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> Military Thread V28

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jwst1313
post Oct 7 2021, 10:12 PM

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QUOTE(azriel @ Oct 7 2021, 12:34 PM)
Its all now depend on US Congress approval.
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Indonesia is Asean taiko economically and military.

The american should have smell something
darth5zaft
post Oct 7 2021, 10:21 PM

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QUOTE(jwst1313 @ Oct 7 2021, 10:12 PM)
Indonesia is Asean taiko economically and military.

The american should have smell something
*
I thought US only offered them F16
Then they go deal with France for Rafale.
Now US is considering selling the F15?





QUOTE(junkyman @ Oct 7 2021, 09:24 PM)
France !! Haha they are boneless spine !! Just a obedient Dog 🐶 infront of US. Btw Indon also getting Rafale too
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My guts feeling says it's one or the other.
Either F15 or Rafale

They are modernizing their military afterall, too many different types of jet wouldn't help them achieve that.

alexz23
post Oct 7 2021, 10:32 PM

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the technical side of me has always searching and looking at the latest technologies that can be fitted/implemented into.

For my alexLMS, although I have never said about this, I have been closely looking and studying about this technology since early this year. And I am amazed to see it included on this Damen concept.

user posted image
azriel
post Oct 7 2021, 10:33 PM

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QUOTE(darth5zaft @ Oct 7 2021, 10:21 PM)
I thought US only offered them F16
Then they go deal with France for Rafale.
Now US is considering selling the F15?
My guts feeling says it's one or the other.
Either F15 or Rafale

They are modernizing their military afterall, too many different types of jet wouldn't help them achieve that.
*
The plan is to buy both fighter jets. Indonesia ditched the plan to buy the F-16V and opted to buy the F-15EX.

QUOTE
Jakarta, CNN Indonesia -- The Indonesian Air Force (TNI) has begun to procure the main equipment for the new modern weapon system (alutsista) until 2024. The Chief of Staff of the Indonesian Air Force (KSAU). Marshal Fadjar Prasetyo stated that several defense equipment to be purchased include the F-15 EX multirole combat aircraft and the Dassault Rafale fighter jet.

"From these various efforts, now there have been clear signs. Starting from this year until 2024, we will soon realize the acquisition of various modern defense equipment in stages," Fadjar said in his official statement during a speech at the Indonesian Air Force Rapim at the Indonesian Air Force Headquarters, Cilangkap, Jakarta. East, Friday (19/2).

The F-15 EX fighter jet made by Boeing and Rafale has long been the target of Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto.


https://www.cnnindonesia.com/ekonomi/202102...-akan-dibeli-ri

This post has been edited by azriel: Oct 7 2021, 10:53 PM
junkyman
post Oct 7 2021, 10:40 PM

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QUOTE(azriel @ Oct 7 2021, 10:33 PM)
If really Indon get both type of Jets !! Would be a boost to their airforce. But logistic wise (maintenance) hmmm
azriel
post Oct 7 2021, 10:50 PM

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QUOTE(junkyman @ Oct 7 2021, 10:40 PM)
If really Indon get both type of Jets !! Would be a boost to their airforce. But logistic wise (maintenance) hmmm
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Yes the logistical wil be a challenge. Well Boeing recently posted a poster of its F-15EX congratulating TNI on its 76th Anniversary. Its up to the US Congress though whether to give the greenlight or not.

user posted image

This post has been edited by azriel: Oct 7 2021, 10:51 PM
darth5zaft
post Oct 7 2021, 10:51 PM

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QUOTE(alexz23 @ Oct 7 2021, 10:32 PM)
the technical side of me has always searching and looking at the latest technologies that can be fitted/implemented into.

For my alexLMS, although I have never said about this, I have been closely looking and studying about this technology since early this year. And I am amazed to see it included on this Damen concept.

user posted image
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Binatang apa tu?

Well the design were fairly new i guess. It's wasn't in their website 6 month ago if not mistaken

Kinda disappointed they didn't put the sea axe design upfront.

jwst1313
post Oct 7 2021, 10:57 PM

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QUOTE(junkyman @ Oct 7 2021, 10:40 PM)
If really Indon get both type of Jets !! Would be a boost to their airforce. But logistic wise (maintenance) hmmm
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Do not look down on Indonesia.

Not to praise but it is true that American made jets last very long compared to Russian made jets.

Our F18D hornet were aquired in 1996. All Still flying fighthing well

Mig29 was aquired around 2007 to 2009 but all in muzuem since 2017 or 2018 😉

This post has been edited by jwst1313: Oct 7 2021, 11:01 PM
alexz23
post Oct 7 2021, 11:09 PM

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QUOTE(jwst1313 @ Oct 7 2021, 10:57 PM)
Do not look down on Indonesia.

