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> MPSJ CCC

weikee
post Mar 31 2017, 11:59 AM

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QUOTE(HeartRoxas @ Mar 31 2017, 11:37 AM)
Then is there any CCC or approvals needed? How much generally drawing cost if it's only one face of the house (the back)?
*
I don't know on your side, maybe some can get it cheaper than other. Mine need about 5k
aeiou228
post Mar 31 2017, 12:11 PM

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QUOTE(HeartRoxas @ Mar 31 2017, 11:12 AM)
You seem to be very well-informed so I'll try my luck here.

If I need to only change a wall design, but without any extension, is there any kind of plans drawing or approvals needed?

The renovation will definitely change what it looks like from the SNP architect drawing, but no extensions whatsoever, just change the "design" of the wall, patching up some big grills into windows.
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Whatever invole structural reconstruction, you need to get a new ccc. I can't read your mind about how you going to change the wall design. Better you sketch a before and after plan here.
Another thing to consider is the cost of new ccc is not must different for minor or major renovation. You might as well submit a more comprehensive drawing plan and do a major renovation once and for all. Just don't end up with your cost of ccc is 50% of the cost of a minor renovation.
HeartRoxas
post Mar 31 2017, 01:27 PM

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QUOTE(aeiou228 @ Mar 31 2017, 12:11 PM)
Whatever invole structural reconstruction, you need to get a new ccc. I can't read your mind about how you going to change the wall design. Better you sketch a before and after plan here.
Another thing to consider is the cost of new ccc is not must different for minor or major renovation. You might as well submit a more comprehensive drawing plan and do a major renovation once and for all.  Just don't end up with your cost of ccc is 50% of the cost of a minor renovation.
*
Got it, thanks. Problem is I don't plan on doing any major structural renovation except for just that change in the back wall. So definitely the ccc will still be too much for me no matter how i see it. Since internally nothing is going to change as well except furnishing.
cheetooh
post Apr 2 2017, 12:27 AM

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I am wondering what is the total cost for the MPSJ CCC. Any idea?
shuiyu38
post Apr 28 2017, 10:27 PM

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mpsj approves the plan, while ccc issued by architect?
shuiyu38
post Apr 29 2017, 01:58 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Mar 31 2017, 11:59 AM)
I don't know on your side, maybe some can get it cheaper than other. Mine need about 5k
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Hi bro, did mpsj officers come check your house before architect issued ccc?
weikee
post Apr 29 2017, 05:38 PM

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QUOTE(shuiyu38 @ Apr 29 2017, 01:58 PM)
Hi bro, did mpsj officers come check your house before architect issued ccc?
*
According to the person i am engaging, yes they will come over. Mine yet to submit.
BenKhong1
post Apr 29 2017, 11:10 PM

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QUOTE(aeiou228 @ Dec 26 2016, 05:43 PM)
Mine was RM3.5k all in including CCC (RM1.5k). Your fee is reasonable.
Your neighbors are just ringgit wise and dollar foolish, tidak apa attitude and ill informed. They will regret it later when they need that piece of paper for whatever reasons in the future.  Nowadays, systems and procedures can not cincai cincai like the old days, even if things can gaotim also, they would have to fork out more money than what they would have paying now.

Btw, did you inform them there is a whitening offers by MPSJ right now ?
*
Can share your Arkitect contact?
2387581
post May 12 2017, 11:18 AM

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I am working in the profession, and I feel compelled to reply to this, although this might be a little late for some, but still.
In addition to the info aeiou228 has shared, I would like to add.
Many people like to think the existence of architects and other professions within the building construction industry are to get money out of your pocket.
What they don't understand is that these laws pertaining to the built environment, are meant more to protect interest of the public by regulating what can be done and what cannot be done.
What they can't see is the value behind the price tag. An architect's certification is basically, in layman terms, a lifetime guarantee of health and safety to the building you are occupying, at least that is true in Malaysia.
It is sometime puzzling to us within the profession why someone can spend thousands to get a designer bag, yet wouldn't want to remunerate the professional who is responsible for the health and safety of your house. (Let's not even talk about the infamous bad debt in the construction industry)
Typically, for a renovation done without applying for permit, in any case when you need to present your CCC, and you can't, then that is the beginning of another long process.
For information and education purposes, see below for the CCC process.
These are all stipulated in the Street, Drainage and Building Act 1974 (Act 133) and Uniform Building By-Laws 1984

