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Life Sciences CALLING ALL MEDICAL STUDENTS!, medical student chat+info center

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haya
post Nov 30 2007, 02:26 PM

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QUOTE(ironboots @ Nov 26 2007, 09:55 PM)
o rly my mistake then. so what uni r u from? sound like IMU if u know so much about our pms program
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I suggest you use something called the internet, and find out information on your own, instead of thinking youre 1337 just because you know "o rly". Not all of us are even doing MBBS, but we know something called research, instead of waiting to be spoonfed like a typical Malaysian.

http://www.imu.edu.my/partner_medical.html
http://www.dundee.ac.uk/prospectus/undergr...fs/Medicine.pdf

No one below the top 1% should even consider Medicne.
haya
post Dec 14 2007, 10:59 AM

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QUOTE(wgy589 @ Dec 10 2007, 05:38 PM)
my skol is quite weird though, wif pharmacy under faculty of science, den skol of medicine n faculty of dentustry r separate.
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So is your English, may i add.

To be honest, does it matter which faculty/school is in under?
haya
post Feb 20 2008, 08:26 AM

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QUOTE(limeuu @ Feb 19 2008, 07:27 PM)
newcastle.........and a couple of lesser known/new ones.......

bond and jcu
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Wow, even JCU has a Medical faculty now?

I think these new universities are probably the only way one can get into a MBBS program through the undergrad pathway. Even Griffith is Post-grad!
haya
post Mar 23 2008, 03:32 PM

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QUOTE(hypermax @ Mar 23 2008, 03:27 PM)
Hmm, how about those with TER90-94? do you have issues with them doing medicine?  hmm.gif
The majority of my batch fall in this range, yet some of them are not doing as well as those who got TER85-89 (actual fact, not making up).
And I dun think TER95 translates into 20000 students in msia. May i know how you calculate this??
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Flipped a digit there hypermax?

Well, a line has to be drawn somewhere, so if not a TER of 95, where?
haya
post Mar 24 2008, 08:39 AM

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QUOTE(hypermax @ Mar 24 2008, 12:37 AM)
Dude, you talk like you dun know about medical education at all. Most well known medical schools have certain standards to be met. Therefore, failing rates are quite high for most well known medical schools (IMU, Melaka Manipal). There are also external examiners which serves as control of quality (well, this point is valid unless you wanna talk about political reasons again).

Btw, why dun you just answer my question straight, are you a medical student or doctor? Are you ashame of your school or yourself??

So now, you talk like you are a health director....hmmm
So who are you?? Medical student, doctor, or health director??
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I'll say this upfront: I'm not a medical student. But if you can't tell what Limeuu is from his postings, you really need to read more between the lines.

Still, I'll give him a hand this time:
QUOTE(limeuu @ Mar 24 2008, 12:29 AM)
aim of all this is to reduce variability to as low as possible.......this is NOT a trial and error experiment......" okay let's see, we shall take this group of students, see how they do.....oops, oh dear, we got a lot of bad ones, they just killed some patients.......bugger........." shakehead.gif

and to reduce wastage........every student kicked out is a waste of time, money, and more importantly, waste of a place and a potential doctor for the country.....

if you ever become a manager/planner for a country's health service, you will know what i mean.....


Added on March 24, 2008, 12:31 amisn't it painfully obvious from my comments?
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haya
post Mar 24 2008, 07:02 PM

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Based on your own admission that:

QUOTE(hypermax @ Mar 24 2008, 10:18 AM)
Anyone can be a master at anything just by gathering info from the net. Therefore, i prefer to get a confirmation from him. Btw, i do get the "hint" from his post, but i just want confirmation like "i am a doctor working as planner for health service in XXXX". Statement like this carries more weight than the statement in bold below.

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Does it make a difference if Limeuu says that he is Dr A. Orang, the Assoc. Prof. of UMMC when in fact, he might be just the person in your neighbourhood selling Digi reload cards? Personally, he could be the the neighbourhood handphone shop owner for all I care. Agree or disagree with him, he has some very valid points, regardless if he is a doctor or not.

