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 Nintendo Switch Official Thread v2, Portable? Home console? whynotboth.jpg

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Upsilon
post Jun 9 2017, 08:30 AM

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QUOTE(stringfellow @ Jun 9 2017, 02:50 AM)
for real.

Have you seen Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild running in 4K? The graphics and texture assets are just up-ressed from the stock graphics, and it looks magnificent in 4K. I've tested it on the emulator (CEMU), but the ever changing nature of emulator and requirement to download updated versions of the emulator, needs to retweak. But the fact is, assets already present inside the game is beautiful enough for the game to run by increasing the resolution. The same principle with 3DS and its Citra emulator, the only thing holding it back is the pathetic hardware inside the 3DS itself. Move those assets to Switch and you have the same effect as you've seen there. Games these days running on emulators are developed with graphics engine with in-game quality toggles already built-in, all you need is to enable them on different hardware.

That's the technical side of it, but judging from the reaction of Nintendo fans (here and elsewhere), they'll even take the game at 240p as it is, and even then, running it rendered at 240p, and blowing it up to 720 screen on the switch, would already show huge improvement over the shitty screen of the 3DS.
*
u r talking as if porting software that runs on one hardware to another is a button click away
it would be nice if that's so easy
often times it involves a lot of testing, and vomiting out a lot of platform specific code (every hardware + os combo has different way to produce graphics, play sounds, handles input and stuff, also not forgetting from DS -> switch, there is a screen fewer on switch)
considering they are selling you for a profit (so that they can pay the team properly at least), i suppose they have a lot of work to do to ensure the game is not only playable, but gives u good experience while playing it too (you wouldn't want a buggy game would you?)
instead of pet-project kinda nature of emulator development (i.e. the emulator devs typically won't die of hunger because they don't get paid to do their stuff, also speaking as a user of emulator, have you donated for their work?)

yea, i am a bit disappointed for not seeing a port of pokemon on switch (whichever version)
but that's okay, i suppose sooner or later we shall see one *finger crossed*
(argh, gimme back me 8 mins)


UPDATE:
yes, supporting mainstream game development engine like unity and unreal is there for switch, but being mainstream doesn't mean everyone uses it
and also doesn't mean you "write once and it runs on everything" kinda thing
often times there would be some work to do to optimize performance on each platform (hardware + OS combo)

This post has been edited by Upsilon: Jun 9 2017, 08:36 AM
LEO1989
post Jun 9 2017, 08:57 AM

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QUOTE(kuroneko0509 @ Jun 9 2017, 12:17 AM)
i'm just talking in general reaction when the trailer was first shown back during monhun championship where some people really thought switch ver. is just a simple upres (especially after ppl pointed out the ui is pixelated compared to mh3u hd) whereas it isn't when official screenshots came out + gameplay during Capcom tv. that bolded quote isn't directed at you if you thought it is in the first place

back to the hot stuff which is pokemon. i'd say a lot of people bought too much stock in eurogamer pokemon star rumour, where as past history with regard to pokemon mainline always tells us otherwise. i'm talking about:
1. new mainline never exist for a new device's 1st year
2. except for crystal, no other generation is crossgen. although this point debatable as some people didn't separate original Gameboy with Gameboy colour
3. standard pokemon generation last 3-4 years average, and gen 7 isn't even 1 year yet

let's go back a few days & ignore the ultra sun/moon announcement for a bit. there's 3 possible situation for a new mainline pokemon to be on:
1. switch exclusive
2. 3ds exclusive
3. switch + 3ds

option 1 probably what most switch owners want. option 2 is the easiest option to go. option 3 is best of the 2 worlds. mhxx opted for 3rd option, albeit staggered release hoping for some double dip. like I said days ago, 3rd option need to solve the connectivity issue as communication between players is key. mhxx did it, but limiting its interaction to online only. i'd say pokemon cannot opt that path because as much as ppl are loner & playing it at home w/o interaction face to face with other ppl, they (as in pokemon company & Nintendo) really promote face to face interaction, evidently strong lately with sun/moon commercials/trailers since last year.

now, i'm not totally disagreeing with everything that you posted with regard to pokemon, but let me ask for some clarification. which of the three option... actually no, option 1 or 3 (since you really hate the fact ultra sun/moon is on 3ds only) you would choose if you're game freak director, pokemon company boss or anyone that actually decide which platform to pick?

edit: oh, bonus stuff
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p...&postcount=1135
read it and give your calm, honest thought about it, with regard to the target demographics mainly
*
i would go for option 3! no harm to expand my customers, especially can gain customer in both switch and 3ds line.

