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> Collective KL could be a "CON" church

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TSwhitefong
post Jan 10 2019, 11:50 PM, updated 2y ago

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I just find out the Collective KL church is formerly known as a City harvest church, the "CON" church

Kong Hee and 6 others church leader was arrested for allegedly siphoning off nearly $40 million from the church’s.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-24...star-dream.html

Kong Hee (founder of City Harvest Church and Collective KL church) Pastor's wife song "China wine" LOLX
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x7WcpIsM3c&t=3s

- December 12 2018 -
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/cour...f-attempting-to

Source
https://helenang.wordpress.com/2012/07/07/l...s-dream-center/

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How can Malaysia allow them operate here in Malaysia?

This post has been edited by whitefong: Jan 11 2019, 06:05 PM
nintendo86
post Jan 10 2019, 11:52 PM

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Malaysia, paradise for conman
rooney723
post Jan 10 2019, 11:59 PM

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now oni u noe ar? congrats for getting out of ur cave

collective church changed name to collective to dissociate themselves frm city harvest singapore and their scandals
Starbucki
post Jan 11 2019, 12:01 AM

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Your news is 10 years late
Fat & Fluffy
post Jan 11 2019, 12:03 AM

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Fat & Fluffy
post Jan 11 2019, 12:06 AM

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TSwhitefong
post Jan 11 2019, 12:09 AM

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QUOTE(Starbucki @ Jan 11 2019, 12:01 AM)
Your news is 10 years late
*
is not 10 years old news lolx, the latest is 2018. The scandal start from 10 years ago untill today. Long term scam

This post has been edited by whitefong: Jan 14 2019, 12:09 AM
Starbucki
post Jan 11 2019, 12:12 AM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 12:09 AM)
But if it is 10 years old news, government never take any serious action?

Singaporean even compare 1MDB with this scandal, still a lot of Malaysian did not know this
*
You want the govt to govern churches?
TSwhitefong
post Jan 11 2019, 12:30 AM

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QUOTE(Starbucki @ Jan 11 2019, 12:12 AM)
You want the govt to govern churches?
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Not so sure, but in the United state they did "seperate the church from the state". I guess the move is to prevent scammer, to scam money in the name of God
Blofeld
post Jan 11 2019, 12:32 AM

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now oni found out?
TSwhitefong
post Jan 11 2019, 12:35 AM

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QUOTE(Blofeld @ Jan 11 2019, 12:32 AM)
now oni found out?
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Yes. But unfortunately, still a lot people have no clue about this
agent sawyer
post Jan 11 2019, 12:35 AM

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You had better have a good reason to claim that this particular church is a scam

Realise that right now you are saying something like, "Burger King Singapore is a scammer, how can Malaysia Govt allow Mcd to operate"

P.S. wow. That blog is pretty toxic.

This post has been edited by agent sawyer: Jan 11 2019, 12:37 AM
TSwhitefong
post Jan 11 2019, 12:41 AM

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QUOTE(agent sawyer @ Jan 11 2019, 12:35 AM)
You had better have a good reason to claim that this particular church is a scam

Realise that right now you are saying something like, "Burger King Singapore is a scammer, how can Malaysia Govt allow Mcd to operate"

P.S. wow. That blog is pretty toxic.
*
It is obvious they share a same founder "Kong Hee", it is written in the media even their own website
Burger king and McDonald is formed by different founder dude
I don't find the blog is toxic, she is telling the truth

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This post has been edited by whitefong: Jan 11 2019, 12:43 AM
joe_mamak
post Jan 11 2019, 12:42 AM

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Helen Ang.

Oh....
agent sawyer
post Jan 11 2019, 12:44 AM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 12:41 AM)
It is obvious they share a same founder "Kong Hee", it is written in the media
Burger king and McDonald is formed by different founder dude
The definition of "founder" is not the same as "shareholder"

Besides, you accused Collective KL of being a scam. Do you have any proof?

QUOTE
I don't find the blog is toxic, she is telling the truth
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Not at all

There are many parts of her article that are not only false but frankly repulsive to read

Such great hate evident in her words...
Fat & Fluffy
post Jan 11 2019, 12:48 AM

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QUOTE(joe_mamak @ Jan 11 2019, 02:42 AM)
Helen Ang. 

Oh....
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siapa tu? share share...
TSwhitefong
post Jan 11 2019, 12:48 AM

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QUOTE(agent sawyer @ Jan 11 2019, 12:44 AM)
The definition of "founder" is not the same as "shareholder"

Besides, you accused Collective KL of being a scam. Do you have any proof?
Not at all

There are many parts of her article that are not only false but frankly repulsive to read

Such great hate evident in her words...
*
It is not an accuse, it is all over in the media dude. What do you mean a great hate? She is alarmed the people
Spreading such a news is part of social responsibility, how can you twist the story around?
Are you accusing the Singapore government did a wrong thing as well?

This post has been edited by whitefong: Jan 11 2019, 12:50 AM
agent sawyer
post Jan 11 2019, 01:07 AM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 12:48 AM)
It is not an accuse, it is all over in the media dude. What do you mean a great hate? She is alarmed the people
Spreading such a news is part of social responsibility, how can you twist the story around?
Are you accusing the Singapore government did a wrong thing as well?
*
I'm not saying SG Govt is wrong, I'm saying you and that woman are wrong because you don't understand the 2 churches are separate entities with different practices and different corporate governance.

But anyway, are you accusing Collective KL of fraud?

Go make a police report if you dare. Isn't that part of "social responsibility"? Go on, do it.

This post has been edited by agent sawyer: Jan 11 2019, 01:08 AM
Fat & Fluffy
post Jan 11 2019, 01:11 AM

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wats collective kl?
Phoenix_KL
post Jan 11 2019, 01:12 AM

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JRocket
post Jan 11 2019, 01:21 AM

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penunggang agama?
Phoenix_KL
post Jan 11 2019, 01:23 AM

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QUOTE(JRocket @ Jan 11 2019, 01:21 AM)
penunggang agama?
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i think a church is of course tunggang agama.
TSwhitefong
post Jan 11 2019, 01:29 AM

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QUOTE(agent sawyer @ Jan 11 2019, 01:07 AM)
I'm not saying SG Govt is wrong, I'm saying you and that woman are wrong because you don't understand the 2 churches are separate entities with different practices and different corporate governance.

But anyway, are you accusing Collective KL of fraud?

Go make a police report if you dare. Isn't that part of "social responsibility"? Go on, do it.
*
I'm sorry to say, the fact is Pr.Kong Hee name is everywhere on the website, furthermore the Collective KL website should not emphasize the scammer "Kong Hee" name and appreciate him like an idol. This will kill Christianity reputation even further
I'm sure you already know, Europe, UK and US are suffering a huge decline of Christianity, the scammer is the reason behind
The blogger herself is Christianity, what are you talking about? she is worrying. You are protecting the scammer or christian? I'm curious
If you are a christian you should just switch to others church, that's all. Why you sound like an angry man?
iSean
post Jan 11 2019, 01:31 AM

iz old liao.
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any form of donation is a scam? laugh.gif
joe_mamak
post Jan 11 2019, 01:32 AM

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QUOTE(Fat & Fluffy @ Jan 11 2019, 12:48 AM)
siapa tu? share share...
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Go read her blog to form your own opinion.


agent sawyer
post Jan 11 2019, 01:44 AM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 01:29 AM)
I'm sorry to say, the fact is Pr.Kong Hee name is everywhere on the website,

Which website?

QUOTE
furthermore the Collective KL website should not emphasize the scammer "Kong Hee" name

wrong
his name is only mentioned in one paragraph, it's not "everywhere" nor is it "emphasized"

QUOTE
and appreciate him like an idol.

wrong
Collective KL's website doesn't "appreciate" him "like an idol" at all. Just a mention of the influence he did in founding the church.

QUOTE
I'm sure you already know, Europe, UK and US are suffering a huge decline of Christianity, the scammer is the reason behind

wrong
The CHC Singapore scandal isn't so influential as to cause a "huge decline of Christianity" in Europe, UK and US

QUOTE
The blogger herself is Christianity, what are you talking about? she is worrying.
wrong

Helen Ang is apparently a buddhist

Of course she sounds worrying, her blog is all about attacking these (usual) targets for her political masters. Knowing the churches' position in Malaysia's political and social landscape, I'm not surprised at all.

QUOTE
You are protecting the scammer or christian? I'm curious

wrong

There is no scammer to protect here, because you are just making up stories with no proof

QUOTE
If you are a christian you should just switch to others church, that's all. Why you sound like an angry man?
*
Why do you sound like a batu api with no proof?
TSwhitefong
post Jan 11 2019, 01:54 AM

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QUOTE(agent sawyer @ Jan 11 2019, 01:44 AM)
Which website?
wrong
his name is only mentioned in one paragraph, it's not "everywhere" nor is it "emphasized"
wrong
Collective KL's website doesn't "appreciate" him "like an idol" at all. Just a mention of the influence he did in founding the church.
wrong
The CHC Singapore scandal isn't so influential as to cause a "huge decline of Christianity" in Europe, UK and US
wrong

Helen Ang is apparently a buddhist

Of course she sounds worrying, her blog is all about attacking these (usual) targets for her political masters. Knowing the churches' position in Malaysia's political and social landscape, I'm not surprised at all.
wrong

There is no scammer to protect here, because you are just making up stories with no proof
Why do you sound like a batu api with no proof?
*
Are you illiterate? Or just want to argue without purpose? All previous posts and screenshot already shown, you sure Kong Hee name only shows in one paragraph (But you just admit his name is inside Collective KL website). Definitely the "huge decline of Christianity" is not caused by CHC dude. It's cause by irresponsible evangelical from the west.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjPtXla7fJ4&t=92s (BBC, Fox almost all media report)

How do you know she is a buddhist? beside I'm talking about scammer right now, not religion why you so furious?

Then why don't Collective KL just remove Kong Hee name? Can explain? I really don't get it

This post has been edited by whitefong: Jan 11 2019, 02:05 AM
red streak
post Jan 11 2019, 02:23 AM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 12:30 AM)
Not so sure, but in the United state they did "seperate the church from the state". I guess the move is to prevent scammer, to scam money in the name of God
*
That has nothing to do with it. They separate the church from the state because that is what a secular government is supposed to do; govern based on man-made laws and not based on the words of some ancient weed smokers. They have plenty of Megachurches in the US that are even more ludicrous than City Harvest Church. Their pastors drive luxury cars and fly in private jets thanks to the donations made by their Megachurches' congregations.

https://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/13/living/c...feat/index.html
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/eddie-...al-dies-n707106
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/how-mu...4b0ab468d9f583d

QUOTE
HOW DOES THIS CHANGE AFFECT OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH CITY HARVEST CHURCH SINGAPORE (CHCSG)?

