I just find out the Collective KL church is formerly known as a City harvest church, the "CON" church

Kong Hee and 6 others church leader was arrested for allegedly siphoning off nearly $40 million from the church’s.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-24...star-dream.html

Kong Hee (founder of City Harvest Church and Collective KL church) Pastor's wife song "China wine" LOLX
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x7WcpIsM3c&t=3s

- December 12 2018 -
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/cour...f-attempting-to

Source
https://helenang.wordpress.com/2012/07/07/l...s-dream-center/




How can Malaysia allow them operate here in Malaysia?

This post has been edited by whitefong: Jan 11 2019, 06:05 PM

Malaysia, paradise for conman

now oni u noe ar? congrats for getting out of ur cave

collective church changed name to collective to dissociate themselves frm city harvest singapore and their scandals

Your news is 10 years late

is not 10 years old news lolx, the latest is 2018. The scandal start from 10 years ago untill today. Long term scam

This post has been edited by whitefong: Jan 14 2019, 12:09 AM

You want the govt to govern churches?

Not so sure, but in the United state they did "seperate the church from the state". I guess the move is to prevent scammer, to scam money in the name of God

now oni found out?

Yes. But unfortunately, still a lot people have no clue about this

You had better have a good reason to claim that this particular church is a scam

Realise that right now you are saying something like, "Burger King Singapore is a scammer, how can Malaysia Govt allow Mcd to operate"

P.S. wow. That blog is pretty toxic.

This post has been edited by agent sawyer: Jan 11 2019, 12:37 AM

It is obvious they share a same founder "Kong Hee", it is written in the media even their own website
Burger king and McDonald is formed by different founder dude
I don't find the blog is toxic, she is telling the truth



This post has been edited by whitefong: Jan 11 2019, 12:43 AM

Helen Ang.

Oh....

The definition of "founder" is not the same as "shareholder"

Besides, you accused Collective KL of being a scam. Do you have any proof?

Not at all

There are many parts of her article that are not only false but frankly repulsive to read

Such great hate evident in her words...

siapa tu? share share...

It is not an accuse, it is all over in the media dude. What do you mean a great hate? She is alarmed the people
Spreading such a news is part of social responsibility, how can you twist the story around?
Are you accusing the Singapore government did a wrong thing as well?

This post has been edited by whitefong: Jan 11 2019, 12:50 AM

I'm not saying SG Govt is wrong, I'm saying you and that woman are wrong because you don't understand the 2 churches are separate entities with different practices and different corporate governance.

But anyway, are you accusing Collective KL of fraud?

Go make a police report if you dare. Isn't that part of "social responsibility"? Go on, do it.

This post has been edited by agent sawyer: Jan 11 2019, 01:08 AM

wats collective kl?

penunggang agama?

i think a church is of course tunggang agama.

I'm sorry to say, the fact is Pr.Kong Hee name is everywhere on the website, furthermore the Collective KL website should not emphasize the scammer "Kong Hee" name and appreciate him like an idol. This will kill Christianity reputation even further
I'm sure you already know, Europe, UK and US are suffering a huge decline of Christianity, the scammer is the reason behind
The blogger herself is Christianity, what are you talking about? she is worrying. You are protecting the scammer or christian? I'm curious
If you are a christian you should just switch to others church, that's all. Why you sound like an angry man?

any form of donation is a scam?

Go read her blog to form your own opinion.

Which website?


wrong
his name is only mentioned in one paragraph, it's not "everywhere" nor is it "emphasized"


wrong
Collective KL's website doesn't "appreciate" him "like an idol" at all. Just a mention of the influence he did in founding the church.


wrong
The CHC Singapore scandal isn't so influential as to cause a "huge decline of Christianity" in Europe, UK and US

wrong

Helen Ang is apparently a buddhist

Of course she sounds worrying, her blog is all about attacking these (usual) targets for her political masters. Knowing the churches' position in Malaysia's political and social landscape, I'm not surprised at all.


wrong

There is no scammer to protect here, because you are just making up stories with no proof

Why do you sound like a batu api with no proof?

Are you illiterate? Or just want to argue without purpose? All previous posts and screenshot already shown, you sure Kong Hee name only shows in one paragraph (But you just admit his name is inside Collective KL website). Definitely the "huge decline of Christianity" is not caused by CHC dude. It's cause by irresponsible evangelical from the west.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjPtXla7fJ4&t=92s (BBC, Fox almost all media report)

How do you know she is a buddhist? beside I'm talking about scammer right now, not religion why you so furious?