See the Lembaga Arkitek Malaysia's Circular No. 1/2008 on CCC which outlines the process of delivering building construction permit up to issuance of CCC
http://www.lam.gov.my/index.php/circulars/...s.html?start=10

There are 21 Forms (Borang G1-G21) to be completed for any new projects.
QUOTE
FORM G 1 Stage Certification : Earthworks
FORM G 2 Stage Certification : Setting Out
FORM G 3 Stage Certification : Foundations
FORM G 4 Stage Certification : Structural
FORM G 5 Stage Certification : Internal Water Plumbing
FORM G 6 Stage Certification : Internal Sanitary Plumbing
FORM G 7 Stage Certification : Internal Electrical
FORM G 8 Stage Certification : Fire-Fighting (Passive)
FORM G 9 Stage Certification : Fire-Fighting (Active)
FORM G 10 Stage Certification : Mechanical Ventilation
FORM G 11 Stage Certification : Lift/Escalator Installation
FORM G 12 Stage Certification : Building
FORM G 13 Stage Certification : External Water Supply System
FORM G 14 Stage Certification : Sewerage Reticulation
FORM G 15 Stage Certification : Sewerage Treatment Plant
FORM G 16 Stage Certification : External Electrical Supply System
FORM G 17 Stage Certification : Road and Drain
FORM G 18 Stage Certification : Street Lighting
FORM G 19 Stage Certification : External Main Drain
FORM G 20 Stage Certification : Telecommunication
FORM G 21 Stage Certification : Landscape

For renovation projects however, only the involved parts needs to be filled in, likely but not limited to Form G4-G7 and G12, depending on the scope of your projects. Other than that, the PSP will certify that the particular forms are not related, but still need to submit.
These forms are designed to suit any scale of projects, from kitchen renovation to 100 storey mega structures, the forms are the same.
It is a process involving professional consultant's certification, invitation and arrangement of the relevant technical departments (internal for example Jabatan Kawalan Bangunan, Jabatan Kejuruteraan, Jabatan Pengairan dan Saliran, etc.; external for example Bomba, TNB, IWK, Syabas, etc.) to do inspection.
For most homeowners who cannot comprehend why you think the cost of engaging an architect to produce the CCC is high, there are so many background works that you couldn't even imagine how complicated and sometimes difficult to deal with, the long hours involved, as well as the long time frame to make things happen, this is it.

QUOTE
According to Street, Drainage and Building Act 1974 (Act 133),

Section 3 Interpretation
"certificate of completion and compliance " means the certificate given or granted under any by-laws made under this Act;

"principal submitting person" means a qualified person who submits building plans to the local authority for approval in accordance with this Act or any by-laws made thereunder and includes any other qualified person who takes over the duties and responsibilities of or acts for the first mentioned qualified person;

Section 70 Notice of new buildings
(1) No person shall erect any building without the prior written permission of the local authority.
(2) Any person who intends to erect any building shall cause to be submitted by a principal submitting person or submitting person-

Refer to the following website for complete version of SDBA 1974 https://www.hba.org.my/laws/street/partV.htm



