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 DG Hisham: KKM MAY start using Ivermectin

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TSBoy96
post Jul 11 2021, 01:03 AM, updated 5y ago

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KUALA LUMPUR: Kementerian Kesihatan (KKM) tidak menolak kemungkinan meluluskan penggunaan Ivermectin bagi merawat pesakit COVID-19 jika terdapat bukti kukuh menjelaskan keberkesanan dan kesan sampingannya.

Ketua Pengarah Kesihatan, Tan Sri Dr Noor Hisham Abdullah, berkata KKM ketika ini hanya membenarkan penggunaan Ivermectin secara 'off label' (ubat di luar indikasi tertera dalam label dan belum atau di luar persetujuan badan atau lembaga bertanggungjawab) sehingga kajian menyeluruh dijalankan.



"Sekarang ini kita boleh gunakan Ivermectin dalam negara dan Bahagian Regulatori Farmasi Negara (NPRA) sudah meluluskan penggunaan 'off label' seperti digunakan dulu untuk ubat anti malaria dan HIV.

"Penggunaannya tidak didaftarkan, tetapi dibenarkan sehingga kita ada bukti kukuh," katanya ketika diundang sebagai panel program The Nation, bertajuk 'COVID-19: Apa Lagi Ikhtiar Kita' yang disiarkan secara langsung menerusi BERNAMA TV malam tadi.


Ivermectin adalah sejenis ubat antiparasit diluluskan Pentadbiran Makanan dan Ubat-Ubatan (FDA) yang digunakan secara meluas bagi rawatan beberapa penyakit tropika terabai, termasuk onchocerciasis, strongyloidiasis dan helminthiases.

Mengulas lanjut, Dr Noor Hisham berkata, KKM juga giat menjalankan kajian untuk mengenal pasti keberkesanan dan kesan sampingannya bagi pesakit COVID-19 kategori tiga, empat dan lima.

"Ivermectin adalah ubat antiparasit yang dikenal pasti dari tahun 70-an dan ia ada kesan antiviral. Saya sendiri sekitar empat tahun lalu mengesyorkan penggunaannya untuk (merawat) denggi.

"Saya kemukakan cadangan ini kerana Ivermectin ada kesan antiviral. Kita sudah menjalankan kajian di Thailand dan kajian permulaan menunjukkan untuk mendapatkan kesan antiviral ini, dosnya amat tinggi," katanya.

Beliau menjelaskan, terdapat kesan sampingan Ivermectin yang tidak dimaklumkan, antaranya Ataxia atau masalah keseimbangan, sawan dan seumpamanya.

Mengulas kemungkinan ubat itu akan dipertimbangkan untuk merawat pesakit COVID-19, Dr Noor Hisham berkata, perkara berkenaan masih dalam penelitian.

"Insya-Allah, ada yang kita sudah benarkan penggunaan secara off label, tetapi dengan pemantauan rapi petugas hospital," katanya.


Pada awal bulan lalu, KKM dan Institut Penyelidikan Klinikal (ICR) memulakan ujian klinikal bagi mengkaji kesan penggunaan serta keberkesanan Ivermectin untuk pesakit COVID-19 yang berisiko tinggi di 12 hospital di bawah kementerian itu.

Dr Noor Hisham sebelum ini menjelaskan, setakat ini Pertubuhan Kesihatan Sedunia (WHO) membenarkan Ivermectin sebagai rawatan COVID-19 dalam kajian atau percubaan klinikal saja.

Bagaimanapun, keengganan KKM menggunakan Ivermectin mengundang ketidakpuasan hati ramai, termasuk doktor pakar dan persatuan pengguna.
SUSgogo2
post Jul 11 2021, 01:04 AM

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Antivax rejoice!
killdavid
post Jul 11 2021, 01:21 AM

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More prove humanity is just doing trial and error on everyone's life.
Take all claims with caution
ieatchickens
post Jul 11 2021, 01:32 AM

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Thanks DG, and may god bless.


Now, to make sure no dumbass nurse triples the 3mg into horse dosage territory, where all of the reported side-effects/dangers comes from.


sigh, on hindsight most woulda kept quiet too.
SUSgogo2
post Jul 11 2021, 01:58 AM

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QUOTE(ieatchickens @ Jul 11 2021, 01:32 AM)
Thanks DG, and may god bless.
Now, to make sure no dumbass nurse triples the 3mg into horse dosage territory, where all of the reported side-effects/dangers comes from.
sigh, on hindsight most woulda kept quiet too.
*
So you are one of the antivax ya. Didn't register for vaccine at all?
upcars
post Jul 11 2021, 02:11 AM

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"jika terdapat bukti kukuh" means u wait long long until hard proof comes along ok ?
zerorating
post Jul 11 2021, 02:15 AM

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so the medicine does work then, interrsting...
SUSMr. WongSF
post Jul 11 2021, 02:45 AM

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QUOTE(zerorating @ Jul 11 2021, 02:15 AM)
so the medicine does work then, interrsting...
*
tat's why hospitals in Mehico are empty
Fanvil1534
post Jul 11 2021, 03:11 AM

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QUOTE(Mr. WongSF @ Jul 11 2021, 02:45 AM)
tat's why hospitals in Mehico are empty
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That's why in India deaths going down drastically after the media scare of 400k+ cases per day despite only 5% vaccinated.
blackamikaze
post Jul 11 2021, 03:19 AM

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But /k/ said all story about ivermectin are fakes and they said the the drugs can only be used on animal. So is this mean kkm want to kill people?
zerorating
post Jul 11 2021, 04:21 AM

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QUOTE(blackamikaze @ Jul 11 2021, 03:19 AM)
But /k/ said all story about ivermectin are fakes and they said the the drugs can only be used on animal. So is this mean kkm want to kill people?
*
most drug in the world are made for human, except it is tested on animal first. many medication that you get from vet are the same used for human, except for recomendation dosage is different (e.g drug used for cat have smaller dosage vs human wan)
zerorating
post Jul 11 2021, 04:31 AM

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QUOTE(Fanvil1534 @ Jul 11 2021, 03:11 AM)
That's why in India deaths going down drastically after the media scare of 400k+ cases per day despite only 5% vaccinated.
*
this research paper said ivermetin help reduce fatality by 56%, it does have a good merit
https://academic.oup.com/ofid/advance-artic...ofab358/6316214
Twins10
post Jul 11 2021, 05:51 AM

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India from 400k daily to 40k n deaths dropped from 5k to 1k in 1 month!
SinzChan
post Jul 11 2021, 06:18 AM

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uturn, jangan tak uturn
blackamikaze
post Jul 11 2021, 06:41 AM

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QUOTE(zerorating @ Jul 11 2021, 04:21 AM)
most drug in the world are made for human, except it is tested on animal first. many medication that you get from vet are the same used for human, except for recomendation dosage is different (e.g drug used for cat have smaller dosage vs human wan)
*
Thank you captain obvious, You should tell this to the people that dint believe that other countries use this drug for covid19 last time

This post has been edited by blackamikaze: Jul 11 2021, 06:42 AM
blackamikaze
post Jul 11 2021, 06:42 AM

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QUOTE(zerorating @ Jul 11 2021, 04:21 AM)
most drug in the world are made for human, except it is tested on animal first. many medication that you get from vet are the same used for human, except for recomendation dosage is different (e.g drug used for cat have smaller dosage vs human wan)
*
Thank you captain obvious, you should tell this to the people that dint believe that other countries use this drug for covid19 last time

This post has been edited by blackamikaze: Jul 11 2021, 06:42 AM
Heroicage
post Jul 11 2021, 07:39 AM

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this drug does NOT guarantee or replaces vaccination....

it reduces your chances to ICU.

aside that prep for real side effects like liver, pancreas, kidney impact/risk....

note, it would be good if they did studies together with other drugs that offer better boosted safety to reduce ICU.



diffyhelman2
post Jul 11 2021, 07:42 AM

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QUOTE(ieatchickens @ Jul 11 2021, 01:32 AM)
Thanks DG, and may god bless.
Now, to make sure no dumbass nurse triples the 3mg into horse dosage territory, where all of the reported side-effects/dangers comes from.
sigh, on hindsight most woulda kept quiet too.
*
The recommended dosage is 12-16mg daily depending on your body weight but this is the standard for most normal weight adults. 200ug/kg bw/day.
ohman
post Jul 11 2021, 07:50 AM

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SUSlowya
post Jul 11 2021, 07:53 AM

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took that dumb so long to understand it's usefulness to avoid jailtime over crime against humanity, but too late.
desmond2020
post Jul 11 2021, 07:56 AM

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QUOTE(zerorating @ Jul 11 2021, 04:31 AM)
this research paper said ivermetin help reduce fatality by 56%, it does have a good merit
https://academic.oup.com/ofid/advance-artic...ofab358/6316214
*
Many studies included were not peer reviewed and a wide range of doses were evaluated.

