What I’ve learned from job hopping for 8 years

I’ve gone into many many many chinaman and unorganised companies. This is the summary of my experience so far.

Disclaimer: I know it’s not easy to find a job now. If u are currently employed and wondering whether to jump to another job, this could b ur gauge whether to jump. If u’re unemployed and just need a job, don’t be picky

1. Avoid ‘company confidential’ ads. Company confidential are recruitment companies. The company appoints recruitment companies to save costs rather than hire a permanent HR dept. In general, they are chinaman company, always on cost savings. Except for some instances, Eg Hartalega was posting it on Jobstreet and appointing recruitment companies. For info, Hartalega is a good company to join.

2. Ensure that the company has a proper HR department.

3. Avoid family business where the directors or top management are family members (eg. daughter or son) of the biggest boss. This is called second generations. They have no idea how to lead and most of the time donno what they are doing. They did not work their way up from the bottom. Do ur research online if they are family members (same surname and too young to be at a high position). If brother/ sister of biggest boss, it’s okay. If biggest boss kids or wife is top management, AVOID. Except for few instances like Hartalega

4. Is the turnover high for the boss’s secretary? If you can find out, it will be informative. The closest person to the boss is the secretary. If the secretary post has a high turnover rate, avoid. Eg of high turnover secretaries: TopGlove, Berjaya, Naza, Genting, Tropicana Corporation. This shows there is a problem wit the boss, rather than the secretaries

5. During interview, ask how many staff there are. Those small company (1-50 staff) tends to micro manage. Except startup companies

6. During interview, if they ask:
a) why did u leave ur last company?
b) why is there a gap in employment?
c) why this this this company short term only?
AVOID going into this company. They are focusing on your faults and NOT ur expertise

7. Ask ur interviewer, for ur role,
a) what happen to the previous person?
b) how long did the previous person stay?
c) why previous person left?

8. DO join companies which interview focuses on your experience and expertise.

9. During interviews, look around the company. Are there ppl there smiling and laughing? How is the office and table structure? OBSERVE. A good layout plan of office is important because it reflects how organise the company is. Eg. The most disorganized layout plan i've ever been to is BP Healthcare

10. How is the biggest boss (May be your direct or indirect boss)? Does his employees look up to him? Does he hav compassion? Does he hav a DAUGHTER? Bosses who has daughters are more compassionate.

11. Look up Jobstreet and Glassdoor review. Crucial. Try and join Aon Best Employers companies. More info here: https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4901395

11. A good company will tell you their benefits up front (during signing of offer or even during first interview), without u needing to ask them. The HR will tell u willingly and not hiding and the HR is happy being hardworking and informative.

12. As for salary, a good company will not negotiate salary. They will giv the salary U ask for. There is not a need to bring up salary topic

13. Is the turnover high for the boss’s secretary? If you can find out, it will be informative. The closest person to the boss is the secretary. If the secretary post has a high turnover rate, avoid. Eg of high turnover secretaries: TopGlove, Berjaya, Naza, Genting, Tropicana Corporation. This shows there is a problem wit the boss, rather than the secretaries

14. If can, ask the HR whether HR’s KPI also includes turnover rate. If it does, it’s a good company. More info here : https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4901395

15. Observe the HR interviewing you. Does she show concern? I had an interview before where the HR told me “I look nervous and pale” which it was true. And she consoled me to relax.

16. Avoid companies that post jobs on jobstreet on weekends. It means the HR works on weekends. Unless u are prepared to work on weekends, avoid

When u’ve entered the company already, observe:

1. How is the structure of the organisation chart? Is it well planned? Is it a clear path? Ensure u and other staff only report to ONE person.

2. How does the biggest boss manage? When there are mistakes or a problem, who does he goes to? Does he go to the GM or straight to the employee tat did the mistake. Avoid a company tat the biggest boss goes straight to the employee to find fault. There must b a clear line of authority

3. I once joined a company where, one person was head of HR, customer service, legal, etc etc, but she is not a GM or a VP. She was just a kuli, doing paper work like preparing ‘letter of offer’. AVOID

4. Avoid companies where manager always changes or managers who are only under contract. And they keep restructuring

5. Find out what’s the turnover rate like in the company and whether HR’s KPI is concerned wit turnover rate. A good company’s HR’s KPI is also based on the turnover rate. HR are the one’s who partly makes decision to hire people. It’s part of their responsibility for retaining the staff

6. How are the staff attitude towards the bosses? Positive or complains? Are the staff always complaining about the bosses? Not one, but majority. If one, u can sweep under the carpet. If many, start browsing jobstreet.



