Mr. WongSF

According to scripture, the way to holiness, righteousness, obediance to God's law come by the way of putting oneself out of the bonds of the Law.

Meaning look away from it as something to be justified. How we do this is by looking to Christ, specifically to his Grace.

The way we live our Christian life is not by this teeth-gritting worrying unsure about own Salvation, sweating, etc etc.

It comes by the way of rest.

The only struggle permited by scripture is that we fight to enter into God's rest. ( Hebrews 4:11) It takes a lot of receiving from God. IF you understand what Resting in the Lord means.

You've mentioned the word Hyper Grace (hyperperisseúō), that is IN the Bible too.

I have to give you 2 verses


Romans 5:17 (NIV) - For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!


Verse 17 is telling us we need to receive abundance of God's Grace to reign..ie meaning to be victorious in the Christian Life.


Romans 5:20 (NIV) - The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more,

THe word Grace increase all the more in the Greek is huperperisseuó. (see the underline then check the Greek word)

It's there, you can study it.

Has anyone seen this yet?

https://www.facebook.com/222501581736097/vi...11127300117068/

Wow

it is April 1st today. so I don't know what to make of it

it seems the video has been showing for hours

Our Lord Jesus 2nd coming will be seen by the whole world.

If this is just 1 part of continent...I don't know could be 1st April thing or a small sign.


* I think the video is set on repeat mode, can hear some women saying Thank you in the same way over and over again.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Apr 1 2020, 01:37 PM

seem like its a prank

What you term as salvific faith, we Catholics call it justification,. Why the difference I have no idea though, perhaps extreme antinomianism in play. Penance etc after repentance is actually Biblical, in fact penance and repentance are quite synonymous in the Bible:

Matthew 4:17 - From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say: Do penance, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Matthew 11:20 - Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein were done the most of his miracles, for that they had not done penance.
Matthew 11:21 - Woe to thee, Corozain, woe to thee, Bethsaida: for if in Tyre and Sidon had been wrought the miracles that have been wrought in you, they had long ago done penance in sackcloth and ashes.
Matthew 12:41 - The men of Ninive shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they did penance at the preaching of Jonas. And behold a greater than Jonas here.

Luke 3:8 - Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of penance; and do not begin to say, We have Abraham for our father. For I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children to Abraham.
Luke 5:32 - I came not to call the just, but sinners to penance.
Luke 10:13 - Woe to thee, Corozain, woe to thee, Bethsaida. For if in Tyre and Sidon had been wrought the mighty works that have been wrought in you, they would have done penance long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes.
Luke 11:32 - The men of Ninive shall rise in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it; because they did penance at the preaching of Jonas; and behold more than Jonas here.
Luke 13:3 - No, I say to you: but unless you shall do penance, you shall all likewise perish.
Luke 13:5 - No, I say to you; but except you do penance, you shall all likewise perish.
Luke 15:7 - I say to you, that even so there shall be joy in heaven upon one sinner that doth penance, more than upon ninety-nine just who need not penance.
Luke 15:10 - So I say to you, there shall be joy before the angels of God upon one sinner doing penance.
Luke 16:30 - But he said: No, father Abraham: but if one went to them from the dead, they will do penance.
Luke 3:8-11 - Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of penance; and do not begin to say, We have Abraham for our father. For I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children to Abraham. 9 For now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that bringeth not forth good fruit, shall be cut down and cast into the fire. 10 And the people asked him, saying: What then shall we do? 11 And he answering, said to them: He that hath two coats, let him give to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do in like manner.
Luke 17:3 - Take heed to yourselves. If thy brother sin against thee, reprove him: and if he do penance, forgive him.
Luke 24:47 - And that penance and remission of sins should be preached in his name, unto all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Rev 2:4-5 - But I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first charity. 5 Be mindful therefore from whence thou art fallen: and do penance, and do the first works. Or else I come to thee, and will move thy candlestick out of its place, except thou do penance.

Of course I realize some of you here thinks that penance is a dirty word in Christianity, something peculiar only to Catholics, and all that is needed was a genuine sense of sorrow for sin. Some even say that sorrow for sin was not needed. They claimed that repentance merely meant that you intellectually changed the way you thought from that moment forwards without any reference to past actions. I won't get into that debate here as I realize there are a multitude of denominations here having different ideas/teachings about that.

https://www.facebook.com/Test-1-222501581736097/

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Because that statement of mine applies only to a non-believer coming into faith in Jesus Christ as a new born-again Christian, ie my statement does not apply to already-born-again believers, especially mature Christians like yourself, as per REV.22: 12-17, 1COR.6:9-11, GAL.5:19-21, HEB.10:26-31 & 6:1-8 = a mature Christian who continue unrepentantly to sin willfully/intentionally or practice lawlessness will suffer the earthly curses/punishments of God or His agents and will also not inherit the kingdom of God in heaven. It's the difference between the "before and after" coming into faith or becoming a Christian.
....... IOW, if you apply my statement above to already-born-again Christians, you are going into error or false teachings.