QUOTE(alchmiya @ Jan 18 2017, 10:14 AM)
To reapply CCC, I just need to go to some MPSJ approved architect?
*
QUOTE(monchi @ Mar 7 2017, 11:52 AM)
Hi, Anyone can recommend me any good Panel architect for MPSJ? i would like to get their service for the illegal extension application submission as now MPSJ extend until August 2017. thanks
*
This is a misconception regarding "an authority approved architect" or "panel architect".
There is no laws permitting this, as any architect registered with Lembaga Arkitek Malaysia (LAM) is qualified to submit plans to any local authority within Peninsular Malaysia.
If you need to find any architect, you can refer to the LAM website, they have a database of registered architect with contact details.
A good tip to any person approaching an architect, it is good to request the architect to present their LAM registration certificate, and get their LAM registration number.
You can then look up from the website, or even call LAM to check up on a certain architect to make sure they are registered.
Link to LAM database: http://portal.lam.gov.my/website_member_list.php?gtype=pa
This is because architecture as a profession is highly regulated in Malaysia, if any architect are doing any sketchy thing, you can complain/report to LAM and there will be actions taken.
More details you can refer to Architect's Act 1967 (Act 117) at http://www.lam.gov.my/index.php/act-rules.html

QUOTE(aeiou228 @ Mar 31 2017, 12:11 PM)
Whatever invole structural reconstruction, you need to get a new ccc. I can't read your mind about how you going to change the wall design. Better you sketch a before and after plan here.
Another thing to consider is the cost of new ccc is not must different for minor or major renovation. You might as well submit a more comprehensive drawing plan and do a major renovation once and for all.  Just don't end up with your cost of ccc is 50% of the cost of a minor renovation.
*
According to the law, any type of building works needs to obtain CCC. For projects involving structural (re)construction, the owner will need to engage a structural engineer to do their relevant plan submission to the local authority to get approval. But for any project, there is only 1 CCC. The approvals/permits obtained by engineers will form as part of the CCC.
For example, concerning the structural parts of the project only, the main contractor and the structural engineer will need to sign Borang G4. See example below
Attached Image
As you can see, this form is only valid if your contractor is registered with CIDB. Please make sure your contractor is registered with CIDB before engaging them to do your building works.
Ask them to produce to you a copy of their CIDB registration certificate, and similar to the above regarding architects, you can look up their registration details on CIDB website.
If your main con is not CIDB registered, turn around and never look back.

QUOTE(shuiyu38 @ Apr 28 2017, 10:27 PM)
mpsj approves the plan, while ccc issued by architect?
*
This is a somewhat controversial issue that is a topic of constant discussion within the profession.
The main purpose of establishing the CCC system is towards a self-regulatory and self-certification system.
Under the CCC procedure, basically all liability are to be borne by the consultants (architects, civil & structural engineers, mechanical & electrical engineers, etc. - those who endorse the Borang G1-G21)
yet for some reason the local authority still needs to approve the plan.

This post has been edited by 2387581: May 12 2017, 11:27 AM
quikstep
post May 12 2017, 01:26 PM

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2387581 what happens to MPSJ approved plan but built by non-cidb contractors?
shadow_walker
post May 12 2017, 03:13 PM

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QUOTE(2387581 @ May 12 2017, 11:18 AM)
I am working in the profession, and I feel compelled to reply to this, although this might be a little late for some, but still.
In addition to the info aeiou228 has shared, I would like to add.
Many people like to think the existence of architects and other professions within the building construction industry are to get money out of your pocket.
What they don't understand is that these laws pertaining to the built environment, are meant more to protect interest of the public by regulating what can be done and what cannot be done.
What they can't see is the value behind the price tag. An architect's certification is basically, in layman terms, a lifetime guarantee of health and safety to the building you are occupying, at least that is true in Malaysia.
It is sometime puzzling to us within the profession why someone can spend thousands to get a designer bag, yet wouldn't want to remunerate the professional who is responsible for the health and safety of your house. (Let's not even talk about the infamous bad debt in the construction industry)
Typically, for a renovation done without applying for permit, in any case when you need to present your CCC, and you can't, then that is the beginning of another long process.
For information and education purposes, see below for the CCC process.
These are all stipulated in the Street, Drainage and Building Act 1974 (Act 133) and Uniform Building By-Laws 1984

See the Lembaga Arkitek Malaysia's Circular No. 1/2008 on CCC which outlines the process of delivering building construction permit up to issuance of CCC
http://www.lam.gov.my/index.php/circulars/...s.html?start=10

There are 21 Forms (Borang G1-G21) to be completed for any new projects.

