I think there is no problem discussing it here since the newer model spec almost the same... perhaps they also will faced the same problem as ours....

You miss my point. I'm saying that HP shafted their customers who bought the tx1000 series. And I believe even obm_nlh to a certain extent. But he can even go on talking about HP's new notebooks. Looks like he got no qualms buying from HP again. He's like saying to HP It's OK to sell a faulty product to customers We'll still buy from you. Huh... I dunno but from what I read thats what it looks like..... Even If obm_nlh didn't get the full brunt of the faulty tx1000s he should be more aware of HP's ethics and I dunno... I believe the right thing to do is to steer ppl away from HP. Instead he does the exact opposite.

Isn't this a bad example to set as what a customer should behave. If HP read this I bet it encourages them not to worry about quality even more.....

In fact I'd like to find out the fellas running HP right now and avoid companies that these ppl work for.



This post has been edited by yiks001: Feb 27 2009, 12:12 AM

Evolution dude.. evolution. 20 years ago Proton can't even make their own engine. Everything going through this process. No old, no new. No bug, no solution. This is a problem faced by all brand not just HP.

You can't pleased everyone do you?

Well, If someone sticks me in the back. I'll put more effort not to expose my back to the same person If I'm gonna stand a chance to evolve.

Don't you think so?

The thing is... that is person is your best bet to provide money for value. If other tablet maker company can beat HP sure we'll all run to them. But as for now.. no one, or you want to spend 5k+ for your tablet? Love it, or hate it.

Ok, this is more interesting. You mean to tell me even if HP sold you a faulty notebook. As long as they can provide a new notebook that's value for money ('spec wise') It's ok.?

So you buy a RM3000 notebook. And 1 year later it dies. And you know from various sources that it's due to faulty manufacturing. So you have to buy another Rm3000 notebook this time with better specs from same HP. So that makes it RM6000 for one usable so so notebook..... Is that value for money?? erm... that's more than 5k+ already...... true or not...??? Only value if you change your notebook every year or less.....

In hindsight. With HP's quality... It would have been better to spend 5k+ on another brand....after all you gonna spend RM6k plus if you go the HP way.



This post has been edited by yiks001: Feb 27 2009, 01:18 AM

Wow, dragged in the spotlight ..

I like to state the fact straight: I never condorn the usage of such tactics to sell product not up to its full standard quality. Being a TX user since it's first inception and knowing the usual heat problems from AMD CPUs, I normally used HP recommended settings to avoid future problems. Unluckily, the incident of Nvidia did happened to some of us, the TX1k users. That's a fact of life even with the odds against us, the users.

Nevertheless, you can also opt for the insurance package to protect your investment if you want. For me, technology is evolving very fast. The laptop is just a tool to assist me and it is not an asset. You need to apply the concept of equipment's depreciation in order not to feel the pinch from the development wave. If I can utilise the laptop over two years, that will be great - a bonus for me. Same concept to be applied if you have your own car.

Whether you buy HP or not, it is still your decision. I am neither promoting HP products nor have self-interest in said company (shareholder). Like me, after looking through some tablets, HP is still offering the best solution for my hard earned "RM". They are not perfect, no doubt. If you don't want to be the early adopter, you can still wait until the given technology settled down and all the bugs fixed.

Like me, I need to use it (tablet) to assist my work. I also not willing to spend >RM8k just to get one. Regardless, with this kind of investment I am spending, I can get better product than the TX, no doubt.

For your info, I am still waiting for TX2's technology to settle down. With the release of Windows 7 just around the corner, full compatibility is an important issue to me. With the available time, I hope that HP will be able to fix some drawbacks exist with the current model.

For the business ethics issue, it need to be discussed in another forum, if possible. I think this forum is to discuss and help out TX users especially the new ones. Try to take the negative issues and convert them to positive ones. A sour lemon still a sour lemon.. maybe we need to make some lemonade with the help of some sugar. Don't be despaired - together, we can make things happen.

1) All our actions are in the spotlight.... no worries.

2) Insurance package..? won't help those with standard warranties. Just how many ppl opt for extended warranties... Bet you those on a budget would skimp on this...

3) I know you never explicitly condone "..to sell product not up to its full standard quality." but the act of accepting it and also make future purchases from HP implies it.

3) "..apply the concept of equipment's depreciation".... huh....I'm too simple to apply those ideas.... The problem is when it dies just over a year... Think most would not have thunk that it would be a total write-off after just over a year.

4) If money is hard earned. Don't you think it's prudent to spend it on another brand even if pricier... at least you stand a chance however slim of getting better results.???

5) Bugs???? it's not a bug.... it's a monster..... The whole notebook ups and dies and would not power up. That's not a bug.

6) Why business ethics on another forum.... Discussing here will help out other tx1000 users as well as potential HP purchasers to be aware of what happened and what to expect from HP.

7) For the short-term we can make lemonade. In the long-term Uproot the lemon tree and plant a tree that bears fruit that pleases u. Good idea???. P/S I'm still making lemonade from my lemons.. at the same time I'm looking around for a durian tree....