Anything else to add?

This post has been edited by taiping...: Dec 9 2020, 10:28 AM

Typical advise i have been told is to not discuss salary til asked about .

Would you say this is true ?
At point of the interview do I being it up or do i wait for them to mention it.
Also, at what point do we ask about benefits etc?

Mind sharing what type of company are u working at now? Did u manage to find one that met all 12 criteria?

A good company will tell you their benefits up front (during signing of offer or even during first interview), without u needing to ask them. The HR will tell u willingly and not hiding and the HR is happy being hardworking and informative.

As for salary, my current company did not negotiate wit me. They gav me the salary I asked for. I did not need to bring up the topic of salary.

Thanks for this question. I will include this into my post.

I am lucky to hav land my current job. It is a good company, hence that's why i can compare my current experience with the companies i joined before. My plan is to retire here if possible and if given a chance I would stay.
This is after at least 70 interviews and entering into at least 10 companies in a span of 8 years. It was a tough ride

This post has been edited by taiping...: Feb 3 2020, 04:40 PM

Hi TS,

6. During interviews, look around the company. Are there ppl there smiling and laughing? How is the office and table structure? OBSERVE. A good layout plan of office is important because it reflects how organised the company is

Mostly, interview held in the meeting room at the lobby area. A rare case as an outsider you'll go through the office or probably what you observed is a very small company with few peoples perhaps.

This post has been edited by s|dE: Feb 2 2020, 01:58 PM

In that case, observe the receptionist or even if there is a receptionist. IF there is no receptionist, I suggest to AVOID. If there is, How is she like. Happy, friendly, smiling, willing to help?

I’ve once had tat kinda interview. The receptionist was terrible. She was rude and unfriendly and there was no proper table and chair to fill up the application form. I had to sit on the sofa and write. This shows how disorganised the place is. Also, the receptionist did not suggest for me to go into the room where the interview was held (lobby) for my ease to fill up the form.

In addition, during the interview, the head told me they are going through a restructuring cause many were laid off. And she admits tat is currently very messy. She is a new head and she even probe:

a) why did u leave ur last company?
b) why is there a gap in employment?
c) why this this this company short term only?

She should instead focus on my experience and expertise

The head also said must work on weekends and whenever needed. She also said I hav to assist many more heads. I don’t only need to report to her. In a long run, this would cause a lot of confusion.


I knew it was not a good company then already

This post has been edited by taiping...: Feb 2 2020, 02:51 PM

So true.

I job-hopped a lot too for over ten years + but I have never been asked these three questions at all by my employers.

I have even gaps in my employment history. There are places where I worked for only 4 or 6 months in some companies. But yet, no one asked the below questions.

a) why did u leave ur last company?
b) why is there a gap in employment?
c) why this this this company short term only?

Your job hop history in your resume will be overlooked actually if your skills are valued.

By the way, I do not believe in any perfect company.

I have been to companies which paid higher than the market rate but the colleagues are toxic.

I have been to companies which paid below the market rate but I find it happier due to the calm and relaxed atmosphere and with friendly supportive colleagues.

Yes, they will focus on ur strength

As for colleagues, the most important person to gauge how the company colleagues and culture is like is through the receptionist and HR interviewer. How is their communication skill and how helpful they are. If the receptionist is happy, means she is adequately appreciated by all the other colleagues

There is definitely no perfect company, but there are above average companies to try and target and decide whether to jump company

very informative ts, thanks!
would you mind sharing how many companies you've worked with over the 8 years?
also, do you have any advice for those heading into the internship period and/or fresh graduates?

Mars is family owned
Ford is family owned
Cargill is family owned
Bosch is family owned
BMW is family owned

The one u met probably are local family owned so i suggest dont generalize all family business sucks.