Lol
desmond2020
post Jul 11 2021, 07:59 AM

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QUOTE(lowya @ Jul 11 2021, 07:53 AM)
took that dumb so long to understand it's usefulness to avoid jailtime over crime against humanity, but too late.
*
Lulz you are talking about the dumb lawsuit india start at india kangaroo Court to charge WHO officer right? It is funny that the person they charged is also indian abit female. Look like that country has issue when being told off by women
letitsnow
post Jul 11 2021, 08:00 AM

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SUSlowya
post Jul 11 2021, 08:02 AM

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He got no choice now but to allow ivermectine

mRNA VACCINE INVENTOR CALLS FOR STOP OF COVID VAX
https://thehighwire.com/videos/mrna-vaccine...p-of-covid-vax/

go watch that video.
desmond2020
post Jul 11 2021, 08:14 AM

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QUOTE(lowya @ Jul 11 2021, 08:02 AM)
He got no choice now but to allow ivermectine

mRNA VACCINE INVENTOR CALLS FOR STOP OF COVID VAX
https://thehighwire.com/videos/mrna-vaccine...p-of-covid-vax/

go watch that video.
*
Maybe consider to allow = allow

BTW Robert malone is not inventor of mRNA vaccine
diffyhelman2
post Jul 11 2021, 08:17 AM

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QUOTE(Heroicage @ Jul 11 2021, 07:39 AM)
this drug does NOT guarantee or replaces vaccination....

it reduces your chances to ICU.

aside that prep for real side effects like liver, pancreas, kidney impact/risk....

note, it would be good if they did studies together with other drugs that offer better boosted safety to reduce ICU.
*
When they used Ivermectin together with other drugs (epidemiological studies, cohort studies etc), these were slammed by critics as confounding factors. Hence to them the only evidence acceptable is dbRCT using Ivermectin as the sole source of intervention vs placebo (not standard of care as this is another source of confounding).

This post has been edited by diffyhelman2: Jul 11 2021, 08:18 AM
mayhammer
post Jul 11 2021, 08:19 AM

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sometime i think its funny
experimental and fast tracked vac, ok
off use ivm, no

wtf

said many times b4, we r in shit
if it works or shown to be somewhat working, then use it

happy kkm started off use for ivm
hopeful for positive clinical trial result by kkm

and all this is risk mgmt

if there is no pressure, u think ppl wanna any c19 vac? no bloody way
we weight the risk of a fast track vac
same goes for any alleged miracle drug against c19

billyboy
post Jul 11 2021, 08:21 AM

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how many people could have been saved, then only accept.......

ini masa perang, bukan masa biasa....

bodo
desmond2020
post Jul 11 2021, 08:22 AM

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QUOTE(mayhammer @ Jul 11 2021, 08:19 AM)
sometime i  think its funny
experimental and fast tracked vac, ok
off use ivm, no

wtf

said many times b4, we r in shit
if it works or shown to be somewhat working, then use it

happy kkm started off use for ivm
hopeful for positive clinical trial result by kkm

and all this is risk mgmt

if there is no pressure, u think ppl wanna any c19 vac? no bloody way
we weight the risk of a fast track vac
same goes for any alleged miracle drug against c19
*
All vaccine has done clinical trial prior

And ivermectin has none, period
SUSlowya
post Jul 11 2021, 08:22 AM

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QUOTE(Heroicage @ Jul 11 2021, 07:39 AM)
this drug does NOT guarantee or replaces vaccination....

it reduces your chances to ICU.

aside that prep for real side effects like liver, pancreas, kidney impact/risk....

note, it would be good if they did studies together with other drugs that offer better boosted safety to reduce ICU.
*
by "reducing", do u mean this?


SUSslimey
post Jul 11 2021, 08:24 AM


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QUOTE(lowya @ Jul 11 2021, 08:02 AM)
He got no choice now but to allow ivermectine

mRNA VACCINE INVENTOR CALLS FOR STOP OF COVID VAX
https://thehighwire.com/videos/mrna-vaccine...p-of-covid-vax/

go watch that video.
*
Lel. Another Malone.
azarimy
post Jul 11 2021, 08:28 AM

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QUOTE(ohman @ Jul 11 2021, 07:50 AM)
user posted image
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Betul laa tu.

They had not approved it for COVID-19. At the moment, they're considering allowing it's use.

This post has been edited by azarimy: Jul 11 2021, 08:28 AM
SUSgogo2
post Jul 11 2021, 08:29 AM

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QUOTE(lowya @ Jul 11 2021, 08:02 AM)
He got no choice now but to allow ivermectine

mRNA VACCINE INVENTOR CALLS FOR STOP OF COVID VAX
https://thehighwire.com/videos/mrna-vaccine...p-of-covid-vax/

go watch that video.
*
That video sounded like conspiracy scam ler

QUOTE(mayhammer @ Jul 11 2021, 08:19 AM)
sometime i  think its funny
experimental and fast tracked vac, ok
off use ivm, no

wtf

said many times b4, we r in shit
if it works or shown to be somewhat working, then use it

happy kkm started off use for ivm
hopeful for positive clinical trial result by kkm

and all this is risk mgmt

if there is no pressure, u think ppl wanna any c19 vac? no bloody way
we weight the risk of a fast track vac
same goes for any alleged miracle drug against c19
*
Miracle drug sounds like scam ler

QUOTE(billyboy @ Jul 11 2021, 08:21 AM)
how many people could have been saved, then only accept.......

ini masa perang, bukan masa biasa....

bodo
*
Betul ke? Mcm scam jer. Jgn2 kena tipu beb.
SUSgogo2
post Jul 11 2021, 08:32 AM

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QUOTE(blackamikaze @ Jul 11 2021, 03:19 AM)
But /k/ said all story about ivermectin are fakes and they said the the drugs can only be used on animal. So is this mean kkm want to kill people?
*
Maybe pressured by antivax?
SUSlowya
post Jul 11 2021, 08:33 AM

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QUOTE(gogo2 @ Jul 11 2021, 08:29 AM)
That video sounded like conspiracy scam ler
Miracle drug sounds like scam ler
Betul ke? Mcm scam jer. Jgn2 kena tipu beb.
*
that video is 1 hour 40 mins, but it took you 27 mins to reply me with your con-clusion. LOL
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post Jul 11 2021, 08:34 AM


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QUOTE(lowya @ Jul 11 2021, 08:33 AM)
that video is 1 hour 40 mins, but it took you 27 mins to reply me with your con-clusion. LOL
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The Malone video has been discredited and debunked many times liao
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post Jul 11 2021, 08:38 AM

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so they seriously think we have the luxury of “probably maybe”? 9k + 9k seem ok numbers then.
SUSlowya
post Jul 11 2021, 08:39 AM

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QUOTE(slimey @ Jul 11 2021, 08:34 AM)
The Malone video has been discredited and debunked many times liao
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ofcause debunk by the manufacturer lah.. u think they will let u get in the way of their fortunes?
SUSslimey
post Jul 11 2021, 08:40 AM


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QUOTE(lowya @ Jul 11 2021, 08:39 AM)
ofcause debunk by the manufacturer lah.. u think they will let u get in the way of their fortunes?
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Dah dah dah.

You are just another tin kosong. No substance
kurangak
post Jul 11 2021, 08:45 AM

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QUOTE(lowya @ Jul 11 2021, 08:02 AM)
He got no choice now but to allow ivermectine

mRNA VACCINE INVENTOR CALLS FOR STOP OF COVID VAX
https://thehighwire.com/videos/mrna-vaccine...p-of-covid-vax/

go watch that video.
*
https://www.logically.ai/factchecks/library/3aa2eefd
SUSlowya
post Jul 11 2021, 08:45 AM

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The Lancet peer reviewed study confirms vaccine efficacy, not at 95%, but as:

* Astra Zeneca 1.3%
* Moderna 1.2%
* J&J 1.2%
* Pfizer 0.84%

They deceived everyone by reporting Relative Risk Reduction (RRR) rather than Absolute Risk Reduction (ARR)
https://www.thelancet.com/action/showPdf?pi...%2821%2900069-0

https://twitter.com/MindshockPod/status/1414007190898229250

SUSlowya
post Jul 11 2021, 08:47 AM

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QUOTE(slimey @ Jul 11 2021, 08:40 AM)
Dah dah dah.