That said, I find it hard to understand why you can't tell what Limeuu is. Are you so poor in reading things in context that you must have someone come up to you and tell you in your face?

QUOTE(hypermax @ Mar 24 2008, 10:18 AM)
Besides, this is a totally different scenario from seeing patients. Patients usually dun lie, but forummers, on the other hand, can lie about anything they want. Also, you can tell whether a patient is telling lies by looking at his/her facial expression. And all i see in this forum are words and emocons.  wink.gif
Believe me hypermax, in the real world patients will rarely give you the right information.



haya
post Apr 24 2008, 08:45 AM

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QUOTE(lagrima @ Apr 24 2008, 06:55 AM)
well there's griffith as well. bond does it with more semesters in a year, unlike other unis that have crazy 2 or 3 month breaks we get about 3 weeks in between sems. i finished a previous degree, incl. honours, in 3 yrs. contrary to popular belief, it doesnt feel that hectic or intensive at all.

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Griffith's MBBS is post grad also.
haya
post Apr 25 2008, 01:01 PM

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QUOTE(lagrima @ Apr 24 2008, 02:08 PM)
Yup my bad, it's postgrad, but it's got provisional entry or something of the sort for school leavers.
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Only for domestic Australian students, unlike UQ's MBBS where at least about 50 places for provisional Year 12 entry are avaliable for international students.
haya
post Apr 27 2008, 11:20 AM

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QUOTE(Glyyde @ Apr 25 2008, 07:04 PM)
aw.... u just broke her heart
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Get used to it. Doctors are no known for sugar coating anything. They will give it to you, straight and narrow.
haya
post Jun 12 2008, 09:48 AM

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QUOTE(culexbite @ Jun 12 2008, 03:39 AM)
others ( unknown, sorry  doh.gif  )
limeu
haya
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culexbite, thank you for compling a nice list of medical students here. But I'm quite confident that I said that I am not a medical student. Great job through. biggrin.gif

QUOTE(limeuu @ Jun 11 2008, 07:25 PM)
QUOTE(jasperseng @ Jun 11 2008, 06:11 PM)

if u said it is wasteful... den it is being waste by the student himself... the student are not hardworking enough...that is why the school expel them.

my uni believe that doctors need not to be smart
... but hardworking...
so if u not smart enought... i mean not all As in STPM they also accept u..
but minimum requirement is all B la...

yo my school dont pass people easily u kno... if u have attitude problem, they also will expel u...
if u dont perform well in ur presantation... the lecturer will remember that... and u probably in the "to be expel" list...
so it is not easy being in the medical school...
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i am having serious doubts about this med school........where did you say you are studying again?.....

FIRST AND FOREMOST criteria for selection into med school, in any well managed future doctor training system (ie usually public funded med schools eg uk, oz) is that the candidate MUST be smart......certainly in the top 5% of the cohort........there are no shortage of these students.......top 5% of a msian cohort (150k or so) is 7500 students.......even if say 80% have no interest in medicine or arts stream, that is still 1500 students to choose from........no need to look at those with BBB, which will be in the 85% percentile (ie top 15%).........
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jasperseng claims to be from UCSI. Excuse my ignorance, but what is the difference between a MBBS and a MD that UCSI offers?

Through it worries me that UCSI is not in the First nor Second Schedule of the Medical Act 1971, while IMU, Manipal, AIMST, even Perak College of Medicine (we have that?!) is on the list.

Note however, a listing in the Medical Act is not a indicator of the quality of the medical school. Interestingly, we'll even recognise gradutes from University of Khartoum, University of Basrah, Dhaka Medical College, amongst others!

Anyone up for applying for the MBBS of Baghdad University? shocking.gif

References: http://www.agc.gov.my/agc/oth/Akta/Vol.%201/Act%2050.pdf
haya
post Oct 16 2008, 02:21 PM

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QUOTE(diegoadriadona @ Oct 16 2008, 01:54 PM)
the problem i can't adapt to life in moscow..lolz...nvm..if it has to be this way..then that's they way it is..i can't really do anything anymore..i can't make decisions..parents are always rite..aren't they???
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I wish.