Not to praise but it is true that American made jets last very long compared to Russian made jets.

Tudm F18D hornet were aquired in 1996. All Still flying well

Mig29 was aquired around 2007 to 2009. Where are the MIG29 now?
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nobody is looking down on Indonesia.

countries like Qatar is buying rafales, typhoons and eagles all at the same time. but that is mostly to curry favour with the maker countries. and they have plenty of money that flows out of the ground anyway.

logistics wise, the potential troubles of a very rojak fleet is real.

on the migs.

we got them in 1994, not 2007.

they are not flying anymore is not because they are already expired. it is not flying anymore because we choose not to overhaul them. they have less than 2,000 flying hours each, and actually can be used for many more years. Why we chose not to overhaul and continue using them because the high operating costs does not tally with the capability of the migs. it is basically an interceptor, with a very rudimentary ground attack capability (dumb bombs and rockets), unlike the hornets and MKM, which are multi role. Which is why, our future LCA will be much more capable overall than our migs.

This post has been edited by alexz23: Oct 7 2021, 11:48 PM
junkyman
post Oct 7 2021, 11:09 PM

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QUOTE(jwst1313 @ Oct 7 2021, 10:57 PM)
Do not look down on Indonesia.

Not to praise but it is true that American made jets last very long compared to Russian made jets.

Our F18D hornet were aquired in 1996. All Still flying fighthing well

Mig29 was aquired around 2007 to 2009 but all in muzuem since 2017 or 2018 😉
*
No Underestimate Indon capacities !!!!!!!! Just envy they !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Indon these few years very active in modernizing their defence capabilities !!! Whereas Our Country - well Busy Politics !!
alexz23
post Oct 7 2021, 11:28 PM

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QUOTE(darth5zaft @ Oct 7 2021, 10:51 PM)
Binatang apa tu?

Well the design were fairly new i guess. It's wasn't in their website 6 month ago if not mistaken 

Kinda disappointed they didn't put the sea axe design upfront.
*
not going to say much about that thing for now, but it is currently one of a future game changer on vessel hull hydrodynamics.

actually that thing at the back would function better on an axe bow because the hull does not pitch up and down much.
.






anyway back on why not a sea axe bow on that corvette?

as with most things, there are advantage and disadvantage of any designs.

a normal bow is designed to ride above the waves. the hull will "plane" above the water at high speeds. disadvantage is that the pitch, up down motion of the bow is very pronounced.

the sea axe bow is designed to cut through the waves. pitching motion will be less on the way, creating a comfortable ride. but the design has a specific sweet spot for size and speed. anything above 60m the design is not very suitable for high speeds as the hull need to "cut" through the water, not "plane" above it. another disadvantage that many people does not like is that because it cuts through the waves, the ship at high speeds is very "wet" with all the heavy water spray created by the bow cutting through the waves. but in my opinion that is an advantage for small fast ship that is going to do FAC stuff. As the heavy water spray the axe bow creates will mask the true infrared signature of the ship, making using chaff flares to lure Imaging infrared sensor anti ship missiles much more effective.

This post has been edited by alexz23: Oct 7 2021, 11:36 PM
darth5zaft
post Oct 8 2021, 01:00 AM

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QUOTE(junkyman @ Oct 7 2021, 11:09 PM)
No Underestimate Indon capacities !!!!!!!! Just envy they !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Indon these few years very active in modernizing their defence capabilities !!! Whereas Our Country - well Busy Politics !!
*
Well, don't overestimated them then 😉

While our politikus are disinterest their politicians give impression that's they going to get everything under the sun. Doubt they going to get 30ffm on top of fremm nor Rafale on top of f15. It would likely be one or the other, rather than both.

If our politikus do the same thing, they would say we going to buy the fassmer on top of Damen on top of swiftship or we going to get yak130 on top of m346 on top of T7 on so on and on.

They also hasn't finalized funding which requires their gov to take a long term debt on top of increasing defense spending while our RMK12 had just been approved by parliment. No debt financing nor increase in defense spending required. Officially approved acquisition for us in the next 5 years is as per H20

Fighter Lead=In Trainer (FLIT) – Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MRCA), Maritime Patrol Aircraft (MPA), Long Range Air Defence Radar, Medium-Range Air Defence Missile System (MERAD), Medium Altitude Long Endurance Unmanned Aerial System (MALE-UAS) dan Helikopter Utiliti, LMS, MRSS.

https://defencesecurityasia.com/lapan-buah-...-mrss-dan-ngpv/


Not to mention DWP had specified acquisition for the next 10 years, while CG, RMN & AF has a plan until 2040/2050/2055. So with most of the things to acquired and the timeline of acquisition already made public, what else can our politikus talk about?