Our relationship with CHCSG has always been based upon the personal relationship between Pr. Kevin and Pr. Kong, with Pr. Kong being Pr. Kevin’s pastor and mentor. Even as an affiliate of CHCSG, our church has never been under the administrative nor financial jurisdiction of CHCSG. Still, we have received much in the form of guidance and friendship from Pr. Kong and CHCSG all these years and for that we will always be grateful. From this point on, our church will cease to be an affiliate of CHCSG. However, there has been no change in the personal relationship between Pr. Kevin and Pr. Kong.
Doesn't seem like they're under the same organization tbh. Unless he's lying of course whistling.gif
kamfoo
post Jan 11 2019, 02:33 AM

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many dap member there
yeezai
post Jan 11 2019, 02:43 AM

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QUOTE(agent sawyer @ Jan 11 2019, 12:35 AM)
You had better have a good reason to claim that this particular church is a scam

Realise that right now you are saying something like, "Burger King Singapore is a scammer, how can Malaysia Govt allow Burger King Msia to operate"

P.S. wow. That blog is pretty toxic.
*
I help u rephrase..
kurangak
post Jan 11 2019, 02:57 AM

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coz it did nothing wrong, yet? at least in malaysia la
aziratul
post Jan 11 2019, 06:03 AM

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lol

popcorn.gif
fabianz03
post Jan 11 2019, 06:04 AM

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con church

city 'harvest' church

lmfao

kucingrimau
post Jan 11 2019, 06:11 AM

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The City Harvest case happened in Singapore under their law. And this church in Malaysia haven’t broke any law locally. Even same person in-charge/started it, doesn’t mean automatic guilty, I guess.
StarScream01
post Jan 11 2019, 06:45 AM

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well, I don't know why you call them a con church. Do you believe that the earth is only 6000 years old and dinosaurs never existed?
incubus_skj
post Jan 11 2019, 07:11 AM

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QUOTE(agent sawyer @ Jan 11 2019, 01:44 AM)
Which website?
wrong
his name is only mentioned in one paragraph, it's not "everywhere" nor is it "emphasized"
wrong
Collective KL's website doesn't "appreciate" him "like an idol" at all. Just a mention of the influence he did in founding the church.
wrong
The CHC Singapore scandal isn't so influential as to cause a "huge decline of Christianity" in Europe, UK and US
wrong

Helen Ang is apparently a buddhist

Of course she sounds worrying, her blog is all about attacking these (usual) targets for her political masters. Knowing the churches' position in Malaysia's political and social landscape, I'm not surprised at all.
wrong

There is no scammer to protect here, because you are just making up stories with no proof
Why do you sound like a batu api with no proof?
*
Protek protek
itik_emas
post Jan 11 2019, 07:17 AM

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how many pages this thread later?or no potential?
aziratul
post Jan 11 2019, 07:25 AM

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QUOTE(itik_emas @ Jan 11 2019, 07:17 AM)
how many pages this thread later?or no potential?
*
cant go far becoz bukan agama bumi..

o wai
takadanicklagi
post Jan 11 2019, 07:31 AM

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Way i look at it. MD of company A broke the rule. MD went to jail. We should ban company A

Wat cock u talk
aus1984
post Jan 11 2019, 07:33 AM

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QUOTE(play05 @ Jan 11 2019, 03:06 AM)
Why u sound like one of their member or mayb partner  whistling.gif
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This
yed
post Jan 11 2019, 07:36 AM

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Serius penunggang agama imo. Don’t know what in his mind when he founded the megachurch in the first place. For christianity or for money.
ifourtos
post Jan 11 2019, 07:39 AM

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Hadi bigger con lah

Even can be elected
TSwhitefong
post Jan 11 2019, 07:39 AM

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QUOTE(takadanicklagi @ Jan 11 2019, 07:31 AM)
Way i look at it. MD of company A broke the rule. MD went to jail. We should ban company A

Wat cock u talk
*
Many members here, the fact is MD and A company owned by the same person. It is not a cock, it is a scam
It is very simple for a company A not to involve, just remove the "Kong Hee" scammer name. End of story
But we don't understand why Company A refuse to remove the name
TSwhitefong
post Jan 11 2019, 07:41 AM

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QUOTE(ifourtos @ Jan 11 2019, 07:39 AM)
Hadi bigger con lah

Even can be elected
*
Many Con today, worst than MLM or money game
They are more "Legal"
But I guess Kong Hee is much biggest Con, Singaporean actually compare Kong Hee with Najib
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DxlLf5DY_8&t=167s

This post has been edited by whitefong: Jan 11 2019, 07:47 AM
SerioseCat
post Jan 11 2019, 07:46 AM

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all i see in this thread is penunggang agama and their borg followers who try their best to sound rational, but are not

but since no keyword, then 3 pages onli loh..... rolleyes.gif
takadanicklagi
post Jan 11 2019, 07:47 AM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 07:39 AM)
Many members here, the fact is MD and A company owned by the same person. It is not a cock, it is a scam
It is very simple for a company A not to involve, just remove the "Kong Hee" scammer name. End of story
But we don't understand why Company A refuse to remove the name
*
Not sure why should remove the name.

Lol u mean Kong hee owns the church? If like that why is he in jail since he owns the church all money belongs to him.

Anyway. By your account Volkswagen should change name too since they scam so many ppl with the carbon emission thingy and the MD is being persecuted.

For the record I am not into city harvest thingsly. Just feel we should be balance. The head did something wrong and he is paying for it does not means the whole church is wrong . My 2 cents

Actually put his name not bad ma...so lol will stay away...

This post has been edited by takadanicklagi: Jan 11 2019, 07:54 AM
ifourtos
post Jan 11 2019, 07:51 AM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 07:41 AM)
Many Con today, worst than MLM or money game
They are more "Legal"
But I guess Kong Hee is much biggest Con, Singaporean actually compare Kong Hee with Najib
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DxlLf5DY_8&t=167s
*
No offence
Singapolion little little thing they feel like mountains

King hee misused the fund
50m at most

Najib???

Same???

Entire mh370
Bank founder
INSPEKTOR Kevin

Kong hee is wat?


Singkie always singkie
Small world
Small heart
Small brain
TSwhitefong
post Jan 11 2019, 08:01 AM

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QUOTE(takadanicklagi @ Jan 11 2019, 07:47 AM)
Not sure why should remove the name.

Lol u mean Kong hee owns the church? If like that why is he in jail since he owns the church all money belongs to him.

Anyway. By your account Volkswagen should change name too since they scam so many ppl with the carbon emission thingy and the MD is being persecuted.

For the record I am not into city harvest thingsly. Just feel we should be balance. The head did something wrong and he is paying for it does not means the whole church is wrong .  My 2 cents
*
If Kong Hee have no connection with Collective KL church, just remove the name as simple as that. In jail can't own any money from the church? Don't get what you mean lolx
Of course you must not admire or even thanks to the scammer, this is misleading. Just ike you should not admire Hitler who kill 6 million of jews, That simple dude, stop twisting


Collective KL church content:
Pr. Kong Hee as he was my Bible School principal and someone that I’ve always looked up to. I shared with him my vision and I was so thankful to God that Pr. Kong agreed to disciple me.

Under Pr. Kong’s leadership, our vision grew and our capacity enlarged. We began to dream bigger dreams for our city. From sleepless nights to wakeless mornings, we worked and worked. And revival came knocking. From having services in classrooms to having a place we can call our own. From a handful of students meeting in a flat to a thriving multi-generational congregation today, it has truly been an amazing ride. Without Pr. Kong and his wife Sun, we wouldn’t be where we are today. City Harvest is not just a name that we have carried but an identity we have come to embrace.

This post has been edited by whitefong: Jan 11 2019, 08:05 AM
takadanicklagi
post Jan 11 2019, 08:07 AM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 08:01 AM)
In jail can't own any money from church? don't get what you mean lolx
Of course you must not admire or thanks to the scammer, this is misleading. Just ike you should not admire Hitler who kill 6 million of jews, That simple dude, stop twisting
Collective KL church content:
Pr. Kong Hee as he was my Bible School principal and someone that I’ve always looked up to. I shared with him my vision and I was so thankful to God that Pr. Kong agreed to disciple me.

Under Pr. Kong’s leadership, our vision grew and our capacity enlarged. We began to dream bigger dreams for our city. From sleepless nights to wakeless mornings, we worked and worked. And revival came knocking. From having services in classrooms to having a place we can call our own. From a handful of students meeting in a flat to a thriving multi-generational congregation today, it has truly been an amazing ride. Without Pr. Kong and his wife Sun, we wouldn’t be where we are today. City Harvest is not just a name that we have carried but an identity we have come to embrace.
*
Yala should ban UMNO too since so many singing praise of najib. His pic still in umno building

Since when la I twist.

So u saying Hong kee owns the church? He still drawing salary from that church?
MR_alien
post Jan 11 2019, 08:47 AM

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how do u determine this church is a con?...because i know quite a few ppl that attend this church

did the church ask their followers to contribute money?

i know a church that is a clear con because the church ask their followers to contribute 2/3 of their salary to the church
agent sawyer
post Jan 11 2019, 08:49 AM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 01:54 AM)
Are you illiterate?
You're the one totally confused about this situation to the point of accusing this church of a crime, and you're calling me illiterate?

QUOTE
Or just want to argue without purpose?
Better than accusing people of crime without purpose or proof

QUOTE
All previous posts and screenshot already shown, you sure Kong Hee name only shows in one paragraph (But you just admit his name is inside Collective KL website).
WOW. And this is your "proof" that Collective KL is a scammer

Go on, submit this as "proof" in a report to PDRM. I dare you. I double dare you. Go on, Mr. Socially Responsible.

QUOTE
Definitely the "huge decline of Christianity" is not caused by CHC dude. It's cause by irresponsible evangelical from the west.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjPtXla7fJ4&t=92s  (BBC, Fox almost all media report)

Exactly. Which is why your earlier statement is wrong.

QUOTE
How do you know she is a buddhist?
Some people commenting on her posts identify her as Buddhist, and if you read her posts you'll see she does show signs of that

QUOTE
beside I'm talking about scammer right now, not religion why you so furious?

NO. You're not talking about "scammer" right now, you're talking about an innocent church as if they are proven scammers

I could describe my current activity as talking to a "slanderous liar" with more proof than you have

QUOTE
Then why don't Collective KL just remove Kong Hee name? Can explain? I really don't get it
*
Because whatever else he did in his church, he did also inspire the pastors of Collective KL to found their church

You're so smart to read their website but you can't understand this?

And dare to call people "illiterate"... haiz doh.gif

QUOTE(play05 @ Jan 11 2019, 03:06 AM)
Why u sound like one of their member or mayb partner  whistling.gif
*
I'm not a member

but I know people who go there

you can say I'm concerned with their reputation, so yes, if I see some moron slandering them even if it's just /ktard stupidity, I'll jump in and "protek"
desmond2020
post Jan 11 2019, 08:51 AM

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Prosperity gospel


Enough said
mousqy
post Jan 11 2019, 08:58 AM

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penunggang agama datang dari pelbagai lapisan masyarakat
latipbogiba
post Jan 11 2019, 09:10 AM

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wahh really daring
Starbucki
post Jan 11 2019, 09:11 AM

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It goes to show that the congregation in CHC were blessed by God by their worship in that church, hence the fervour. Kong Hee was just the facilitator. God heals, not Kong Hee heals. If he had abused his pastoral and administrative position then let God deal with him. Going around labelling churches as con without proof is unreasonable.
tentenko
post Jan 11 2019, 09:23 AM

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QUOTE(Fat & Fluffy @ Jan 11 2019, 12:06 AM)



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lol the amount of dislike. other christian be like...wowowow..haram


Twins10
post Jan 11 2019, 09:26 AM

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Ppl who join all these cult religions have no brains of their own?

All herd mentality .. and kind of obsessed...or possessed.
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post Jan 11 2019, 09:29 AM

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user posted image
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post Jan 11 2019, 09:34 AM

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These church are rich yo, look at their building and event. I wondering where is the money spend to.

But i'm not christian lah, none of my business also.
desmond2020
post Jan 11 2019, 09:54 AM

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QUOTE(ThirdSon @ Jan 11 2019, 09:29 AM)
user posted image
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Eh eh eh
spacelion
post Jan 11 2019, 10:08 AM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 12:30 AM)
Not so sure, but in the United state they did "seperate the church from the state". I guess the move is to prevent scammer, to scam money in the name of God
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we have PAS , do you really think u could separate religion from gahmen in Malaysia?
spacelion
post Jan 11 2019, 10:11 AM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 10:03 AM)
No one said all church is Con, we are talking about Kong Hee Scandal and his wife, why are you all protecting the scammer? part of them?
In fact I ask them to switch others church
*
btw what church u going to ? im sure i can dig up some scandal in there. Most churches have their "hidden sins", but I thought the religion preach about grace and forgiveness and yet you tell me you still hold man accountable for God's judgment ?
kevin23
post Jan 11 2019, 10:14 AM

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QUOTE(Fat & Fluffy @ Jan 11 2019, 01:11 AM)
wats collective kl?
*
A church in Subang Jaya. Next to UCSI school.