LegendLee
post Jun 9 2017, 09:03 AM

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I'm sure a game freak Pokémon game will arrive to the switch. But not this year. Maybe next year or the year after.

Didn't they put up an ad for that ?
stringfellow
post Jun 9 2017, 12:22 PM

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QUOTE(Upsilon @ Jun 9 2017, 08:30 AM)
u r talking as if porting software that runs on one hardware to another is a button click away
it would be nice if that's so easy
often times it involves a lot of testing, and vomiting out a lot of platform specific code (every hardware + os combo has different way to produce graphics, play sounds, handles input and stuff, also not forgetting from DS -> switch, there is a screen fewer on switch)
considering they are selling you for a profit (so that they can pay the team properly at least), i suppose they have a lot of work to do to ensure the game is not only playable, but gives u good experience while playing it too (you wouldn't want a buggy game would you?)
instead of pet-project kinda nature of emulator development (i.e. the emulator devs typically won't die of hunger because they don't get paid to do their stuff, also speaking as a user of emulator, have you donated for their work?)

yea, i am a bit disappointed for not seeing a port of pokemon on switch (whichever version)
but that's okay, i suppose sooner or later we shall see one *finger crossed*
(argh, gimme back me 8 mins)
UPDATE:
yes, supporting mainstream game development engine like unity and unreal is there for switch, but being mainstream doesn't mean everyone uses it
and also doesn't mean you "write once and it runs on everything" kinda thing
often times there would be some work to do to optimize performance on each platform (hardware + OS combo)
*
You dont understand, this isn't PORTING, this is up-resolution. You use the same game asset and running it at higher resolution. No changes or extra work need to be done on the original game assets. Sure, you can troubleshoot and debug to make sure everything works, but as exemplified by Capcom with its MHXX "port" (if you wanna call that a port), that process doesn't take long. In MHXX's case, they're doing extra work on the game assets (improving geometry, adding texture details, etc), but the process I described is up-resolution. It's literally running the same game at higher resolution. That's what the image I linked meant, it's thesame game, but in the case of 3DS, the resulting image is downgraded to fit into the poor 3DS 240p screen.

This isn't about asking for a new Pokemon (not a remake, refresh, or a port of the current shitty 240p ones), this is about using the SAME game and uprezzing it. That Citra emulator image is proof, the emulator is not doing anything other than running the game at a higher resolution, using THE SAME ASSETS. Optimizing the game to run on the Switch? The game literally runs on 240p on the 3DS, and how many times more powerful is the Switch compared to the paltry 3DS? Even running that same same at 480p would've resulted in improvement already, good enough to put it on eShop for sale. TRY that Citra emulator, to get what I mean. I've tested LoZ BOTW WiiU running on emulator on my gaming PC, all I did was turn a few toggles in to run the game at 4K, using THE SAME GAME ASSETS, and the results are stunning. There are trickeries here, there are no SPECIAL VERSIONS of the game that has higher texture or better geometric details, it's the SAME GAME running at higher resolution.

You're sacrificing your eyeballs for the sake of portability, in this case, being able to play Pokemon portably but having to suffer through 240p 3DS image quality, when the game can scale up further to better resolution, USING THE SAME GAME ASSETS. Now, with the Switch, you have the option of running portably at a much more palatable 720p, is that bad? I have the original Nvidia Shield Portable, and running emulators on those is a dream, and that's running on a less capable hardware than the Switch.

This is also to alleviate the concern about games being separated by two platforms instead of one (3DS ONLY instead of both 3DS and Switch). Like I mentioned earlier, people have sold their 3DSes to fund for their Switech, also under the pretext that Nintendo had said to them that they're "unifying mobile and home platforms into a single platform". That's what the Switch promise is.......that's what they're banking on when Nintendo claimed that. See what happens now? Most early adopters are the hardest of hardcore Nintendo fans, and see how Nintendo treated them? I think even a mention of the games "coming soon" to Switch would've alleviate that feeling of betrayal that these Switch players felt about that Pokémon announcement.