But let me just say this: they are the ones paying for it, and while Russia is cheap, studying there is by no means is a small sum. At the end of the day, we are at their tender mercies.
haya
post Jan 8 2009, 07:49 AM

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QUOTE(StarGhazzer @ Jan 7 2009, 03:35 PM)
First of all, it's interesting for me to read that you're a Singaporean studying in M'sia. I come from JB so it's more common for me to know Johoreans crossing the causeway daily to study rather than the other way round. tongue.gif
It is a bit more common than what most people thinks. Let me make this clear: no one comes to Malaysia actually study. It is always a backdoor by 3rd world countries to the western world. I have met Mainland Chinese who went to Inti, Namibians (?) who did a Diploma in Taylors, before coming to Australia/NZ.

And take a look at the number of Singaporeans in IMU. The fact still remains, these are the people who did not, or could not have, got direct entry into the medical university of their choice.

haya
post Jan 15 2009, 07:04 PM

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QUOTE(Optiplex330 @ Jan 15 2009, 03:34 PM)
IMU+Twinning with RECOGNIZED UK/Aust uni. Yes because Clinical year done in UK/Aust.
(Note: Not all UK/AUST uni are recognized)
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IMU is an interesting case as you actually get your degree from the institution you twin to. There would be no record of your 2.5 years in IMU. For all practical intents and purposes, the IMU twinning program ends with NOT a IMU qualification.
haya
post Jan 29 2009, 10:20 AM

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QUOTE(Yeyechan @ Jan 29 2009, 01:22 AM)
r u in the debating team or wat???
it seems that u are quite interested to fish something out of other ppls word de wor.....
then wat makes u think u r the "one of us" that i was refering to?
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Regardless of qualification, regardless of medical school, entrance into any medical school should NOT be "easy". Taiwanese universities has no obligation to Malaysian students. If you really know how things work there you should be grateful they take in International students to start of with.

And not everyone who reads between the lines was in the debating team. I know it is hard to believe, but there are people out there who can actually do critical thinking.

Bugger, I forgot sarcasm does not work for many Malaysians.
haya
post Feb 2 2009, 10:54 AM

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QUOTE(limeuu @ Feb 1 2009, 08:12 PM)
anybody still in doubt that there are differences in the standards and competency of doctors graduating from different medical schools?.......

and why many 3rd world med schools cannot be recognised by the 1st world countries......?

btw, anyone saw the midnight news on tv last night?......15% of housemans are deemed incompetent, and had to be retained, some for several years.....

something those of us in the profession have known a long time........

msia recognises more than 300 medical schools all over the world, and they are 'trying to identify where these doctors come from and ask these medical schools to buck up'......... biggrin.gif

amazing but true........any other country would just de-recognise these med schools.....
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While there is an article in the NST on that matter, it seems to be down for me. However, the Singapore Straits Times does a good job in describing the issue:

QUOTE
Housemen lack proper skills

KUALA LUMPUR - THE Malaysian Medical Council (MMC) and Health Ministry want substandard medical universities to buck up, after many housemen turn up at hospitals unable to carry out common medical procedures.

Besides not having proper clinical exposure, the housemen were also found unable to communicate effectively and take down the history of patients properly for diagnosis and treatment, reported New Straits Times.

Each year, Malaysia's medical fraternity sees 1,200 new doctors from local and overseas institutions. The MMC recognises the medical degrees awarded by more than 300 institutions around the world.

The new doctors must serve a two-year housemanship period. But senior medical consultants complain that many of these housemen could not meet the standards and have to be retained in their training for up to six years.

Kuala Lumpur Hospital's Medical Department head, Datuk Dr Jeyaindran Sinnadurai, who handles about 140 housemen a year, noticed that at least 15 per cent of them do not have enough experience to take down the medical history of patients.