You are just another tin kosong. No substance
*
it's ok please stay naive and innocent, you look cute that way.
SUSlowya
post Jul 11 2021, 08:47 AM

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...

This post has been edited by lowya: Jul 11 2021, 08:48 AM
Acoen
post Jul 11 2021, 08:53 AM

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Thats why some will survive


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bereev
post Jul 11 2021, 08:55 AM

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kalau bagi makan lepas tu ada kesan sampingan dan mati pun marah kkm juga.

bagi makan nanti apa apa kkm kena , tak bagi makan pun kena marah lambat
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post Jul 11 2021, 08:58 AM

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QUOTE(lowya @ Jul 11 2021, 08:45 AM)
The Lancet peer reviewed study confirms vaccine efficacy, not at 95%, but as:

* Astra Zeneca 1.3%
* Moderna 1.2%
* J&J 1.2%
* Pfizer 0.84%

They deceived everyone by reporting Relative Risk Reduction (RRR) rather than Absolute Risk Reduction (ARR)
https://www.thelancet.com/action/showPdf?pi...%2821%2900069-0

https://twitter.com/MindshockPod/status/1414007190898229250
*
Is all other vaccine (non-covid19) using ARR or RRR? What is flu vaccine ARR?

If flu vaccine ARR same as Covid-19 vaccine ARR, what will be the conclusion?
tipuism
post Jul 11 2021, 09:03 AM

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QUOTE(Boy96 @ Jul 11 2021, 01:03 AM)


KUALA LUMPUR: Kementerian Kesihatan (KKM) tidak menolak kemungkinan meluluskan penggunaan Ivermectin bagi merawat pesakit COVID-19 jika terdapat bukti kukuh menjelaskan keberkesanan dan kesan sampingannya.

Ketua Pengarah Kesihatan, Tan Sri Dr Noor Hisham Abdullah, berkata KKM ketika ini hanya membenarkan penggunaan Ivermectin secara 'off label' (ubat di luar indikasi tertera dalam label dan belum atau di luar persetujuan badan atau lembaga bertanggungjawab) sehingga kajian menyeluruh dijalankan.
"Sekarang ini kita boleh gunakan Ivermectin dalam negara dan Bahagian Regulatori Farmasi Negara (NPRA) sudah meluluskan penggunaan 'off label' seperti digunakan dulu untuk ubat anti malaria dan HIV.

"Penggunaannya tidak didaftarkan, tetapi dibenarkan sehingga kita ada bukti kukuh," katanya ketika diundang sebagai panel program The Nation, bertajuk 'COVID-19: Apa Lagi Ikhtiar Kita' yang disiarkan secara langsung menerusi BERNAMA TV malam tadi.
Ivermectin adalah sejenis ubat antiparasit diluluskan Pentadbiran Makanan dan Ubat-Ubatan (FDA) yang digunakan secara meluas bagi rawatan beberapa penyakit tropika terabai, termasuk onchocerciasis, strongyloidiasis dan helminthiases.

Mengulas lanjut, Dr Noor Hisham berkata, KKM juga giat menjalankan kajian untuk mengenal pasti keberkesanan dan kesan sampingannya bagi pesakit COVID-19 kategori tiga, empat dan lima.

"Ivermectin adalah ubat antiparasit yang dikenal pasti dari tahun 70-an dan ia ada kesan antiviral. Saya sendiri sekitar empat tahun lalu mengesyorkan penggunaannya untuk (merawat) denggi.

"Saya kemukakan cadangan ini kerana Ivermectin ada kesan antiviral. Kita sudah menjalankan kajian di Thailand dan kajian permulaan menunjukkan untuk mendapatkan kesan antiviral ini, dosnya amat tinggi," katanya.

Beliau menjelaskan, terdapat kesan sampingan Ivermectin yang tidak dimaklumkan, antaranya Ataxia atau masalah keseimbangan, sawan dan seumpamanya.

Mengulas kemungkinan ubat itu akan dipertimbangkan untuk merawat pesakit COVID-19, Dr Noor Hisham berkata, perkara berkenaan masih dalam penelitian.

"Insya-Allah, ada yang kita sudah benarkan penggunaan secara off label, tetapi dengan pemantauan rapi petugas hospital," katanya.


Pada awal bulan lalu, KKM dan Institut Penyelidikan Klinikal (ICR) memulakan ujian klinikal bagi mengkaji kesan penggunaan serta keberkesanan Ivermectin untuk pesakit COVID-19 yang berisiko tinggi di 12 hospital di bawah kementerian itu.

Dr Noor Hisham sebelum ini menjelaskan, setakat ini Pertubuhan Kesihatan Sedunia (WHO) membenarkan Ivermectin sebagai rawatan COVID-19 dalam kajian atau percubaan klinikal saja.

Bagaimanapun, keengganan KKM menggunakan Ivermectin mengundang ketidakpuasan hati ramai, termasuk doktor pakar dan persatuan pengguna.
*
wait, did he not also say that the ivermectin was prescribed only for the clinical trial?
SUSslimey
post Jul 11 2021, 09:03 AM


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QUOTE(lowya @ Jul 11 2021, 08:45 AM)
The Lancet peer reviewed study confirms vaccine efficacy, not at 95%, but as:

* Astra Zeneca 1.3%
* Moderna 1.2%
* J&J 1.2%
* Pfizer 0.84%

They deceived everyone by reporting Relative Risk Reduction (RRR) rather than Absolute Risk Reduction (ARR)
https://www.thelancet.com/action/showPdf?pi...%2821%2900069-0

https://twitter.com/MindshockPod/status/1414007190898229250
*
“Let’s say a study enrolled 20,000 patients into the control group and 20,000 in the vaccine group. In that study, 200 people in the control group got sick and 0 people in the vaccine group got sick. Even though the vaccine efficacy would be a whopping 100%, the ARR would show that vaccines reduce the absolute risk by just 1% (200/20,000= 1%). For the ARR to increase to 20% in our example study with a vaccine with 100% efficacy, 4,000 of the 20,000 people in the control group would have to get sick (4,000/20,000= 20%).”

see the issue with ARR?
SUSlowya
post Jul 11 2021, 09:25 AM

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QUOTE(slimey @ Jul 11 2021, 09:03 AM)
“Let’s say a study enrolled 20,000 patients into the control group and 20,000 in the vaccine group. In that study, 200 people in the control group got sick and 0 people in the vaccine group got sick. Even though the vaccine efficacy would be a whopping 100%, the ARR would show that vaccines reduce the absolute risk by just 1% (200/20,000= 1%). For the ARR to increase to 20% in our example study with a vaccine with 100% efficacy, 4,000 of the 20,000 people in the control group would have to get sick (4,000/20,000= 20%).”

see the issue with ARR?
*
the real issue is Vit D is likely to beat that ARR of vax of merely 1% out of it's living daylight. 20k subject is not even enough to represent human genome, worse to use RRR for marketing to 3 years olds.

do u know what is <1% ARR called? placeabo. Almost do nothing to reduce your risk, except maybe increase it as we found out later on:



how many times u want me to explain this? Please don't reply me, i don't want to waste more time on people that don't matter to me.
SUSlowya
post Jul 11 2021, 09:33 AM

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QUOTE(gogo2 @ Jul 11 2021, 08:58 AM)
Is all other vaccine (non-covid19) using ARR or RRR? What is flu vaccine ARR?