This post has been edited by stringfellow: Jun 9 2017, 12:33 PM
Upsilon
post Jun 9 2017, 02:35 PM

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QUOTE(stringfellow @ Jun 9 2017, 12:22 PM)
You dont understand, this isn't PORTING, this is up-resolution. You use the same game asset and running it at higher resolution. No changes or extra work need to be done on the original game assets. Sure, you can troubleshoot and debug to make sure everything works, but as exemplified by Capcom with its MHXX "port" (if you wanna call that a port), that process doesn't take long. In MHXX's case, they're doing extra work on the game assets (improving geometry, adding texture details, etc), but the process I described is up-resolution. It's literally running the same game at higher resolution. That's what the image I linked meant, it's thesame game, but in the case of 3DS, the resulting image is downgraded to fit into the poor 3DS 240p screen.

This isn't about asking for a new Pokemon (not a remake, refresh, or a port of the current shitty 240p ones), this is about using the SAME game and uprezzing it. That Citra emulator image is proof, the emulator is not doing anything other than running the game at a higher resolution, using THE SAME ASSETS. Optimizing the game to run on the Switch? The game literally runs on 240p on the 3DS, and how many times more powerful is the Switch compared to the paltry 3DS? Even running that same same at 480p would've resulted in improvement already, good enough to put it on eShop for sale. TRY that Citra emulator, to get what I mean. I've tested LoZ BOTW WiiU running on emulator on my gaming PC, all I did was turn a few toggles in to run the game at 4K, using THE SAME GAME ASSETS, and the results are stunning. There are trickeries here, there are no SPECIAL VERSIONS of the game that has higher texture or better geometric details, it's the SAME GAME running at higher resolution.

You're sacrificing your eyeballs for the sake of portability, in this case, being able to play Pokemon portably but having to suffer through 240p 3DS image quality, when the game can scale up further to better resolution, USING THE SAME GAME ASSETS. Now, with the Switch, you have the option of running portably at a much more palatable 720p, is that bad? I have the original Nvidia Shield Portable, and running emulators on those is a dream, and that's running on a less capable hardware than the Switch.

This is also to alleviate the concern about games being separated by two platforms instead of one (3DS ONLY instead of both 3DS and Switch). Like I mentioned earlier, people have sold their 3DSes to fund for their Switech, also under the pretext that Nintendo had said to them that they're "unifying mobile and home platforms into a single platform". That's what the Switch promise is.......that's what they're banking on when Nintendo claimed that. See what happens now? Most early adopters are the hardest of hardcore Nintendo fans, and see how Nintendo treated them? I think even a mention of the games "coming soon" to Switch would've alleviate that feeling of betrayal that these Switch players felt about that Pokémon announcement.
*
I don't see why this is not a port
while both are running on ARM CPU, but the system software / OS running on top of both platforms are different
so they have different api calls to play sound, different api to render graphics, different api to handle controls
(for instance, just because ur pc is capable of running windows and linux, it doesnt mean all the games u play under windows would automagically work under linux, duh~)
(the marketing speech "write once, run everywhere" is a joke to a lot of programmers if you ask me)
(also i would be really sad if u r my project manager)

I am not familiar with DS's emulator, but usually an emulator emulates one specific platform (and possibly adding some enhancement)
if you must insist it is not much of an effort to make 3DS game run on switch (OK, if you don't think this is a port)
I suppose the better analogy is play 3DS games on a Wii U emulator (CEMU?) (or even a switch emulator, if it exists already)
Or run a Wii U game in a Wii Emulator (Dolphin)
(both wii and wii u are kinda similar, i think, Wii U is just offering better resolution mar /s )

having graphics asset is important, but it is not the only component in making a game work
as of Capcom's MHXX game, I suppose they put in effort in making sure their engine handles platform abstraction properly so porting is less an effort (not a hardcore gamer, not sure what game engine it is built with)

also to be fair, nintendo didn't really promise to bring pokemon to switch this soon prior to the direct
(yes, i hope for one, but im fine if they need more time)

This post has been edited by Upsilon: Jun 9 2017, 02:36 PM
greyshadow
post Jun 9 2017, 03:41 PM

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user posted image

This post has been edited by greyshadow: Jun 9 2017, 03:42 PM
greyshadow
post Jun 9 2017, 03:44 PM

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So Overwatch is coming to switch as well? hmm.gif

and 2 new Metroid games? hmm.gif
stringfellow
post Jun 9 2017, 03:55 PM

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QUOTE(Upsilon @ Jun 9 2017, 02:35 PM)
I don't see why this is not a port
while both are running on ARM CPU, but the system software / OS running on top of both platforms are different
so they have different api calls to play sound, different api to render graphics, different api to handle controls
(for instance, just because ur pc is capable of running windows and linux, it doesnt mean all the games u play under windows would automagically work under linux, duh~)
(the marketing speech "write once, run everywhere" is a joke to a lot of programmers if you ask me)
(also i would be really sad if u r my project manager)

