this was for which bank?

I remember last year I placed CIMB Tia, was promised 2.6% for 12m, but in the end only took back 2.45% upon maturity. Was wondering if I could complain to the bank. Substantial difference there. Officer said Tia , rate subject to change. Maybe she doesnt wanna do extra work for me. Can anyone advise?

My case is with HLB

was it same case whereby the interest rate was higher on cert but given a lower rate during maturity ?

Did yours add up to be the supposed profits/interest ?

I have another HL TIAi matured today. On 23rd also one. Both I calculated the profits to be correct to the cents.

But I saw on 27th, in online SA

27-Aug-2021 Cash Back Crediting - SA TIAi Profit 0.74

Small amt due to just about 10k only.

Wondering what is that ? Anyway not going to burn my brain cells for it.

This post has been edited by bbgoat: Aug 28 2021, 11:09 AM

Yes, but TIA profit is really estimated, so, it is good that HLB honoured as per what they estimated..

Yes, I check the interest crediting is the variance of the interest (out by 1 cent) which my placement mature on 18 Aug, if you’ve the TIA placement mature on 18 Aug, I guess it is the same adjustment (as claimed is due to system error), maybe like Dealhunter said, they might have revised the rate on that day but suddenly u turn (which screw up their system).

For my case, based on my calculation, what I get is correct. Anyway I did notice that HL has been changing the TIAi rate up/down by about 0.05%. My Feb 23 placement 6 mth is 2.45%, Feb 28 placement for 6 mth is 2.40%.

Well, no complain as they sent the extra RM0.74

27-Aug-2021 Cash Back Crediting - SA TIAi Profit 0.74

The advertised promo period for that p0m6 at 2.45 % was 11 to 26 February 2021 for Chinese New Year..
February 28 would have gone back down to p0m6 at 2.40% after the promo.

Present TIA-i promos from 1 August 2021 to 30 September 2021 are at:-

2.40 % for 3 months
2.45 % for 6 months
2.50 % for 12 months

The good thing about the HL TIA-i is that it advantageous to those with less money as the minimum placement is only RM 500 and not RM 10,000. This is a big advantage for those starting with smaller available principal, and for spreading out smaller placements as cashflow become available instead of losing better interest opportunity by waiting to accumulate a big minimum amount.

For example,
Principal = RM 3,000
IBD 181 days
Rounding method rdns (round down nearest sen)
Wrong Rate at 2.40 % yield profit 35.7041... rdns 35.70.
Corrected Rate at at 2.45 % yield profit 36.4479...rdns 36.44.
Correction adjustment = 36.44 - 35.70 = 0.74.

As you also place with Bank Rakyat, do not be confused as Bank Rakyat uses different rounding method.
There are other differences between different banks that can be sizable instead of 1 sen off rounding method difference.

In the case of HL, I am not so scared as the TIA-i are used for making usual low risk loans and not riskier investments. As long as they vet their borrowers and set their terms properly, HL should be able to make the required profits from their loans. In the end, it is a matter of perception/judgement by customers whether the particular bank has good business sense and the people in it are well managed to uphold good ethics.

This post has been edited by Deal Hunter: Aug 28 2021, 06:53 PM

As mentioned in my earlier posts on the interest calculation by HL, there is no out by 1 cent, because the rounding method is round down to nearest sen and not the usual calculator setting to round to nearest sen. This is also called truncation or discarding the digits following after the cent. I noticed that UOB is one bank that states this.

Some banking calculations could possibly be a result of old manual pen and paper, abacus and calculator limitations and doubts. Few programmers do it from scratch for an ideal but are shackled by the pre-cheap and powerful computer past hence giving rise to dubious calculations and methods to be in line with their past. So mostly stuck with legacy methods and calculated results/algorithms that are not quite right. Just imagine what a programmer would have to do to make a long term or periodic payment FD have to do to jive with past payments!

There was a general misconception/unfounded assumption that rounding to the nearest sen would over the long term and in sufficient large numbers was somehow random and in the end it will all be as it should be. But actually in the real world, the placement and savings are not really random but certain nice numbers and rates are fixed. With the existence of computers and ability to analyse large amounts of data and payments, you can even check your past payments and even build scenarios for long term periodic payment FD. If you ever tried, you will know first hand that things do not have a happy neat or tiny difference ending as usually thought/taught.

Of course in the past, payments were very simple and on maturity date and so the problems of periodic or step FD payments never was a consideration and now solved differently recently without any standard method by various banks. Same story like different SOP with different Islamic products. Each bank cook up their own style because new, different or first time!

One practical and advantageous result of this kind of applied scenario research is the use of optimum principals and their corollary, distorted principals with pre-adjustments for payment dates, and the capability to pre-calculate the payments due in advance for cashflow planning/future placements.

There are various steps involved in the process flow when a FD or TIA is placed. The front placement and receipt parts may be OK, but the back part may be still under development/not yet adjusted as due 6 months later! For eFD and TIA-i, it might be a good practice if you check what actually shows up in the website in the FD or Investment accounts if fear OPR effects at some banks, and in case the programming was never completed fully for some reason (good excuse -Covid).