This post has been edited by Red_rustyjelly: Feb 2 2020, 04:08 PM

Am glad if it’s of help!

I’ve been into perhaps about 10 companies. Least, 6 months. Longest, 2 years

I hav no advice for internship cause am not in HR

I am not saying they are NOT successful. Am talking about working for them. This is after all jobs and careers section.
They may be successful in their products and services. But internally, management wise we don’t know. Berjaya is successful too, no doubt, but working for them is another story.

Also, I am talking about Malaysia, the third World country here. Not US, not Germany. Not international companies

Family business in terms of their kids being in top Managment.

This post has been edited by taiping...: Feb 2 2020, 04:31 PM

Thanks for sharing

I really appreciate it.

I am now looking for better opportunity hopefully these tips will help

Good luck!

Great intention by starting this thread you have there.

I've job hunted for a couple of years (with a good % turning into offers) but only changed job once in my career (I was quite picky) and occasionally interviewed candidates as hiring manager so i'll share a bit as well.

on your point 4. I think it's fine to to be questioned on why a person's career movement. Since employers would like to know if you have traits that are not good to the company (like being a toxic person etc). The trick as an interviewee is to use it as an opportunity to boost your own credibility. Eg. "I'm currently looking into a change of environment and working culture to broaden my horizons, see how things are being done differently vs my own company, at the same time i believe my background and experience could bring a different perspective into the company"

Additional point I would add:

1. Not all interviewers are skilled in interviewing. So don't entirely depend on the interviewer asking the right questions to show off your capabilities. I would list down a list of my top relevant capability, and try to find opportunities to showcase them.

2. Glassdoor or jobstreet reviews may be insufficient for some companies, or culture may differ across countries for MNCs. If possible or in doubt, I would find some of the employees on linkedin in the same dept to ask a few questions.

3. During the interview, it is as much about them as it is about you. When interviewers are asking questions, they try to identify what in you that could contribute to the company, so make the connection clearer for how your experiences and skillset could contribute to the company.

4. A lot of interviews will start with 'tell me about yourself' I would prepare a long script of my personal job history and relevant skillset to tell and relate it back to how i could contribute to the company (point 1. and 3. related). A lot of interviewees tend to talk about random things like "oh i got 2 brothers and 1 sister), when it could be the golden opportunity to show them what you got.

5. When negotiating salary, usually I wouldn't talk about it until they have decided that they want to give me an offer, before that my only focus would be making myself a candidate they feel that they are missing out if they do not hire. From an organizational perspective, good candidates should be worth a higher than average investment if they are giving you an above average return. If they do not agree then perhaps you should reconsider.

6. Lastly also show that you do your homework towards the company, and also provide your view on how the dept could perhaps function better (if you can find out what they could improve on, they'll love you, if its not obvious for certain jobs, ask them and provide your input, show them you're a thinking than just a follower)

Wow! Good tips for how to reply in interviews and how to face interviews. Nice sharing

Would it be ok to ask what is the turnover rate of your company?

I've not personally ask HRs that. But i've been into companies with VERY high turnover rate. Eg. BP Healthcare
The high turnover rate is well known in Lowyat forum and Glassdoor
The moment i stepped into the company, colleagues also told me it's high turnover
The turnover rate was so high that staff there have a game of guessing how long the new employees can last when they step in.

This post has been edited by taiping...: Feb 3 2020, 04:44 PM

i just realise working environment in bp is so terrifying, which area of bp u work?

Thanks for sharing

I've worked at a company which the manager asked these 3 questions:

1. Why you apply to work here?
2. Give me 10 reasons why should I hire you?
3. Give me 10 contributions you can do for us?

I just goreng and got hired but turns out that manager is a taichi master. Anything good he took the credit, bad thing happens then he'll hide and let us took the blame.

After that any interviewer asking any of these questions I'll just answer: "I'm sorry but seems like you are wasting my time and you are wasting your time as well." and walk away.

no need to be like that...you are no different with the interviewer who asked you those questions.

just be polite and reject if they offer you.

This post has been edited by xSean: Feb 3 2020, 04:12 PM

I would like to add one point : I realised that the working culture, environment and ethics may vary from dept to dept WITHIN the same company, especially bigger MNC companies.