For renovation projects however, only the involved parts needs to be filled in, likely but not limited to Form G4-G7 and G12, depending on the scope of your projects. Other than that, the PSP will certify that the particular forms are not related, but still need to submit.
These forms are designed to suit any scale of projects, from kitchen renovation to 100 storey mega structures, the forms are the same.
It is a process involving professional consultant's certification, invitation and arrangement of the relevant technical departments (internal for example Jabatan Kawalan Bangunan, Jabatan Kejuruteraan, Jabatan Pengairan dan Saliran, etc.; external for example Bomba, TNB, IWK, Syabas, etc.) to do inspection.
For most homeowners who cannot comprehend why you think the cost of engaging an architect to produce the CCC is high, there are so many background works that you couldn't even imagine how complicated and sometimes difficult to deal with, the long hours involved, as well as the long time frame to make things happen, this is it.
This is a misconception regarding "an authority approved architect" or "panel architect".
There is no laws permitting this, as any architect registered with Lembaga Arkitek Malaysia (LAM) is qualified to submit plans to any local authority within Peninsular Malaysia.
If you need to find any architect, you can refer to the LAM website, they have a database of registered architect with contact details.
A good tip to any person approaching an architect, it is good to request the architect to present their LAM registration certificate, and get their LAM registration number.
You can then look up from the website, or even call LAM to check up on a certain architect to make sure they are registered.
Link to LAM database: http://portal.lam.gov.my/website_member_list.php?gtype=pa
This is because architecture as a profession is highly regulated in Malaysia, if any architect are doing any sketchy thing, you can complain/report to LAM and there will be actions taken.
More details you can refer to Architect's Act 1967 (Act 117) at http://www.lam.gov.my/index.php/act-rules.html
According to the law, any type of building works needs to obtain CCC. For projects involving structural (re)construction, the owner will need to engage a structural engineer to do their relevant plan submission to the local authority to get approval. But for any project, there is only 1 CCC. The approvals/permits obtained by engineers will form as part of the CCC.
For example, concerning the structural parts of the project only, the main contractor and the structural engineer will need to sign Borang G4. See example below
Attached Image
As you can see, this form is only valid if your contractor is registered with CIDB. Please make sure your contractor is registered with CIDB before engaging them to do your building works.
Ask them to produce to you a copy of their CIDB registration certificate, and similar to the above regarding architects, you can look up their registration details on CIDB website.
If your main con is not CIDB registered, turn around and never look back.
This is a somewhat controversial issue that is a topic of constant discussion within the profession.
The main purpose of establishing the CCC system is towards a self-regulatory and self-certification system.
Under the CCC procedure, basically all liability are to be borne by the consultants (architects, civil & structural engineers, mechanical & electrical engineers, etc. - those who endorse the Borang G1-G21)
yet for some reason the local authority still needs to approve the plan.
*
very good explanation bro thumbup.gif thumbup.gif
2387581
post May 12 2017, 05:06 PM

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QUOTE(quikstep @ May 12 2017, 01:26 PM)
2387581 what happens to MPSJ approved plan but built by non-cidb contractors?
*
Do you mean
1. local authority 'pre-approved plan' which does not involve architect to do submission, or
2. a set of plan submitted by an architect which subsequently obtained approval from local authority ?

No. 1, sorry to tell you I do not know the process as it does not involve architects. For example you have a terrace house with a backyard. You want to extend to build up to the boundary of the backyard. In these cases you can go directly to the local authority and choose the 'pre-approved' plan and pay a small amount of fee to the local authority to get the permit. Whether or not these cases require CCC I do not know. This is because if there is no architect involved, no architect to issue to CCC. You may check with your local authority for clarification.