Then why don't Collective KL just remove Kong Hee name? Can explain? I really don't get it

This post has been edited by whitefong: Jan 11 2019, 02:05 AM

That has nothing to do with it. They separate the church from the state because that is what a secular government is supposed to do; govern based on man-made laws and not based on the words of some ancient weed smokers. They have plenty of Megachurches in the US that are even more ludicrous than City Harvest Church. Their pastors drive luxury cars and fly in private jets thanks to the donations made by their Megachurches' congregations.

https://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/13/living/c...feat/index.html
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/eddie-...al-dies-n707106
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/how-mu...4b0ab468d9f583d

Doesn't seem like they're under the same organization tbh. Unless he's lying of course

many dap member there

I help u rephrase..

coz it did nothing wrong, yet? at least in malaysia la

lol

popcorn.gif

con church

city 'harvest' church

lmfao

The City Harvest case happened in Singapore under their law. And this church in Malaysia haven’t broke any law locally. Even same person in-charge/started it, doesn’t mean automatic guilty, I guess.

well, I don't know why you call them a con church. Do you believe that the earth is only 6000 years old and dinosaurs never existed?

Protek protek

how many pages this thread later?or no potential?

cant go far becoz bukan agama bumi..

o wai

Way i look at it. MD of company A broke the rule. MD went to jail. We should ban company A

Wat cock u talk

This

Serius penunggang agama imo. Don’t know what in his mind when he founded the megachurch in the first place. For christianity or for money.

Hadi bigger con lah

Even can be elected

Many members here, the fact is MD and A company owned by the same person. It is not a cock, it is a scam
It is very simple for a company A not to involve, just remove the "Kong Hee" scammer name. End of story
But we don't understand why Company A refuse to remove the name

Many Con today, worst than MLM or money game
They are more "Legal"
But I guess Kong Hee is much biggest Con, Singaporean actually compare Kong Hee with Najib
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DxlLf5DY_8&t=167s

This post has been edited by whitefong: Jan 11 2019, 07:47 AM

all i see in this thread is penunggang agama and their borg followers who try their best to sound rational, but are not

but since no keyword, then 3 pages onli loh.....

Not sure why should remove the name.

Lol u mean Kong hee owns the church? If like that why is he in jail since he owns the church all money belongs to him.

Anyway. By your account Volkswagen should change name too since they scam so many ppl with the carbon emission thingy and the MD is being persecuted.

For the record I am not into city harvest thingsly. Just feel we should be balance. The head did something wrong and he is paying for it does not means the whole church is wrong . My 2 cents

Actually put his name not bad ma...so lol will stay away...

This post has been edited by takadanicklagi: Jan 11 2019, 07:54 AM

No offence
Singapolion little little thing they feel like mountains

King hee misused the fund
50m at most

Najib???

Same???

Entire mh370
Bank founder
INSPEKTOR Kevin

Kong hee is wat?


Singkie always singkie
Small world
Small heart
Small brain

If Kong Hee have no connection with Collective KL church, just remove the name as simple as that. In jail can't own any money from the church? Don't get what you mean lolx
Of course you must not admire or even thanks to the scammer, this is misleading. Just ike you should not admire Hitler who kill 6 million of jews, That simple dude, stop twisting


Collective KL church content:
Pr. Kong Hee as he was my Bible School principal and someone that I’ve always looked up to. I shared with him my vision and I was so thankful to God that Pr. Kong agreed to disciple me.

Under Pr. Kong’s leadership, our vision grew and our capacity enlarged. We began to dream bigger dreams for our city. From sleepless nights to wakeless mornings, we worked and worked. And revival came knocking. From having services in classrooms to having a place we can call our own. From a handful of students meeting in a flat to a thriving multi-generational congregation today, it has truly been an amazing ride. Without Pr. Kong and his wife Sun, we wouldn’t be where we are today. City Harvest is not just a name that we have carried but an identity we have come to embrace.

This post has been edited by whitefong: Jan 11 2019, 08:05 AM

Yala should ban UMNO too since so many singing praise of najib. His pic still in umno building

Since when la I twist.

So u saying Hong kee owns the church? He still drawing salary from that church?

how do u determine this church is a con?...because i know quite a few ppl that attend this church

did the church ask their followers to contribute money?

i know a church that is a clear con because the church ask their followers to contribute 2/3 of their salary to the church

You're the one totally confused about this situation to the point of accusing this church of a crime, and you're calling me illiterate?

Better than accusing people of crime without purpose or proof

WOW. And this is your "proof" that Collective KL is a scammer

Go on, submit this as "proof" in a report to PDRM. I dare you. I double dare you. Go on, Mr. Socially Responsible.


Exactly. Which is why your earlier statement is wrong.