OTOH, even the worst sinners, like murderers(eg Paul), adulterers, robbers, prostitutes(eg Mary Magdalene), tax-collectors for the hated Romans, etc could be saved from hell by becoming a born-again Christian through new-found faith in Jesus Christ, as per 1COR.6:9-11. .......

1COR.6: = 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
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REV.22: = Jesus Testifies to the Churches

12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”

14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”

17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.
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I asked you when was the dispensation of grace? You did not answer.
It seems that you define it as Israel from Egypt to Sinai and the NON grace...to Jesus.....and after Jesus.
What happened to Adam to Moses? And after Sinai to Jesus? Did they live by the Law?
What happened to David who lived between Sinai and Jesus?

The Laws of God TRIGGERS sin? Are you blaming the Law for your sin?

The Law defines Sin

Romans 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

While you are at it, study Romans 7 and 8.

And Paul calls the Law , SCHOOLMASTER

Jesus, full of grace and TRUTH. TRUTH encompasses Torah. Do you understand Torah?
Jesus came to magnify Torah as He was TRUTH in person.
There is NO Law vs Grace theology. This is from the anti-Semitic thought of Luther reformation fallacy.

You think the Law was destroyed when Jesus came. He refutes you..

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Yes. Indeed Jesus magnified TRUTH

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

The Torah and the Navihim(prophets) is totally found in Jesus.


Indeed, God's scriptures is very strong on Grace THROUGHout scriptures.

I have mentioned this before, Jesus actually increased the moral requirement in the New Testament compared to the Old Testament:

21 You have heard that it was said to them of old: Thou shalt not kill. And whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment.
22 But I say to you, that whosoever is angry with his brother, shall be in danger of the judgment. And whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council. And whosoever shall say, Thou Fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
23 If therefore thou offer thy gift at the altar, and there thou remember that thy brother hath any thing against thee;
24 Leave there thy offering before the altar, and go first to be reconciled to thy brother: and then coming thou shalt offer thy gift.
25 Be at agreement with thy adversary betimes, whilst thou art in the way with him: lest perhaps the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
26 Amen I say to thee, thou shalt not go out from thence till thou repay the last farthing.
27 You have heard that it was said to them of old: Thou shalt not commit adultery.
28 But I say to you, that whosoever shall look on a woman to lust after her, hath already committed adultery with her in his heart.

I do not think Jesus increased anything.
He came to enlighten what the Law was all about. And its not writings on the stone.

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

When Jesus declared this, the term 'to fulfil' in Rabbinic terms is to teach it properly. Likewise, to destroy the Law is to teach it erroneously, which the teachers of the Law were doing.
Its also important to note that teaching does not just mean a verbal discourse. In Jewish mindset, teaching is also shown by the evidence of the life of the person. That is the reason Truth was walking amongst the Jews at the time.

Therefore, in the following chapters, you see Jesus expounding on what the Law is all about.

No, not on stones, He write the law on our heart, hebrews 10:16

He give us ability to obey laws

This post has been edited by desmond2020: Apr 1 2020, 02:32 PM

Exactly. Before that the Law was written on stone.

It was never meant to be read as on stones, but in spirit.

So when TRUTH walked amongst the Jews and taught them the spirit of the Torah, they exclaimed

28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Apr 1 2020, 02:38 PM

Increase in the sense that, adultery for example is already committed by lusting after someone even if the physical act wasn't done. For us Catholics we have the following prayer at the beginning of the Traditional Mass:

I confess to Almighty God,
to blessed Mary ever Virgin,
to blessed Michael the Archangel
to blessed John the Baptist,
to the holy Apostles Peter and Paul,
to all the Saints, and to you, brethren,
that I have sinned exceedingly
in thought, word and deed:
through my fault, through my fault,
through my most grievous fault.
Therefore I beseech blessed Mary ever Virgin,
blessed Michael the Archangel,
blessed John the Baptist,
the holy Apostles Peter and Paul,
all the Saints, and you, brethren,
to pray for me to the Lord our God.

In the New Mass it is simplified to the following plus including sins of omission:

I confess to almighty God
and to you, my brothers and sisters,
that I have greatly sinned,
in my thoughts and in my words,
in what I have done and in what I have failed to do,
through my fault, through my fault,
through my most grievous fault;
therefore I ask blessed Mary ever-Virgin,
all the Angels and Saints,
and you, my brothers and sisters,
to pray for me to the Lord our God.