If flu vaccine ARR same as Covid-19 vaccine ARR, what will be the conclusion?
*
PRE-COVID and pre-MRNA time, flu shots in US has already been proven futile. Given mRNA technology is very unstable, would it be wise for a doctor to prescribe it to his "patients" who are not even sick?

getting positive in covid test means yr body has recognized the virus, it doesn't mean you are sick. But if u want to change the definition of sickness to pursue your agenda, obviously media will hey why not that's another profit for us when we got your attention, and the vicious cycle of fear churning more fearful decision goes on and on endlessly until the system wears off and soon u realized it one that this is all how virus works in our immune system in the evolution cycle, those control freaks are the real source of your Misérables.
sakuraba
post Jul 11 2021, 09:39 AM

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b4 puak2 yang suggest ivermecin habis kena ludah by doctor nurse in socmed. now jilat ..

it shows malaysia jilat is bnyak
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post Jul 11 2021, 09:42 AM


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QUOTE(lowya @ Jul 11 2021, 09:25 AM)
the real issue is Vit D is likely to beat that ARR of vax of merely 1% out of it's living daylight. 20k subject is not even enough to represent human genome, worse to use RRR for marketing to 3 years olds.

do u know what is <1% ARR called? placeabo. Almost do nothing to reduce your risk, except maybe increase it as we found out later on:



how many times u want me to explain this? Please don't reply me, i don't want to waste more time on people that don't matter to me.
*
it is just an example on how arr is calculated.

again you just bring in some words without supporting evidence.............tin kosong je
iGamer
post Jul 11 2021, 09:46 AM

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QUOTE(killdavid @ Jul 11 2021, 01:21 AM)
More prove humanity is just doing trial and error on everyone's life.
Take all claims with caution
*
U do realise science is about about trial and error right? U expect gawd to hand over the ultimate guidebook?

Every medicine we used had gone thru trial and error, they called it experiment, animal test trial, human test trial etc. blush.gif
diffyhelman2
post Jul 11 2021, 09:46 AM

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QUOTE(lowya @ Jul 11 2021, 09:33 AM)
PRE-COVID and pre-MRNA time, flu shots in US has already been proven futile. Given mRNA technology is very unstable, would it be wise for a doctor to prescribe it to his "patients" who are not even sick?

getting positive in covid test means yr body has recognized the virus, it doesn't mean you are sick. But if u want to change the definition of sickness to pursue your agenda, obviously media will hey why not that's another profit for us when we got your attention, and the vicious cycle of fear churning more fearful decision goes on and on endlessly until the system wears off and soon u realized it one that this is all how virus works in our immune system in the evolution cycle, those control freaks are the real source of your Misérables.
*
I was in US for ten years. Every winter the mass media and radio will mass advertise for “people to get their flu shots”. Mostly targeting the elderly. I never once took it. Every year only 50-60% take the flu shot. And US is one of the highest usage of flu vaccination shots in the world.

Here in Malaysia i dont think even 10% of the population ever take flu shot. Now suddenly govt is normalizing the idea of everyone must vaccinate or we can’t open up.

user posted image
user posted image
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post Jul 11 2021, 09:48 AM

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QUOTE(sakuraba @ Jul 11 2021, 09:39 AM)
b4 puak2 yang suggest ivermecin habis kena ludah by doctor nurse in socmed. now jilat ..

it shows malaysia jilat is bnyak
*
gov is their brain in the lack of brain.
shirohamada
post Jul 11 2021, 09:48 AM

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post Jul 11 2021, 09:50 AM

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QUOTE(iGamer @ Jul 11 2021, 09:46 AM)
U do realise science is about about trial and error right? U expect gawd to hand over the ultimate guidebook?

Every medicine we used had gone thru trial and error, they called it experiment, animal test trial, human test trial etc. blush.gif
*
You jangan persoal messiahword.
Got messiah in nickname.
Cookie101
post Jul 11 2021, 09:51 AM

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QUOTE(bereev @ Jul 11 2021, 08:55 AM)
kalau bagi makan lepas tu ada kesan sampingan dan mati pun marah kkm juga.

bagi makan nanti apa apa kkm kena , tak bagi makan pun kena marah lambat
*
Janji can putar for atensi.
SUSlowya
post Jul 11 2021, 09:52 AM

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QUOTE(diffyhelman2 @ Jul 11 2021, 09:46 AM)
I was in US for ten years. Every winter the mass media and radio will mass advertise for “people to get their flu shots”. Mostly targeting the elderly. I never once took it. Every year only 50-60% take the flu shot. And US is one of the highest usage of flu vaccination shots in the world.

Here in Malaysia i dont think even 10% of the population ever take flu shot. Now suddenly govt is normalizing the idea of everyone must vaccinate or we can’t open up.

user posted image
user posted image
*
motives precede narratives; benefits precede motives

follow their motivations and benefits (money/power) to understand how the world works.
billyboy
post Jul 11 2021, 09:58 AM

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bodo.....pandai komen, tapi tak tahu baca

kalau bole baca, tak bole faham.....

kalau bole faham, maksud wang sudah poket...dari mana ?

https://covid19criticalcare.com/ivermectin-in-covid-19/

QUOTE(gogo2 @ Jul 11 2021, 08:29 AM)
That video sounded like conspiracy scam ler
Miracle drug sounds like scam ler
Betul ke? Mcm scam jer. Jgn2 kena tipu beb.
*
3rdEdition
post Jul 11 2021, 10:02 AM

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Finally. No need to take those vaccine.
Well done msia!
SUSlowya
post Jul 11 2021, 10:04 AM

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QUOTE(billyboy @ Jul 11 2021, 09:58 AM)
bodo.....pandai komen, tapi tak tahu baca

kalau bole baca, tak bole faham.....

kalau bole faham, maksud wang sudah poket...dari mana ?

https://covid19criticalcare.com/ivermectin-in-covid-19/
*
It concludes, “Moderate-certainty evidence finds that large reductions in COVID-19 deaths are possible using ivermectin. Using ivermectin early in the clinical course may reduce numbers progressing to severe disease. The apparent safety and low cost suggest that ivermectin is likely to have a significant impact on the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic globally.”

Ivermectin is a well-known, FDA-approved anti-parasite drug that has been used successfully for more than four decades to treat onchocerciasis “river blindness” and other parasitic diseases. It is one of the safest drugs known. It is on the WHO’s list of essential medicines, has been given 3.7 billion times around the globe, and has won the Nobel prize for its global and historic impacts in eradicating endemic parasitic infections in many parts of the world. Our medical discovery of a rapidly growing published medical evidence base, demonstrating ivermectin’s unique and highly potent ability to inhibit SARS-CoV-2 replication and to suppress inflammation, prompted our team to use ivermectin for prevention and treatment in all stages of COVID-19.

https://covid19criticalcare.com/ivermectin-in-covid-19/

low cost = no songlap opportunities

ShadowR1
post Jul 11 2021, 10:11 AM

Im still HeRe ...
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Take dy then we can officially kuda ?
billyboy
post Jul 11 2021, 10:13 AM

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songlap = big money

Pfizer quite experience.....can get penalty more than USD3bn....(yes, billion).....


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https://violationtracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/pfizer


QUOTE(lowya @ Jul 11 2021, 10:04 AM)
It concludes, “Moderate-certainty evidence finds that large reductions in COVID-19 deaths are possible using ivermectin. Using ivermectin early in the clinical course may reduce numbers progressing to severe disease. The apparent safety and low cost suggest that ivermectin is likely to have a significant impact on the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic globally.”

Ivermectin is a well-known, FDA-approved anti-parasite drug that has been used successfully for more than four decades to treat onchocerciasis “river blindness” and other parasitic diseases. It is one of the safest drugs known. It is on the WHO’s list of essential medicines, has been given 3.7 billion times around the globe, and has won the Nobel prize for its global and historic impacts in eradicating endemic parasitic infections in many parts of the world. Our medical discovery of a rapidly growing published medical evidence base, demonstrating ivermectin’s unique and highly potent ability to inhibit SARS-CoV-2 replication and to suppress inflammation, prompted our team to use ivermectin for prevention and treatment in all stages of COVID-19.

https://covid19criticalcare.com/ivermectin-in-covid-19/

low cost = no songlap opportunities
*
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post Jul 11 2021, 10:17 AM

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QUOTE(lowya @ Jul 11 2021, 09:33 AM)
PRE-COVID and pre-MRNA time, flu shots in US has already been proven futile. Given mRNA technology is very unstable, would it be wise for a doctor to prescribe it to his "patients" who are not even sick?

getting positive in covid test means yr body has recognized the virus, it doesn't mean you are sick. But if u want to change the definition of sickness to pursue your agenda, obviously media will hey why not that's another profit for us when we got your attention, and the vicious cycle of fear churning more fearful decision goes on and on endlessly until the system wears off and soon u realized it one that this is all how virus works in our immune system in the evolution cycle, those control freaks are the real source of your Misérables.
*
since flu vaccine able to prevent all out flu pandemic, I think those numbers are fine.