Some people commenting on her posts identify her as Buddhist, and if you read her posts you'll see she does show signs of that


NO. You're not talking about "scammer" right now, you're talking about an innocent church as if they are proven scammers

I could describe my current activity as talking to a "slanderous liar" with more proof than you have

Because whatever else he did in his church, he did also inspire the pastors of Collective KL to found their church

You're so smart to read their website but you can't understand this?

And dare to call people "illiterate"... haiz

I'm not a member

but I know people who go there

you can say I'm concerned with their reputation, so yes, if I see some moron slandering them even if it's just /ktard stupidity, I'll jump in and "protek"

Prosperity gospel


Enough said

penunggang agama datang dari pelbagai lapisan masyarakat

wahh really daring

It goes to show that the congregation in CHC were blessed by God by their worship in that church, hence the fervour. Kong Hee was just the facilitator. God heals, not Kong Hee heals. If he had abused his pastoral and administrative position then let God deal with him. Going around labelling churches as con without proof is unreasonable.

lol the amount of dislike. other christian be like...wowowow..haram

Ppl who join all these cult religions have no brains of their own?

All herd mentality .. and kind of obsessed...or possessed.

These church are rich yo, look at their building and event. I wondering where is the money spend to.

But i'm not christian lah, none of my business also.

Eh eh eh

we have PAS , do you really think u could separate religion from gahmen in Malaysia?

btw what church u going to ? im sure i can dig up some scandal in there. Most churches have their "hidden sins", but I thought the religion preach about grace and forgiveness and yet you tell me you still hold man accountable for God's judgment ?

A church in Subang Jaya. Next to UCSI school.

Lets just put it this way. A church is supposed to be a place of worship nothing more. They are not supposed to run a church like a freaking business.

If u step inside collective kl, theres a futsal court which is open to public, theres a cafe, and they even rent out their lobby space for events.

Yes donations to church are acceptable. But the fact is they run this church like a business establishment. Thats why ppl are not so comfortable with it.

Careful..they don’t like criticism. Got lipoted liao..sigh

That why they lose the election, That simple? how he received the money, who know? may be he just using his relative account or such
I start to curious, you probably don't understand my question

I said Collective KL churches must not put Kong Hee name and his wife Sun on the website, should not show gratitude to both scammer. This is like praising the bad guy like Hitler, who kills 6 million

I hope the follower here stop twist the story around. If you are sincere and faithful christian, you should inform the church remove the scammer name, not here to twist my words; I guess this is the main reason why the huge decline of Christianity happened in the US, UK or Europe, because the follower is not rational we talk A, they answer B

faith is faith, bad people is bad people. The follower must not blindly protect the scammer

willing donor, willing receiver.
what's scamming about that?

should we judge them or let God judge them ?

I dont think they care about the few ringgit they earn from renting out the space. How much can the cafe earn anyway if traffic is only on weekends. Its meant to be a community centre.

waiting for trigger

do you remember planetshakers had mike gugliemucci scandal , or right now Hillsongs has the Ps Houston scandal, even then will you stop listening to their music bcos of 1 bad apple ?

Amazing only in Malaysia they use music to "recruit" new followers.. Cos they realize, the younger generation can only be "roped in" by music. How sad Christianity has become. It's more like running a business these days.

Then once they rope you in, they pressure you into paying 10% of your salary. If you don't contribute, you won't receive blessings in the future in your life or you don't love Jesus enough.

Then after you keep paying, now it's your duty to recruit others to "save them" when judgement day comes.

Rinse and repeat.

Just hope Collective isn't one of these new breed of churches with the above attributes.

churches have been around for ages and nothing has changed about them. they are utilized by people to manipulate others for own personal gains.

i have yet to see a really impartial church that doesn't focus around "monies".

U are mad. Do u know how much they renting out their space?

I have seen Mini doing a car launch there b4.

They rent out 10-20k for a few hours event.

Their cafe is a proper cafe with full equipment setup for example proper espresso machine and full array of cakes etc. Its like a proper cafe u see outside. They make alot since the stuff is not cheap as well. And there is always ppl in the cafe.

Its called grey sky morning. Go google. Btw, they even have a barber as well. But not sure if still running.

"They are not supposed to run a church like a business"
and
"They should not engage in business activities"
and
"They should not engage in ANY business activities AT ALL"

are 3 very different things. I'm going to talk about point 1 in relation to the cafe.

The facilities in the church are mainly for their own use. You know I know that hardly anyone will come into the church just to drink coffee. Obviously there has to be a charge for the usage of the facilities/consumption of the goods. Anybody who runs F&B will know that the cafe is unlikely to be profitable.

It's a very far step from having a designated, essentially subsidised cafe, to "running a church like a business". That's something else entirely.

The "event space" will be similar, and again for similar reasons. Usually events are going to be held by fellow Christian organisations.