8) Am not despaired. Am just participating....

Rgds

Well said

Well said....

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Added on February 27, 2009, 2:10 amwell said....

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Added on February 27, 2009, 2:13 amWell said ??

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Added on February 27, 2009, 2:18 amWell said..... he changes brand...

This post has been edited by yiks001: Feb 27 2009, 02:18 AM

Clarification to some of your responses ..

Well, each person has his/her own interpretation on how to spend the hard earned money. To be prudent, some rational especially in decision making alongside benefit/cost ratio analysis would be very applicable here.

For me, I only expect my laptop to last me two years. By then, it's already behind the main stream (or put it in another word, outdated). If I can use it or recoup the initial capital outlay beyond this period, it is a bonus to me. As I said earlier, I don't consider the lappy as a real asset .. just like my car too. Once the item already served its useful lifespan, it should no longer carry a value to you. You may interpret yours differently.

Let say, for 3 years I need to buy 3 TX units say 3xRM3k = RM9k. May be it only last me 1 year due to hardware fault etc. Thats RM9k spanning over 3 year ... NPV less that if you know how to calculate it. If I buy another brand, it going to cost me easily over that RM9k mark. That's already a saving here.

Just image, I could invest the 2nd RM3k for 1 year and the 3rd RM3k for 2 years and gain some time based benefits here as well. Computers tend to appreciate in value instead of depreciate. But owing one, will be the reverse. RM3k unit now and RM3k next year not going to be same specifications.

Just for argument sake, the alternative costs the same, RM9k. Well, it's the same cost but different NPV. On the 2nd year, I buy another one as per planned. I don't think you'll get the same model but a better one. On the third year, it will be a better model than the 2nd year one. Technically and financially, I am gaining here.. adopting this approach than buying the expensive model.

No, merely just buying an expensive unit does not constitute a prudent way of handling things.

Yes, as I said earlier, whether you want to buy or not, the decision is still yours. If you know the model has problem, please do not buy it. Don't just buy it just because it looks good or it's a fashion to follow. Do proper research on the potential units and don't just buy because it is on sale or just at spur of the moment. You know how much toil it took to save or beg to get the "mulah" to the right amount, I bet you.

Off the topic - sorry. Yes, you can plant any tree you like in your yard. But you will not catch me planting a durian tree there even it sounds very good at this time. The long term gain will not answer the long term problem it is going to bring me. So, the lemon tree seems to be a better option. By the way, I don't have a lemon tree but a mango infront. Hahahaaha..

Yep, that's why we're for. Helping each other.

This post has been edited by obm_nlh: Feb 27 2009, 05:04 PM

@yiks001, I admit that tx1000 got a lot of problem and that also the reason I bought tx2 instead.

Even that, the most common hardware failure is wifi only.. not to big deal IMO cause you can just stick USB Wifi to solve the problem.

I believe, most people that complaining is the one that didn't really need the tablet function. If they did, that function itself already outweight other minor problems.

Like a lot of post before said, if you don't need tablet functionality don't get a tablet.

Agree.. It seems cool to have the "transformer" to show off to friends. But heck, if you don't use it, the same amount of "fulus" can buy a better notebook.

You also cannot compare the TX series with a netbook as they are in different league by themselves. Morale of story, make sure you know what you want to do with your laptop and from the access the product life span. Mind you, nothing will last forever. You have to accept some common break even point for your investment. However, this does not apply for real estate.

1) Too High a proportion of tx1000 laptops die just over a year.

2) What NPV are you calculating. ????
Ok.
HP Way. 1st year buy tx1000. Cash outflow RM3000. 2nd year buy tx1000 equiv Cash outflow - RM3000, 3rd year buy tx1000 equiv.Cash outflow RM 3000.
How is this gonna beat Maybe the lenovo thinkpad x61 at maybe RM5000. 1st year buy x61 RM5000. 2nd year no cash outlay. 3rd year no cash outlay.


Even if you expect only to keep your tech for 2 years. with X61 you can maybe sell the x61 for RM1500 (to be conservative) on 2nd year. I'm sure you can sell a notebook for more if it's in working order?

How in the world were u able to calculate that HP would be better value when it only last 1 year plus???

3) Of course just buying expensive unit does not solve problem. BUt because of HP's manufacturing defect which customers have to bare. It has made the alternative pricier solution a better choice.

4) You mean to tell me the manufacturing defect of the tx1000 I bought it's my fault because I didn't do enuf research on it.? ???/ Is that what HP terms of business are???. If that's the case I definately would not go for HP products. And would advise others to keep away. Aren't manufacturer's suppose to stand by their products from manufacturing defects?..????

5) Do you mean to tell me that all HP products on sale have manufacturing defects?? and HP only sell discounted notebooks that have manufacturing defects??? If so..... Better not buy HP products when they on sale mannnn!!!!!

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Added on February 27, 2009, 7:54 pmIf you browse the net you'll find that a dead wifi is the start of your problems. Eventually your whole notebook would fail to start. Just like mine also.

