sellers if they are hobbyist breeders or commercial breeders.....

We do this coz we care, we care about the animals.

Wahhh.... that sounds like poor appetite. You can always boost the appetite with some Pets Own lactose free milk.

You're a business man, so you think and talk like one. We are pet lovers, so your outlook and our outlook is different. There will always be a barrier between a business man and a pet lover..... all are breeders, but we can put them as miller or hobbyist..... there is a difference. Anyway, both you and iory are related I think coz both usernames have been detected by the system as linked..... by seeing both your sales threads and replies... who knows... could be 1 person with a few accounts.....

So 110% agree!!!!!

Hope you're not gonna feed cococrunch to the joey that's from me..... LOL, if not, the breeder would come and haunt your sleep Anyway, it is best to do your own research first, then gain experience from breeders or keepers with both knowledge and experience.... then learn along with your gliders. That's how I do it too.... I never stop learning, I read on and on.....

About the aggression from eating insects.... it really isn't correct. A glider NEEDS to eat insects..... the aggression is actually excitement. not aggressive wolf-type attack mode lah.... it is so excited till it looks like attacking you but the glider just wants to feast on that juicy insect.

Anyway, you can get your joey next Friday coz I'm gonna be off on that day heheheh.....