No. 2, This is a problem with the people's mindset whereby the people tends to do things the 'easy-way' they think, by cutting corners and ignoring legal responsibilities. Local authority only accept completed Borang G1-G21 signed by contractors/tradesman registered with regulatory bodies respectively. In order to facilitate the paper works, some people may choose to engage a CIDB-registered contractor, and get them to check your building against the approved plan. If they are satisfied with everything (including the quality, material, craftsmanship, etc.) then they may endorse the Form G12 alongside with the architect's signature. When they endorse, it means they undertake that particular job as their own instead of the original, non-CIDB registered contractor. It means down the road if it involves a lawsuit, they are responsible for any wrongdoings of the construction works. Disclaimer: I do not endorse this, as this is not the right way to do things. You may refer to Lembaga Pembangunan Industri Pembinaan Malaysia Act 1994 (Act 520) for more info.

To understand each Borang G1-G21 you can download the forms at Lemabaga Arkitek Malaysia website http://www.lam.gov.my/index.php/ccc/forms-g1-g21.html
Inside you can see who is responsible for each form, and it stats the works involved.

What I am trying to do here is to raise awareness to the readers of these issues. I see many cases here saying the contractor vanished after they receive money and they cannot get someone to hold account. In this age, people can fabricate and sugarcoat their portfolio and talk empty to get you to pay them before commencing any works. The CIDB regulations is meant to protect the public against those irresponsible and shady contractors. One thing worth noting is that CIDB grades the contractor according to their capacity to undertake projects of certain budget. Details can be found on CIDB website and their class is reflected in their registration number.

This post has been edited by 2387581: May 12 2017, 05:14 PM
Nitrous
post May 12 2017, 05:22 PM

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Can someone advise how a CCC looks like? Is it also called Borang F (Perakuan Siap dan Pematuhan), and is blue in colour?
I have the Borang F already, wondered if this means my CCC is complete?
Thanks a lot

This post has been edited by Nitrous: May 12 2017, 05:25 PM
2387581
post May 12 2017, 08:03 PM

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QUOTE(Nitrous @ May 12 2017, 05:22 PM)
Can someone advise how a CCC looks like? Is it also called Borang F (Perakuan Siap dan Pematuhan), and is blue in colour?
I have the Borang F already, wondered if this means my CCC is complete?
Thanks a lot
*
Yes, the owner's copy is blue in colour.
See link for image sourced online.
Borang F = CCC = certificate of completion and compliance = sijil perakuan siap dan pematuhan
Every set of CCC has 4 copies with a serial number and lettered according to the state/territory.
Salinan asal - Owner's - Blue
Salinan orang utama yang mengemukakan - Principal submitting person's copy (architect/engineer) - Yellow
Salinan pihak berkuasa tempatan - Local authority's copy - Green
Salinan Lembaga Arkitek Malaysia - LAM's copy - Biege

Your CCC should be complete upon the architect submit to local authority. Under OSC 3.0 process, the architect will submit the Borang F (local authority + LAM) to local authority. Upon receive, the local authority shall forward LAM's copy to LAM within 14 days of the date printed on Borang F. At the same time, the architect is required to upload a scanned copy of the CCC to LAM website.
Lembaga Arkitek Malaysia will then publish on its website the list of CCC.
You can search according to the serial number or other credentials to ensure they are recorded. Link here.
But sometimes they could be really, really slow in updating the database.