Lets just put it this way. A church is supposed to be a place of worship nothing more. They are not supposed to run a church like a freaking business.

If u step inside collective kl, theres a futsal court which is open to public, theres a cafe, and they even rent out their lobby space for events.

Yes donations to church are acceptable. But the fact is they run this church like a business establishment. Thats why ppl are not so comfortable with it.
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post Jan 11 2019, 10:16 AM

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QUOTE(spacelion @ Jan 11 2019, 10:11 AM)
btw what church u going to ? im sure i can dig up some scandal in there. Most churches have their "hidden sins", but I thought the religion preach about grace and forgiveness and yet you tell me you still hold man accountable for God's judgment ?
*
Careful..they don’t like criticism. Got lipoted liao..sigh
TSwhitefong
post Jan 11 2019, 10:16 AM

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QUOTE(takadanicklagi @ Jan 11 2019, 08:07 AM)
Yala should ban UMNO too since so many singing praise of najib. His pic still in umno building

Since when la I twist.

So u saying Hong kee owns the church? He still drawing salary from that church?
*
That why they lose the election, That simple? how he received the money, who know? may be he just using his relative account or such
I start to curious, you probably don't understand my question

I said Collective KL churches must not put Kong Hee name and his wife Sun on the website, should not show gratitude to both scammer. This is like praising the bad guy like Hitler, who kills 6 million

I hope the follower here stop twist the story around. If you are sincere and faithful christian, you should inform the church remove the scammer name, not here to twist my words; I guess this is the main reason why the huge decline of Christianity happened in the US, UK or Europe, because the follower is not rational we talk A, they answer B

faith is faith, bad people is bad people. The follower must not blindly protect the scammer
LamboSama
post Jan 11 2019, 10:17 AM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 12:30 AM)
Not so sure, but in the United state they did "seperate the church from the state". I guess the move is to prevent scammer, to scam money in the name of God
*
willing donor, willing receiver.
what's scamming about that? laugh.gif
spacelion
post Jan 11 2019, 10:18 AM

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QUOTE(kevin23 @ Jan 11 2019, 10:14 AM)
A church in Subang Jaya. Next to UCSI school.

Lets just put it this way. A church is supposed to be a place of worship nothing more. They are not supposed to run a church like a freaking business.

If u step inside collective kl, theres a futsal court which is open to public, theres a cafe, and they even rent out their lobby space for events.

Yes donations to church are acceptable. But the fact is they run this church like a business establishment. Thats why ppl are not so comfortable with it.
*
should we judge them or let God judge them ?
Starbucki
post Jan 11 2019, 10:18 AM

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QUOTE(kevin23 @ Jan 11 2019, 10:14 AM)
A church in Subang Jaya. Next to UCSI school.

Lets just put it this way. A church is supposed to be a place of worship nothing more. They are not supposed to run a church like a freaking business.

If u step inside collective kl, theres a futsal court which is open to public, theres a cafe, and they even rent out their lobby space for events.

Yes donations to church are acceptable. But the fact is they run this church like a business establishment. Thats why ppl are not so comfortable with it.
*
I dont think they care about the few ringgit they earn from renting out the space. How much can the cafe earn anyway if traffic is only on weekends. Its meant to be a community centre.
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post Jan 11 2019, 10:19 AM

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spacelion
post Jan 11 2019, 10:20 AM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 10:16 AM)
That why they lose the election, That simple? how he received the money, who know? may be he just using his relative account or such
I start to curious, you probably don't understand my question

I said Collective KL churches must not put Kong Hee name and his wife Sun on the website, should not show gratitude to both scammer. This is like praising the bad guy like Hitler, who kills 6 million

I hope the follower here stop twist the story around. If you are sincere and faithful christian, you should inform the church remove the scammer name, not here to twist my words; I guess this is the main reason why the huge decline of Christianity happened in the US, UK or Europe, because the follower is not rational we talk A, they answer B

faith is faith, bad people is bad people. The follower must not blindly protect the scammer
*
do you remember planetshakers had mike gugliemucci scandal , or right now Hillsongs has the Ps Houston scandal, even then will you stop listening to their music bcos of 1 bad apple ?
hellokitten
post Jan 11 2019, 10:21 AM

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Amazing only in Malaysia they use music to "recruit" new followers.. Cos they realize, the younger generation can only be "roped in" by music. How sad Christianity has become. It's more like running a business these days.

Then once they rope you in, they pressure you into paying 10% of your salary. If you don't contribute, you won't receive blessings in the future in your life or you don't love Jesus enough.

Then after you keep paying, now it's your duty to recruit others to "save them" when judgement day comes.

Rinse and repeat.

Just hope Collective isn't one of these new breed of churches with the above attributes.

shaniandras2787
post Jan 11 2019, 10:22 AM

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churches have been around for ages and nothing has changed about them. they are utilized by people to manipulate others for own personal gains.

i have yet to see a really impartial church that doesn't focus around "monies".
kevin23
post Jan 11 2019, 10:24 AM

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QUOTE(Starbucki @ Jan 11 2019, 10:18 AM)
I dont think they care about the few ringgit they earn from renting out the space. How much can the cafe earn anyway if traffic is only on weekends. Its meant to be a community centre.
*
U are mad. Do u know how much they renting out their space?

I have seen Mini doing a car launch there b4.

They rent out 10-20k for a few hours event.

Their cafe is a proper cafe with full equipment setup for example proper espresso machine and full array of cakes etc. Its like a proper cafe u see outside. They make alot since the stuff is not cheap as well. And there is always ppl in the cafe.

Its called grey sky morning. Go google. Btw, they even have a barber as well. But not sure if still running.
agent sawyer
post Jan 11 2019, 10:25 AM

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QUOTE(kevin23 @ Jan 11 2019, 10:14 AM)
A church in Subang Jaya. Next to UCSI school.

Lets just put it this way. A church is supposed to be a place of worship nothing more. They are not supposed to run a church like a freaking business.

If u step inside collective kl, theres a futsal court which is open to public, theres a cafe, and they even rent out their lobby space for events.

Yes donations to church are acceptable. But the fact is they run this church like a business establishment. Thats why ppl are not so comfortable with it.
*
"They are not supposed to run a church like a business"
and
"They should not engage in business activities"
and
"They should not engage in ANY business activities AT ALL"

are 3 very different things. I'm going to talk about point 1 in relation to the cafe.

The facilities in the church are mainly for their own use. You know I know that hardly anyone will come into the church just to drink coffee. Obviously there has to be a charge for the usage of the facilities/consumption of the goods. Anybody who runs F&B will know that the cafe is unlikely to be profitable.

It's a very far step from having a designated, essentially subsidised cafe, to "running a church like a business". That's something else entirely.

The "event space" will be similar, and again for similar reasons. Usually events are going to be held by fellow Christian organisations.

What are the alternatives? Well e.g. my church runs a canteen on 100% donation basis, where someone just tops up the Nescafe when it runs out. I don't entirely agree with that, I believe there should be a nominal charge for the consumer. Well they are small enough that they don't feel the pinch. But if they had a congregation in the 1000s, coffee money becomes a significant amount.
Starbucki
post Jan 11 2019, 10:25 AM

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QUOTE(hellokitten @ Jan 11 2019, 10:21 AM)
Amazing only in Malaysia they use music to "recruit" new followers.. Cos they realize, the younger generation can only be "roped in" by music. How sad Christianity has become.  It's more like running a business these days.

Then once they rope you in, they pressure you into paying 10% of your salary. If you don't contribute, you won't receive blessings in the future in your life or you don't love Jesus enough.

Then after you keep paying, now it's your duty to recruit others to "save them" when judgement day comes.

Rinse and repeat.

Just hope Collective isn't one of these new breed of churches with the above attributes.
*
You twisted the whole thing to suit your own views.
agent sawyer
post Jan 11 2019, 10:27 AM

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QUOTE(spacelion @ Jan 11 2019, 10:20 AM)
do you remember planetshakers had mike gugliemucci scandal , or right now Hillsongs has the Ps Houston scandal, even then will you stop listening to their music bcos of 1 bad apple ?
*
TS attitude is must black out their name entirely, like the emperors of ancient kingdoms did to traitors rolleyes.gif

anyway congrats TS, you have successfully attracted the church-hating denizens of /k, since this is going to be a bashing thread shortly I'll be seeing myself out

QUOTE(Starbucki @ Jan 11 2019, 10:25 AM)
You twisted the whole thing to suit your own views.
*
indeed, the same can be said for any religion, any philosophy, any cause

This post has been edited by agent sawyer: Jan 11 2019, 10:28 AM
Starbucki
post Jan 11 2019, 10:29 AM

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QUOTE(kevin23 @ Jan 11 2019, 10:24 AM)
U are mad. Do u know how much they renting out their space?

I have seen Mini doing a car launch there b4.

They rent out 10-20k for a few hours event.

Their cafe is a proper cafe with full equipment setup for example proper espresso machine and full array of cakes etc. Its like a proper cafe u see outside. They make alot since the stuff is not cheap as well. And there is always ppl in the cafe.

Its called grey sky morning. Go google. Btw, they even have a barber as well. But not sure if still running.
*
Ok, assume you are right. What is wrong with enterprise?
TSwhitefong
post Jan 11 2019, 10:31 AM

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QUOTE(LamboSama @ Jan 11 2019, 10:17 AM)
willing donor, willing receiver.
what's scamming about that?  laugh.gif
*
Church is like temple or mosque, definetely you can donate accordingly
However, the pastor should not spend church money' for personal luxury lifestyle, this is why the Singapore government sends them to jail
As a Malaysian we should fully aware of the church Kong Hee involved, and should not donate single cent to any church Kong Hee and another 6 leader involved.

desmond2020
post Jan 11 2019, 10:31 AM

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QUOTE(Starbucki @ Jan 11 2019, 10:29 AM)
Ok, assume you are right. What is wrong with enterprise?
*
And Jesus entered the temple and drove out all who sold and bought in the temple, and he overturned the tables of the money-changers and the seats of those who sold pigeons. He said to them, "It is written, 'My house shall be called a house of prayer,' but you make it a den of robbers." And the blind and the lame came to him in the temple, and he healed them. But when the chief priests and the scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying out in the temple, "Hosanna to the Son of David!" they were indignant, and they said to him, "Do you hear what these are saying?" And Jesus said to them, "Yes; have you never read, "'Out of the mouth of infants and nursing babies you have prepared praise'?" And leaving them, he went out of the city to Bethany and lodged there.
Matthew 21:12‭-‬17 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.21.12-17.ESV
prophetjul
post Jan 11 2019, 10:32 AM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 10:31 AM)
Church is like temple or mosque, definetely you can donate accordingly
However, the pastor should not spend church money' for personal luxury lifestyle, this is why the Singapore government sends them to jail
As a Malaysian we should fully aware of the church Kong Hee involved, and should not donate single cent to any church Kong Hee and another 6 leader involved.
*
The scamming is in the teachings. Prosperity gospel. Fakery
takadanicklagi
post Jan 11 2019, 10:33 AM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 10:16 AM)
That why they lose the election, That simple? how he received the money, who know? may be he just using his relative account or such
I start to curious, you probably don't understand my question

I said Collective KL churches must not put Kong Hee name and his wife Sun on the website, should not show gratitude to both scammer. This is like praising the bad guy like Hitler, who kills 6 million

I hope the follower here stop twist the story around. If you are sincere and faithful christian, you should inform the church remove the scammer name, not here to twist my words; I guess this is the main reason why the huge decline of Christianity happened in the US, UK or Europe, because the follower is not rational we talk A, they answer B

faith is faith, bad people is bad people. The follower must not blindly protect the scammer
*
I see you are very passionate in this issue which is fine for me. It is not up to me to remove them I am indifferent. More the better if they put his face there so other ppl know and be weary.