He also expressed great concern that some housemen were unable to perform common procedures such as drawing blood for a blood test, setting up an intravenous line and inserting a chest tube.

As a result, many of the housemen had to be retained for their training 'in order to ensure the standard of medical practice is maintained in this country for the safety of our patients', added Dr Jeyaindran.

The MMC has ordered government hospitals, which train the housemen, to record the university they graduated from, besides their performance and shortcomings.

The council and the Health Ministry aims to nail down the substandard medical universities by the end of the year.

On his part, Dr Jeyaindran has come up with a syllabus, listing the core knowledge and experience that a houseman must acquire before he leaves for his next posting.

'A houseman who comes in for training should be able to manage hypertension, asthma, diabetes and common medical emergencies appropriately, based on current clinical practice guidelines, besides acquiring adequate generic skills,' Dr Jeyaindran said.

But, he noted some were never taught this properly during their years in medical school.

"Medicine is not black and white but lots of grey in between, and in order to identify the grey areas, the only way is 'the more you see, the more you do, the more you understand',' he added.


So 15% of 1200 is 180. So potentially we have about 200 potential Dr Death's walking the wards of government hospitals every year. And if nothing is done, their numbers is only going to go up.

According to Medical Act 1971(warning: 2MB PDF file), up to 1 Jan 2006, 253 foreign medical schools are listed. Even throwing in Malaysian IPTA and IPTS'es who have a medical school , excluding those designated as "UNSCHEDULED UNIVERSITIES AND COLLEGES", only bumps it up to 280, so unless I'm missing something I'm not sure how Malaysia/MMC recognises "medical degrees awarded by more than 300 institutions around the world".

I think people should start reaslising that they are not doctor material. I did, despite half my genetic makeup coming from a doctor and more than a few of my family being doctors. I respect them. When people ask me why I did not follow my father's footsteps, I simply reply "I'm not smart enough".

And move on from there. A MBBS is not the only end. Esepcially when doing basic research seems to be out of the grasp of many Lowyat.net members.

This post has been edited by haya: Feb 2 2009, 10:57 AM
haya
post Feb 3 2009, 08:08 AM

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QUOTE(MBBS siang @ Feb 2 2009, 03:00 PM)
Really  disappointed!!! what happen? "Doctor"..come on!!!!Malaysia buck up....buck up!!!stop producing any stupid fellow again!!! Haiz.....!!! We need change.....
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Maybe we can change the mentality of some people, and make them realise that they are not cut out for medical school instead?

Or how about the whole system where many people, including some people in this forum, try to get around the system at all costs to get into an MBBS program?

The people are as much as fault as the political interests of the government.
haya
post Feb 3 2009, 01:11 PM

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QUOTE(MBBS siang @ Feb 3 2009, 10:23 AM)
hihi!!!forgive my stupid english!!!I will try very hard to improve it!!!!
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While you're at it, learn something called paragraphing. I know it is absent in Mandarin, but the excessive use of punctuation is not in Mandarin.

As for your other points, it has been discussed in this and other threads so many times, its no longer funny. Your ideals:
QUOTE
1. We need a fair ,systematic and consistent selection of admission of medical school(no political power involve,no consideration of skin,no priority to the rich)

2. We need the medical council which is really work...!!!!De-recognize the substandard medical school!!! strictly make sure the quality of med school is good!!!

3.Stop producing rubbish but doctor!!!

4.Who want to be a doctor should know don't because your result is good so must become a doctor , don't because it is a high pay or stable job so you choose it as your career and don't think the title 'DR' means god and with higher social status then want to be 'DR'!!!!

while nice, are not realistic in the Malaysian context. I still fall over in laughter when I read of UTAR's plan to have their own medical school。
haya
post Feb 8 2009, 12:58 PM

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QUOTE(ShaneNg @ Feb 8 2009, 12:01 PM)
Guys, Recently rumors of Insufficient seats for Doctors or even Freshman are flying...

If I'm not mistaken, Sin Chew once Published a headline which states that on the year of 201x(I don't remember what the digit is) The quantity of Doctors exceeds the requirements by 8000 people.