Please vaccine yourself to help achieve herd immunity
SUSMr. WongSF
post Jul 11 2021, 10:54 AM

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QUOTE(Fanvil1534 @ Jul 11 2021, 03:11 AM)
That's why in India deaths going down drastically after the media scare of 400k+ cases per day despite only 5% vaccinated.
*
Might as well ask them to test Fluvoxamine side by side. Time is of the essence.
aspartame
post Jul 11 2021, 10:55 AM

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QUOTE(lowya @ Jul 11 2021, 08:45 AM)
The Lancet peer reviewed study confirms vaccine efficacy, not at 95%, but as:

* Astra Zeneca 1.3%
* Moderna 1.2%
* J&J 1.2%
* Pfizer 0.84%

They deceived everyone by reporting Relative Risk Reduction (RRR) rather than Absolute Risk Reduction (ARR)
https://www.thelancet.com/action/showPdf?pi...%2821%2900069-0

https://twitter.com/MindshockPod/status/1414007190898229250
*
If AZ ARR is just 1.3%... how do you explain drastic drop in number of deaths in UK despite surging cases? The only explanation is that the vaccine AZ works...right?
Darkripper
post Jul 11 2021, 10:55 AM

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suddenly so many dogtor in /k/
killdavid
post Jul 11 2021, 11:06 AM

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QUOTE(iGamer @ Jul 11 2021, 09:46 AM)
U do realise science is about about trial and error right? U expect gawd to hand over the ultimate guidebook?

Every medicine we used had gone thru trial and error, they called it experiment, animal test trial, human test trial etc. blush.gif
*
I hope you can tell the difference between controlled clinical trials from side effects reported after approval release .
Did they disclosed risk of congenital heart failure during initial vaccine release or after?
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post Jul 11 2021, 11:10 AM

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QUOTE(Darkripper @ Jul 11 2021, 10:55 AM)
suddenly so many dogtor in /k/
*

dogtor YT n fB. later tiktoktor. laugh.gif
bongah
post Jul 11 2021, 11:11 AM

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QUOTE(Boy96 @ Jul 11 2021, 01:03 AM)


KUALA LUMPUR: Kementerian Kesihatan (KKM) tidak menolak kemungkinan meluluskan penggunaan Ivermectin bagi merawat pesakit COVID-19 jika terdapat bukti kukuh menjelaskan keberkesanan dan kesan sampingannya.

Ketua Pengarah Kesihatan, Tan Sri Dr Noor Hisham Abdullah, berkata KKM ketika ini hanya membenarkan penggunaan Ivermectin secara 'off label' (ubat di luar indikasi tertera dalam label dan belum atau di luar persetujuan badan atau lembaga bertanggungjawab) sehingga kajian menyeluruh dijalankan.
"Sekarang ini kita boleh gunakan Ivermectin dalam negara dan Bahagian Regulatori Farmasi Negara (NPRA) sudah meluluskan penggunaan 'off label' seperti digunakan dulu untuk ubat anti malaria dan HIV.

"Penggunaannya tidak didaftarkan, tetapi dibenarkan sehingga kita ada bukti kukuh," katanya ketika diundang sebagai panel program The Nation, bertajuk 'COVID-19: Apa Lagi Ikhtiar Kita' yang disiarkan secara langsung menerusi BERNAMA TV malam tadi.
Ivermectin adalah sejenis ubat antiparasit diluluskan Pentadbiran Makanan dan Ubat-Ubatan (FDA) yang digunakan secara meluas bagi rawatan beberapa penyakit tropika terabai, termasuk onchocerciasis, strongyloidiasis dan helminthiases.

Mengulas lanjut, Dr Noor Hisham berkata, KKM juga giat menjalankan kajian untuk mengenal pasti keberkesanan dan kesan sampingannya bagi pesakit COVID-19 kategori tiga, empat dan lima.

"Ivermectin adalah ubat antiparasit yang dikenal pasti dari tahun 70-an dan ia ada kesan antiviral. Saya sendiri sekitar empat tahun lalu mengesyorkan penggunaannya untuk (merawat) denggi.

"Saya kemukakan cadangan ini kerana Ivermectin ada kesan antiviral. Kita sudah menjalankan kajian di Thailand dan kajian permulaan menunjukkan untuk mendapatkan kesan antiviral ini, dosnya amat tinggi," katanya.

Beliau menjelaskan, terdapat kesan sampingan Ivermectin yang tidak dimaklumkan, antaranya Ataxia atau masalah keseimbangan, sawan dan seumpamanya.

Mengulas kemungkinan ubat itu akan dipertimbangkan untuk merawat pesakit COVID-19, Dr Noor Hisham berkata, perkara berkenaan masih dalam penelitian.

"Insya-Allah, ada yang kita sudah benarkan penggunaan secara off label, tetapi dengan pemantauan rapi petugas hospital," katanya.


Pada awal bulan lalu, KKM dan Institut Penyelidikan Klinikal (ICR) memulakan ujian klinikal bagi mengkaji kesan penggunaan serta keberkesanan Ivermectin untuk pesakit COVID-19 yang berisiko tinggi di 12 hospital di bawah kementerian itu.

Dr Noor Hisham sebelum ini menjelaskan, setakat ini Pertubuhan Kesihatan Sedunia (WHO) membenarkan Ivermectin sebagai rawatan COVID-19 dalam kajian atau percubaan klinikal saja.

Bagaimanapun, keengganan KKM menggunakan Ivermectin mengundang ketidakpuasan hati ramai, termasuk doktor pakar dan persatuan pengguna.
*
bodoh. dah lambat

danieln
post Jul 11 2021, 11:12 AM

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off label means what?
Fantasia
post Jul 11 2021, 11:15 AM

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QUOTE(danieln @ Jul 11 2021, 11:12 AM)
off label means what?
*
It meant it is used for purpose other than its original intention.
zerorating
post Jul 11 2021, 11:33 AM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Jul 11 2021, 07:56 AM)
Many studies included were not peer reviewed and a wide range of doses were evaluated.

Lol
*
10 people write the same paper not peer reviewed meh?
desmond2020
post Jul 11 2021, 11:34 AM

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QUOTE(zerorating @ Jul 11 2021, 11:33 AM)
10 people write the same paper not peer reviewed meh?
*
even one thousand name on it, it is still not peer reviewed

do you even science bro?
desmond2020
post Jul 11 2021, 11:37 AM

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QUOTE(lowya @ Jul 11 2021, 10:04 AM)
It concludes, “Moderate-certainty evidence finds that large reductions in COVID-19 deaths are possible using ivermectin. Using ivermectin early in the clinical course may reduce numbers progressing to severe disease. The apparent safety and low cost suggest that ivermectin is likely to have a significant impact on the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic globally.”

Ivermectin is a well-known, FDA-approved anti-parasite drug that has been used successfully for more than four decades to treat onchocerciasis “river blindness” and other parasitic diseases. It is one of the safest drugs known. It is on the WHO’s list of essential medicines, has been given 3.7 billion times around the globe, and has won the Nobel prize for its global and historic impacts in eradicating endemic parasitic infections in many parts of the world. Our medical discovery of a rapidly growing published medical evidence base, demonstrating ivermectin’s unique and highly potent ability to inhibit SARS-CoV-2 replication and to suppress inflammation, prompted our team to use ivermectin for prevention and treatment in all stages of COVID-19.

https://covid19criticalcare.com/ivermectin-in-covid-19/

low cost = no songlap opportunities
*
who says?

many scalpers now lurking around trying to sell ivermectin at 100x inflated price

big business here

that is why so many ivermectin tered flying around
zerorating
post Jul 11 2021, 11:44 AM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Jul 11 2021, 11:34 AM)
even one thousand name on it, it is still not peer reviewed

do you even science bro?
*
then whats the definition of 'peer' here?. In IT changes request, before we submit for approval, our change request need to reviewed by peer once and those peer can be someone who sit beside you or even your underling.
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post Jul 11 2021, 11:46 AM