Also pls tell me how i twist your word and i will amend it

Btw not protecting him. In fact I think God forbid he should be jailed for his wrong doing. His wife too.

In anycase your allegation on him continue receiving money is...hmmm anyway I dont care he will be in jail anyway....
Fat & Fluffy
post Jan 11 2019, 10:34 AM

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QUOTE(Twins10 @ Jan 11 2019, 11:26 AM)
Ppl who join all these cult religions have no brains of their own?

All herd mentality ..  and kind of obsessed...or possessed.
*
at least they are not into politics... i think they tried... but lee bashed them with his iron fist

QUOTE(kevin23 @ Jan 11 2019, 12:14 PM)
A church in Subang Jaya. Next to UCSI school.

Lets just put it this way. A church is supposed to be a place of worship nothing more. They are not supposed to run a church like a freaking business.

If u step inside collective kl, theres a futsal court which is open to public, theres a cafe, and they even rent out their lobby space for events.

Yes donations to church are acceptable. But the fact is they run this church like a business establishment. Thats why ppl are not so comfortable with it.
*
i see... do they pray in tongue?
lostxkitten
post Jan 11 2019, 10:35 AM

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Wow so they are cult group.
kevin23
post Jan 11 2019, 10:37 AM

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QUOTE(Fat & Fluffy @ Jan 11 2019, 10:34 AM)
at least they are not into politics... i think they tried... but lee bashed them with his iron fist
i see... do they pray in tongue?
*
They do
treblecase
post Jan 11 2019, 10:40 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Jan 11 2019, 10:31 AM)
Idiot alert
*
Dunno who’ll be one in the end. You can’t be too sure. I may have the last laugh.
newbie
post Jan 11 2019, 10:41 AM

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_Harvest_Church

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/cour...harvest-trial-0

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/cour...jail-terms-kong

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/city...erm-wife-sun-ho

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/rise...uperstar-pastor

https://mustsharenews.com/things-kong-hee-owns/

https://mothership.sg/2015/11/kong-hee-sun-...ves-in-3-years/

http://finance.theindependent.sg/luxury-se...over-2-million/

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/cour...oatman-remanded


This post has been edited by newbie: Jan 11 2019, 10:47 AM
prophetjul
post Jan 11 2019, 10:42 AM

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QUOTE(treblecase @ Jan 11 2019, 10:40 AM)
Dunno who’ll be one in the end. You can’t be too sure. I may have the last laugh.
*
With your last statement, I am looking at one NOW.
TSwhitefong
post Jan 11 2019, 10:42 AM

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QUOTE(takadanicklagi @ Jan 11 2019, 10:33 AM)
I see you are very passionate in this issue which is fine for me. It is not up to me to remove them I am indifferent. More the better if they put his face there so other ppl know and be weary.

Also pls tell me how i twist your word and i will amend it 

Btw not protecting him. In fact I think God forbid he should be jailed for his wrong doing. His wife too.

In anycase your allegation on him  continue receiving money is...hmmm anyway I dont care he will be in jail anyway....
*
That's why I said you can go any other church, there is plenty of churches out there. I don't understand why the follower so furious. If you are faithful, there are so many churches in Malaysia. Why you must donate the money to the obvious Con church with Kong Hee name?
Progressive church usually allows people to ask questions, only the conservative church will keep protect the wrong things
Conservative christian example : Donald Trump
So you should advise the church to remove Kong Hee name, not here argue with me
skyblu3
post Jan 11 2019, 10:44 AM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 10 2019, 11:50 PM)
I just find out the Collective KL church is formerly known as a City harvest church, the "CON" church

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-24...star-dream.html

Kong Hee (founder of City Harvest Church and Collective KL church) Pastor's wife song "China wine" LOLX
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x7WcpIsM3c&t=3s

Source
https://helenang.wordpress.com/2012/07/07/l...s-dream-center/

How can Malaysia allow them operate here in Malaysia?
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treblecase
post Jan 11 2019, 10:44 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Jan 11 2019, 10:42 AM)
With your last statement, I am looking at one NOW.
*
Yada yada yada...I’m prepared to be condemned to hell or whatever it is. Are you?
Starbucki
post Jan 11 2019, 10:48 AM

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Funny that TS keep saying the church should remove kong hee's name.

Transparent salah

Conceal tak salah

Phailed logic
less1234
post Jan 11 2019, 10:50 AM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 10:16 AM)
That why they lose the election, That simple? how he received the money, who know? may be he just using his relative account or such
I start to curious, you probably don't understand my question

I said Collective KL churches must not put Kong Hee name and his wife Sun on the website, should not show gratitude to both scammer. This is like praising the bad guy like Hitler, who kills 6 million

I hope the follower here stop twist the story around. If you are sincere and faithful christian, you should inform the church remove the scammer name, not here to twist my words; I guess this is the main reason why the huge decline of Christianity happened in the US, UK or Europe, because the follower is not rational we talk A, they answer B

faith is faith, bad people is bad people. The follower must not blindly protect the scammer
*
It's like your teacher in secondary taught you good good, you get banyak A in all exams, now doing well in life thanks to his teachings. Then one day you found out your teacher robbed a bank and got caught, so then you dissociate yourself from your teacher. Even though you know without him, you won't be successful today.

Same goes for the relationship between the founder and Kong Hee.

They renounce their ties with Kong Hee's church by changing name to dissociate themselves from the scandal.

Fact wise, that without Kong Hee's guidance, there won't be Collective KL or CHCKL or whatever their name will be. So from here it's easy to play "anak derhaka", by denouncing Kong Hee or doing what you suggested; but they didn't, gratitude is gratitude, and it is a personal gratitude. So when people ask :"So did Kong Hee guided this church?" Are they gonna answer, oh no no , we don't know and we hate Kong Hee which a blatant lie and go against the principle of the Bible?

This post has been edited by less1234: Jan 11 2019, 10:54 AM
desmond2020
post Jan 11 2019, 10:53 AM

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QUOTE(less1234 @ Jan 11 2019, 10:50 AM)
It's like your teacher in secondary taught you good good, you get banyak A in all exams, now doing well in life thanks to his teachings. Then one day you found out your teacher robbed a bank and got caught, so then you dissociate yourself from your teacher. Even though you know without him, you won't be successful today.

Same goes for the relationship between the founder and Kong Hee.

They renounce their ties with Kong Hee's church by changing name to dissociate themselves from the scandal.

Fact wise, that without Kong Hee's guidance, there won't be Collective KL or CHCKL or whatever their name will be. So from here it's easy to play "anak derhaka", by denouncing Kong Hee or doing what you suggested; but they didn't, gratitude is gratitude, and it is a personal gratitude.
*
Trademark will be like a section of the website dedicated to donation where credit card payment is accepted
agent sawyer
post Jan 11 2019, 10:56 AM

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QUOTE(Starbucki @ Jan 11 2019, 10:48 AM)
Funny that TS keep saying the church should remove kong hee's name.

Transparent salah

Conceal tak salah

Phailed logic
*
TS is memang anti religion in the first place

all this is just wayang to push his actual agenda
takadanicklagi
post Jan 11 2019, 11:01 AM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 10:42 AM)
That's why I said you can go any other church, there is plenty of churches out there. I don't understand why the follower so furious. If you are faithful, there are so many churches in Malaysia. Why you must donate the money to the obvious Con church with Kong Hee name?
Progressive church usually allows people to ask questions, only the conservative church will keep protect the wrong things
Conservative christian example : Donald Trump
So you should advise the church to remove Kong Hee name, not here argue with me
*
Funny la u....why I should ask them to remove it. I drive BMW i go ask Volkswagen why your CEO still there ..

Anyway...are you attending that church ahh?
TSwhitefong
post Jan 11 2019, 11:06 AM

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QUOTE(less1234 @ Jan 11 2019, 10:50 AM)
It's like your teacher in secondary taught you good good, you get banyak A in all exams, now doing well in life thanks to his teachings. Then one day you found out your teacher robbed a bank and got caught, so then you dissociate yourself from your teacher. Even though you know without him, you won't be successful today.

Same goes for the relationship between the founder and Kong Hee.

They renounce their ties with Kong Hee's church by changing name to dissociate themselves from the scandal.

Fact wise, that without Kong Hee's guidance, there won't be Collective KL or CHCKL or whatever their name will be. So from here it's easy to play "anak derhaka", by denouncing Kong Hee or doing what you suggested; but they didn't, gratitude is gratitude, and it is a personal gratitude.
*
it is still a gratitutte Lolx

What kind of twisting logic is this? Is this how you brainwashed the adherent? If he is a good teacher, good personality, we definitely respect him. Robbing is wrong, of course we condemn. Is any school in Malaysia or Singapore will praise the bad teacher publicly? I doubt so. If you want to show personal gratitude, you should do it privately, not put on the public website, this is misleading
Just a reverse question, if the "Good teacher" kill your relative during the rob, can you still show gratitude to him and walk away, said " Nvm he used to be good teacher, is okay for him to kill? Okay ?

This post has been edited by whitefong: Jan 11 2019, 11:19 AM
Fat & Fluffy
post Jan 11 2019, 11:12 AM

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QUOTE(kevin23 @ Jan 11 2019, 12:37 PM)
They do
*
i see..
fuzzy
post Jan 11 2019, 11:15 AM

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less1234
post Jan 11 2019, 11:22 AM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 11:06 AM)
it is still a gratitutte Lolx

What kind of twisting logic is this? Is this how you brainwashed the adherent? If he is a good teacher, good personality, we definitely respect him. Robbing is wrong, of course we condemn. Is any school in Malaysia or Singapore will praise the bad teacher on public? I doubt so. If you want to show personal gratitude, you should do it privately, not put on the public website and mislead the follower.
Just a reverse question, if the "Good teacher" kill your relative during the rob, can you still forgive him?
*
Yeap, I did visited him in prison, life imprisonment sadly, although he didn't kill my relative, he harmed and traumatized my wife, he fell on hard times, I won't judge him on doing so as I did not put myself in his shoes.
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post Jan 11 2019, 11:28 AM

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QUOTE(less1234 @ Jan 11 2019, 11:22 AM)
Yeap, I did visited him in prison, life imprisonment sadly, although he didn't kill my relative, he harmed and traumatized my wife, he fell on hard times, I won't judge him on doing so as I did not put myself in his shoes.
*
Here is two comparisons

You watch Les~miserable? A guy steals a bread for a hungry kid, yes for this case I don't judge him. But it is still a wrong doing.
For Pastor Kong Hee, he deserves the punishment, we should condemn him, because he steal the church money, spends for his personal luxury lifestyle, those are horrible things. And Collective Kl should fully aware of this and must remove such scammer name
fun_feng
post Jan 11 2019, 11:28 AM

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RIP TS insulted a church..

Kristian gonna viral, mob and rally u to death
titanmelvin
post Jan 11 2019, 11:31 AM

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Wow spotted few Collective KL members here
TSwhitefong
post Jan 11 2019, 11:32 AM

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QUOTE(fun_feng @ Jan 11 2019, 11:28 AM)
RIP TS insulted a church..

Kristian gonna viral, mob and rally u to death
*
I don't think christian will rally on this, only affiliate of City harvest church will do. Progressive Christian will never accept Pastor Kong Hee.

