Digital TV Malaysia v2, Malaysian Digital Terrestrial TV
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 Apr 4 2020, 05:04 PM
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#661
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Senior Member
6,103 posts Joined: Apr 2009 From: Marang, Terengganu   
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QUOTE(dannyw @ Apr 4 2020, 03:23 PM) New channel out on channel 000 - drama sangat. >2.3>2.5MbpsLooks like is from Media Prima. Wonder why all Media Prima channel still not in HD. All RTM channels is so sharp & clear in hd format.  >sharp you high ah?  |
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Apr 4 2020, 08:43 PM
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Senior Member
1,286 posts Joined: Jan 2007
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QUOTE(Qash-M @ Apr 4 2020, 05:04 PM) >2.3>2.5Mbps Compared to 8TV, NTV7 consider good enough for me.>sharp you high ah? Is free TV station, can't compare with paid. |
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Apr 4 2020, 08:48 PM
Show posts by this member only | IPv6 | Post
#663
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Senior Member
6,103 posts Joined: Apr 2009 From: Marang, Terengganu
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QUOTE(dannyw @ Apr 4 2020, 08:43 PM) Compared to 8TV, NTV7 consider good enough for me. to be fair, RTM HD bitrates was fine before early this year (3.6Mbps something), before the video bitrates downgrade later on.Is free TV station, can't compare with paid. |
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Apr 4 2020, 11:45 PM
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#664
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Senior Member
7,794 posts Joined: Dec 2014 From: Malaysia
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QUOTE(dannyw @ Apr 4 2020, 08:43 PM) Compared to 8TV, NTV7 consider good enough for me. Not entirely true... Is free TV station, can't compare with paid. It's a matter of whether the broadcasters and/or MYTV Broadcasting themselves want to use higher bitrates or not only... Although it is free, but if you compare with the video bitrate use from neighbouring country's DTT channels, their bitrate is way higher than us. Ours is so low, as if it's so stingy. But then, at the end of the day, it's all about business + money. |
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Apr 5 2020, 12:36 AM
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Senior Member
1,072 posts Joined: Dec 2012
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QUOTE(dannyw @ Apr 4 2020, 08:43 PM) Compared to 8TV, NTV7 consider good enough for me. Even if it is free, the picture quality of RTM HD channels is quite mediocre with around 2.5Mbps video bitrate available (not a suitable bitrate for 1080i HDTV broadcast), looks very like what you can see on YouTube (even sometimes YouTube videos looks much better if the uploading source is good). Slightly complex scenes already causes the text in the crawler bars to look blocky. When compared to DTT channels in Singapore (which has better quality) ours RTM looks like "ada gambar sudah".Is free TV station, can't compare with paid. This post has been edited by shaun_kok: Apr 5 2020, 03:56 AM |
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Apr 5 2020, 02:16 AM
Show posts by this member only | IPv6 | Post
#666
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Senior Member
7,794 posts Joined: Dec 2014 From: Malaysia
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QUOTE(shaun_kok @ Apr 5 2020, 12:36 AM) Even if it is free, the picture quality of RTM HD channels is quite mediocre with around 2.5Mbps video bitrate available (not a suitable bitrate for 1080i HDTV broadcast), looks very like what you can see on YouTube (even sometimes YouTube videos looks much better if the uploading source is good). Slightly complex scenes already causes the text in the crawler bars to look blocky. When compared to DTT channels in Singapore (which has better quality) ours RTM looks like "ada gambar sudah". Errr.. Correction...3.5Mbps for all RTM channels 4Mbps for TV3, Go Shop and Al Hijrah SD channel no need to say. How high also no point. Still SD anyway 🤷♂🤷♂🤷♂ |
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Apr 5 2020, 03:57 AM
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Senior Member
1,072 posts Joined: Dec 2012
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QUOTE(joshhd @ Apr 5 2020, 02:16 AM) Errr.. Correction... Have to check and confirm first. I knew that TV3 HD is around 4Mbps and for the SD channels, 2Mbps (which is considered good for a SD channel). I remembered that you had once post a graph showing that RTM TV channels are running at mere 2.5Mbps bitrate per HD channel on MPEG-4/H.264 codec.3.5Mbps for all RTM channels 4Mbps for TV3, Go Shop and Al Hijrah SD channel no need to say. How high also no point. Still SD anyway 🤷♂🤷♂🤷♂ This post has been edited by shaun_kok: Apr 5 2020, 04:11 AM |
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Apr 5 2020, 01:42 PM
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Senior Member
1,276 posts Joined: Sep 2018 From: Ampang
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QUOTE(shaun_kok @ Apr 5 2020, 12:36 AM) Even if it is free, the picture quality of RTM HD channels is quite mediocre with around 2.5Mbps video bitrate available (not a suitable bitrate for 1080i HDTV broadcast), looks very like what you can see on YouTube (even sometimes YouTube videos looks much better if the uploading source is good). Slightly complex scenes already causes the text in the crawler bars to look blocky. When compared to DTT channels in Singapore (which has better quality) ours RTM looks like "ada gambar sudah". Singapore has more multiplexes because they have a lot more spectrum than Malaysia for historical reasons and transmitting per person there is very cheap. Covering rural Malaysia gets very expensive. |