In the case of Islamic placements, there are buyback amounts mentioned. It is best if you already pre-calculated the amount to check whether what you think is what actually happens. With legacy systems still with using leap year as in MBSB and Maybank, you need to know what happens when you place before and going into a leap year and after! For instance at MBSB then, the programming for the placement and the buyback amount was only able to calculate at a flat 366 divisor rate instead of calculating at both 366 and 356 divisor rates. Obviously the computer program was nowhere as advanced and simple as using a spreadsheet to calculate the exact payments and amount. It used to be said that good programmers are born and not taught.

This post has been edited by Deal Hunter: Aug 28 2021, 09:13 PM

U hit a jackpot !! How did u end up using 3k as an example, as if u know that it is 3k TIAi ??

27-Aug-2021 Cash Back Crediting - SA
TIAi Profit
0.74

23-Aug-2021 IA-i Profit
00000000178xx
122.20

23-Aug-2021 Principal Transfer In
00000000178xx
10,058.00

12-Aug-2021 IA-i Profit
00000000178xx
35.70

12-Aug-2021 Principal Transfer In
00000000178xx
3,000.00

I checked my HL Connect online, so the one causing the mistake is the 3k one on Aug 12, as in your example !!! It was supposed to be 6 mth 2.45% but they gave 2.40%. Looks like they recalculated after complain from the public.

My 23rd Aug matured one is correct, so is the 28th one (not shown in above).

So it is the Aug 12th one which is supposed to be the one causing the HL cash back crediting of 0.74. I did not calculate the 3k profit as thinking just a small amount only.

Anyway, I don't think I am confused with HL or BR interest/profit calculation.

This post has been edited by bbgoat: Aug 29 2021, 02:35 PM

My another placement at same amount and same rate get the exact interest without missing the 1 sen

If you are not familiar with rounddown function in spreadsheet or forgotten what it means when doing manually, there are cheap calculators where can push a slider selector for UP for roundup, 5/4 for to nearest, and CUT for cut off the rest ie round down or truncate with another slider to set number of decimal places or full display of number of digits the calculator display can do. Usually I prefer to use a PC or laptop spreadsheet as can show many choices and scenarios and show where deviations or mistakes in input or calculation methods when calculating for different banks, far beyond the steps allowed in some calculators. For HL TIA, we would select the CUT and 2 decimal places to give the correct answer when using a calculator.

This post has been edited by Deal Hunter: Aug 29 2021, 07:08 PM

Of course I did not know the principal was RM 3,000. After all, I am not working in HL Bank nor do I have secret access to your records or devices.
The problem is simply to calculate what is the principal if the rate difference is 0.05 % and the interest difference is RM 0.74 for 181 IBD.

Of course one could try to solve this using ordinary algebra, but I did not even try the algebra because I knew that it would give me the wrong answer because of the rounding.

I just used a spreadsheet I made to find the difference in previous case. Starting with 10k which I knew offhand is impossible from previous posters case, and then can easily guess that I should put 3000 at the principal input for the 2 different interests to give a difference of 0.74. It helped that I already knew from my placements that HL TIA did not have the usual 10 k minimum for promo.

For info, if had tried the algebra, it would be

I=PRT
P=I/RT
where I = 0.74, R =0.05/100, T= 181/365
P = 2,984.53038... which is not RM 3,000
That is a fail and demonstrates the difference between school algebra and what real world rounding and IBD can do in these financial calculations. A pass is exactly correct, no such thing as off.

This post has been edited by Deal Hunter: Aug 29 2021, 06:57 PM

I did not think of my Aug 12 TIAi as the cashback was given on Aug 27 and there is one matured on Aug 23rd.

Anyway hats off to u on this. I didn't even remember the 3k until I checked my Excel spreadsheet.

Your post was useful as it showed that HL problem already was there on the 2nd day of the promo on 12 Feb 2021. This confirms that I had made the mistake of assuming that HL revised down later in the promo possibly due to some reason like OPR rates fear. I had failed to realise that the HL bank system for the TIA promo could simply fail although having personal experiences in failures of programmers when making programs or systems or applying the wrong versions.

This post has been edited by Deal Hunter: Aug 29 2021, 07:23 PM

TIA and FD, are they the same thing? Is TIA earns a higher rate of interest?
I thought this forum was purely for FD discussion but most of the recent posts was related to TIA.

Term Investment Account - i

read the features, faq, t&c, disclaimer, etc

Some people do not know that this is a FD thread

TIA should be posted in investment page

I am having "True Savers Account" with AM Bank.

I have the following question:
1. Am I consider "Individual Customer" as customer type, and hence, 2.75%
2. So I go to branch and open RM 8,000 as FD/TD-i at 2.75% 9 months, and keep RM 2,000 in my "True Saver Account"?

Yes to both questions

Seeking for any FD expert here to answer my curiosity.
Given if I put a 6months FD on this 3 days (29/08/2021, 30/08/2021 & 31/02/2021), when will be the maturity date, 28/02/2022, 01/03/2022 or other date?