Different bosses / heads of dept may run their dept differently. Some are strict, some are relaxed, some micromanage, some don't. I've also seen and heard of ppl jumping between different dept within big MNC but of course the procedure of jumping dept will vary between companies, so that is another point to consider.

informative . thanks

Once bitten forever scare....

But in my opinion those interviewer who asked these questions obviously didnt even take a look at the resume before the interview. Just simply ask and get over with the interview.

How to even answer 2nd and 3rd questions politely and correctly other than finding many random fact to goreng?

BP at Taman Megah?

Obviously wasting of time. He don't bother to read cv maybe?

Also, why do every company like to ask strength and weaknesses?

Can we have another, what we can ask the employer during interview? Since interviewing is also we want to see whether we choose the right company.

hello ts. can i know what field you are working for?

I would like to add:

a) Big companies don't promise you a healthy working environment even though they pay you high than the market rate. My schoolmate use to work in one of the big 4 companies, the colleagues are really toxic and racist. If you get a healthy working environment, that's a good thing.

b) Family business company. I've worked at one of them before this. One of the directors has a scandal with one of the staff. That specific staff likes to bully people especially those under her. People that worked under her won't last for a year. The family business company tends to micromanage people kaw kaw. Like to find every single fault. Stingy benefits but expectations really high.

I'm also like to job hop, but one thing that I realised from my experience of hopping from one company to another company, it's a blessing that you get a good working environment which is good colleagues and bosses. Your salary may be lower, or just average, but the environment that makes can makes you stay for the long term in the company. I enjoyed my last contract job because of my colleagues and bosses. I enjoyed it so much but sadly they don't renew my contract.

Job hopping is really tiring tbh. Right now, I want to settle down for a while with the current company I'm working on right now.

This post has been edited by cringe: Feb 3 2020, 07:59 PM

I think the whole branch in BP is terrifying.
The reviews are all over the place such as Glassdoor and Jobstreet.

Will salary get raise as each job hopping goes? I have a colleague who have 11 years of working experience, in her linkedin profile, she was like hopping around company constantly every 2 years.

Other than that, I am an intern in a big company now. As far as online review goes, the company does have high turnover as glassdoor and LYN forum claim. But my colleagues so far are okay and friendly to me, like most of them, those seniors are mostly working >9 years. If the company is so bad, why they are many seniors could stay that long, yet fresh graduate usually won't last more than 5 years (estimated).

I am not sure how much the salary should I ask after the end of my internship. Since most of them saying fresh graduate demand 4k is quite greedy.

I'm just going to highlight this point. If/when you get an interview of have worked for a company, please go write a review on Glassdoor and/or Jobstreet. It helps everyone.
I know one company that I've worked at before that actually pays attention to Glassdoor and Jobstreet reviews, although I don't know what they do with that feedback

Another thing, a good company will also sell themselves to you *first* ie. this is what the company wants to do that's unique and this is why it'll benefit you in your career. Some of them can be very specific in their plans. After you've seen their big picture, then you can sell yourself more directly on how your can contribute.

People leave managers, not companies. The opposite is also true ie. people join managers especially the hiring manager that interviews you

Thanks for sharing. So true...

Glenmarie

Interesting and informative thread. Thanks TS for initiating.

Entering my 12th year in workforce, and in my 5th job. A lot of the advice here is very useful and pertinent.

Also, know when to call it quits and leave if things doesn't seem rosy or suit your strengths. I was fortunate my current employers were willing to overlook that I was only in my previous role for <6 months before looking out.

Kinda thankful.

Thanks for sharing TS

Unfortunately, my expertise do not have much choice

my Guess you currently in Hartalega...

They do have good benefit for their workers if i remember correctly..

provide hostel if needed and also provide study loan as well..

Am i right?

It's tough being in a niche industry.
But at the same time, u can get higher pay (i think)

This one I agree
I once had an interview in a well furnished lobby and I was impressed
But when second interview moved to real office, I was surprise to see workers cramped in so much paper work in the office and they look quiet and depressed

Actually hartalega is a family business so this clash with ts requirements

And the business is run by 3rd generation of brothers and cousins. The business started fr the grandpa in construction (I think) and clothes label before the son n brother took up the challenge from govt to go into rubber glove and then niche nitrile then later the grand sons had overseas educTion went n took over.