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Apr 5 2020, 04:13 PM
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Senior Member
1,072 posts Joined: Dec 2012
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QUOTE(dayojah @ Apr 5 2020, 01:42 PM) Singapore has more multiplexes because they have a lot more spectrum than Malaysia for historical reasons and transmitting per person there is very cheap. Covering rural Malaysia gets very expensive. Not necessarily. In fact, it is technically completely possible for Mediacorp to transmit all their TV services with similar quality by using just 1 or 2 multiplexes rather than 3 multiplexes (4 in the past). This doesn't include hidden multiplexes suspectedly transmitting from Singapore. When Singapore starts DTT transmission, they choose to simulcast existing TV services already existing on analogue TV and not adding additional TV services. Their small size also mean that the SFN is much easier for them to do as they have a lot of gap filler transmitters covering islandwide. Since there are so little channels available and as Singapore already have some spectrum available and also lower modulation (16QAM) meant more robust signal and lower transmit power when compared to our 256QAM, it is wiser for them to transmit using more multiplexes instead while maintaining good technical quality and also to occupy the frequencies rightly owned by them. I agree that the cost of transmitting in rural Malaysia is quite high, hence the satellite transmission approach. However some areas, notably Seremban (Gunung Telapak Burok), Kangar (Padang Pauh) and Labuan (Bukit Tampalagus+Bukit Timbalai) and some parts of Penang (Bukit Penara), controversially and ridiculously have no digital terrestrial transmitters, and these areas are certainly not considered as rural Malaysia. For RTM, they have lower/no pressure on transmission cost since their operating cost are subsidized by the Government if compared to a commercial company like Media Prima. Yet, they are transmitting in much inferior quality than the commercial TV stations. This post has been edited by shaun_kok: Apr 5 2020, 04:30 PM |
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Apr 5 2020, 05:20 PM
Show posts by this member only | IPv6 | Post
#670
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Senior Member
7,794 posts Joined: Dec 2014 From: Malaysia
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QUOTE(shaun_kok @ Apr 5 2020, 03:57 AM) Have to check and confirm first. I knew that TV3 HD is around 4Mbps and for the SD channels, 2Mbps (which is considered good for a SD channel). I remembered that you had once post a graph showing that RTM TV channels are running at mere 2.5Mbps bitrate per HD channel on MPEG-4/H.264 codec. Video bitrate check on Mux 1 and Mux 2    Audio bitrate check on Mux 1 and Mux 2   Radio channels on Mux 2:  Well, from this graph, now you know what's the bitrate they're using. And do note that I've filtered all data to display for only Video track and Audio track as what you can see above. Those subtitle tracks, EPG data, or whatsoever EIT, PAT all those, are filtered out. This post has been edited by joshhd: Apr 5 2020, 05:20 PM |
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Apr 5 2020, 05:27 PM
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#671
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Senior Member
7,794 posts Joined: Dec 2014 From: Malaysia
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Each MYTV's 256QAM mux has a total bandwidth of 34Mbps (confirmed by MYTV engineer persons). So by looking at "overall bit rate", now you know how many Mbps remaining they can still pump in to their existing mux.
Will the day comes when they officially use the third mux, to accommodate more channels? We shall see. Here are the MediaInfo for both Mux 1 and Mux 2. Only Audio and Video section are shown. EPG data are excluded, cuz it's too long... MediaInfo for Mux 1: » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « MediaInfo for Mux 2: » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « This post has been edited by joshhd: Apr 5 2020, 05:30 PM |
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Apr 5 2020, 05:47 PM
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Senior Member
1,072 posts Joined: Dec 2012
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QUOTE(joshhd @ Apr 5 2020, 05:20 PM) Video bitrate check on Mux 1 and Mux 2 Glad to see the bitrates has back to normal/usual. Still not good however. Audio bitrate check on Mux 1 and Mux 2 Radio channels on Mux 2: Well, from this graph, now you know what's the bitrate they're using. And do note that I've filtered all data to display for only Video track and Audio track as what you can see above. Those subtitle tracks, EPG data, or whatsoever EIT, PAT all those, are filtered out. This post has been edited by shaun_kok: Apr 5 2020, 05:48 PM |
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Apr 5 2020, 05:51 PM
Show posts by this member only | IPv6 | Post
#673
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Senior Member
7,794 posts Joined: Dec 2014 From: Malaysia
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QUOTE(shaun_kok @ Apr 5 2020, 05:47 PM) Glad to see the bitrates has back to normal/usual. Still not good however. Errr no... There's no change in video bitrate since last time also. And the video bitrate, yes, still low. |
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Apr 5 2020, 10:36 PM
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Senior Member
1,276 posts Joined: Sep 2018 From: Ampang
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Interesting that the TV audio bitrate is so low, while the radio stations are close to 128kbps, which is not bad for rather lofi programming radio stations
The original tender asked for two multiplexes with the option of a third in more developed areas. 256 QAM was not favoured because we were supposed to get decent building penetration, something that has definitely not happened. |