What are the alternatives? Well e.g. my church runs a canteen on 100% donation basis, where someone just tops up the Nescafe when it runs out. I don't entirely agree with that, I believe there should be a nominal charge for the consumer. Well they are small enough that they don't feel the pinch. But if they had a congregation in the 1000s, coffee money becomes a significant amount.

You twisted the whole thing to suit your own views.

TS attitude is must black out their name entirely, like the emperors of ancient kingdoms did to traitors

anyway congrats TS, you have successfully attracted the church-hating denizens of /k, since this is going to be a bashing thread shortly I'll be seeing myself out

indeed, the same can be said for any religion, any philosophy, any cause

This post has been edited by agent sawyer: Jan 11 2019, 10:28 AM

Ok, assume you are right. What is wrong with enterprise?

Church is like temple or mosque, definetely you can donate accordingly
However, the pastor should not spend church money' for personal luxury lifestyle, this is why the Singapore government sends them to jail
As a Malaysian we should fully aware of the church Kong Hee involved, and should not donate single cent to any church Kong Hee and another 6 leader involved.

And Jesus entered the temple and drove out all who sold and bought in the temple, and he overturned the tables of the money-changers and the seats of those who sold pigeons. He said to them, "It is written, 'My house shall be called a house of prayer,' but you make it a den of robbers." And the blind and the lame came to him in the temple, and he healed them. But when the chief priests and the scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying out in the temple, "Hosanna to the Son of David!" they were indignant, and they said to him, "Do you hear what these are saying?" And Jesus said to them, "Yes; have you never read, "'Out of the mouth of infants and nursing babies you have prepared praise'?" And leaving them, he went out of the city to Bethany and lodged there.
Matthew 21:12‭-‬17 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.21.12-17.ESV

The scamming is in the teachings. Prosperity gospel. Fakery

I see you are very passionate in this issue which is fine for me. It is not up to me to remove them I am indifferent. More the better if they put his face there so other ppl know and be weary.

Also pls tell me how i twist your word and i will amend it

Btw not protecting him. In fact I think God forbid he should be jailed for his wrong doing. His wife too.

In anycase your allegation on him continue receiving money is...hmmm anyway I dont care he will be in jail anyway....

at least they are not into politics... i think they tried... but lee bashed them with his iron fist

i see... do they pray in tongue?

Wow so they are cult group.

They do

Dunno who’ll be one in the end. You can’t be too sure. I may have the last laugh.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_Harvest_Church

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/cour...harvest-trial-0

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/cour...jail-terms-kong

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/city...erm-wife-sun-ho

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/rise...uperstar-pastor

https://mustsharenews.com/things-kong-hee-owns/

https://mothership.sg/2015/11/kong-hee-sun-...ves-in-3-years/

http://finance.theindependent.sg/luxury-se...over-2-million/

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/cour...oatman-remanded


This post has been edited by newbie: Jan 11 2019, 10:47 AM

With your last statement, I am looking at one NOW.

That's why I said you can go any other church, there is plenty of churches out there. I don't understand why the follower so furious. If you are faithful, there are so many churches in Malaysia. Why you must donate the money to the obvious Con church with Kong Hee name?
Progressive church usually allows people to ask questions, only the conservative church will keep protect the wrong things
Conservative christian example : Donald Trump
So you should advise the church to remove Kong Hee name, not here argue with me

Yada yada yada...I’m prepared to be condemned to hell or whatever it is. Are you?

Funny that TS keep saying the church should remove kong hee's name.

Transparent salah

Conceal tak salah

Phailed logic

It's like your teacher in secondary taught you good good, you get banyak A in all exams, now doing well in life thanks to his teachings. Then one day you found out your teacher robbed a bank and got caught, so then you dissociate yourself from your teacher. Even though you know without him, you won't be successful today.

Same goes for the relationship between the founder and Kong Hee.

They renounce their ties with Kong Hee's church by changing name to dissociate themselves from the scandal.

Fact wise, that without Kong Hee's guidance, there won't be Collective KL or CHCKL or whatever their name will be. So from here it's easy to play "anak derhaka", by denouncing Kong Hee or doing what you suggested; but they didn't, gratitude is gratitude, and it is a personal gratitude. So when people ask :"So did Kong Hee guided this church?" Are they gonna answer, oh no no , we don't know and we hate Kong Hee which a blatant lie and go against the principle of the Bible?

This post has been edited by less1234: Jan 11 2019, 10:54 AM

Trademark will be like a section of the website dedicated to donation where credit card payment is accepted

TS is memang anti religion in the first place

all this is just wayang to push his actual agenda

Funny la u....why I should ask them to remove it. I drive BMW i go ask Volkswagen why your CEO still there ..

Anyway...are you attending that church ahh?