This post has been edited by whitefong: Jan 11 2019, 11:37 AM
less1234
post Jan 11 2019, 11:37 AM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 11:28 AM)
Here is two comparisons

You watch Les~miserable? A guy steals a bread for a hungry kid, yes for this case I don't judge him. But it is still a wrong doing.
For Pastor Kong Hee, he deserves the punishment, we should condemn him, because he steal the church money, spends for his personal luxury lifestyle, those are horrible things. And Collective Kl should fully aware of this and must remove such scammer name
*
Then I nominate you to go to the church and let them know they are wrong to settle this once and for all, I believe you are a man/woman of upright justice and action.

This post has been edited by less1234: Jan 11 2019, 11:38 AM
hellokitten
post Jan 11 2019, 12:06 PM

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QUOTE(Starbucki @ Jan 11 2019, 10:25 AM)
You twisted the whole thing to suit your own views.
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I'm free to form my own opinion based on feedback from Christians from many churches.

You are free to form your own as well.
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post Jan 11 2019, 12:10 PM

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QUOTE(hellokitten @ Jan 11 2019, 12:06 PM)
I'm free to form my own opinion based on feedback from Christians from many churches.

You are free to form your own as well.
*
Then you may need to listen to God more than your friends.

Humans are fallible. Churches are fallible. God's Word is infallible.

This post has been edited by Starbucki: Jan 11 2019, 12:11 PM
LamboSama
post Jan 11 2019, 12:10 PM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 10:31 AM)
Church is like temple or mosque, definetely you can donate accordingly
However, the pastor should not spend church money' for personal luxury lifestyle, this is why the Singapore government sends them to jail
As a Malaysian we should fully aware of the church Kong Hee involved, and should not donate single cent to any church Kong Hee and another 6 leader involved.
*
that's misappropriation of funds.
not scam. laugh.gif

even then donated funds spending are based on the association. so.... hmm.gif

agent sawyer
post Jan 11 2019, 12:13 PM

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QUOTE(fuzzy @ Jan 11 2019, 11:15 AM)
she's a feature writer for RPK too

a lot of what she writes is quite sickening really
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post Jan 11 2019, 12:18 PM

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CHC. That church huh. Heheheh
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post Jan 11 2019, 12:19 PM

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QUOTE(agent sawyer @ Jan 11 2019, 12:13 PM)
she's a feature writer for RPK too

a lot of what she writes is quite sickening really
*
I stopped reading when she said that the congregation's tongues darted in and out like monitor lizards, and with no pics of that but rather pics of a 2007 concert.
xAmdx
post Jan 11 2019, 12:34 PM

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Just read that Serina Wee its release. Quite a big news in SG.
lee_lnh
post Jan 11 2019, 01:10 PM

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church is a lucrative business model...
nuvi
post Jan 11 2019, 01:16 PM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 12:48 AM)
It is not an accuse, it is all over in the media dude. What do you mean a great hate? She is alarmed the people
Spreading such a news is part of social responsibility, how can you twist the story around?
Are you accusing the Singapore government did a wrong thing as well?
*

All over the media is at SG church. They found wrongdoing there.

Malaysia haven't found any wrongdoing so you can't simply equate it here. You can only question is it here is same as there.

Being sued will be a very expensive lesson to learn about responsibility.
spacelion
post Jan 11 2019, 01:18 PM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 10:31 AM)
Church is like temple or mosque, definetely you can donate accordingly
However, the pastor should not spend church money' for personal luxury lifestyle, this is why the Singapore government sends them to jail
As a Malaysian we should fully aware of the church Kong Hee involved, and should not donate single cent to any church Kong Hee and another 6 leader involved.
*
ok

the church i go to , our pastor has his own business, so he's not paid by church

but there are other laymen who are employed by church and they are paid salary

so u mean to tell me that pastor cannot spend church money or what.
desmond2020
post Jan 11 2019, 01:23 PM

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QUOTE(spacelion @ Jan 11 2019, 01:18 PM)
ok

the church i go to , our pastor has his own business, so he's not paid by church

but there are other laymen who are employed by church and they are paid salary

so u mean to tell me that pastor cannot spend church money or what.
*
You know what is misappropriation of fund and criminal breach of trust?


Say a donation fund earmarked for missionary mission in Africa and the dear pastor dip his finger into cookie jar and use it to pay for his daughter bachelor programs at yales


Pastor using church fund for own benefit is both wrong in the eye of law and God, well if he actually believe in hell

This post has been edited by desmond2020: Jan 11 2019, 01:24 PM
taint8
post Jan 11 2019, 01:25 PM

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Conichiwa
TSwhitefong
post Jan 11 2019, 01:26 PM

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QUOTE(nuvi @ Jan 11 2019, 01:16 PM)
All over the media is at SG church. They found wrongdoing there.

Malaysia haven't found any wrongdoing so you can't simply equate it here. You can only question is it here is same as there.

Being sued will be a very expensive lesson to learn about responsibility.
*
This sound like threaten, is this how you all treat the people who ask a question? that why I said for the sake of good, why not just remove the name of "Kong Hee"? less controversial. The church can have less headaches too
We only point out "Kong Hee" scammer name should not use on the website, furthermore, I said a word "could be" only. But the way you threaten us sound real to me. OMG. This is so scary

This post has been edited by whitefong: Jan 11 2019, 01:30 PM
nuvi
post Jan 11 2019, 01:29 PM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 01:26 PM)
This sound like threaten, is this how you all treat the people who ask a question? that why I said for the sake of good, why not just remove the name of "Kong Hee"? less controversial. The church can have less headaches too
We only point out "Kong Hee" scammer name should not use on the website, furthermore, I said a word "could be" only. But the way you threaten us sound real to me. OMG
*

Wow your stupidity is in another level. I don't even believe in god, I just telling you how the world works.

Can Germany take out Hitler name from their records? History will remain the same, trying to conceal it will look more worse.
desmond2020
post Jan 11 2019, 01:31 PM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 01:26 PM)
This sound like threaten, is this how you all treat the people who ask a question? that why I said for the sake of good, why not just remove the name of "Kong Hee"? less controversial. The church can have less headaches too
We only point out "Kong Hee" scammer name should not use on the website, furthermore, I said a word "could be" only. But the way you threaten us sound real to me. OMG
*
Another hallmark of deviant chruch is that they threat fellow chirch member and church body which don't agree with their belief, with lawsuit


For example local church group file furious lawsuit against many church body


Well
Lumiaaa
post Jan 11 2019, 01:34 PM

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Catholic Church > all

All other church not under Pope is false

The rest esp CHC are only run by self centered egoistic people

This post has been edited by Lumiaaa: Jan 11 2019, 01:39 PM
Hades76
post Jan 11 2019, 01:35 PM

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QUOTE(Lumiaaa @ Jan 11 2019, 01:34 PM)
Chatolic church > all

All other church not under Pope is false
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+1000000000000000000000
Lumiaaa
post Jan 11 2019, 01:36 PM

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How can you pray while having pop concert

That is so stupid

Imagine mosque have pop concert pray to Allah
Hades76
post Jan 11 2019, 01:37 PM

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QUOTE(Lumiaaa @ Jan 11 2019, 01:34 PM)
Chatolic church > all

All other church not under Pope is false
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+1000000000000000000000
TSwhitefong
post Jan 11 2019, 01:39 PM

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QUOTE(nuvi @ Jan 11 2019, 01:29 PM)
Wow your stupidity is in another level. I don't even believe in god, I just telling you how the world works.

Can Germany take out Hitler name from their records? History will remain the same, trying to conceal it will look more worse.
*
In that case, sorry because too many members here behave like ISIS, threten and twist my words, sound so scary.
History definitely will record, but the record must not praise the scammer, I did mention above, wrong is wrong
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post Jan 11 2019, 01:41 PM

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nama pun collective, what you expect? whistling.gif
spacelion
post Jan 11 2019, 01:43 PM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Jan 11 2019, 01:23 PM)
You know what is misappropriation of fund and criminal breach of trust?
Say a donation fund earmarked for missionary mission in Africa and the dear pastor dip his finger into cookie jar and use it to pay for his daughter bachelor programs at yales
Pastor using church fund for own benefit is both wrong in the eye of law and God, well if he actually believe in hell
*
thats up for god to judge

obviously there are a lot of questions but let the law and God decide.

if you talk about misappropriation of funds, then tell me what should be the salary of a pastor of a church of his size, does the salary scale according to members or not, if not then what should the salary be - and benefits. I guessing you can't say either. This is the problem here, it's very easy to say misappropriation of funds but everyone has a different opinion of how much a pastor should be paid and according to what terms and benefits. Unless we can come to agreement it's futile to argue.
spacelion
post Jan 11 2019, 01:45 PM

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QUOTE(Lumiaaa @ Jan 11 2019, 01:34 PM)
Catholic Church > all

All other church not under Pope is false

The rest esp CHC are only run by self centered egoistic people
*
As long as the church doesn't depend on a sinner like Mary or Peter to forgive your sins then it's a good church.

John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me"

You cannot have your sins forgiven via other sources, not even Mary mother of Jesus who is a sinner.

This post has been edited by spacelion: Jan 11 2019, 01:46 PM
desmond2020
post Jan 11 2019, 01:46 PM

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QUOTE(spacelion @ Jan 11 2019, 01:43 PM)
thats up for god to judge

obviously there are a lot of questions but let the law and God decide.

if you talk about misappropriation of funds, then tell me what should be the salary of a pastor of a church of his size, does the salary scale according to members or not, if not then what should the salary be - and benefits. I guessing you can't say either. This is the problem here, it's very easy to say misappropriation of funds but everyone has a different opinion of how much a pastor should be paid and according to what terms and benefits. Unless we can come to agreement it's futile to argue.
*
Well then

Only good standard is bible

For example Paul only receive donation for his NECESSITY


That should be the golden standard then if you say must listen more to word of God
spacelion
post Jan 11 2019, 01:47 PM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Jan 11 2019, 01:46 PM)

That should be the golden standard then if you say must listen more to word of God
*
I agree with this principle though, bcos my pastor is not paid by church.

But what then should we say about those Pastors who take a normal salary. If a church deems it neccessary for a Pastor to have 10k salary , is it wrong ? What about 100k. Where does one draw the line.

This post has been edited by spacelion: Jan 11 2019, 01:48 PM
tcapmibus
post Jan 11 2019, 01:48 PM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 11:28 AM)
Here is two comparisons

You watch Les~miserable? A guy steals a bread for a hungry kid, yes for this case I don't judge him. But it is still a wrong doing.
For Pastor Kong Hee, he deserves the punishment, we should condemn him, because he steal the church money, spends for his personal luxury lifestyle, those are horrible things. And Collective Kl should fully aware of this and must remove such scammer name
*
comparison movie with real life... gud jub TS
nuvi
post Jan 11 2019, 01:48 PM

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QUOTE(Lumiaaa @ Jan 11 2019, 01:34 PM)
Catholic Church > all

All other church not under Pope is false

The rest esp CHC are only run by self centered egoistic people
*

My teaching is right, others is wrong.

Hence why we have religion war.

It's sad that god can't come to tell all his devout followers which one is correct, so that all can follow the right path and stop killing each others.




Or that was the plan all along...
desmond2020
post Jan 11 2019, 01:49 PM

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QUOTE(spacelion @ Jan 11 2019, 01:47 PM)
I agree with this principle though, bcos my pastor is not paid by church.

But what then should we say about those Pastors who take a normal salary.
*
There is a different for pasti to take say 5k a month to a pastor who gross more that one million per annum from church fund


The line is clear that extravagant pastor salary is not.part of bible teaching
spacelion
post Jan 11 2019, 01:50 PM

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At the end of the day no one here will be able to agree on this issue. TS just stirring the pot and fanning the flames.