This post has been edited by renomahans: Feb 7 2020, 09:06 AM

ahh....thanks for the insight.

My personal experience from an interviewer who likes to ask definition on different terms, rather than focussing on my experiences & skillsets:

1. What's the difference between client, customer and prospect?
2. What's sales funnel?
3. Branding vs Marketing - What's the difference?
4. What's passion?

I felt like sitting an exam rather an interview. Personally, I don't think knowing those definitions will guarantee a successful sales professional.

On my personal experience, I seek for salary raise on each job hopping. 6 companies over the 8 years, my current salary tripled from my first salary as fresh grad. I don't promote job hopping because there are some trade-offs, whereby it's not well acceptable by the most people. Only minority would value your skillsets & experience, and let past be a history.

For yourself, do seek for growth & learning, money will come after you build up your capabilities.

Thanks TP for sharing such useful information for the benefits of all.

From my personal experience, there are also some so-called MNC who just set up their office in Malaysia, less than 10 staff in the office. According to recruitment firms, these are considered Start-ups in Malaysia, not even MNC.

If you cannot find any information from online (Lowyat forum/Jobstreet review), one of the alternative ways is to buy the Company Profile from SSM, which costs you RM15.30. From there, it will give you some information on their start-up capital (to see how serious the company is in setting up the business here in Malaysia), director(s) & share holders of the company, and most importantly the company's revenues (to see how well is their businesses).

Hope above information compliment TP's ones.

How do you analyse the SSM?

HR or interviewer tend to ask things at no.4

indeed i agree my last job asked those questions and I worked only for a year and half lol consider long as well

current job did ask me why leaving but he is just cool with it, job offered right after interview and discuss package etc so im onboard

this recruitment agent literally asked me all these 3 questions on behalf of his client...

not necessarily, these are key questions to determine your career motivation and what do you look for in the mid to long term. My current company asked me these questions during interview as well (along with other questions that evaluates my skillsets and experience of course) and gave me a 50% bump from my previous salary. MNC (true MNC, not those "franchise model MNC" that functions like a startup/sme model.

Great thread

Because your career motivation and aspiration is wsy more important than your current talent. No point hiring a super genius who hate his job.

Or a genius that would hop to another job with no sense of loyalty or ownership, hence I respectfully disagree with TS’ arbitrary list of non-empirically based definitions/questions.

I tend to disagree on this. Normally before I start interview the proper one. During those phone call screening, i will talk about salary range first. I will tell them what is my expectation and if it is within their range. I do not want to waste everyone's time going through the whole interview process only to know in the end that they can't pay what i want. Of course the final salary you will negotiate damn hard when they really want you. Salary negotiation is a real crucial skill.

So any China man co like Hartalega? What about Grab? Although they experienced some financial issue and had to let go some staffs, but from what I hear from friend work there, seems quite ok.

I ingat big boss secretary always change is a good sign. This way, we don't have to cow down to a domineering and powerful secretary.

How to know a co whereby boss go find fault at the staff? I can only think of asking ex staffs and glassdoor.

I think for no.12 to happen, you either have to be a high sought after global talent or you got some skills the co really wants. Of course, these companies has to be very forward thinking and ahead of its curve, macam MNC.

BP healthcare. Hahaha. I once know a very close friend who worked there. The stories I hear from that company, I really roll my eyes and pengsan.

I agree with you, that when you go interview if you see a tensed environment its a red flag. For eg, I did go for one interview, I saw outside like the staffs don;t talk to each other, just look at their laptops in their cubicles. I was in a glass meeting room. I waited there for 10min before start interview, so I observed.

It is very easy to post jobstreet ad in the weekend mah. Doesn't mean staff work in weekend. Sometimes when I got time, I just open my laptop and check the people who apply for jobs at my co, for me to look for candidates.

On no.8, it has to be within the same industry expertise lor. For eg, I was in a certain industry, I didn't want to stay long. So I changed to another one.

Share sikit insider gossip?

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/5088838

well, you can read the past posts about them.

My experience, job hop when u offered a better package, not working condition and stress.