variability..........that is what you are saying.........what i am saying is, why do we not cut down the variability, like countries like oz and uk.........by making sure all candidates accepted are the best from the pool...........

I do agree with limeuu's statement of variability.

Its the government's fault. Having their stupid quota for almost everything such as jobs/uni places/scholarships is really hindering the society and lowering the education standard.

Speaking from first hand experience, I see the medical education in Melbourne Uni largely based on meritocracy. There is no quotas for people of a certain race, there are only quotas for Australians, Internationals and Access places for students in rural areas. And, everyone has a near perfect score in their final year of high school/pre-uni, unlike some unis in Malaysia and other countries.

Ok, so overally, study in Indo good or not ? How's the requirement ya ?

define 'good'...

If it's like what you said, i think all medical schools in Malaysia are not good enough, both gov and private alike. No medical schools in Malaysia accept only students with near perfect score as far as i know.
Malaysia's education has indeed been screwed by our beloved gov.

Edited: Typo

This post has been edited by hypermax: Mar 23 2008, 01:14 PM

i am confused.......so they all accept students without near perfect scores........therefore they are good enough?......

Opps, typo.
From what i know of, example IMU, is willing to take in students with TER 90 for Sam (which is far from perfect score) for their local MBBS program.
Melaka-Manipal was even worse, took in students with TER less than 70 for the first few batches. The same applies for most other private medical colleges in Msia.
And in gov uni, there is backdoor entry through matrikulasi.

Im 4th year doing practical at Hospital Selayang. Im from UiTM. Hey, dont u have any ward round

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Added on March 23, 2008, 1:25 pmThere are studies proof that academic excellence does not promise or guarantee good student. Sometimes EQ is more important than IQ. Study has done at harvard n has found many student with good EQ despite bad IQ usu have better future n qualification . What's the ppoint of having inteliigence student despite not knowing how to handle emotion n social with person? Todays worls require more cooperation. To me, one inteligence is one potential whereas to control emotion n social is a skill

This post has been edited by seijiseimura84: Mar 23 2008, 01:25 PM

Semester break.
How's Selayang hospital? I heard it's a paperless hospital, true?

The most thing that i concern now, that is a lot of privatge medical student but yet did not have any accessability toward hospital. So how to practice

Couldn't agree more. If possible, pls post a link to one of the studies. Thanks.

Yes, every information lies at the computer. U also can check up ur previous patient n it is easy to check up at any time. However, there is one day, where the whole computer system is jam, in which a lot of operation n also proceudre or imaging has to be delayed

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Added on March 23, 2008, 1:31 pmCant comment more. I jsut recall from memories

This post has been edited by seijiseimura84: Mar 23 2008, 01:31 PM

of course, that is why they also conduct tests of personality and amplitude in the selection process......

the point remains, there are MORE than enough potential candidates with very high scores AND the right applitude (what you called eq)........so why choose from those with poor results?

in other words, the FIRST and FOREMOST criteria MUST be the intellectual ability....then from this group, choose the most suitable applitude wise.......

arguing that someone thought to have the 'eq' to be a good doctor can be one, in spite of poor academic records just doesn't cut it..........not in developed countries anyway.....but as can be seen, many here seems to support this reasoning.......that i suspect stems from the fact that there are indeed a lot of medical students in msia and other 3rd world countries, who would never have even been shortlisted in the developed world.....they are in because of connections, money, affirmative programmes.......etc......

these are facts.....

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Added on March 23, 2008, 1:47 pmter 90 would generally be considered the minimum cutoff.....

imu was 94 last year, 91 this year.......but apparently like monash as someone said in another thread, they will kick you out just like that if you don't make the cut.......last year's batch, 40 got kicked down (repeat 1st of 2nd sem) or out.......

This post has been edited by limeuu: Mar 23 2008, 01:47 PM

Yes, there shall be balance of EQ n IQ. However, it is not so easy to assess EQ compare to assess IQ because IQ can just simply take from how many score u have. However, not all those high grade does really have high IQ because u know a lot of us just do memorize more rather understanding. Still, i believe there shall be kuota for male n female. My batch was so many girl, that sometimes we have to listen them althought their idea is just simply rubbish. Majority win, huh..?

Entry requirement for IMU varies from year to year. My friend, who was 2 years older than me, was admitted into IMU local MBBS program with TER 87 only (back in 2002). Even if the entry score is TER94, it's still far from perfect or near-perfect score (compared to Melbourne U's 99), therefore according to you and zltan, those students shouldn't be doing medicine at all.

For your info, not only IMU kicks students, many other schools do the same thing too. Like in Melaka-Manipal, more than 50 were dropped down from my batch during first year itself.

This post has been edited by hypermax: Mar 23 2008, 02:48 PM

i think you really need to move away from the quota mentality......

you will be surprise how accurate and precise some of these validated applitude tests are.........they are commonly combined with tests of reasoning (what you called iq), in a random fashion, so the student does not know what he is tested on........

don't give excuses, all the tools to accurately select the best candidates are there, it is a matter of whether the uni/gov wants to do it or not........ie the political will.......

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Added on March 23, 2008, 3:04 pmdud, what do you think we are saying then?......

to be fair however, like i said, it has been shown than like many people here claims, you don't have to be a genius to do medicine.........the top 10% of a cohort should be able to do it well enough, that correspond to ter 90 and above, and indeed, that is the MINIMUM ter score to be considered for medicine and dentistry in oz........

Melbourne is unique in oz, as the one which rely purely on ter scores in selection, so most of the students actually have ter above 99.75........the other oz undergraduate med schools rely on a combination of applitude test scores (umat, isat pqa), interview, and ter......and generally, the vast majority of selected students will have a ter above 95...........

let me make my stand........i have NO issue with anyone with a ter score of 95 and above (or equivalent) doing medicine........that is at least 20,000 students in msia every year to choose from........there will be NO problem in finding the right candidates from that large group........agree?

This post has been edited by limeuu: Mar 23 2008, 03:04 PM

Hmm, how about those with TER90-94? do you have issues with them doing medicine?
The majority of my batch fall in this range, yet some of them are not doing as well as those who got TER85-89 (actual fact, not making up).
And I dun think TER95 translates into 20000 students in msia. May i know how you calculate this??

However, i do agree that medical students need to have good command of English, as it is the medium of instruction. By reading some of the posts here by students from various medical schools makes me

This post has been edited by hypermax: Mar 23 2008, 03:33 PM

Flipped a digit there hypermax?

Well, a line has to be drawn somewhere, so if not a TER of 95, where?

HUh?? what do you mean?
By the way, i think the cut off point of TER91 or 92 should be good enough. Of course, interview is a must.

This post has been edited by hypermax: Mar 23 2008, 04:06 PM

there are 400+k students per cohort .....the ter system is based purely on percentile ranking, NOT marks, so the top 5% will be 20K students plus..........these are the ones getting the straight a's in spm (what, more than 6k alone this year?) and those with mostly a's and a few b's........before anyone talk about NOT using spm again, this is the LAST common exams for msians, it doesn't matter what they do after, matrik, stpm, a levels whatever, the top 5% at spm will also produce the top 5% at the matriculation level in general........