The fact it's public knowledge and them politikus has no power to acquired new stuff in out of thin air nor took stuff out or change timelines also kinda explain their disinterest in talking about it. Not to mention the public mode is for them politikus to stay out of military affairs.

So there's really nothing to be jelous about. it's good that they are increasing their defense priorities but it's not like we are taking defense lightly.
darth5zaft
post Oct 8 2021, 01:14 AM

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QUOTE(alexz23 @ Oct 7 2021, 11:28 PM)
not going to say much about that thing for now, but it is currently one of a future game changer on vessel hull hydrodynamics.

actually that thing at the back would function better on an axe bow because the hull does not pitch up and down much.
.
anyway back on why not a sea axe bow on that corvette?

as with most things, there are advantage and disadvantage of any designs.

a normal bow is designed to ride above the waves. the hull will "plane" above the water at high speeds. disadvantage is that the pitch, up down motion of the bow is very pronounced.

the sea axe bow is designed to cut through the waves. pitching motion will be less on the way, creating a comfortable ride. but the design has a specific sweet spot for size and speed. anything above 60m the design is not very suitable for high speeds as the hull need to "cut" through the water, not "plane" above it. another disadvantage that many people does not like is that because it cuts through the waves, the ship at high speeds is very "wet" with all the heavy water spray created by the bow cutting through the waves. but in my opinion that is an advantage for small fast ship that is going to do FAC stuff. As the heavy water spray the axe bow creates will mask the true infrared signature of the ship, making using chaff flares to lure Imaging infrared sensor anti ship missiles much more effective.
*
Well this sigma 7311 design is by Damen standard a FAC depicted being at 1000 tons.

It probably more or less a militarized version of Stan patrol 6811. One of the 2 design that are reported being pitch by Damen for 2LMS.

azriel
post Oct 8 2021, 07:24 AM

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QUOTE
New video of the KF-21 Boramae, the future fighter developed in South Korea

Por GASTÓN DUBOIS - 07/10/2021

The KF-21 Boramae is the new fighter aircraft jointly developed by South Korea and Indonesia, whose rollout took place on April 9 this year.

Its first flight is scheduled for 2022, but while we wait, the manufacturing company (KAI) released a promotional video in which, through computerized images, shows what the aircraft will look like and what mission profiles it will have.



It should be remembered that, although it may not look like it, the KF-21 Boramae is an aircraft that in its present incarnation belongs to the 4.5 generation of fighters, similar to a Super Hornet or Rafale. It is a twin-engine with an expected top speed of 2,200 km/h, a range of 2,900 km and a combat load of up to 7.7 tons.

But it is a design intended from the outset to evolve. It will be produced in successive blocks, which will incorporate new capabilities, with more advanced materials and construction techniques, which will bring this aircraft to the same level as 5th generation aircraft such as the F-35 (considered the de facto standard in this category).

However, KAI recently announced that the KF-21 Boramae will evolve beyond the current 5 Gen fighters to incorporate features of the 6th generation fighters currently under development.

In the video, you can see one of these features being developed in different programs around the world, which KAI also plans to equip the Boramae with. It is the ability to work in a man-machine partnership with unmanned combat aircraft, or drones.

user posted image

The images show the KF-21 leading a formation of 3 unmanned aerial combat systems, whose stealth design is reminiscent of Russian company Mikoyan’s Skat project.

The drones will be commanded by the KF-21 pilot, who will designate targets and other aspects relevant to the mission, acting as an important force multiplier. These operations will demand the use of powerful Artificial Intelligence (AI), both in the unmanned systems and in the KF-21, a disruptive technology that the 6th generation fighters have incorporated since their conception.


https://www.aviacionline.com/2021/10/new-vi...in-south-korea/
Lampuajaib
post Oct 8 2021, 07:59 AM

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QUOTE(alexz23 @ Oct 7 2021, 10:32 PM)
the technical side of me has always searching and looking at the latest technologies that can be fitted/implemented into.