This post has been edited by yeeck: Apr 1 2020, 02:44 PM

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In the context of the 4 Gospels and ACTS in the New Testament, Jesus Christ was preaching to His fellow Jews who had been keeping God's Law or Moses Law for about 1,500 years, ie since the days of Moses at about 1500 BC. So, the Jews and apostles understood very well what Jesus Christ meant when He referred to the Law and the Prophets, eg that He did not come down to earth to destroy the Law but to fulfil it or LUKE.16:16, MATT.7:12 & 19:16-22 & 22:37-40. Similarly for the various apostolic epistles or letters in the NT, eg when Paul mentioned the Law.
....... IOW, the Law and the Prophets in the NT gospels plainly referred to the Old Testament, ie from GENESIS to MALACHI.

uw is publicly confessing that nobody, including mature Christians, can actually keep the Law, which may be a false statement because even Jews and Greeks/Gentiles could keep the Law, either knowingly or unknowingly - MATT.19:20, ROMANS.2:14 = not commit willful or intentional sins/law-breaking/evil-deeds/unrighteousness. Other Christians may interpret uw's statement as it is OK for them to commit willful or intentional sins/law-breaking/evil-deeds/unrighteousness and still be saved from hell by faith since nobody can actually keep the Law. = as if faith has given them the license-to-sin = to even commit intentional sins/law-breaking/evil-deeds/unrighteousness with full assurance of forgiveness and salvation.

But if uw actually meant nobody can actually not commit involuntary or unintentional sins-in-thoughts occasionally and/or nobody can actually not commit unintentional sins once-in-awhile, then that is OK.
....... IOW, uw needs to elaborate on what he actually meant by "nobody can actually keep the Law", in order to clear up mis-teachings or misunderstanding.

LUKE.16:19-31 says that the rich young Jewish man died and was sent to Hades for not keeping the Law at DEUT.15:11, ie by intentionally not doing charity to the poor every Sabbath year. Beggar Lazarus died and was sent to heaven for keeping the Law, ie he did not commit intentional or willful sins/law-breaking, like stealing. Lazarus might have committed unintentional sins but these were forgivable by animal blood sacrifice = no curse/punishment from God or His agents. See also 1PETER.3:19 & 4:6, MATT.17:3 & 27:52.
Good day.
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I seriously think you should NOT advertise your Roman Catholic menu here.

The RCC is one of the woes of Christianity past and present. You have brought numerous pagan rituals into the faith.
You should seriously repent of your Marian idolatry before the Lord makes an impending judgement.

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Apr 1 2020, 02:49 PM

The Lutherans use almost the same formula except that they used the term "before the whole company of heaven" in place of the names of the saints. There is nothing idolatrous asking the prayers of fellow saints and brethren to pray for us to the Lord our God. You on the other hand should snap out of your anti-Catholic bias less the Lord avenge His Mother and His saints of you dishonouring them.

This post has been edited by yeeck: Apr 1 2020, 03:14 PM

Actually what you say does not even make any sense.

A Mature Christian would be one who is spirtually matured in the Lord and one who understands what is sin
and why sin is wrong and thus with the spiritual maturity given or blessed would not want to sin.

I did answer you.

The dispensation was given in that period, it is to understand how God treats his people. Yes the Israel travelling from Egypt to Sinai. None of them died during that period. You seem to want to ignore this. Go ahead and study this.
After the Law was given by Moses that is the age of the Old Covenant..ie Covenant of God's Law. When Jesus came, He ushered in Grace.

As I've repeated so many times. Only Jesus could fufill the Law, that is why the Law was waiting for Him. That why Christ said, He did not come to destroy the Law. If anyone could fufilled it, Jesus need not die on the cross. Jesus need not come and there is no need to call Him Saviour, think about this. But once Christ has fufilled the Law, the Law's custody on us believer is broken. (Galatians 3:25) (Romans 7:6)

And Jesus unleash that Law for unbelievers (Verse 19), why? As I've said it is design to bring Man to the end of himself. You lump this law requirement for the believer is not correct, it's an error.

But for the Believers we are no longer under the Law. It's back by scripture verse all over the place.

Yes that's why Grace is actually called the Gospel.

The Law does trigger sin in us, it does not just define it. (Romans 7:8) I've given you those 3 scriptures, if you keep ignoring it, then forget it, that is up to you but it's there.

I think you have problem reading what I write. If that's the case, no wonder it's never ending between you and me.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Apr 1 2020, 04:30 PM