Let God judge.
nuvi
post Jan 11 2019, 01:51 PM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 01:39 PM)
In that case, sorry because too many members here behave like ISIS, threten and twist my words, sound so scary.
History definitely will record, but the record must not praise the scammer, I did mention above, wrong is wrong
*

Wrong or right is based on each interpretation.
SG law find it is wrong but maybe for the association in here find such action is permissible.
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post Jan 11 2019, 01:53 PM

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QUOTE(spacelion @ Jan 11 2019, 01:50 PM)
At the end of the day no one here will be able to agree on this issue. TS just stirring the pot and fanning the flames.

Let God judge.
*
semua gaduh ts jugak yg tepuk tangan hehe

that pastor already convicted, sudah masuk jail, nak jugak ungkit" bikin topik

This post has been edited by Starbucki: Jan 11 2019, 01:54 PM
spacelion
post Jan 11 2019, 01:53 PM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Jan 11 2019, 01:49 PM)
There is a different for pasti to take say 5k a month to a pastor who gross more that one million per annum from church fund
The line is clear that extravagant pastor salary is not.part of bible teaching
*
5k salary ? that's too little.

should a pastor house, car, childrens education, be provided for by church ? or not. I think many people will have problem with this.

Nowadays pastor need computer to prepare notes. They need books, materials.

There is a problem with paying too little to someone who is the head of any organization, religious or otherwise - if they start to lack, they might be swayed by people who decide to "help" them . This is why our politicians also draw a salary, and it's not a low salary either.
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post Jan 11 2019, 01:54 PM

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QUOTE(agent sawyer @ Jan 11 2019, 08:49 AM)
You're the one totally confused about this situation to the point of accusing this church of a crime, and you're calling me illiterate?
Better than accusing people of crime without purpose or proof
WOW. And this is your "proof" that Collective KL is a scammer

Go on, submit this as "proof" in a report to PDRM. I dare you. I double dare you. Go on, Mr. Socially Responsible.
Exactly. Which is why your earlier statement is wrong.
Some people commenting on her posts identify her as Buddhist, and if you read her posts you'll see she does show signs of that
NO. You're not talking about "scammer" right now, you're talking about an innocent church as if they are proven scammers

I could describe my current activity as talking to a "slanderous liar" with more proof than you have
Because whatever else he did in his church, he did also inspire the pastors of Collective KL to found their church

You're so smart to read their website but you can't understand this?

And dare to call people "illiterate"... haiz doh.gif
I'm not a member

but I know people who go there

you can say I'm concerned with their reputation, so yes, if I see some moron slandering them even if it's just /ktard stupidity, I'll jump in and "protek"
*
write so long got use ah?

u trying to protek him from slandering without proof but in return he accuse you of protek the church pulak laugh.gif
Baconateer
post Jan 11 2019, 01:57 PM

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QUOTE(Lumiaaa @ Jan 11 2019, 01:34 PM)
Catholic Church > all

All other church not under Pope is false

The rest esp CHC are only run by self centered egoistic people
*
why u like tht one

user posted image

this is also a religion...
TSwhitefong
post Jan 11 2019, 01:57 PM

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QUOTE(nuvi @ Jan 11 2019, 01:51 PM)
Wrong or right is based on each interpretation.
SG law find it is wrong but maybe for the association in here find such action is permissible.
*
OMG, no such things stealing church money is wrong, stealing is wrong in every countries. How can people still encourage such wrong doing? No wonder Malaysia has so many money games
How we gonna educate our kid in this way? should we tell them stealing in Singapore in wrong, stealing in Malaysia is legal? so behave nicely in Singapore, come back you can steal as much as you want?

I never expect there is so many twisted comment

This post has been edited by whitefong: Jan 11 2019, 02:02 PM
Elgore
post Jan 11 2019, 01:57 PM

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QUOTE(Baconateer @ Jan 11 2019, 01:57 PM)
why u like tht one

user posted image

this is also a religion...
*
ayyyy
desmond2020
post Jan 11 2019, 01:57 PM

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QUOTE(spacelion @ Jan 11 2019, 01:53 PM)
5k salary ? that's too little.

should a pastor house, car, childrens education, be provided for by church ? or not. I think many people will have problem with this.

Nowadays pastor need computer to prepare notes. They need books, materials.

There is a problem with paying too little to someone who is the head of any organization, religious or otherwise - if they start to lack, they might be swayed by people who decide to "help" them . This is why our politicians also draw a salary, and it's not a low salary either.
*
If you want to be abundant with material wealth don't become a pastor
nuvi
post Jan 11 2019, 02:03 PM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 01:57 PM)
OMG, no such things stealing church money is wrong, stealing is wrong in every countries. How can people still encourage such wrong doing? No wonder Malaysia has so many money games in Malaysia
How we gonna educate our kid in this way? should we tell them stealing in Singapore in wrong, stealing in Malaysia is legal? so behave nicely in Singapore, come back you can steal as much as you want?

I never expect there is so many twisted comment
*

Err... No. It just means you still very naive. Haven't see other part of the world.
There's even preacher that ask his followers to help him buy jet plane.

To each his own interpretations.
spacelion
post Jan 11 2019, 02:04 PM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 01:57 PM)
OMG, no such things stealing church money is wrong, stealing is wrong in every countries. How can people still encourage such wrong doing? No wonder Malaysia has so many money games in Malaysia
How we gonna educate our kid in this way? should we tell them stealing in Singapore in wrong, stealing in Malaysia is legal? so behave nicely in Singapore, come back you can steal as much as you want?

I never expect there is so many twisted comment
*
Hillsong Church makes over $100m
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/...b97ad0ba0a6f1bd

QUOTE
A Hillsong spokesman would not reveal how much Mr Houston was paid, citing a church policy to “not divulge personal details including salaries of its staff”.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joyce_Meyer
Joyce Meyer used to take over 900k salary. She even got her own private jet.

Bill Johnson (senior pastor of Bethel Church) last reported salary in 2010 was 380k USD.

Do you listen to any of these ministries ? You should also be careful ya.
spacelion
post Jan 11 2019, 02:05 PM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Jan 11 2019, 01:57 PM)
If you want to be abundant with material wealth don't become a pastor
*
well said.

i hope you don't go to a church with this kind of pastor icon_idea.gif
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post Jan 11 2019, 02:09 PM

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QUOTE(nuvi @ Jan 11 2019, 02:03 PM)
Err... No. It just means you still very naive. Haven't see other part of the world.
There's even preacher that ask his followers to help him buy jet plane.

To each his own interpretations.
*
No, we know. So do we need to continue to encourage this? Money game is gray area things, they dwell in an illegal zone; but the church is different it is a holy place, we should not let such immoral things happened dude, you know the difference?
nuvi
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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 02:09 PM)
No, we know. So do we need to continue to encourage this? Money game is gray area things, they dwell in an illegal zone; but the church is different it is a holy place, we should not let such immoral things happened dude, you know the difference?
*

As I said, to each his own interpretations.
Wrong for you might not be wrong for others.

So you feel they doing the wrong thing. And your ways to stop them is by opening thread in /k to rant? I don't think that will be effective. You don't even present what's those churches in Malaysia doing wrong.
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QUOTE(nuvi @ Jan 11 2019, 02:15 PM)
As I said, to each his own interpretations.
Wrong for you might not be wrong for others.

So you feel they doing the wrong thing. And your ways to stop them is by opening thread in /k to rant? I don't think that will be effective. You don't even present what's those churches in Malaysia doing wrong.
*
your words: "Wrong for you might not be wrong for others."
Okay, nvm just let me know, your personal opinion stealing is right or wrong?

This post has been edited by whitefong: Jan 11 2019, 02:19 PM
teehk_tee
post Jan 11 2019, 02:20 PM

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lel

looks like sheep in churches, really are sheep in real life

brainwashed so hard to receive the word of god from the messenger's mouth, to the point need to worship the messenger by potek the messenger songlap and rewarding the messenger with high pay

KEKKKKKKKK
nuvi
post Jan 11 2019, 02:21 PM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 02:19 PM)
your words: "Wrong for you might not be wrong for others."
Okay, nvm just let me know, your personal opinion stealing is right or wrong?
*

My personal opinion stealing is wrong.

Now show me how he steal money from those churches in Malaysia?
error
post Jan 11 2019, 02:23 PM

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actually i still dont understand what is TS purpose of this tered.

If you just want to remove KH name from the church, u know that this is /k right ?

If you want to so call educate ppl about KH and the churches, news are aplenty. Let the ppl decide themselves whether they still want to attend or not. If ppl still wants to go, who are you to stop them. You realised that this is not the only church that has mega scandal right? Especially in Malaysia.

If you just want to stir shit about KH, then i guess you're in the right place.
nuvi
post Jan 11 2019, 02:23 PM

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TS triggered like rabid dog padahal the whole article was to attack Hannah Yeoh.
TSwhitefong
post Jan 11 2019, 02:27 PM

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QUOTE(nuvi @ Jan 11 2019, 02:21 PM)
My personal opinion stealing is wrong.

Now show me how he steal money from those churches in Malaysia?
*
I don't understand why you need to keep protect the church, and repeatedly ask something I have already answered. I start to suspect you are one of them.
If the church seriously thinks stealing is wrong, remove the Pastor "Kong Hee"name that all. You don't need admire a hypocrite seriously
I have already explained the same things, you can record Hitler in history book, but you don't need praise the Hitler
spacelion
post Jan 11 2019, 02:30 PM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 02:27 PM)
I don't understand why you need to keep protect the church, and repeatedly ask something I have already answered. I start to suspect you are one of them.
If the church seriously thinks stealing is wrong, remove the Pastor "Kong Hee"name that all. You don't need admire a hypocrite seriously
I have already explained the same things, you can record Hitler in history book, but you don't need praise the Hitler
*
does your religion teach forgiveness ? If it does, why don't you give KH a 2nd chance? hypocrite much ?
nuvi
post Jan 11 2019, 02:31 PM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 02:27 PM)
I don't understand why you need to keep protect the church, and repeatedly ask something I have already answered. I start to suspect you are one of them.
If the church seriously thinks stealing is wrong, remove the Pastor "Kong Hee"name that all. You don't need admire a hypocrite seriously
I have already explained the same things, you can record Hitler in history book, but you don't need praise the Hitler
*

Where did they praise KH? You don't even put the link of their praise to him in the first post.

I'm not protecting the church, I'm laughing at your stupidity. There's a difference.

Wait, you haven't answered my question. Show me how he steal money from those churches in Malaysia?