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Apr 5 2020, 10:43 PM
Show posts by this member only | IPv6 | Post
#675
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Senior Member
6,103 posts Joined: Apr 2009 From: Marang, Terengganu
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QUOTE(dayojah @ Apr 5 2020, 10:36 PM) Interesting that the TV audio bitrate is so low, while the radio stations are close to 128kbps, which is not bad for rather lofi programming radio stations I think the shopping channels should've got their own mux for flexible.The original tender asked for two multiplexes with the option of a third in more developed areas. 256 QAM was not favoured because we were supposed to get decent building penetration, something that has definitely not happened. |
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Apr 6 2020, 12:48 AM
Show posts by this member only | IPv6 | Post
#676
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Senior Member
7,794 posts Joined: Dec 2014 From: Malaysia
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QUOTE(dayojah @ Apr 5 2020, 10:36 PM) Interesting that the TV audio bitrate is so low, while the radio stations are close to 128kbps, which is not bad for rather lofi programming radio stations Hmm?? I thought I've mentioned about this since long long time ago? The original tender asked for two multiplexes with the option of a third in more developed areas. 256 QAM was not favoured because we were supposed to get decent building penetration, something that has definitely not happened.  MYTV have been using 32kbps / 48kbps of HE-AAC v2 audio codec since the beginning (pretty much la). I did some experiment in audio bitrate stuff, and although HE-AAC v2 can provide barely-acceptable audio quality at very low bitrate, it is considered barely acceptable for voice. But definitely not for music and movies. If you listen using earphones, you'll realise that the audio quality is much worst than what you hear from a good analogue TV reception channels. If they want to use low bitrate and provide good-to-near-excellent audio quality, use at least 80kbps HE-AAC (not HE-AAC v2) will be my recommendation. --- About the 256QAM thing, MYTV don't care about indoor coverage also. All they want is how to provide the highest Mbps bandwidth at the at lowest costs/muxes possible. As long "this large area" has coverage, then ok already. If your reception is bad, you go and buy new outdoor antenna. From there, those local installers will have new job opportunities to help people install new antenna and set up their digital TV. So what for making your DTT reception so robust?  Making DTT reception robust benefits the viewer, but it costs more to the broadcaster (MYTV), so to them, they'll be like "What for??? Money is more important to us. "This post has been edited by joshhd: Apr 6 2020, 12:52 AM |
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Apr 6 2020, 11:02 AM
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Senior Member
1,276 posts Joined: Sep 2018 From: Ampang
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Low bitrate audio is acceptable for the news or shopping channels.
I agree with you, ~80 kbps is what you need for the talent programs and movies. It would be interesting to find out what Astro give, but their encryption makes it hard to find out. One reason for the over-compression is the distribution costs. we were not allowed to propose satellite in the bids and TM rates are scary. |
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Apr 6 2020, 11:57 AM
Show posts by this member only | IPv6 | Post
#678
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Senior Member
7,794 posts Joined: Dec 2014 From: Malaysia
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QUOTE(dayojah @ Apr 6 2020, 11:02 AM) Low bitrate audio is acceptable for the news or shopping channels. Astro's audio bitrate is:I agree with you, ~80 kbps is what you need for the talent programs and movies. It would be interesting to find out what Astro give, but their encryption makes it hard to find out. One reason for the over-compression is the distribution costs. we were not allowed to propose satellite in the bids and TM rates are scary. 64kbps HE-AAC for its Stereo tracks in HD channels 384kbps/448kbps (few channels only) AC3 for its Dolby 5.1 track in HD channels. 224-256kbps E-AC3 Dolby Digital Plus audio codec is used for UHD channels. 192kbps MP2 audio for its SD channels and radio channels. |
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Apr 6 2020, 01:58 PM
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Senior Member
1,276 posts Joined: Sep 2018 From: Ampang
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QUOTE(joshhd @ Apr 6 2020, 11:57 AM) Astro's audio bitrate is: Thanks for that64kbps HE-AAC for its Stereo tracks in HD channels 384kbps/448kbps (few channels only) AC3 for its Dolby 5.1 track in HD channels. 224-256kbps E-AC3 Dolby Digital Plus audio codec is used for UHD channels. 192kbps MP2 audio for its SD channels and radio channels. 64kbps on their HD is mediocre. I have noticed occasionally that Astro sound is brick wall bandlimited I would put 192kbps MP2 at roughly equivalent to 128kbps MP3, so not bad and much better than you get with DAB |
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Apr 7 2020, 05:39 PM
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#680
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Junior Member
168 posts Joined: Sep 2008 From: MYHC
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Hi LYN,
i recently purchased a TV, Samsung nu7090 which i believe build in dvbt2 however i failed to scan any channel, tried googling but failed, do i need to purchase antenna? i lived in condo, not sure if the wall.socket is work or not, or my setup is wrong im using this cable https://shopee.com.my/product/45285202/4504054968?smtt=0.0.9 and plug to.wall.socket here  please help |
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