I am not familiar with DS's emulator, but usually an emulator emulates one specific platform (and possibly adding some enhancement)
if you must insist it is not much of an effort to make 3DS game run on switch (OK, if you don't think this is a port)
I suppose the better analogy is play 3DS games on a Wii U emulator (CEMU?) (or even a switch emulator, if it exists already)
Or run a Wii U game in a Wii Emulator (Dolphin)
(both wii and wii u are kinda similar, i think, Wii U is just offering better resolution mar /s )

having graphics asset is important, but it is not the only component in making a game work
as of Capcom's MHXX game, I suppose they put in effort in making sure their engine handles platform abstraction properly so porting is less an effort (not a hardcore gamer, not sure what game engine it is built with)

also to be fair, nintendo didn't really promise to bring pokemon to switch this soon prior to the direct
(yes, i hope for one, but im fine if they need more time)
*
Take it as "virtual console" then. Or "emulation". The Switch is bursting at the seam with so much processing power, you seriously think emulating a 240p 3DS games is difficult?
stringfellow
post Jun 9 2017, 03:56 PM

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QUOTE(greyshadow @ Jun 9 2017, 03:41 PM)
user posted image
*
confirmed fake. can't even spell "Platform" correctly. Which high school prankster did this?
Kyoyagami
post Jun 9 2017, 07:48 PM

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Fakkkkkkkkeeeeeeeee
Upsilon
post Jun 9 2017, 10:03 PM

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QUOTE(stringfellow @ Jun 9 2017, 03:55 PM)
Take it as "virtual console" then. Or "emulation". The Switch is bursting at the seam with so much processing power, you seriously think emulating a 240p 3DS games is difficult?
*
Im sure the emulation community would welcome your expertise
Miracles
post Jun 9 2017, 11:20 PM

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QUOTE(LEO1989 @ Jun 8 2017, 05:11 PM)
exactly, they should have offer both platform for user, if people wan cheaper and only portable, they can choose 2ds/3ds
they wan more premium and console , they can go for switch

but the problem now is they wan milk more money on 3ds/2ds, thats why they restricted to up-res and port to switch. I doubt its the technical issue which not allow the games to be ported to switch.
*
It's all about the business man. No point of having similar games on 2 platforms. It's better to have a differentiation to market your new platform. Why would I spend money to get new platform to play the same damn game I had on 3ds? brows.gif

Re-releases like Mario Kart 8 and Splatoon (Wii U) to Switch are not bad. They are nice but re-releases are double-edged sword.


To quote someone from reddit;
QUOTE
3DS resolution is 240p. The Switch's resolution is 720p.
They just can't port the games without them looking horrible on the Switch's screen, they'll look even worse on TV - have you tried to see a FE:A gameplay video on HD in youtube? The figures look terrible!
Its easier to port from the Wii U because those are already HD graphics, I think most 3DS games would need remakes to look decent and that is far more expensive than merely porting. The games that have been ported from Wii U to 3DS are scaled down, and from my understanding, that is far easier than to upscale and make sure they look nice.
I don't think we'll se 3DS games as part of this gen's VC. And since they unified their dev teams into one single division, they shouldn't have problems pumping out hardware as to need to paddle the release schedule with 3DS ports.


It definitely matters.
stringfellow
post Jun 10 2017, 12:42 AM

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QUOTE(Upsilon @ Jun 9 2017, 10:03 PM)
Im sure the emulation community would welcome your expertise
*
They've already done that with Citra for the 3Ds. Don't need my expertise to do so. It's Nintendo whose tardy to the uptake, because they know the general populace of their console users tolerate their practices.

I'm sure Nintendo welcomes your "support" for two portable system instead of one.