For my alexLMS, although I have never said about this, I have been closely looking and studying about this technology since early this year. And I am amazed to see it included on this Damen concept.

user posted image
*
Under the hull is stabilizer I think.
It is not new tech....it just an optional if needed
azriel
post Oct 8 2021, 08:03 AM

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QUOTE(darth5zaft @ Oct 8 2021, 01:00 AM)
Well, don't overestimated them then 😉

While our politikus are disinterest their politicians give impression that's they going to get everything under the sun. Doubt they going to get 30ffm  on top of fremm nor Rafale on top of f15. It would likely be one or the other, rather than both.
*
According to source the Indonesian MoD had submitted budget request for the F-15EX to the government. Contrary to initial report of buying 36 units the formal budget request is for 24 units F-15EX. Ofcourse at the end of the day its all depend on US Congress approval. Its a separate deal from the Rafale.

This post has been edited by azriel: Oct 8 2021, 08:05 AM
Lampuajaib
post Oct 8 2021, 08:23 AM

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QUOTE(darth5zaft @ Oct 8 2021, 01:00 AM)
Well, don't overestimated them then 😉

While our politikus are disinterest their politicians give impression that's they going to get everything under the sun. Doubt they going to get 30ffm  on top of fremm nor Rafale on top of f15. It would likely be one or the other, rather than both.
Probably both...
This is my calculation about ID navy and AF

ID navy need replacement for 6 van speijk class and 16 parchim class. Total of 22 units need to be replaced gradually.
Even if fremm and AH140 are ordered, they still need more than they already ordered.

For ID AF, they already retired F5 which replaced by SU35. But I think the deal will be canceled due to CAATSA.
IMO, the Rafale is set to replace their F5. The F15 is for their new squadron. ID has plan to have 10-11 Sq of fighter. Even their current F-16s are only a refurbished that need to be replace in 20 years. Rafale, F15, Boramae are still not enough to fill their 10-11 Sq.ID will be busy shopping gradually in the future.

This post has been edited by Lampuajaib: Oct 8 2021, 08:27 AM
azriel
post Oct 8 2021, 08:26 AM

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Indonesian PT Infoglobal proposed cockpit for the IF-X (KF-21 Boramae).

user posted image

user posted image




Lampuajaib
post Oct 8 2021, 08:51 AM

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This is ID long term modernization plan. Maybe it can give us something to think. Lets.focus on the amount of money.

QUOTE
ndonesia reveals USD125 billion military modernisation plan
by Jon Grevatt & Andrew MacDonald Jun 1, 2021, 11:12 AM

A draft regulation from Indonesia’s presidential office has outlined the requirement for investment of USD125 billion in military modernisation through to the mid-2040s....

A draft regulation from Indonesia’s presidential office has outlined the requirement for investment of USD125 billion in military modernisation through to the mid-2040s. The funding proposal is indicative of Indonesia’s military ambitions and its growing concerns about regional security.

The draft regulation – entitled ‘Fulfilling the Defence and Security Equipment Needs of the Ministry of Defence and Indonesian Armed Forces (TNI) 2020-24’ – was issued recently but requires various approvals from ministries and the House of Representatives before enactment. The investment plan also highlights Indonesia’s continuing dependency on foreign loans.

Indonesia has stated a requirement for funding worth USD125 billion in military investment through to the mid-2040s. The country’s modernisation requirements are thought to include Lockheed Martin F-16V fighter aircraft.  (Lockheed Martin)
Indonesia has stated a requirement for funding worth USD125 billion in military investment through to the mid-2040s. The country’s modernisation requirements are thought to include Lockheed Martin F-16V fighter aircraft. (Lockheed Martin)

The proposed regulation details the requirement for USD124.9 billion for TNI modernisation funding over a period of five ‘strategic plans’ each lasting five years. The first strategic plan runs 2020–24 and coincides with the final phase of the TNI’s Minimum Essential Force (MEF) programme, while the last will be 2040–44.

The document proposes funding of USD79 billion for defence equipment during this 25-year period, USD32.5 billion for sustainment, and the remaining USD13.4 billion for interest payments on foreign loans.

The regulation prioritises sourcing TNI modernisation requirements from local industry. However, it states, “In the event that domestic products cannot be [procured], then foreign products can be used.”

When defence equipment is imported, the regulation identifies the requirement to enforce “technology transfers and offsets” to support local industry’s involvement in the procurement. This industrial strategy also includes the provision of countertrade through which Indonesia seeks to export local commodities in part exchange for materiel.
azriel
post Oct 8 2021, 08:54 AM

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QUOTE(Lampuajaib @ Oct 8 2021, 08:51 AM)
This is ID long term modernization plan. Maybe it can give us something to think. Lets.focus on the amount of money.
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This next 2 years until 2024 we will see major weapons procurement by Indonesia. Lest see how it goes.

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