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QUOTE(aspartame @ Jul 11 2021, 10:55 AM)
If AZ ARR is just 1.3%... how do you explain drastic drop in number of deaths in UK despite surging cases? The only explanation is that the vaccine AZ works...right?
*
you can explain whichever way u like, you can even say u prayed therefore god healed you too, why not? it doesn't matter to me how you want explain, as long as it pleases you right?
SUSlowya
post Jul 11 2021, 11:48 AM

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QUOTE(danieln @ Jul 11 2021, 11:12 AM)
off label means what?
*
repurposed generic drugs has no profits to be made, such as HCQ use for malaria, Ivermectine used for parasites, and Metformin for diabestes.

they all have many repurposed stories that big pharma don't want you to know.
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post Jul 11 2021, 11:51 AM

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QUOTE(lowya @ Jul 11 2021, 11:46 AM)
you can explain whichever way u like, you can even say u prayed therefore god healed you too, why not? it doesn't matter to me how you want explain, as long as it pleases you right?
*
Lol.. it seems like you cannot explain why UK death rate so low despite surging Covid cases... as I said, the logical explanation is vaccines work....even in the US, the cases dropped straight down after vaccination ...there is no question that vaccine efficacy is more than 1.5%
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post Jul 11 2021, 11:54 AM

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QUOTE(aspartame @ Jul 11 2021, 11:51 AM)
Lol.. it seems like you cannot explain why UK death rate so low despite surging Covid cases... as I said, the logical explanation is vaccines work....even in the US, the cases dropped straight down after vaccination ...there is no question that vaccine efficacy is more than 1.5%
*
But then uk and us does not use majority of inactivated virus based vaccine, then again, thats another topic altogether
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post Jul 11 2021, 11:57 AM

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QUOTE(aspartame @ Jul 11 2021, 11:51 AM)
Lol.. it seems like you cannot explain why UK death rate so low despite surging Covid cases... as I said, the logical explanation is vaccines work....even in the US, the cases dropped straight down after vaccination ...there is no question that vaccine efficacy is more than 1.5%
*
because i do not argue with the incorrigibles biggrin.gif
tipuism
post Jul 11 2021, 11:58 AM

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QUOTE(Boy96 @ Jul 11 2021, 01:03 AM)


KUALA LUMPUR: Kementerian Kesihatan (KKM) tidak menolak kemungkinan meluluskan penggunaan Ivermectin bagi merawat pesakit COVID-19 jika terdapat bukti kukuh menjelaskan keberkesanan dan kesan sampingannya.

Ketua Pengarah Kesihatan, Tan Sri Dr Noor Hisham Abdullah, berkata KKM ketika ini hanya membenarkan penggunaan Ivermectin secara 'off label' (ubat di luar indikasi tertera dalam label dan belum atau di luar persetujuan badan atau lembaga bertanggungjawab) sehingga kajian menyeluruh dijalankan.
"Sekarang ini kita boleh gunakan Ivermectin dalam negara dan Bahagian Regulatori Farmasi Negara (NPRA) sudah meluluskan penggunaan 'off label' seperti digunakan dulu untuk ubat anti malaria dan HIV.

"Penggunaannya tidak didaftarkan, tetapi dibenarkan sehingga kita ada bukti kukuh," katanya ketika diundang sebagai panel program The Nation, bertajuk 'COVID-19: Apa Lagi Ikhtiar Kita' yang disiarkan secara langsung menerusi BERNAMA TV malam tadi.
Ivermectin adalah sejenis ubat antiparasit diluluskan Pentadbiran Makanan dan Ubat-Ubatan (FDA) yang digunakan secara meluas bagi rawatan beberapa penyakit tropika terabai, termasuk onchocerciasis, strongyloidiasis dan helminthiases.

Mengulas lanjut, Dr Noor Hisham berkata, KKM juga giat menjalankan kajian untuk mengenal pasti keberkesanan dan kesan sampingannya bagi pesakit COVID-19 kategori tiga, empat dan lima.

"Ivermectin adalah ubat antiparasit yang dikenal pasti dari tahun 70-an dan ia ada kesan antiviral. Saya sendiri sekitar empat tahun lalu mengesyorkan penggunaannya untuk (merawat) denggi.

"Saya kemukakan cadangan ini kerana Ivermectin ada kesan antiviral. Kita sudah menjalankan kajian di Thailand dan kajian permulaan menunjukkan untuk mendapatkan kesan antiviral ini, dosnya amat tinggi," katanya.

Beliau menjelaskan, terdapat kesan sampingan Ivermectin yang tidak dimaklumkan, antaranya Ataxia atau masalah keseimbangan, sawan dan seumpamanya.

Mengulas kemungkinan ubat itu akan dipertimbangkan untuk merawat pesakit COVID-19, Dr Noor Hisham berkata, perkara berkenaan masih dalam penelitian.

"Insya-Allah, ada yang kita sudah benarkan penggunaan secara off label, tetapi dengan pemantauan rapi petugas hospital," katanya.


Pada awal bulan lalu, KKM dan Institut Penyelidikan Klinikal (ICR) memulakan ujian klinikal bagi mengkaji kesan penggunaan serta keberkesanan Ivermectin untuk pesakit COVID-19 yang berisiko tinggi di 12 hospital di bawah kementerian itu.

Dr Noor Hisham sebelum ini menjelaskan, setakat ini Pertubuhan Kesihatan Sedunia (WHO) membenarkan Ivermectin sebagai rawatan COVID-19 dalam kajian atau percubaan klinikal saja.

Bagaimanapun, keengganan KKM menggunakan Ivermectin mengundang ketidakpuasan hati ramai, termasuk doktor pakar dan persatuan pengguna.
*
https://www.thestar.com.my/news/true-or-not...hmichI.whatsapp




ju146
post Jul 11 2021, 11:58 AM

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talk like no talk..

it simply means if other kuasa besar country use then we use lor
Ayammachiamboss
post Jul 11 2021, 12:01 PM

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QUOTE(lowya @ Jul 11 2021, 08:39 AM)
ofcause debunk by the manufacturer lah.. u think they will let u get in the way of their fortunes?
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Agree with you. I find it funny when people claim this and that has been confirmed by the manufacturer, or WHO, or FDA or scientists. They forget how easy it is to buy someone out.
SUShaswell88
post Jul 11 2021, 12:01 PM

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if true, dr rafidah is a disgrace.but she really satu disgrace
viktorherald
post Jul 11 2021, 12:02 PM

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QUOTE(zerorating @ Jul 11 2021, 11:44 AM)
then whats the definition of 'peer' here?. In IT changes request, before  we submit for approval, our change request need to reviewed by peer once and those peer can be someone who sit beside you or even your underling.
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by groups who have the knowledge to understand the research, but not involved in conducting the research at all
SUSlowya
post Jul 11 2021, 12:04 PM

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QUOTE(Ayammachiamboss @ Jul 11 2021, 12:01 PM)
Agree with you. I find it funny when people claim this and that has been confirmed by the manufacturer, or WHO, or FDA or scientists. They forget how easy it is to buy someone out.
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their appeal to authority is a fruit of decades of indoctrination teachings.
ieatchickens
post Jul 11 2021, 12:04 PM

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QUOTE(gogo2 @ Jul 11 2021, 01:58 AM)
So you are one of the antivax ya. Didn't register for vaccine at all?
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i reg'd last week or 2. Too busy w/ carddio & weights since oct, pandemic just so coincided with me self-curing my carp tunn and idiopathic haemmo'dal sciatica. I couldn't take the vacc coz i was cytokine storming bro, i realy dont mind it.
ieatchickens
post Jul 11 2021, 12:04 PM

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QUOTE(gogo2 @ Jul 11 2021, 01:58 AM)
So you are one of the antivax ya. Didn't register for vaccine at all?
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i reg'd last week or 2. Too busy w/ carddio & weights since oct, pandemic just so coincided with me self-curing my carp tunn and idiopathic haemmo'dal sciatica. I couldn't take the vacc coz i was cytokine storming bro, i realy dont mind it.
desmond2020
post Jul 11 2021, 12:15 PM

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QUOTE(zerorating @ Jul 11 2021, 11:44 AM)
then whats the definition of 'peer' here?. In IT changes request, before  we submit for approval, our change request need to reviewed by peer once and those peer can be someone who sit beside you or even your underling.
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Scholarly peer review (also known as refereeing) is the process of subjecting an author's scholarly work, research, or ideas to the scrutiny of others who are experts in the same field, before a paper describing this work is published in a journal, conference proceedings or as a book. The peer review helps the publisher (that is, the editor-in-chief, the editorial board or the program committee) decide whether the work should be accepted, considered acceptable with revisions, or rejected.