What's it gotta do with whether users use the tablet function or not???? How can a non-working tablet outweigh a working conventional notebook?

What's it gotta do with whether or not users decide to get a tablet or not. It's HP's manufacturing defect!!!! I'm talking about!!!???
And the way they handle this situation.



This post has been edited by yiks001: Feb 27 2009, 07:58 PM

A lot of weak point.

1. By the 2nd year, most probably you wont buy a tx1000 again.
2. By the 2nd year, new model will come out and fix the older version loophole.
3. Even if you still buy a tx1000 the price will not be the same?? OMG 3 years the price still RM3k??
4. Assuming you bought a new model on 2nd year AND assuming again it will die on 2nd year you still get new spec. Same goes on 3rd year.
5. By the time your thindpad on 3rd year, Office 2020 maybe out already and you may barely run it due too outdated old spec.
6. So you decide to buy new thinkpad = +RM5k
7. and so on..

What weak point. If the notebook still works. No point getting another one.
But I guess in your case where u change notebook every year it don't make a difference. You make HP one happy manufacturer.

5. Don't you see that if the notebook (eg Thinkpad X61) still working you can still sell it at a better value than a notebook from HP that died just after a year. And be able to buy another newer one without losing so much????/

6. No i'm not buying a thinkpad X61. I'm just giving and example. But yeah..... in hindsight if I knew HP way of business is like this I would have gone for the thinkpad X61 even if pricier... but I have no ability to see the future. but have the ability to see what happened in the past....

7. and right on.. and on...

I just think you're just feel bitter because your bad luck with your tx, on the other side I'm happy with my tx at the moment.

I don't think you can call that bad luck. There's been a lot of similar faults with the tx1000 series ... search around.... It's clearly manufacturing defect.

I repeat ......it's not bad luck. It's manufacturing defect.

In your case.... you are lucky to have a working tx1000. Which does not mean the numerous others who face problems are unlucky......

And as such If I really do feel bitter, it's warranted as would other customers of HP tx1000 series product.


Am I bitter.... not really... I bot the extended warranty.. But not really happy with the way HP is handling this situation.

What I feel funny is that there are ppl clearly aware of how HP is handling this but go on promoting HP's product. No wonder companies here can treat Malaysians like dirt when it comes to service.

If you don't believe me just do a search on google........for 'tx1000 problems'

here are some....

tx1000 problem

ANd another....

And closer to home....
Which looks exactly like what happened to mine......

Can you see it's not bad luck???
Just bad manufacturer....ie HP


This post has been edited by yiks001: Feb 28 2009, 01:36 AM

Further clarification to your queries:

As NPV or other decision making technique is not the scope of the forum topic, I am not going to elaborate further on this.

You can never tell how long a unit can last. It could failed on the day you received it or never (passed your expected lifespan of the product). Life is a gamble. Some people covers the uncertainties with insurance. Even if the unit did not failed, it may be stolen or damaged during transit.

To tell you the truth, X61 did not even make my list when I decided to buy my 1st TX (TX1k series). At the time, a TX cost about RM5,500 RRP with the closest one cost under RM8,000 followed by RM10,000. Lucky you to buy one at RM3000.

My friend and I bought the 1st batch of TX model. His is still alive and kicking well. I think the latter batch has problems with the video chipset and heating problem.

In our case, our initial investment at least 45% cheaper than nearest possible one already passed due its normal life (as per our specifications). What else do you want?

As I said earlier, you have to decide your decision making parameters - mine may not be the same as yours. To me, I am satisfied with what I have even though some people think otherwise. BTW, the earlier units did not have better touch screen ability as per nowdays.

No, costlier solution does not mean a better choice. It really depends on your decision making parameters you have set earlier. In engineering, we were stressed the need to look into cost-benefit ratios.

I never said that. A well thought or rational acquisition will minimise your chances for a bad deal. Yes, manufacturer suppose to standby their products. That's what product warranty is there for.

Yes, it does play an important factor to your decision making process. As per noted by me and some other forumers here, PLEASE select this unit IF you want to utilise the touchscreen in tablet mode. If it is for trend or fashion, my advise to the buyer is that there are a lot more better models with the amount of money you're going to spend.

Like me, I need my touchscreen in tablet mode capability due to work requirement. TX series, surpassed my expectation and seems to get even better as days go by. Nevertheless, I am still waiting for current TX2 series to settle down especially support for Windows 7 and availability of a speedier unit before again jumping into the new bandwagon.

BTW, I also use other brands - HP is just one of them.

This post has been edited by obm_nlh: Feb 28 2009, 01:39 AM

"What else do you want?".... Becoz I got it cheap I should be happy that it died 1year +????

Are u sure u have no vested interest in HP. Or are not directly or indirectly paid by/receive benefits from HP ?????


Also may I quote my own statement:

"What's it gotta do with whether users use the tablet function or not???? How can a non-working tablet outweigh a working conventional notebook?"

That you reply..... It's actually a sarcastic remark... please note "NON-WORKING" tablet in the quote above....

Rgds

This post has been edited by yiks001: Feb 28 2009, 01:47 AM