Is it true or is it serious?

I know that first thing that comes to the doctor's life is the competence, but you don't invest 350K into a course and complete it, then cant even get a freshman position, do you?
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The only thing I could find was a article from 17 Dec 2008 on that: http://www.sinchew.com.my/node/94772. It quotes MMA Medical Education Committee Chairman (大马医药协会医药教育委员会主席) DR N ATHIMULAM. Now my Mandarin isn't what it used to be, so I apologise for any mistakes that happen.

Some interesting facts from the article for those who do not read Mandarin:
1)By 2015 Malaysia would have a glut of 7539 doctors.

2)As late as 2012 Malaysia would have a shortage of 2891 doctors, but in 2013, the tide will turn when the current batch of medical students start graduating.

3)Up to 2007, Malaysia had 18284 doctors (1万8284名医生) in both the public and private medical sectors. Breakdown: 7439 Malay's(41%)、Chinese 4780 (26%),Indians 3426 (19%), dan lain-lain 2639(14%).

4)2300 people entered the medical profession in 2008.

5)In 1957 there was one doctor for 8229 people. 2007 the ratio was 1 to 1145,and by 2020 it is predicted to be one to 413. (Whoa!)

I think the best line in the article is this: 因此有意攻读医科的学生必须做好应对压力的心理准备。 (Medical students should be prepared for more competitive times.)
haya
post Feb 13 2009, 12:17 PM

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QUOTE(MBBS siang @ Feb 13 2009, 11:46 AM)
No need to worry,if you go to developed country(you love the much) in future.No one will do any dangerous things to you,if you choose to migrate from malaysia(3rd world country).Don't you think so?
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Not everyone is like you MBBS siang, and the millions of ethnic Chinese, who are the first to jump the boat at the first hint of it sinking. Some people may think the whole "You tak suka, you keluar" mentality is normal, but it is not.

It is fine if you want to play Russian roulette with health care. But I don't. Yet I will be treated by the same health care system as you promote: reckless production of doctors just because you want to be a doctor when you are not cut out for one.

And don't think for one second that it is safe in what you call "developed country". Check out Jayant Patel. The only difference is, at least there is a attempt to resolve the problem, while in Malaysia you all just hide under the banner of passion and "I will do my best".
haya
post Feb 13 2009, 04:41 PM

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QUOTE(MBBS siang @ Feb 13 2009, 12:44 PM)
If you don't have the ability to change this condition,so the best solution is to run away from here.But not keep on reminding and reminding "malaysia is bad","lousy health care" and keep on look down on who graduate from non-reputable uni.That is unfair to some! Not mean a good doctor must graduate from famous medical school but those graduate from 3rd world country like russia,indonesia should be an incompetent doctor or substandard medical student.If you are rich better leave the 3rd world country,if you are not confident in health care of 3rd world country.If you are not and need a "real doctor",you deserve the right to choose ,but not keep on look down on others who are graduate from non-reputable uni but maybe competent.As a patient they know which doctor is suit to them but not only depend on academic background.Sorry,this is what I think!
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You probably don';t think, seeing you have still not understood the basics of paragraphing.

Ever considered that your "lousy health care" is due to the lax admission policies for local medical schools and foreign graduates? So let me get this straight: you, unable to get into and afford into a reputable medical school with some standard, decide to perpetuate the problem by thinking of entering "3rd world country like russia,indonesia", with lax admission policies, just so you can fulfill your (and presumably your parents) dreams of being a doctor.

And of course, you still hide under the banner of "not all doctors from 3rd world medical schools are Dr Death". "Choose a doctor"? What do you think this is: a supermarket? Please, get rid of your sifu mentality.

"A nation who wants to move forward needs a well educated workforce, not just a brilliant few". LKY

If I were to paraphrase, A nation who wants to have a competent health care system needs a network of well educated medical specialists, not just a brilliant few. In many parts of the world, you don't need to choose doctors. In certain circumstances you can't choose doctors.

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