This post has been edited by nuvi: Jan 11 2019, 02:33 PM
skyblu3
post Jan 11 2019, 02:33 PM

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Last month on CI channel for a series of documentaty taking about cults.... Scary of what is happening inside. This series featured Jehova witnesses, davidians David Koresh, got one Christian cult lead by a Korean they hold guns in the church.,

Scary.
TSwhitefong
post Jan 11 2019, 02:41 PM

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QUOTE(spacelion @ Jan 11 2019, 02:30 PM)
does your religion teach forgiveness ? If it does, why don't you give KH a 2nd chance? hypocrite much ?
*
Forgiveness does not apply to Kong Hee, He never admits his wrong, His wife even worst still blame God, she write this "Entertainment world were suspicious of me, many times i asked God how more I had to do it" God never ask her to do so, she want herself yet she blame God
Kong hee is not, he brainwashed the adherent, he uses the church money for luxury life. He definitely wants forgiveness to continue scam more money

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x7WcpIsM3c

This post has been edited by whitefong: Jan 11 2019, 02:46 PM
starlight glimmer
post Jan 11 2019, 02:42 PM

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Woah, scammer have branch in Malaysia somemore, I thought pastor not suppose to be rich? They should be humble
Starbucki
post Jan 11 2019, 02:43 PM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 02:41 PM)
Kong hee is not, he brainwashed the adherent, he uses the church money for luxury life. He definitely wants forgiveness to continue scam more money

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x7WcpIsM3c
*
Mark 11:25 ESV
And whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against anyone, so that your Father also who is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.”

desmond2020
post Jan 11 2019, 02:48 PM

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QUOTE(Starbucki @ Jan 11 2019, 02:43 PM)
Mark 11:25 ESV
And whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against anyone, so that your Father also who is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.”
*
“False christs and false prophets will ariseand perform signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect. But be on guard; I have told you all things beforehand.” (Mark 13:22–23; see also Matthew 24:24)
spacelion
post Jan 11 2019, 02:54 PM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 02:41 PM)
Forgiveness does not apply to Kong Hee, He never admits his wrong, His wife even worst still blame God, she write this "Entertainment world were suspicious of me, many times i asked God how more I had to do it" God never ask her to do so, she want herself yet she blame God
Kong hee is not, he brainwashed the adherent, he uses the church money for luxury life. He definitely wants forgiveness to continue scam more money

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x7WcpIsM3c
*
wow

that level of hate

im glad you're not a christian
doppatroll
post Jan 11 2019, 02:55 PM

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QUOTE(nintendo86 @ Jan 10 2019, 11:52 PM)
Malaysia, paradise for conman
*
this,
See how easily women been con give our money and also to bed....we not really smart enough to tick off the con project
TSwhitefong
post Jan 11 2019, 03:00 PM

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QUOTE(spacelion @ Jan 11 2019, 02:54 PM)
wow

that level of hate

im glad you're not a christian
*
sorry, this is not hate, I think they already toxic your thinking, you don't understand how to differentiate right or wrong
I am secular christian, but I pray at home, I do good more than Kong hee, I help people without carry any name of organisation
Do you know there is a special hell ready to rip off the bad soul who protect the scammer?

https://mothership.sg/2018/12/chew-eng-han-...vest-convicted/

Look at this leader, attempt to run away from Singapore. Tell me such hypocrites, do they even feel guilty?

This post has been edited by whitefong: Jan 11 2019, 03:02 PM
spacelion
post Jan 11 2019, 03:05 PM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 03:00 PM)
sorry, this is not hate, I think they already toxic your thinking, you don't understand how to differentiate right or wrong
I am secular christian, but I pray at home, I do good more than Kong hee, I help people without carry any name of organisation
Do you know there is a special hell ready to rip off the bad soul who protect the scammer?

https://mothership.sg/2018/12/chew-eng-han-...vest-convicted/

Look at this leader, attempt to run away from Singapore. Tell me such hypocrites, do they even feel guilty?
*
sorry girl , there is only 1 hell , where unbelievers will spend together with rapists and murderers. there isn't any difference between sin. if you thought it's like dante's Inferno then I think you are mistaken
desmond2020
post Jan 11 2019, 03:30 PM

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QUOTE(spacelion @ Jan 11 2019, 03:05 PM)
sorry girl , there is only 1 hell , where unbelievers will spend together with rapists and murderers. there isn't any difference between sin. if you thought it's like dante's Inferno then I think you are mistaken
*
Well no


All sins separate us from God


But not all sins have same judgement



spacelion
post Jan 11 2019, 03:52 PM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Jan 11 2019, 03:30 PM)
Well no
All sins separate us from God
But not all sins have same judgement
*
where did you get that from
bumpo
post Jan 11 2019, 03:58 PM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 12:30 AM)
Not so sure, but in the United state they did "seperate the church from the state". I guess the move is to prevent scammer, to scam money in the name of God
*
you need to update yourself on what separation of state and church means. no, it does not mean to prevent scammer to scam moneh sweat.gif

QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 07:39 AM)
Many members here, the fact is MD and A company owned by the same person. It is not a cock, it is a scam
It is very simple for a company A not to involve, just remove the "Kong Hee" scammer name. End of story
But we don't understand why Company A refuse to remove the name
*
a simple reason. fact. person A inspired you which led to founding of organization B and in website you mention this fact.
later person A was exposed for doing bad things.

does this make you and organization B equally guilty of person A's bad doing?
does having the fact of person A influence on you in found of organization B listed in website makes you guilty?
does removing person A name from website make you innocent?

what is your obsession with the name censorship? hmm.gif

QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 11:06 AM)
it is still a gratitutte Lolx

What kind of twisting logic is this? Is this how you brainwashed the adherent? If he is a good teacher, good personality, we definitely respect him. Robbing is wrong, of course we condemn. Is any school in Malaysia or Singapore will praise the bad teacher publicly? I doubt so. If you want to show personal gratitude, you should do it privately, not put on the public website, this is misleading
Just a reverse question, if the "Good teacher" kill your relative during the rob, can you still show gratitude to him and walk away, said " Nvm he used to be good teacher, is okay for him to kill? Okay ?
*
"give credit where credit is due"
you heard this phrase before?

in example of that teacher,
praise him of the good job he did in educating you.
condemn him for the wrong he has done.
these are 2 different action done by that person. one does not cancel out the other.

why is it ok to be grateful privately but not publicly?
if you successful one day and interview come ask you, how did you learn so well, would you hide the fact that the teacher who is now a criminal once thought you and it is that education that help made you who you are today?
if you say yes to that, you myfren, sorry to say, is not a very decent human being.

QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 02:41 PM)
Forgiveness does not apply to Kong Hee, He never admits his wrong, His wife even worst still blame God, she write this "Entertainment world were suspicious of me, many times i asked God how more I had to do it" God never ask her to do so, she want herself yet she blame God
Kong hee is not, he brainwashed the adherent, he uses the church money for luxury life. He definitely wants forgiveness to continue scam more money

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x7WcpIsM3c
*
why so much hate in you? you reek of hate and personal grudge for Kong Hee.
very emotionally triggered sweat.gif sweat.gif
go personal stake in all this ah? hmm.gif

aacow
post Jan 11 2019, 04:02 PM

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Chrstians also got bad pipul, only Sunday suddenly become good...
TSwhitefong
post Jan 11 2019, 05:57 PM

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QUOTE(bumpo @ Jan 11 2019, 03:58 PM)
you need to update yourself on what separation of state and church means. no, it does not mean to prevent scammer to scam moneh  sweat.gif
a simple reason. fact. person A inspired you which led to founding of organization B and in website you mention this fact.
later person A was exposed for doing bad things.

does this make you and organization B equally guilty of person A's bad doing?
does having the fact of person A influence on you in found of organization B listed in website makes you guilty?
does removing person A name from website make you innocent?

what is your obsession with the name censorship?  hmm.gif
"give credit where credit is due"
you heard this phrase before?

in example of that teacher,
praise him of the good job he did in educating you.
condemn him for the wrong he has done.
these are 2 different action done by that person. one does not cancel out the other.

why is it ok to be grateful privately but not publicly?
if you successful one day and interview come ask you, how did you learn so well, would you hide the fact that the teacher who is now a criminal once thought you and it is that education that help made you who you are today?
if you say yes to that, you myfren, sorry to say, is not a very decent human being.
why so much hate in you? you reek of hate and personal grudge for Kong Hee.
very emotionally triggered  sweat.gif  sweat.gif
go personal stake in all this ah?  hmm.gif
*
Uhm I explain before, seem like you all really have a lot of hate, unwilling to listen, keep repeating the same question which already answer. doh.gif doh.gif
seriously this TS is not about religion, we talking about the scam. (To answer those illiterate who report this TS) doh.gif doh.gif shocking.gif
Seriously pity the adherent not only blind, but also willing to devote themselves to the scammer
No wonder JJPTR/ Richway those money game scam can survive so long

This post has been edited by whitefong: Jan 11 2019, 06:07 PM
starlight glimmer
post Jan 11 2019, 06:43 PM

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what a religion cult
bumpo
post Jan 11 2019, 06:45 PM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 05:57 PM)
Uhm I explain before, seem like you all really have a lot of hate, unwilling to listen, keep repeating the same question which already answer.  doh.gif  doh.gif 
seriously this TS is not about religion, we talking about the scam. (To answer those illiterate who report this TS) doh.gif  doh.gif  shocking.gif
Seriously pity the adherent not only blind, but also willing to devote themselves to the scammer
No wonder JJPTR/ Richway those money game scam can survive so long
*
your initial explanations started from switching churches then removing name from website and maybe some other in the later page as response to different posters.
what intrigue me is the 'why' part that arose from your explanation.

kh have church in sg
kh influenced others and result church in my
kh manages in sg
someone else manages in my
sg church no touchytouchy my church $$ and vice versa
essentially 2 separate entities

kh kena caught doing bad stuff

why my church need to censor kh name and contribution in its founding?
why are you so vested in getting kh name censored? hmm.gif hmm.gif

mind you its not like my church is saying that kh is innocent and is being wrongly prosecuted and they truly believe what he did is right and just and they also do the same on the website snippet you shared
if they said something to this effect then it is understandable but to get such emotional response like this at the mention of kh role in their founding history is something else la

your reaction in this thread thus far is far beyond a simple "do your part to spread awareness". it seems like you have an axe to grind with kh sweat.gif sweat.gif

This post has been edited by bumpo: Jan 11 2019, 06:45 PM
starlight glimmer
post Jan 11 2019, 06:55 PM

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QUOTE(bumpo @ Jan 11 2019, 06:45 PM)
your initial explanations started from switching churches then removing name from website and maybe some other in the later page as response to different posters.
what intrigue me is the 'why' part that arose from your explanation.

kh have church in sg
kh influenced others and result church in my
kh manages in sg
someone else manages in my
sg church no touchytouchy my church $$ and vice versa
essentially 2 separate entities

kh kena caught doing bad stuff

why my church need to censor kh name and contribution in its founding?
why are you so vested in getting kh name censored?  hmm.gif  hmm.gif

mind you its not like my church is saying that kh is innocent and is being wrongly prosecuted and they truly believe what he did is right and just and they also do the same on the website snippet you shared
if they said something to this effect then it is understandable but to get such emotional response like this at the mention of kh role in their founding history is something else la

your reaction in this thread thus far is far beyond a simple "do your part to spread awareness". it seems like you have an axe to grind with kh  sweat.gif  sweat.gif
*
are you telling us that you are helping the scammer?
bumpo
post Jan 11 2019, 07:06 PM

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QUOTE(starlight glimmer @ Jan 11 2019, 06:55 PM)
are you telling us that you are helping the scammer?
*
church in sg = church in SINGAPORE
church in my = church in MALAYSIA
therefore
sg church = SINGAPORE church
my church = MALAYSIA church not "saya punya" church


clear? sweat.gif sweat.gif sweat.gif



starlight glimmer
post Jan 11 2019, 07:08 PM

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QUOTE(bumpo @ Jan 11 2019, 07:06 PM)
church in sg = church in SINGAPORE
church in my = church in MALAYSIA
therefore
sg church = SINGAPORE church
my church = MALAYSIA church not "saya punya" church
clear?  sweat.gif  sweat.gif  sweat.gif
*
both church is link together to the 1 person who scam christian. However he is in the jail but the scam is on going without mastermind.
bumpo
post Jan 11 2019, 07:26 PM

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QUOTE(starlight glimmer @ Jan 11 2019, 07:08 PM)
both church is link together to the 1 person who scam christian. However he is in the jail but the scam is on going without mastermind.
*
if memory recalls, the person got nailed for CBT no?
not just he alone but the sg church management. a group of them.
if sg and my runs by different management then it is slander to say my is also CBT

to say both are link to same person the way you are imply is to say that kh is actively running my church or my church management is in on it and doing same bad things here.
this is very very different from saying he had a role in founding the my church. just because there is a link it does not mean he is actively managing my or my management is in on it.