Peer review requires a community of experts in a given (and often narrowly defined) field, who are qualified and able to perform reasonably impartial review. Impartial review, especially of work in less narrowly defined or inter-disciplinary fields, may be difficult to accomplish, and the significance (good or bad) of an idea may never be widely appreciated among its contemporaries. Peer review is generally considered necessary to academic quality and is used in most major scholarly journals. However, peer review does not entirely prevent publication of invalid research,[14] and as experimentally controlled studies of this process are difficult to arrange, direct evidence that peer review improves the quality of published papers is scarce.[15]

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zerorating
post Jul 11 2021, 12:16 PM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Jul 11 2021, 12:15 PM)
Scholarly peer review (also known as refereeing) is the process of subjecting an author's scholarly work, research, or ideas to the scrutiny of others who are experts in the same field, before a paper describing this work is published in a journal, conference proceedings or as a book. The peer review helps the publisher (that is, the editor-in-chief, the editorial board or the program committee) decide whether the work should be accepted, considered acceptable with revisions, or rejected.

Peer review requires a community of experts in a given (and often narrowly defined) field, who are qualified and able to perform reasonably impartial review. Impartial review, especially of work in less narrowly defined or inter-disciplinary fields, may be difficult to accomplish, and the significance (good or bad) of an idea may never be widely appreciated among its contemporaries. Peer review is generally considered necessary to academic quality and is used in most major scholarly journals. However, peer review does not entirely prevent publication of invalid research,[14] and as experimentally controlled studies of this process are difficult to arrange, direct evidence that peer review improves the quality of published papers is scarce.[15]

laugh.gif
*
okay boss
aspartame
post Jul 11 2021, 02:58 PM

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QUOTE(lowya @ Jul 11 2021, 11:57 AM)
because i do not argue with the incorrigibles  biggrin.gif
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Point taken🥳
aspartame
post Jul 11 2021, 02:59 PM

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QUOTE(Boy96 @ Jul 11 2021, 11:54 AM)
But then uk and us does not use majority of inactivated virus based vaccine, then again, thats another topic altogether
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That’s really another topic for another day that will be never ending 😅
cranx
post Jul 11 2021, 03:57 PM

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Hospitals can no longer cope with the patients, doctors forced to play God?
This piece of news is great as it is no longer a CRIME for doctors to administer this drug.

Just make sure to give credit where it is due when patients successfully recovered from the treatment. smile.gif

JohnL77
post Jul 11 2021, 07:17 PM

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QUOTE(slimey @ Jul 11 2021, 09:03 AM)
“Let’s say a study enrolled 20,000 patients into the control group and 20,000 in the vaccine group. In that study, 200 people in the control group got sick and 0 people in the vaccine group got sick. Even though the vaccine efficacy would be a whopping 100%, the ARR would show that vaccines reduce the absolute risk by just 1% (200/20,000= 1%). For the ARR to increase to 20% in our example study with a vaccine with 100% efficacy, 4,000 of the 20,000 people in the control group would have to get sick (4,000/20,000= 20%).”

see the issue with ARR?
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I see an issue with how "deadly" this virus is.
fadzly
post Jul 11 2021, 07:18 PM

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MAY use if

at least they will reduce the antivax push movement.

but public may started to increase search for it.
JohnL77
post Jul 11 2021, 07:27 PM

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QUOTE(aspartame @ Jul 11 2021, 10:55 AM)
If AZ ARR is just 1.3%... how do you explain drastic drop in number of deaths in UK despite surging cases? The only explanation is that the vaccine AZ works...right?
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Big part of it is because a lot of the vulnerable people who would have died from covid already died from covid.

US antibody testing based on commercial laboratory testing shows that about 22% of their population already infected. https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#national-lab

If it's based on blood donor antibody testing, about 33% already infected. https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#n...-seroprevalence

US and UK have about the same covid deaths per capita (almost 1,900 covid deaths per million people) so I think it's safe to assume that the percentage of UK population already infected with covid is about the same as the USA.


In the USA only about 50% have been fully vaccinated. If plus the 22% to 33% already infected people, then up to 80% of their population already have immunity. If we assume half of the already infected people also took the vaccines, then at least 60% to 75% of their population already have immunity.

This post has been edited by JohnL77: Jul 11 2021, 07:35 PM
aspartame
post Jul 11 2021, 08:40 PM

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QUOTE(JohnL77 @ Jul 11 2021, 07:27 PM)
Big part of it is because a lot of the vulnerable people who would have died from covid already died from covid.

US antibody testing based on commercial laboratory testing shows that about 22% of their population already infected. https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#national-lab

If it's based on blood donor antibody testing, about 33% already infected. https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#n...-seroprevalence

US and UK have about the same covid deaths per capita (almost 1,900 covid deaths per million people) so I think it's safe to assume that the percentage of UK population already infected with covid is about the same as the USA.
In the USA only about 50% have been fully vaccinated. If plus the 22% to 33% already infected people, then up to 80% of their population already have immunity. If we assume half of the already infected people also took the vaccines, then at least 60% to 75% of their population already have immunity.
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Not really le... uk total infected 5mil/ total population 60mil or about 8% of population infected so far only
JohnL77
post Jul 11 2021, 08:45 PM

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QUOTE(aspartame @ Jul 11 2021, 08:40 PM)
Not really le... uk total infected 5mil/ total population 60mil or about 8% of population infected so far only
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PCR vs antibody tests.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/seroprevalence

QUOTE
the frequency of individuals in a population that have a particular element (such as antibodies to HIV) in their blood serum.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seroprevalence

QUOTE
Seroprevalence is the number of persons in a population who test positive for a specific disease based on serology (blood serum) specimens; often presented as a percent of the total specimens tested or as a proportion per 100,000 persons tested. As positively identifying the occurrence of disease is usually based upon the presence of antibodies for that disease (especially with viral infections such as herpes simplex, HIV, and SARS-CoV-2), this number is not significant if the specificity of the antibody is low.


This post has been edited by JohnL77: Jul 11 2021, 08:47 PM
whoopa
post Jul 11 2021, 08:47 PM

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what does off label means?
can i go shopee n buy and eat
aspartame
post Jul 11 2021, 09:16 PM

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QUOTE(JohnL77 @ Jul 11 2021, 07:27 PM)
Big part of it is because a lot of the vulnerable people who would have died from covid already died from covid.

US antibody testing based on commercial laboratory testing shows that about 22% of their population already infected. https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#national-lab

If it's based on blood donor antibody testing, about 33% already infected. https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#n...-seroprevalence

US and UK have about the same covid deaths per capita (almost 1,900 covid deaths per million people) so I think it's safe to assume that the percentage of UK population already infected with covid is about the same as the USA.
In the USA only about 50% have been fully vaccinated. If plus the 22% to 33% already infected people, then up to 80% of their population already have immunity. If we assume half of the already infected people also took the vaccines, then at least 60% to 75% of their population already have immunity.
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QUOTE(JohnL77 @ Jul 11 2021, 08:45 PM)
Oh.. I didn’t grasp what you were trying to say.... so actually what you said was basically in line with what I said which was AZ vaccination was very effective in bringing down death rate or in your case you are saying vaccination and natural immunity acquired were responsible in bringing down the death rate...

So, both our observations correctly pointed out that the supposed ARR of AZ of 1.3% does not make sense
keyibukeyi
post Jul 11 2021, 09:21 PM

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Testing 1 2 12, mic check,.halo!!!!
6942nole
post Jul 11 2021, 11:52 PM

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QUOTE(cranx @ Jul 11 2021, 03:57 PM)
Hospitals can no longer cope with the patients, doctors forced to play God?
This piece of news is great as it is no longer a CRIME for doctors to administer this drug.