QUOTE(Miracles @ Jun 9 2017, 11:20 PM)
It's all about the business man. No point of having similar games on 2 platforms. It's better to have a differentiation to market your new platform. Why would I spend money to get new platform to play the same damn game I had on 3ds?  brows.gif

Re-releases like Mario Kart 8 and Splatoon (Wii U) to Switch are not bad. They are nice but re-releases are double-edged sword.
To quote someone from reddit;
It definitely matters.
*
Not gonna repeat myself again. That Pokemon 3DS image I posted earlier is damning evidence that Nintendo downscaled their game's quality to fit the horrible 3DS hardware. Simply put, they develop the 3DS games at higher resolution and higher quality assets, downscale it to 240p (that's as high it as what the 3DS can do), and when the emulation community (as someone eloquently put it), dumped the 3DS games into ROM files and saw that they can up-res the game to higher resolution without losing image quality (just like when you blow up a photo), that's evidence enough that your 3DS games can run at higher resolution without compromising image quality. The same goes with Zelda BOTW WiiU. Even logic dictates that if game assets are made at 1080p quality (WiiU's max res), and blown up to 4K, you'd see horrible jagged edges, color compression and color banding, and exposing other flaws like geometric details, shoddy textures, etc. Have you see Zelda BOTW WiiU ROM running in 4K? I have. And it looks even better than the best WiiU games out there, including Xenoblades Chronicles X, Bayonetta 2, or MK8D. That points towards the in-game assets already made at image quality higher than what your display can resolve, coz if it is, blowing it up to 4K, to put it simply, will "make it look horrible" wouldn't it? It's both a testament to the quality of Nintendo's in-game development standards, BUT ALSO shows that they scale it down to whatever target resolution/quality based on the hardware the games are supposed to run. Removing the restraints of fixed specs hardware by running it on emulators (Citra and CEMU) shows how much more beautiful these 3DS and WiiU games can look, but it's held back by hardware limitations of the console/portable itself.

A properly supported and coded emulators like Citra and CEMU are not like those shoddy PPSSPP, ReiCast, PCSX2 or RetroArch, those are "barely good enough" effort, if you're skeptical, check out the latest CEMU 1.8 videos on YouTube running BOTW. These are running stock BOTW ROM with only 4K up-res toggle. Not some special sauce version of BOTW with higher texture assets.

Well before I had a Switch, I ran MK8 (non-Deluxe) ROM on the CEMU emulator at 4K, and my God, it was a sight to behold. This is simply an up-res version of a standard WiiU ROM dump of the game, and it's already looking beyond what the PS4 and XBONE games look like. Nintendo games are bespoke, handmade masterpieces, with timeless design and ageless quality to them (they dont age at all , even playing them after years apart, they still look gorgeous). After MK8D came out on the Switch, the up-res emulated version of MK8 on CEMU emulator is STILL the better looking MK8 out there, with the MK8D second and MK8 WiiU in last place.
stringfellow
post Jun 10 2017, 10:56 PM

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Switch dock clone now avalailable in China. http://www.g-cores.com/articles/25242

Yes, that hexagon dongle is all you need, instead of that huge dock.

user posted image

user posted image

So who's gonna be the guinea pig? tongue.gif
LEO1989
post Jun 10 2017, 11:02 PM

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QUOTE(stringfellow @ Jun 10 2017, 10:56 PM)
Switch dock clone now avalailable in China. http://www.g-cores.com/articles/25242

Yes, that hexagon dongle is all you need, instead of that huge dock.

user posted image

user posted image

So who's gonna be the guinea pig? tongue.gif
*
i wonder hows the price
LEO1989
post Jun 10 2017, 11:03 PM

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rmb388 hmm.gif
Superman7
post Jun 11 2017, 01:57 AM

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So you guys leave the switch connected to the power all the time?
I leave it charged all the time when it's at the dock. Basically overnight as well.
Superman7
post Jun 11 2017, 01:58 AM

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QUOTE(stringfellow @ Jun 10 2017, 10:56 PM)
Switch dock clone now avalailable in China. http://www.g-cores.com/articles/25242

Yes, that hexagon dongle is all you need, instead of that huge dock.

user posted image

user posted image

So who's gonna be the guinea pig? tongue.gif
*
What is it called?
chienpo2007
post Jun 11 2017, 01:57 PM

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hey any of you guys know which eshop region is the cheapest? i'd buy hard copy for big games but would prefer to spent less on 2d/sidescoller games.

This post has been edited by chienpo2007: Jun 11 2017, 01:58 PM
KoYuKii
post Jun 11 2017, 02:41 PM

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hi switchers, wanna check for 2nd hand switch price.

sumone offered a 2 months old grey swich with 2 games(zelda, 1 2 switch) plus other accs. include travel bag, rubber grip, 2 amibo for 1.9k.

is this price ok?

anything i need to look out for when dealing with 2nd hand switch?

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