Note that the CCC although is only one sheet of A4 paper, the documents that come with it are usually bound together as a booklet, which contains all checklist, Borang G1-G21 and relevant approval letters, clearance letters after inspection is done by all technical agencies, sometimes a photographic report documenting the completed project, etc etc. The most important thing is still your Blue coloured A4-sized Borang F though.
quikstep
post May 12 2017, 11:51 PM

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2387581 my cousin engaged an mpsj staff for recommended architect. the mpsj officer facilitated his whole 9 yards until mpsj approval to start extending his wet kitchen. unfortunately, only after handing him the approval she told him that he must appoint a cidb contractor. by this time, 20% of the estimated wet kitchen extension cost was already given to the non-cidb contractor. he pretty much have no choice but to go with that guy!

any advice?
halfDi
post May 13 2017, 12:20 PM

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Hi, i am doing plan preparation, submission untill get plan & permit approval. After done all this, i will submit ccc application. Wassap me hafdi 016-3553020. Tq

#plan approval and ccc (certificate of completion & compliance) need same architect/building draughtmen. U cannot use architect 'A' to sign building plan and using the architect 'B'( maybe more chepeast) to acknowledge CCC@ addtional cf (renovation)
halfDi
post May 13 2017, 12:24 PM

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Some owner will get ccc or borang f from architect but the final clearance is a letter from Mpsj that mention inspection have already done and all fullfill by architect.
aeiou228
post May 13 2017, 01:47 PM

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QUOTE(halfDi @ May 13 2017, 12:24 PM)
Some owner will get ccc or borang f from architect  but the final clearance is a letter from Mpsj that mention inspection have already done and all fullfill by architect.
*
Can you share with us the sample of final clearance letter from MPSJ?
2387581
post May 13 2017, 04:40 PM

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QUOTE(halfDi @ May 13 2017, 12:24 PM)
Some owner will get ccc or borang f from architect  but the final clearance is a letter from Mpsj that mention inspection have already done and all fullfill by architect.
*
Ask your architect, he/she would know.
With OSC 3.0 process, it goes like the following
1. Consultants (architect/engineers) to pre-consult with relevant technical departments for info/requirements pertaining to your project.
2. Submission of plans for approvals
3. Notice of commencement of works
4. Interim inspection by technical departments (SYABAS, TNB, DOSH, IWK, JKR, Bomba, Local authority Building Dept., Engr. Dept., etc)
5. Final inspection stage I & II by technical departments
6. Deposit CCC

For more information you may refer to the OSC 3.0 Manual Pemohon which can be found here.
It clearly outlines the process and departments involved.

There is a reason why it is called "Deposit CCC" instead of application (in a sense application 'for approval') because it is the Principal Submitting Person (architect/engineer depending on the project) who certify and sign on the Borang F. Further more, as per the above process, inspections are done before the architect will issue the Borang F. Of course there is a list of documents required to be deposited together with the Borang F, and the Jabatan Bangunan + OSC will check to ensure all documents are in place before OSC will even accept it. These documents always includes the clearance letter obtained from all relevant departments after they have done inspection and satisfied to their requirement. Upon the local authority OSC (MPSJ for example) accepted it, they are responsible to distribute the Borang F to Jabatan Bangunan and LAM respectively. Should they have any further comments (which is unlikely - because comments would have been arises during the multiple stages of inspection before depositing CCC) they will inform your architect.
2387581
post May 13 2017, 04:59 PM

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QUOTE(halfDi @ May 13 2017, 12:20 PM)
Hi, i am doing plan preparation, submission untill get plan & permit approval. After done all this, i will submit ccc application. Wassap me hafdi 016-3553020. Tq

#plan approval and ccc (certificate of completion & compliance) need same architect/building draughtmen. U cannot use architect 'A' to sign building plan and using the architect 'B'( maybe more chepeast) to acknowledge CCC@ addtional cf (renovation)
*
No, it is possible to do so.
Sometimes client-consultant relationship turns sour, sometimes the architect might be incapacitated to perform his duty, lots of possibilities. As long as the client has fully settled the account with (paid) architect 'A', and architect 'A' has subsequently issued a release letter to the client and also informed the local authority.
The client may then engage another architect 'B' to carry on with the project, with prior approval from the local authority.

For small projects like small home renovation, in my personal opinion, is simply not worth to do this. You could be penny wise pound foolish. It will most likely consume your time and energy and probably more money to do so, and in the process drag the project completion time late.

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