to describe it as a scam without mastermind is to say the church itself is a scam operation and not a few ppl in power turned bad.

either you got no proof and just blowing hot air which makes you a liar or you got proof but not reporting it to authority to take action which makes you an accomplice to the crime
either way am not gonna argue with you on your bold claims there. that is your freedom of speech cool2.gif
rooney723
post Jan 11 2019, 07:34 PM

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i still rmb last time i knew a few ppl frm city harvest kl church, they will defend kong hee like damn hardcore man, i questioned them about kong hee's innocence n i got blasted left n right by all of them

i was like thinking these bunch of fools will just defend kong hee even if kong hee steals their money, the same thing portrayed by hardcore jibby macais, evidence is thr but they just choose to ignore it, damb disgusting man, i wan to tell them straight if they still think kong hee is innocent then they should also confirm jibby is innocnent as well and vote bn at the coming 15th GE

bunch of ignorant delusional fools
starlight glimmer
post Jan 11 2019, 08:35 PM

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QUOTE(rooney723 @ Jan 11 2019, 07:34 PM)
i still rmb last time i knew a few ppl frm city harvest kl church, they will defend kong hee like damn hardcore man, i questioned them about kong hee's innocence n i got blasted left n right by all of them

i was like thinking these bunch of fools will just defend kong hee even if kong hee steals their money, the same thing portrayed by hardcore jibby macais, evidence is thr but they just choose to ignore it, damb disgusting man, i wan to tell them straight if they still think kong hee is innocent then they should also confirm jibby is innocnent as well and vote bn at the coming 15th GE

bunch of ignorant delusional fools
*
when believers believe he is innocent he have done no wrongdoing in the religon, same goes with najib where all the idiots believe his religion will forgive his sin than corruption. syukurlah. Therefore not his fault, blame the non believers.
Be a cult XD

This post has been edited by starlight glimmer: Jan 11 2019, 08:36 PM
TSwhitefong
post Jan 11 2019, 09:36 PM

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QUOTE(spacelion @ Jan 11 2019, 03:52 PM)
where did you get that from
*
I guess what he means is like pastor Kong hee and Najib. Like you said if everything can be forgive even after they done horrible things, technically we don't need Hell anymore, because Hell never serve it's original purpose
Everyone can go to heaven, even for a bad guy

This post has been edited by whitefong: Jan 11 2019, 09:37 PM
agent sawyer
post Jan 11 2019, 10:19 PM

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QUOTE(Elgore @ Jan 11 2019, 01:54 PM)
write so long got use ah?

u trying to protek him from slandering without proof but in return he accuse you of protek the church pulak  laugh.gif
*
other people can read

but as for this guy, he has an agenda from the start to stir up trouble

now he is even claiming he is a "secular christian" whatever the heck that is, as if it gives him some kind of legitimacy to criticise

but he has always been anti-religion from the start

QUOTE(starlight glimmer @ Jan 11 2019, 07:08 PM)
both church is link together to the 1 person who scam christian. However he is in the jail but the scam is on going without mastermind.
*
prove it

or else you are defaming Collective KL

This post has been edited by agent sawyer: Jan 11 2019, 10:24 PM
desmond2020
post Jan 11 2019, 10:30 PM

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Wow


Someone really triggered here
TSwhitefong
post Jan 11 2019, 10:30 PM

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QUOTE(agent sawyer @ Jan 11 2019, 10:19 PM)
other people can read

but as for this guy, he has an agenda from the start to stir up trouble
prove it

or else you are defaming Collective KL
*
I guess you just try to be an ignorant, such negative such toxic fanatic, repeating ask something already answered. The TS have already shown how Kong Hee related to Collective
I guess now the followers just behave like UMNO members, argue pointless things
There are so many churches out there, but you choose to admire scammer. Seriously, I have no clue lolx
Kong Hee cast a magic on you? rclxub.gif

This post has been edited by whitefong: Jan 11 2019, 10:37 PM
agent sawyer
post Jan 11 2019, 10:32 PM

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QUOTE(Lumiaaa @ Jan 11 2019, 01:36 PM)
How can you pray while having pop concert

That is so stupid

Imagine mosque have pop concert pray to Allah
*
allow me to attempt a (long-ish) explanation

music has always been a part of Christian worship, the Bible legit includes worship songs from ancient Israeli times

for a long time worship involved hymns such as "Amazing Grace" which I'm sure most people heard of



many religious Christmas songs too - in fact the majority of Christmas songs minus the secular American pop of the past 100-odd years, because up until then, Christmas obviously is a religious celebration

American and English churches both have hymns literally hundreds of years old, some which are still sung today

meanwhile the Catholics prefer to sing Latin traditional hymns during Mass, maybe the most famous is Ave Maria

so anyway well, these modern American Christians, their idea is this: why can't Christian worship songs adopt the same musical and lyrical structure of rock and pop songs?

after all, pop is a matter of perspective, pop literally is short for "popular". Hymns are simply reflecting what was popular then. As the years advance, popular music changes in tone, style, beat, etc.

In short: Why should hymns remain the hymns of the 1980s (for example), and not updated to 2000s standards... considering that the hymns of the 1980s which we love today, were considered "stupid pop" in 1980... and the hymns of 1930s (for example) were probably considered "stupid pop" back in 1930... Who knows if in 2030 people will be saying "hymns should be more like hymns of the 2000s"

Even though I myself don't subscribe to this view, they have a point... I myself object to this view, because I love the old-fashioned hymns of the 90s, 80s... BUT again, maybe I just like them because they are what I grew up with.

I'm self-aware enough to know that...
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post Jan 11 2019, 10:35 PM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 10:30 PM)
I guess you just try to be an ignorant, such negative such toxic behavior, repeating ask something already answered. The TS have already shown how Kong Hee related to Collective
and the relation is irrelevant

therefore you are WRONG in calling Collective KL a scam based on this relation

therefore you are a DEFAMATORY, SLANDEROUS LIAR

QUOTE
There are so many churches out there, but you choose to admire scammer. Seriously, I have no clue lolx
Kong Hee cast a magic on you? rclxub.gif
*
Nobody is "admiring" any "scammer"

QUOTE
I guess now the followers just behave like UMNO members, argue pointless things
Speaking of UMNO

MMU's Chancellor is the legal advisor of UMNO, YABhg. Tun Dato' Seri Zaki Tun Azmi who is linked to certain scandals

Going by your logic, MMU is a scam organisation and all their employees and graduates scammers

agree?

This post has been edited by agent sawyer: Jan 11 2019, 10:36 PM
Lumiaaa
post Jan 11 2019, 10:40 PM

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QUOTE(agent sawyer @ Jan 11 2019, 10:32 PM)
allow me to attempt a (long-ish) explanation

music has always been a part of Christian worship, the Bible legit includes worship songs from ancient Israeli times

for a long time worship involved hymns such as "Amazing Grace" which I'm sure most people heard of



many religious Christmas songs too - in fact the majority of Christmas songs minus the secular American pop of the past 100-odd years, because up until then, Christmas obviously is a religious celebration

American and English churches both have hymns literally hundreds of years old, some which are still sung today

meanwhile the Catholics prefer to sing Latin traditional hymns during Mass, maybe the most famous is Ave Maria

so anyway well, these modern American Christians, their idea is this: why can't Christian worship songs adopt the same musical and lyrical structure of rock and pop songs?

after all, pop is a matter of perspective, pop literally is short for "popular". Hymns are simply reflecting what was popular then. As the years advance, popular music changes in tone, style, beat, etc.

In short: Why should hymns remain the hymns of the 1980s (for example), and not updated to 2000s standards... considering that the hymns of the 1980s which we love today, were considered "stupid pop" in 1980... and the hymns of 1930s (for example) were probably considered "stupid pop" back in 1930... Who knows if in 2030 people will be saying "hymns should be more like hymns of the 2000s"

Even though I myself don't subscribe to this view, they have a point... I myself object to this view, because I love the old-fashioned hymns of the 90s, 80s... BUT again, maybe I just like them because they are what I grew up with.

I'm self-aware enough to know that...
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I just find it cringe

Probably the same way imagine Azan sung in rock concert
TSwhitefong
post Jan 11 2019, 10:48 PM

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QUOTE(agent sawyer @ Jan 11 2019, 10:35 PM)
and the relation is irrelevant

therefore you are WRONG in calling Collective KL a scam based on this relation

therefore you are a DEFAMATORY, SLANDEROUS LIAR
Nobody is "admiring" any "scammer"
Speaking of UMNO

MMU's Chancellor is the legal advisor of UMNO, YABhg. Tun Dato' Seri Zaki Tun Azmi who is linked to certain scandals

Going by your logic, MMU is a scam organisation and all their employees and graduates scammers

agree?
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Okay
- Without Pr. Kong and his wife Sun, we wouldn’t be where we are today. City Harvest is not just a name that we have carried but an identity we have come to embrace.

City Harvest is not just a name that we have carried, (so the "we" is Collective KL, Collective Kl admit it, so what you gonna said) ?
but an identity we have come to embrace. <<<< so how about this?

Seem like Singapore citizen, goverment, helen or us who criticise the scammer is a bad guy?
Only Pastor Kong Hee, the scammer is the right one rclxub.gif rclxub.gif

This post has been edited by whitefong: Jan 11 2019, 11:46 PM
Fat & Fluffy
post Jan 11 2019, 10:48 PM

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From: Hong Kong



QUOTE(spacelion @ Jan 11 2019, 04:04 PM)
Hillsong Church makes over $100m
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/...b97ad0ba0a6f1bd
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joyce_Meyer
Joyce Meyer used to take over 900k salary. She even got her own private jet.

Bill Johnson (senior pastor of Bethel Church) last reported salary in 2010 was 380k USD.

Do you listen to any of these ministries ? You should also be careful ya.
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i quite like hillsong..
C-Fu
post Jan 11 2019, 11:59 PM

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From: Brisbane, QLD, Ostolia



I like how a dupe tries so hard to justify a scam operation.
agent sawyer
post Jan 12 2019, 08:14 AM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 10:48 PM)
Okay
Without Pr. Kong and his wife Sun, we wouldn’t be where we are today. City Harvest is not just a name that we have carried but an identity we have come to embrace.

City Harvest is not just a name that we have carried, (so the "we" is Collective KL, Collective Kl admit it, so what you gonna said) ?
but an identity we have come to embrace. <<<< so how about this?

Seem like Singapore citizen, goverment, helen or us who criticise the scammer is a bad guy?
Only Pastor Kong Hee, the scammer is the right one  rclxub.gif  rclxub.gif
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so what's your point?

did Collective KL say KONG HEE SCAMMER AND I LIKE KONG HEE SCAM AND AYAM SCAMMER TOO?

no right?

they simply said exactly what they said - Kong Hee previously inspired the church, and that is their founding identity. they aren't remitting money to Kong Hee.

anybody even non-Christians would understand where they are coming from. but simply because they have this connection which they aren't trying to cover up, YOU want to push your "scammer" agenda

to the point where you can loudly open thread COLLECTIVE KL IS A SCAM simply on the strength of this doh.gif

like that might as well say MULTIMEDIA UNIVERSITY IS A SCAM UNIVERSITY simply cause the Chancellor is in UMNO top leadership doh.gif

the problem is YOU, not anybody else
MishimaZ
post Jan 12 2019, 08:47 AM

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QUOTE(Lumiaaa @ Jan 11 2019, 01:36 PM)
How can you pray while having pop concert

That is so stupid

Imagine mosque have pop concert pray to Allah
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Xsence
post Jan 12 2019, 09:47 AM

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From: Kuala Lumpur


QUOTE(Lumiaaa @ Jan 11 2019, 01:36 PM)
How can you pray while having pop concert

That is so stupid

Imagine mosque have pop concert pray to Allah
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