Just make sure to give credit where it is due when patients successfully recovered from the treatment.  smile.gif
*
is this ready available in our hospital?
human consumption one.


diffyhelman2
post Jul 12 2021, 12:06 AM

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QUOTE(aspartame @ Jul 11 2021, 10:55 AM)
If AZ ARR is just 1.3%... how do you explain drastic drop in number of deaths in UK despite surging cases? The only explanation is that the vaccine AZ works...right?
*
I think you are not getting the idea of ARR. ARR is dependent on the background risk of catching covid in the first place. For the lancet article, they had low ARR because during the time they were doing the trials the prevalence of Covid was not as high as during the second wave. you mention 5mil/60 mil population in the UK already infected with Sars2-covid. that is for the entire period since pandemic started in Mar 2020. ARR is always calculated base on a defined period (for eg the vaccine trial period).

If you can imagine that over a period of X years, you will have 100% chance of catching covid, then the vaccine ARR = RRR.

This is also why using ARR is problematic during an ongoing infectious pandemic cycle. ARR would be more appropriate if used during a steady state endemic level situation where the background risk is stable and constant. However during a pandemic, the force of the infection is dynamic, if its not well controlled by vaccines, SOP etc, the background risk would increase exponentially. The ironic thing is, the higher the background risk, the higher the ARR figures would be.

This post has been edited by diffyhelman2: Jul 12 2021, 12:08 AM
SUSslimey
post Jul 12 2021, 12:23 AM


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QUOTE(diffyhelman2 @ Jul 12 2021, 12:06 AM)
I think you are not getting the idea of ARR. ARR is dependent on the background risk of catching covid in the first place. For the lancet article, they had low ARR because during the time they were doing the trials the  prevalence of Covid was not as high as during the second wave. you mention 5mil/60 mil population in the UK already infected with Sars2-covid. that is for the entire period since pandemic started in Mar 2020. ARR is always calculated base on a defined period (for eg the vaccine trial period).

If you can imagine that over a period of X years, you will have 100% chance of catching covid, then the vaccine ARR = RRR.

This is also why using ARR is problematic during an ongoing infectious pandemic cycle. ARR would be more appropriate if used during a steady state endemic level situation where the background risk is stable and constant. However during a pandemic, the force of the infection is dynamic, if its not well controlled by vaccines, SOP etc, the background risk would increase exponentially. The ironic thing is, the higher the background risk, the higher the ARR figures would be.
*
exactly.

event rate multiply by time would be the real picture.


loon90
post Jul 12 2021, 12:23 AM

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Messenger oh messenger
aspartame
post Jul 12 2021, 07:30 AM

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QUOTE(diffyhelman2 @ Jul 12 2021, 12:06 AM)
I think you are not getting the idea of ARR. ARR is dependent on the background risk of catching covid in the first place. For the lancet article, they had low ARR because during the time they were doing the trials the  prevalence of Covid was not as high as during the second wave. you mention 5mil/60 mil population in the UK already infected with Sars2-covid. that is for the entire period since pandemic started in Mar 2020. ARR is always calculated base on a defined period (for eg the vaccine trial period).

If you can imagine that over a period of X years, you will have 100% chance of catching covid, then the vaccine ARR = RRR.

This is also why using ARR is problematic during an ongoing infectious pandemic cycle. ARR would be more appropriate if used during a steady state endemic level situation where the background risk is stable and constant. However during a pandemic, the force of the infection is dynamic, if its not well controlled by vaccines, SOP etc, the background risk would increase exponentially. The ironic thing is, the higher the background risk, the higher the ARR figures would be.
*
Oh.. thanks for detailed explanation .. I got a better idea of it now but all these medical things and statistics are confusing ...so, what is the article trying to say? Why did they bring up ARR then if ARR is only “accurate” during a steady state? So in a pandemic state, the stated RRR of higher figures like 90+% in Pfizer etc was accurate what... arggh ...anyway, my layman interpretation/observation was that vaccines were obviously very effective in UK now in bringing down death rate

On another note... if ARR is low, are you saying once this pandemic die down , we might not need vaccination anymore as the low ARR means there is not much added benefit?
cranx
post Jul 12 2021, 09:06 AM

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QUOTE(6942nole @ Jul 11 2021, 11:52 PM)
is this ready available in our hospital?
human consumption one.
*
Yes available. And it seems KPJ Ampang Puteri already start administering Ivermectin for awhile without waiting for corrupt messenger's approval.

https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...ost&p=101411512
StrikeQUAN
post Jul 12 2021, 09:19 AM

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mean on your own risk...
edmund_yung
post Jul 12 2021, 09:24 AM

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QUOTE(cranx @ Jul 12 2021, 09:06 AM)
Yes available. And it seems KPJ Ampang Puteri already start administering Ivermectin for awhile without waiting for corrupt messenger's approval.

https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...ost&p=101411512
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KKM denies the claim again.
https://twitter.com/KKMPutrajaya/status/1413722079149522944


https://www.thestar.com.my/news/true-or-not...-treat-covid-19

QUOTE
Health Ministry denies allowing use of Ivermectin to treat Covid-19

PETALING JAYA: The Health Ministry has denied a viral message claiming that they are allowing off-label usage of the anti-parasitic drug Ivermectin to treat Covid-19.

"The off-label use of Ivermectin to treat Covid-19 is only for clinical trials – not on the request of patients in hospital," it said in a Facebook post on Saturday (July 10).

cranx
post Jul 12 2021, 09:39 AM

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QUOTE(edmund_yung @ Jul 12 2021, 09:24 AM)
So doctors can continue to play God denying life saving medication to dying patients. Brilliant.

6942nole
post Jul 12 2021, 06:15 PM

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QUOTE(cranx @ Jul 12 2021, 09:06 AM)
Yes available. And it seems KPJ Ampang Puteri already start administering Ivermectin for awhile without waiting for corrupt messenger's approval.

https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...ost&p=101411512
*
thanks!

i armed myself some. these on power ppl tak boleh harap one. vmad.gif




and85rew
post Jul 12 2021, 07:20 PM

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If proven, kkm gotta eat humbe pie..
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post Aug 3 2021, 01:18 AM

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Kuala Lumpur: Kementerian Kesihatan Malaysia (KKM) akan menjalankan ujian klinikal ke atas 500 pesakit untuk menilai keberkesanan penggunaan Ivermectin.

Ketua Pengarah Kesihatan Tan Sri Dr Noor Hisham Abdullah berkata, objektif utamanya adalah untuk melihat sama ada ubat terbabit dapat merawat secara efektif pesakit yang berada pada tahap awal Covid-19 dan mencegah daripada beralih ke kategori empat atau lima.



"Kita juga akan melihat perbezaan dari segi jumlah kematian, pengudaraan mekanikal, jumlah berapa pesakit yang dirawat di Unit Rawatan Rapi (ICU) dan kesan di sebalik penggunaannya.


"Satu kumpulan akan menerima Ivermectin oral dengan dos 0.4 miligram (mg)/kilogram) (berdasarkan berat badan) setiap hari selama lima hari berturut-turut sementara kumpulan yang lain hanya akan mendapat rawatan biasa tanpa ubat terbabit," katanya kepada Harian Metro.

Dr Noor Hisham berkata, setakat ini 200 pesakit sudah sudah menjalani ujian klinikal terbabit dan menjangkakan 500 pesakit akan dicapai sehingga September ini.

"Adalah penting untuk tahu bahawa dos Ivermectin yang digunakan dalam ujian klinikal ini lebih tinggi dari dos dibenarkan untuk jangkitan parasit.

"Subjek kajian dipantau rapi oleh doktor berpengalaman sekiranya berlaku apa-apa dalam tempoh kajian klinikal terbabit," katanya.

Beliau berkata, kajian itu didaftarkan di clinicaltrials.gov dan pada sesiapa yang berminat boleh melihat dengan jelas mengenai protokol kajian bagi memastikan kajian telus dan untuk elakkan sebarang prejudis pada masa akan datang.

"Keberkesanan ubat ini di dalam proses rawatan Covid-19 mesti berdasarkan bukti saintifik dan bukan pandangan peribadi dan sentimen orang awam," katanya.

Selain daripada doktor dari jabatan penyakit berjangkit, seramai 140 orang terbabit dalam ujian klinikal ini terdiri daripada pakar perubatan, pegawai perubatan, ahli farmasi dan pegawai penyelidikan dari Pusat Kajian Klinikal (CRC) dari 18 hospital kerajaan.
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QUOTE(6942nole @ Jul 12 2021, 06:15 PM)
thanks!

i armed myself some. these on power ppl tak boleh harap one.  vmad.gif
*
Heal your lungs now or preserve your kidneys later?

Pick your poison.

Oh wai-

 

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